Exceladon City
Smash Hero
So, in a feeble attempt to breathe life into this thread and try to get this character rolling again, I've decided to start a stage discussion thread.
LUIGI STAGE DISCUSSION THREAD
Okay, so as expected we should tackle the neutral stages:
////:yoshisb:/
s1:/
A vote should be held to decide on which stage to discuss.
I'd vote to start on Smashville since it's probably the most familiar and it would more than likely get picked for discussion pretty quickly and moved out of the way for less played stages.
[COLLAPSE="Smashville"]
-General Stage Utilities-
"Reasonably small for against campers, reasonably big for... whatever luigi uses big stages for. Recovering low is less risky here because it's harder to get stage spiked, and the platform being over the edge might **** them up." - YoshQ
"Well, it's common knowledge to hit the balloon to refresh your moveset. It's pretty detrimental to Luigi as he doesn't have any reliable ways to do that outside of jabs." - Dib
-Moving Platform Utilities-
"Endless platform cancel mindgames. Use luigi's platform pressure combined platform cancel grabs to make them very uncomfortable. Get them randomly stuck on the platform during your combo for fun air pressure times." - YoshQ
"The platform can be used to get rid of RCO lag from using Up b when it comes by Luigi."
"The platform is closer to the ceiling so Luigi can get early ko's." - LuigiSama
"The platform is extremely useful for offstage pressuring for any character and Luigi isn't an exception to that rule." - Dib
-Luigi Benefits-
"Luigi's Fireball game imo is better here than anywhere else. Not too long where it becomes useless, not too short where you're cramped up next to the opponent when his fireballs have terrible end lag." - Norcal Deez
[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Battlefield"]
-Platform Usage-
"Plenty of platforms for Luigi to apply platform pressure on his opponent.
Edge slip tactics that can be used on the characters in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyFtJDxsqMs " - LuigiSama
"The 3 platforms provide damn near immaculate cover for Luigi to gain decent stage control and pressure with fireballs. As well as they give him the ability to pressure with Utilts, Usmash and all of his aerials." - Dib
"The platforms help a little for mixing up recoveries. SH Fair and SH Bair hit through the lower platforms, so you can safely pressure most characters that don't have a DP unlike MK and Marth. The controlling the center of the stage is what you should aim for against most characters that can't camp Luigi." - Dib
"Luigi has a frame trap up-b on alot of the characters when they edge slip from the platforms.
Just do the normal aerial shield pressure underneath them until they slip off and *insert up-b sound here* free stock. Similar to the fireball lock, which would be a better thing to do if the opponent isn't in kill % yet. Characters I found hard to do this to(due to their floatiness and ability to DI as they free-fall) are:
-Wario
-Pit
-Marth*
~List is incomplete~
Marth suffers from less free fall lag so it's only frame perfect if you can do it to him :\
The other 2 have great mobility but it is STILL POSSIBLE to do it. Just read the DI." - Norcal Deez[/collapse]
[collapse=Castle Siege]
1st Transformation
"-low celing early kills for luigi
- both platforms allow for Platform pressure and good movement for Luigi.
- slanted stage floor allows for Luigi to play defensive with fireballs on the left side of the stage. The slant changes the direction of the fireballs to a 65 degree angle towards the opponent." - LuigiSama
"A little awkward since it's REALLY small. Fireball camp has to be precise since if PS'd, it spells damage taken. I prefer to do the so called obsolete Aerial zoning so they don't come near me and wait for either the shift phase(in-between room or whatever you wanna call it) or the inner castle phase.
Killing is easier here since it's the smallest of the 4. Be wary of the edges since it is possible to get gimped a.k.a. Blacked, as we call it on norcal, during recovery." - Norcal Deez
"I am not too fond of Castle Siege to be honest. I feel like that your starting position really affects how the match is going to go. Luigi is really strong at the lower-left side of the stage but in a bad way on the higher-right side. He controls so much more space on the left side. The right side, he forced to approach on because his fireballs aren't altered in trajectory and he doesn't benefit at all on the higher end of anything.
You can make aerials a little safer by fastfalling them on the slope as it causes you to slide away." - Dib
Shift Phase(1 & 2)
"If Chaingrab(D3) or at low % vs Falco, this is pretty much the stay-away-and-run-like-a-***** part of the match, as one grab can be a free stock for them. Other than that killing is a bit tougher horizontally, but c'mon... it's Luigi - Kills @ 50% and up lol. I digress... Nothing too special here but just be aware of what the next phase is, because you could put yourself in a REALLY bad position if you stray on the outer parts prior to Phase 1 or Phase 4." - Norcal Deez
2nd Transformation
"- blast zones at the left and right allow for early bthrow kills
- the platforms make it easier to get away from chaingrabbing characters
-Statue provides extend hitboxes" - LuigiSama
"Using the sculptures to extend hitboxes is the best <3. I was talking to Sean to see if I could get better info on how hitting stuff like the sculptures affects moves and I didn't get too much other than that Disjointed moves will get bigger hitboxes and last for a longer time, i.e. Lucas' Up-smash. Whereas MK's D-Smash just stays out a tad longer. So with that, I interpreted with a little theorycrafting that Our F-Smash & D-Smash will stay out a bit longer, but our Up-smash will get a considerable boost in size for the hitboxes. Up-B is the same as F/D-Smashes. Down-B goes extra squirrely on the statues too. Again just theorycrafting :\.
Anyways, back to the stage layout. A lot of room to camp. Kill % should be similar to that of SV. You can Down-B from the ground to the awning things on the side...just a random tidbit." - Norcal Deez.
"This is notorious for being the "Run the **** away if you're in the lead or are a chaingrab-able character fighting D3" stage. If I had to pick my favorite of the Castle Siege formations, it would be this one. The statues provide excellent cover from characters with better projectiles and even though it's a double-edged sword, you can refresh your moves on the statues. They also extend hitboxes and Usmash is definitely useful here." - Dib
3rd Transformation
"-stage tilts and can allow for early kills for luigi
- against some projectiles like Falco's laser Luigi can crouch behind the elevated portion of the stage and not get hurt." - LuigiSama
"That little lip on the center-left of the rock can help manipulate fireball game, but don't over-centralize your positioning there. It can help with getting out of CG's. The stage tilts just like Lylat Cruise, so keep in mind on how to recover here. I've been blacked there a couple times and it ain't fun. Now that I think about it, this place is, size-wise, close to BF, maybe smaller. That should give you guys a ballpark on kill %." - Norcal Deez
"The final part of this level is not particularly beneficial for Luigi. It's essentially FD and Lylat combined. It's tilting makes it harder to recover and with it being long and mostly flat it doesn't help for approaching or dealing with camping.
It's not a solid CP imo." - Dib
[/COLLAPSE]
[collapse=Lylat Cruise]
"-Lylat tilts up and down ruining any kind of spacing and moves
-There are platforms so Luigi use the platforms in any way he wants.
-Depending on the way the ship is tilted Luigi can use the tilt to manipulate the direction of his fireball. Also if luigi is on the left side of the ship while it is tilted like this --> \ it makes it hard for him to grab the edge with up b. Lastly it becomes difficult to snap edge with Luigi missile." - LuigiSama
"Going off of what BC said, Fireball camp game CAN get tricky a bit. Using the slants and the ship tilting movement can help with some camping. You can Platform Cancel here depending on the stage position. If it's leaning to the left: You can PC on the Middle and Left Platforms, but not the right one. If leaning to the right: You can PC the Middle and Right Platforms, but not the left one. If it is neutral: You can do it to all of them.
Killing vertically is a bit tougher, since this stage has one of the higher ceilings in the map selections. Try for more stage gimps if you can, or do it the ol' fashioned way and just beat em up till they're at Kill %.
I honestly don't like this stage for Luigi, despite the Ledge-Slip Up-B works here, it's just too much going on for the stage itself to make it a solid pick to go here. If you're one of those Sqweegees that like oddball stages like this, by all means go for it, but Luigi does better on the 3 neutrals imo.
Idk who you'd want to take here besides maybe a Marth or anyone's recovery that is similar to that(CF & Mario), but if you are taken here... that's a whole other story." - Norcal Deez
"I really like this stage.
-The platforms help for steady stage coverage whether it be in the air or on the ground.
-The tilting allows for platform canceling, which can be used to pressure your opponents.
-The low height of the side platforms makes Usmash useful for shield pressuring and poking from below.
-The slants makes it easier to avoid lasers and other projectiles.
-Lower ceiling for easier kills
-The tilting angles fireballs for more vertical zoning.
It's not a terrible stage at all for Luigi. Yes, the tilting can be a bit of an issue but all in all, it's pretty good for Luigi." - Dib [/collapse]
LUIGI STAGE DISCUSSION THREAD
Okay, so as expected we should tackle the neutral stages:
////:yoshisb:/s1:/A vote should be held to decide on which stage to discuss.
I'd vote to start on Smashville since it's probably the most familiar and it would more than likely get picked for discussion pretty quickly and moved out of the way for less played stages.
[COLLAPSE="Smashville"]
-General Stage Utilities-
"Reasonably small for against campers, reasonably big for... whatever luigi uses big stages for. Recovering low is less risky here because it's harder to get stage spiked, and the platform being over the edge might **** them up." - YoshQ
"Well, it's common knowledge to hit the balloon to refresh your moveset. It's pretty detrimental to Luigi as he doesn't have any reliable ways to do that outside of jabs." - Dib
-Moving Platform Utilities-
"Endless platform cancel mindgames. Use luigi's platform pressure combined platform cancel grabs to make them very uncomfortable. Get them randomly stuck on the platform during your combo for fun air pressure times." - YoshQ
"The platform can be used to get rid of RCO lag from using Up b when it comes by Luigi."
"The platform is closer to the ceiling so Luigi can get early ko's." - LuigiSama
"The platform is extremely useful for offstage pressuring for any character and Luigi isn't an exception to that rule." - Dib
-Luigi Benefits-
"Luigi's Fireball game imo is better here than anywhere else. Not too long where it becomes useless, not too short where you're cramped up next to the opponent when his fireballs have terrible end lag." - Norcal Deez
[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Battlefield"]
-Platform Usage-
"Plenty of platforms for Luigi to apply platform pressure on his opponent.
Edge slip tactics that can be used on the characters in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyFtJDxsqMs " - LuigiSama
"The 3 platforms provide damn near immaculate cover for Luigi to gain decent stage control and pressure with fireballs. As well as they give him the ability to pressure with Utilts, Usmash and all of his aerials." - Dib
"The platforms help a little for mixing up recoveries. SH Fair and SH Bair hit through the lower platforms, so you can safely pressure most characters that don't have a DP unlike MK and Marth. The controlling the center of the stage is what you should aim for against most characters that can't camp Luigi." - Dib
"Luigi has a frame trap up-b on alot of the characters when they edge slip from the platforms.
Just do the normal aerial shield pressure underneath them until they slip off and *insert up-b sound here* free stock. Similar to the fireball lock, which would be a better thing to do if the opponent isn't in kill % yet. Characters I found hard to do this to(due to their floatiness and ability to DI as they free-fall) are:
-Wario
-Pit
-Marth*
~List is incomplete~
Marth suffers from less free fall lag so it's only frame perfect if you can do it to him :\
The other 2 have great mobility but it is STILL POSSIBLE to do it. Just read the DI." - Norcal Deez[/collapse]
[collapse=Castle Siege]
1st Transformation
"-low celing early kills for luigi
- both platforms allow for Platform pressure and good movement for Luigi.
- slanted stage floor allows for Luigi to play defensive with fireballs on the left side of the stage. The slant changes the direction of the fireballs to a 65 degree angle towards the opponent." - LuigiSama
"A little awkward since it's REALLY small. Fireball camp has to be precise since if PS'd, it spells damage taken. I prefer to do the so called obsolete Aerial zoning so they don't come near me and wait for either the shift phase(in-between room or whatever you wanna call it) or the inner castle phase.
Killing is easier here since it's the smallest of the 4. Be wary of the edges since it is possible to get gimped a.k.a. Blacked, as we call it on norcal, during recovery." - Norcal Deez
"I am not too fond of Castle Siege to be honest. I feel like that your starting position really affects how the match is going to go. Luigi is really strong at the lower-left side of the stage but in a bad way on the higher-right side. He controls so much more space on the left side. The right side, he forced to approach on because his fireballs aren't altered in trajectory and he doesn't benefit at all on the higher end of anything.
You can make aerials a little safer by fastfalling them on the slope as it causes you to slide away." - Dib
Shift Phase(1 & 2)
"If Chaingrab(D3) or at low % vs Falco, this is pretty much the stay-away-and-run-like-a-***** part of the match, as one grab can be a free stock for them. Other than that killing is a bit tougher horizontally, but c'mon... it's Luigi - Kills @ 50% and up lol. I digress... Nothing too special here but just be aware of what the next phase is, because you could put yourself in a REALLY bad position if you stray on the outer parts prior to Phase 1 or Phase 4." - Norcal Deez
2nd Transformation
"- blast zones at the left and right allow for early bthrow kills
- the platforms make it easier to get away from chaingrabbing characters
-Statue provides extend hitboxes" - LuigiSama
"Using the sculptures to extend hitboxes is the best <3. I was talking to Sean to see if I could get better info on how hitting stuff like the sculptures affects moves and I didn't get too much other than that Disjointed moves will get bigger hitboxes and last for a longer time, i.e. Lucas' Up-smash. Whereas MK's D-Smash just stays out a tad longer. So with that, I interpreted with a little theorycrafting that Our F-Smash & D-Smash will stay out a bit longer, but our Up-smash will get a considerable boost in size for the hitboxes. Up-B is the same as F/D-Smashes. Down-B goes extra squirrely on the statues too. Again just theorycrafting :\.
Anyways, back to the stage layout. A lot of room to camp. Kill % should be similar to that of SV. You can Down-B from the ground to the awning things on the side...just a random tidbit." - Norcal Deez.
"This is notorious for being the "Run the **** away if you're in the lead or are a chaingrab-able character fighting D3" stage. If I had to pick my favorite of the Castle Siege formations, it would be this one. The statues provide excellent cover from characters with better projectiles and even though it's a double-edged sword, you can refresh your moves on the statues. They also extend hitboxes and Usmash is definitely useful here." - Dib
3rd Transformation
"-stage tilts and can allow for early kills for luigi
- against some projectiles like Falco's laser Luigi can crouch behind the elevated portion of the stage and not get hurt." - LuigiSama
"That little lip on the center-left of the rock can help manipulate fireball game, but don't over-centralize your positioning there. It can help with getting out of CG's. The stage tilts just like Lylat Cruise, so keep in mind on how to recover here. I've been blacked there a couple times and it ain't fun. Now that I think about it, this place is, size-wise, close to BF, maybe smaller. That should give you guys a ballpark on kill %." - Norcal Deez
"The final part of this level is not particularly beneficial for Luigi. It's essentially FD and Lylat combined. It's tilting makes it harder to recover and with it being long and mostly flat it doesn't help for approaching or dealing with camping.
It's not a solid CP imo." - Dib
[/COLLAPSE]
[collapse=Lylat Cruise]
"-Lylat tilts up and down ruining any kind of spacing and moves
-There are platforms so Luigi use the platforms in any way he wants.
-Depending on the way the ship is tilted Luigi can use the tilt to manipulate the direction of his fireball. Also if luigi is on the left side of the ship while it is tilted like this --> \ it makes it hard for him to grab the edge with up b. Lastly it becomes difficult to snap edge with Luigi missile." - LuigiSama
"Going off of what BC said, Fireball camp game CAN get tricky a bit. Using the slants and the ship tilting movement can help with some camping. You can Platform Cancel here depending on the stage position. If it's leaning to the left: You can PC on the Middle and Left Platforms, but not the right one. If leaning to the right: You can PC the Middle and Right Platforms, but not the left one. If it is neutral: You can do it to all of them.
Killing vertically is a bit tougher, since this stage has one of the higher ceilings in the map selections. Try for more stage gimps if you can, or do it the ol' fashioned way and just beat em up till they're at Kill %.
I honestly don't like this stage for Luigi, despite the Ledge-Slip Up-B works here, it's just too much going on for the stage itself to make it a solid pick to go here. If you're one of those Sqweegees that like oddball stages like this, by all means go for it, but Luigi does better on the 3 neutrals imo.
Idk who you'd want to take here besides maybe a Marth or anyone's recovery that is similar to that(CF & Mario), but if you are taken here... that's a whole other story." - Norcal Deez
"I really like this stage.
-The platforms help for steady stage coverage whether it be in the air or on the ground.
-The tilting allows for platform canceling, which can be used to pressure your opponents.
-The low height of the side platforms makes Usmash useful for shield pressuring and poking from below.
-The slants makes it easier to avoid lasers and other projectiles.
-Lower ceiling for easier kills
-The tilting angles fireballs for more vertical zoning.
It's not a terrible stage at all for Luigi. Yes, the tilting can be a bit of an issue but all in all, it's pretty good for Luigi." - Dib [/collapse]
