- Aug 20, 2005
- San Antonio, TX
Luigi Strat and Setup Discoveries: Also a strat and Setup Discussion Thread!
Credit for the text and background goes to mufftheboffin from deviantart.
Spritist credit is unknown so Anonymous?
So today I was messing around with Luigi and I had the idea to create this thread! Well I have seen very few threads here that can help Luigi achieve a better metagame but as we know Luigi’s metagame hasn’t been developed as much as a lot of other characters *cough* Snake *cough* ( I have nothing against Snake though don’t get me wrong ) This thread will be used to place Luigi Strat’s/Setups/follow ups/techs.
I would like to start of this thread by saying that even though I’ll be placing my discoveries or known strats from Luigi in this post you can also contribute to the thread and I will quote your strat/setup if you have tested it on opponents and it has worked! I want this thread to be a contribution by the whole Luigi community not just one person and if any other character mainer has discovered any nice tech/strat/setup/follow up, with Luigi you can also post it here, no pressure.
I will start with posting the first interesting tactic I’ve found with Luigi today.
1) Jab Cancelling and it’s possibilities:
First of all, I think we all know what jab cancelling is right? I’m not talking about the jab>jab>grab that many people do with other chars. The jab Cancelling I’m talking about is the jab>crouch>jab>crouch> repeat. This makes the jab come out way faster than just doing jab wait for a sec then jab again were opponents can evade, dodge, short hop etc. This can be done quite quickly and the crouch as you can see by the setup cancels the other jab that might come out of the AAA combo and restart with the initial jab. Now it sounds like a relatively slow process but I first came across it on InphiEphe’s youtube channel were he describes the jab cancelling advantages for Lucario and I was amazed. So by seeing that I thought why not try that with Luigi and see what I can come up with? And so I did and I discovered some interesting setups. You can also do jab>jab>crouch>jab>jab>crouch etc. (no hip) NOTE: It can be power shielded at times but it is still and amazing tech and sets up for some amazing things.
For those who are still doubting what the Jab cancel is you can see InphiEphe’s vid “this n that” were he uses it with Lucario:
You can also see it in action were Virtual Void does it pretty much @ 0:12-0:15 in this match:
Ok on to the setups :D:
- First as you know you can do jab>crouch>jab>crouch> repeat etc. (from now on I will refer to this process as jab cancel and avoid typing all that stuff above.) The Jab Jab cancel is basically AA>crouch so when you see that I say Jab Jab cancel I mean AA>crouch.
- You can also:
a) Jab cancel into a AAA combo
b) Jab cancel into a Ftilt
c) Jab cancel into a Dtilt (note I will go in depth with this a bit later)
d) Jab cancel into a Dsmash.
e) Jab Jab cancel into AAA
f) Jab Jab cancel inot a Ftilt
g) Jab Jab cancel into a Dtilt
h) Jab Jab cancel into a Dsmash
And many others, (I haven’t tested it with all the moves Luigi has but they have awesome potential.)
- Ok now we all love upB and now this is where the jab cancel into Dtilt or Jab Jab cancel into Dtilt comes in. Now remember for this to work you have to make sure your Dtilt trips and as soon as that happens your upB is a surefire hit. So then you would have an amazing setup Jab cancel into a Dtilt>trip>upB or Jab Jab cancel into a Dtilt>trip>upB.
2) Dash Attack Cancel (also known as Snake Dashing, Mortar Slide etc.):
I haven’t seen many people do this tech, actually I’ve only seen it done on Virtual Void’s videos. Luigi gains an amazing slide distance with this, of course not the same as Link or Snake but it is still better than just dashing>up smashing which stops your momentum. It is an amazing way to space and also an amazing approach, to mix up your game from the usual aerials, fireball, or tornado approach.
-For those who don’t know how to perform a Dash attack Cancel simply start a dash>c-stick down> then immediately press up on the control stick + Z button at the same time.
Well these are my discoveries up to now and I will update it once I keep on finding new tactics/setups etc. with Luigi. I will also update it with all the information you could also have to add! So come on let’s take Luigi’s metagame to the next level.
3) Tornado Setups:
4. Semi F-tilt Lock:hippiedude92 said:Luigi's downb called Luigi Cyclone, or better known as his tornado. -Taken from "Green thunder Guide"-
"(There are a total of 5 hits 2%, 2%, 2%, 2%, 4% consecutively if all hits are connected 12%)
Amazing way to get close to your opponents and even better as a recovery move. It has the ability to deflect at an angle, cancel, or stun projectiles that are thrown at you. As a recovery simply do a double jump when off stage then rapidly press DB and keep pressing the B button consecutively to rise up further, in other words this move is greatly affected by momentum."
*Edit* Okay, tornado has some potential combo setup. There's couple of ways in coming in and successfully landing this combo setup attack.Tornado come's out the fastest when it's on ground, or coming from air to ground.
1) Shorthop Fireball, followup tornado
2) Shorthop Dair, followup tornado
3) Shorthop Nair, followup tornado
4) Shorthop Fair, followup tornado
5) Shorthop U-air, followup tornado
6) Shorthop,Fastfall, then followup tornado
7) Jab Jab crouch, followup tornado.
These are the basic ones so far. There's probably more combinations. Here's a quick example of a player using a Dair to tornado. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEZPTOgsc-o
SETUP: So after testing this thing out I finally found a set-up for the semi-lock. Of course, this is really situational as always but if your opponent does not tech quickly this is a great way to set them up for the semi-lock. Your opponent has to be approximately at 55-60% or over and you must make sure that your Dair spiked.Locuan said:Semi F-tilt Lock
An in depth look
So I've been investigating one of SamuraiPanda's discoveries. If you remember this part of his thread "3 Discoveries by SamuraiPanda":
SamuraiPanda said:I played around with Luigi last night and discovered a few new things with him that surprised me. First was something that I'm sure is common knowledge to Luigi players, but I decided to include it anyways: Luigi's downwards Ftilt has strange properties, almost like Zelda's Dtilt. After some experimentation, I think it can work as a "jab" lock (like the laser lock but where you jab, walk forward, jab, etc.) but I apparently don't have the dexterity to pull it off consistently.
NOTE: The f-tilt has to be angled downwards.
When I started investigating the matter, it's more of a Semi Lock than a full "Jab" lock.
-Why a Semi F-tilt Lock and not an F-tilt Lock?
This is because for a full lock to work you would have to walk>F-tilt>rinse a repeat. The problem is that the speed at which the F-tilt comes out is to slow. Thus, the opponent would be able to escape the lock fairly easily.
-Then if an F-tilt Lock can be escaped how does the Semi F-tilt work?
Well the Semi F-tilt's work because as soon as the opponent is on the ground (in the manner that locks work) you can hit them with the down angled f-tilt about 4-5 times depending on the size of your opponent.
I did three tests, one with DK in which I could hit him five times without any problems.
One with Mario were depending on the distance when I started the Semi Lock I could get 4-5 hits.
I did another test with Kirby were I could get 4 hits and occasionally 5.
-So how do I perform it?
Simple as soon as the opponent falls to the ground, without teching, get close to them and then hit them with the down-angled F-tilt. Hit them about 5 times, (that's probably the most amount of hits you can do against an opponent depending on the spacing you used on your opponent.)
-It's kinda useless I mean why would I use it? It doesn't allow me to Lock through the whole stage so why would I want to know this?
Well that is kind of true. You won't be able to lock across the whole stage like other characters can, (at least with the F-tilt, I will be trying other moves to see if I can perform a full lock.) But remember that when you hit with an F-tilt it is a guaranteed 10% of damage. So if you are able to get them in a Semi-Lock and connect four or five successful hits it's a guaranteed 40-50%
-I kinda don't mind cause I can get that percentage with aerials.
Well that is true but only when the opponent is at low percents. If you catch an opponent that falls and does not tech you can hit them with the Semi-Lock at any percentages and it will still guarantee your 40-50%.
It also allows for setups as you can stop the lock in between the five hits and perform a D-tilt for example (I have to research the setups a bit more I will post them here and in my Setup Discussion thread later.)
Well this is what my latest testing has discovered and I hope you enjoy this as much as I do lol. And I will be looking to implement this into my game as fast as I can.
Any questions or doubt's that you might have on the semi-lock feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer you.
Dair (spike)> Semi-Lock.
5. Missile Cancel Hug (MCH):
I discovered a way to edgehog your opponent when they are recovering without having to run over to the edge and hug it in the old fashioned way. The physics behind this is that if you do your side-b and Luigi's head is off the stage but his body isn't; when he touches the floor from his green missile he will fall off-stage. Therefore, this will cancel Luigi's Side-b ending lag and if you hold toward the stage you will instantly grab it.
Working on the video!
7. U-tilt Setups:
So I did some testing on this, and I found out that at 0% you can Utilt>grab. It is really situational but it can prove great for follow up combos.
(I need more U-tilt setups )
8. Fireball Lock:
9. Fire Jump Punch (Up+b) Kill chart by Hippiedude92 and Razz113:Locuan said:Fireball lock (It does work!)
a further look into it's properties
First of all let me apologize to everyone who has posted before on the subject and I have said that the speed of the fireball is to slow to lock. This is somewhat true if the opponent is far away but if your opponent is close or at a mid-distance to you it does work! Also, let me point out that I do not take credit for discovering the Fireball lock etc. I just did some testing to see if it was actually real.
It works as a regular lock would work or actually better, like Falco's laser lock would.
My testing was as follows:
Your opponent has to be in mid percentages 50% approximately to be able to successfully lock him. I might be wrong in this so I need more testers! You can help out go into training mode and see what happens.
Some characters you can't completely lock but others you can.
Also, please not that the lock stops working when the opponent gets at a larger distance.
I need to test this out more but I would like the community to know this. I apologize again to anyone who had posted that it could be a potential tech but I said that it would not work.
This was mostly because since I couldn't get it to work at low percentages I thought it was impossible.
So I hope you find uses for the fireball lock! And any questions you may have I will try to answer as accurately as I can.
First I would like to thank LilWeegi for all the testing! Read the next quote!
LilWeegi said:im about to confirm a sure way to do it in training some time soon but i usually hit them just as the smack the ground from a fall it can be timed fairly easily also id like to add i got 8 on yoshi just now untill he fell off
EDIT i just got 11 on yoshi, i use down throw shield roll away fireball away should be mid distance is very effective nice 66% off fireballs alone**that was my original thought it works for a good 6-15 shots but to get around 20 you grab down throw dash next to them when they hit the ground on there way up on the bounce fire ball your thumb off, very effective
For the below soon to be all characters, tests were done shortly and were my highest # i achieved playing of FD they may change in levels with slopes or walls to be much higher
Last edit! yay done all characters with a decent number, you can use this in the original thread post just credit LilWeegi :-) hope i finally contributed something to the luigi community, maybe a sticky if we get this thread on use in battle and set ups to it
20 vs Mario
8 vs Luigi
6 vs peach
16 vs bowser
11 vs donkey kong
18 vs diddy kong
12 vs yoshi
20 vs wario
15 vs link
6 vs zelda/shiek
22 vs ganon
10 vs toon link
16 vs samus
10 vs pit
14 vs 2 ice climbers/ 17 vs 1 ice climber
18 vs rob
15 vs Kirby
13 vs meta knight
17 vs DDD
12 vs olimar
17 vs Captain Falcon
26 vs wolf
20 vs falco
16 vs fox
16 vs pikachu
13 vs squirtle
17 vs ivysaur
15 vs charizard
20 vs lucario
22 vs jigglypuff
10 vs lucas
12 vs ness
8 vs Ike
10 vs marth
18 vs game n watch
17 vs snake
14 vs sonic
pre testing notes etc
vs the mother boys, they are very hard to get in it for what ever reason i don't recomend trying it on them due to this fact and the fact that they have a shield to absorb your fireballs and lower their %. Against ike it can be very effective but you will either get a 1-4 ish or the full 12, he is also hard to lock. Against both peach and Zelda/Shiek don't try it, it took me several times to even get 6 very low % chance of scoring this in a match
questions comments thoughts are appreciated, hope this helps a little?
and just now testing, i found in different levels the numbers can grow expodentially, i just tried out kirbys dream land melee stage and got 60 on bowser and he started bouncing so high a FB missed and hit a bomb and he died at 415%
9. Green Missile (Luigi Torpedo) "Zap Jump": I just want to clarify this out. Basically this is not a "zap jump" like Lucas's. What Luigi actually does is apply the same physics from jumping and quickly tornado mashing but in this case with the missile. What you have to do is just jump and then quickly hit side-b and hold it until the peak of the jump.hippiedude92 said:For all you firepunching Luigi's out there. Razz113 and I have made a chart regarding on how much it takes to kill a certain character with Luigi's upb, his firepunch at a certain %.
Note: This was all done in training mode. All the kills were a fresh firepunch. Move decay wasn't applied nor is it applied in training mode. Also, these were all taken in the center of Final Destination. So differing stages with low or high ceilings may differ the results. Same goes with Move Decay. Also this was done without DI. If it's with DI, just apply around 10%-15% or so to each character's kill %.
Mario - 50%
Luigi Up - 50%
Peach - 45%
Bowser - 57%
DK - 61%
Diddy - 49%
Yoshi - 54%
Wario - 54%
Link - 56%
Zelda - 44%
Shiek - 44%
Ganondorf - 57%
Toon Link - 48%
Samus - 52%
Zero Suit - 44%
Pit Up - 50%
Ice Climbers - 46%
Kirby - 42%
Meta Knight - 43%
DeDeDe - 64%
Olimar - 45%
Fox - 42%
Wolf - 55%
Captain Falcon - 58%
Squirtle - 52%
Ivysaur - 40%
Charizard - 55%
Lucario - 51%
Jigglypuff - 37%
Marth - 49%
Ike - 57%
Ness - 49%
Lucas - 48%
Game and Watch - 41%
Snake - 62%
Sonic - 50%
Thanks to Razz113 for helping me out and the idea of this thread ^o^!
Here's a table of the Aerial Fire punch.
Mario - 84%
Luigi - 84%
Peach - 77%
Bowser - 94%
Donkey Kong - 98%
Diddy Kong - 82%
Yoshi - 89%
Wario - 90%
Link - 91%
Zelda - 76%
Shiek - 75%
Ganondorf - 94%
T. Link - 81%
Samus - 87%
Zamus - 76%
Pit - 84%
ICs - 79%
ROB - 88%
Kirby - 74%
Meta Knight - 74%
DeDeDe - 103%
Olimar - 77%
Fox - 74%
Falco - 79%
Wolf - 90%
Falcon - 95%
Pikachu - 76%
Squirtle - 85%
Ivysaur - 71%
Charizard - 91%
Lucario - 85%
Jigglypuff - 66%
Marth - 82%
Ike - 93%
Ness - 83%
Lucas - 82%
Mr. G+W - 71%
Snake - 97%
Sonic - 84%
Luigi now has TWO Under 100% Kills on everyone except DeDeDe, and a bit more of half the cast can be killed under 90%.
Also, I want to note that Training Mode likes to reduce the knockback by little bits, so a fresh Fire Punch will probably kill 1-2% earlier in a real match. This applies both to Aerial and Grounded, but Aerial moreso is more affected by this because of the juiced down power. It's also easier to DI out the Aerial Fire Punch, so be wary.
All things still apply, no move decay, all done on training mode, all were done in Final Destination, no DI was performed.
If you don't know what a aerial fire punch is. It's the same as a firepunch but done in the air, with no "ping" sound and it's power is juiced down meaning it takes around 80% to kill somebody.
Here's a perfect example in the near of the end of the vid of aerial firepunch
All credits go to SparkEd for doing the aerial fire punch table. =D
After much testing I came to the conclusion that inputting the jump and side-b commands don't give you anymore reach than if jumping and then quickly pressing and holding side-b.
FUN FACT!: If done correctly you can go under final destination with this!