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Lucina 1.1.0 Patch Changes

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ZFallen

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I'm surprised nobody has done this yet as she appears to improve each patch!

I'm in Australia so time zones will be a little messy but I'll update this post as time goes on and we get more information. Please let me know what I'm missing and feel free to discuss your opinions on the patch.

  • Neutral Air
    • Lucina first hit damage increased 2.375% → 3.325%
    • Lucina second hit damage increased 6.55% → 7.6%
  • Up Tilt Lucina damage increased 6.65%/7.125% → 7.6%~/8.1%~ (early/late)
Unconfirmed:
 
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Moydow

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These are all confirmed for Marth, and almost certainly apply to Lucina as well:

U-tilt: Now lasts a total of 36 frames, down from 39 (FAF 37, down from 40)

F-air: Now 16 frames landing lag, down from 18
U-air: Now 14 frames landing lag, down from 16
D-air: Now 24 frames landing lag, down from 28 (I checked several times, it's only 4 frames less)
B-air: Now 17 frames landing lag, down from 19

Shield Breaker: Now lasts a total of 50 frames uncharged, down from 52 (FAF 51, down from 53)
Dolphin Slash: Now 20 frames landing lag, down from 23
 

LightLV

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This sounds odd coming from me, but if the landing lag also applies to Lucina, as well as the further increase on her damage...it's getting to the point where she might be competing for Marth's position.
 

CommanderRin

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This sounds odd coming from me, but if the landing lag also applies to Lucina, as well as the further increase on her damage...it's getting to the point where she might be competing for Marth's position.
Increased knockback from tipper still takes stocks a lot earlier than Lucina, and the frame data advantages from having both a Sour/Sweet spot is really good. (Lucina's Up-smash is really good, don't fish for it though)

Though I'm glad Sakurai and team are giving Lucina an extra little push every patch. I hope they end up branching off from Marth so that she can develop her own game plan.

U-tilt is supposedly the first move to be flat-out better than Marth's version according to a member of the Marth boards.
 
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BSXDrayden

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Finally she gets less lag on aerials! Is it enough for actual strings yet though?
 
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chronoboy

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So are the aerial end lag changes confirmed? How big a deal would that be? I'm away from my console this weekend but I've been waiting for her aerials to be buffed for a long time~
 
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CommanderRin

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So are the aerial end lag changes confirmed? How big a deal would that be? I'm away from my console this weekend but I've been waiting for her aerials to be buffed for a long time~
Not enough to make a huge difference, but every step towards better spacing tools is good. Dair is still terrible (imo) and F-air is still the sub-optimal spacing aerial.

U-air buff was good for easier landing traps and such and is almost on par with N-airs landing lag (N-air is arguably are best aerial).

Overall good buffs but not enough to make a huge difference yet. If more balance patches hit I'm sure that we'll continue to recieve more and more buffs.

U-tilt is really good as well btw.
 

Shadestars

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So are the aerial end lag changes confirmed? How big a deal would that be? I'm away from my console this weekend but I've been waiting for her aerials to be buffed for a long time~
Not enough to make a huge difference, but every step towards better spacing tools is good. Dair is still terrible (imo) and F-air is still the sub-optimal spacing aerial.

U-air buff was good for easier landing traps and such and is almost on par with N-airs landing lag (N-air is arguably are best aerial).

Overall good buffs but not enough to make a huge difference yet. If more balance patches hit I'm sure that we'll continue to recieve more and more buffs.

U-tilt is really good as well btw.
Reduced lag is always a huge deal, and we got it on nearly everything. Probably not enough to make new combos, but we're ganna be that much safer to play where having our lag be punished is probably our greatest weakness.
 

BrendanLee

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The reduce in lag this patch, has raised my hopes for the next patch!!
"Hope will never die" in Lucina voice.
 

CommanderRin

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Reduced lag is always a huge deal, and we got it on nearly everything. Probably not enough to make new combos, but we're ganna be that much safer to play where having our lag be punished is probably our greatest weakness.
Safer yes, but I still don't think its what Lucina needs as a character.

F-air is still sub-optimal compared to N-air and B-air isn't something you throw out for spacing too often, D-air is still terrible imo. Happy about U-aur however.

For F-air, safety was never an issue because you shouldn't have been approaching with it or fast falling with it imo.
 
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CommanderRin

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No, it is. There's a trend among high-tier in smash, and it always has alot to do with aerial safety and landing lag.
Lucina needs something to differentiate herself from Marth's game plan. If we continue to recieve the same things Marth gets we'll continue to be the worse option. Also safer aerials is good, don't get me wrong, but we could be getting buffs to grab for example (which would have a much larger impact for our neutral).

Bottom line, if someone runs up and shields an attack we're still getting punished and we aren't in a position where we can just throw out attacks all willy nilly.
 
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chronoboy

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Lucina needs something to differentiate herself from Marth's game plan. If we continue to recieve the same things Marth gets we'll continue to be the worse option. Also safer aerials is good, don't get me wrong, but we could be getting buffs to grab for example (which would have a much larger impact for our neutral).

Bottom line, if someone runs up and shields an attack we're still getting punished and we aren't in a position where we can just throw out attacks all willy nilly.
Agreed. I had always hoped, even before the game launched that Lucina would be the slightly weaker but quicker version of Marth with a better early combo game. It would be nice if they stuck to buffing Marth's sweet spots and left the end lag buffs for Lucy.
 

Wnyke

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Well I was waiting for someone to start this...

Since I wasn't expecting any changes at all, all the buffs are welcome... the damage was something I thought she needed either that or a knockback increase...

Anyhow I just don't understand why everyone wants f-air to be meelee good, in version 1.0.8 she could short hop f-air without any landing lag if you started fast enough and it was a nice keep out move, for aproaches b-air is better vs grounded opponents, but as someone stated before full shield beats any air option...

The most relevant change in my opinion is the shield breaker buff along with u-air...
 

LucinaNab1

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And I'm just going with "Hey, better than nothing." Hopefully more good buffs come in the future.
 

Shadestars

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Safer yes, but I still don't think its what Lucina needs as a character
I disagree, our lag is the death of us, it's what's putting Lucina and Marth in the lower tiers. We need less of it, even a small reduction is going to do wonders for us. We have less now, probably enough to barely crawl into mid-tiers. I would like to have even less, hopefully with another patch.
 

acetuner

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The day they give out a nerf. I'm scared as we receive buffs consistently. More sword range would be amazing.
 

chronoboy

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Reduced lag is always a huge deal, and we got it on nearly everything. Probably not enough to make new combos, but we're ganna be that much safer to play where having our lag be punished is probably our greatest weakness.
I just noticed I can pull off 2 u-airs with one jump. Is that new?
 
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ShadowKing

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Well today I played her a little and her arierals did improve alot including her smash attacks slightly come out faster
 

LucinaNab1

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All this talk of end lag punishing is making me cringe. It's as if Lucina/Marth players have to "trick" their opponent into attacking instead of just going all out aggressive like I enjoy doing. But the problem with fighting games is the type of player who'd rather sit than fight. And at the rate I'm going (throwing chairs into walls), there's no way to fix that.
 

Wilty

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jus 4 frames reduction on Dair? reduction on the rest of inputs are nice C:
i was tasting the changes... have no words to express gratitude
 

ZFallen

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These are all confirmed for Marth, and almost certainly apply to Lucina as well:

U-tilt: Now lasts a total of 36 frames, down from 39 (FAF 37, down from 40)

F-air: Now 16 frames landing lag, down from 18
U-air: Now 14 frames landing lag, down from 16
D-air: Now 24 frames landing lag, down from 28 (I checked several times, it's only 4 frames less)
B-air: Now 17 frames landing lag, down from 19

Shield Breaker: Now lasts a total of 50 frames uncharged, down from 52 (FAF 51, down from 53)
Dolphin Slash: Now 20 frames landing lag, down from 23

Are these confirmed for Lucina? Just double checking to prevent a mixup with Marths data.
 

Moydow

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Are these confirmed for Lucina? Just double checking to prevent a mixup with Marths data.
Yes, any frame data changes to Marth apply to Lucina as well.

There's also the universal nerf to rolls and spot dodges.
Lucina now becomes vulnerable on frame 18 of a spot dodge (formerly 19), and on frame 19 of a forward or back roll (formerly 20).
 

LucinaNab1

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Let me know how many people will be able to take advantage of that frame specific timing lol
 

Emblem Lord

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More like if you create a trap situation with say d-tilt, thanks to that one frame difference, her ability to punish a poor roll or spotdodge is more consistent.
 

LucinaNab1

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You tell me if there are people that make single frame specific attacks. Who even can see that good without some kind of slow motion or visual aid? I sure as hell can't. Then again, I only have one good eye anyway. Maybe that's why I end up hating any kind of fast-paced competitive gaming so much. I'd challenge anyone to do everything they can currently do with only half their vision. Sometimes I find myself wishing everyone had my handicaps, especially in FPS games, I bet all these pro shooters couldn't do it.
 

Wilty

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few frames makes a great difference... before the patch people could punish capitan falcon side special, easy... now its more difictul to take em out with a smash atack... the same way works with lucina and her Dair... it was so frustrating trying to do something against the rival with that mother f.... lag, nwith this patch lucina and marth got more chances to going up on the tier....

PD; doing the "Breaker reverse" (it's a name i invented lel) you need that precission to execute that technic, it's like b revers without the bounce
 
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CommanderRin

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It isn't about reacting to that one extra frame, it's about knowing they'll roll and that extra frame gives you that much more of a chance to punish the roll.
 

Emblem Lord

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Average human reaction is around 12 to 15 frames. The average gamer is about equal to a pro athlete which puts us around 10 to 12 frames. If you are looking for a specific action it can consistently be at about 9 to 10 frames.

So yeah. Its possible.

How do you think Street Fighter players consistently uppercut/anti-air jump ins with Ryu, Sagat, Akuma, ect?
 

LucinaNab1

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And once again, I tell you why do you think I've quit every competitive shooter or fighter I ever tried to get into? I don't have the reaction of the average person because it takes me that much longer to notice something no matter how hard I try. I'll always have that handicap.
 

Iron Kraken

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It isn't about reacting to that one extra frame, it's about knowing they'll roll and that extra frame gives you that much more of a chance to punish the roll.
@ LucinaNab1 LucinaNab1 this is the thing. It's not that people react very differently based on 1 frame. It's that that having 1 more punishable frame boosts the odds of being able to punish defensive options. Even 1 frame can make a very significant difference. If you've ever missed a punish on your opponent's roll or spot dodge, there's a good chance that generally you've only been off by just a few frames. So if on average your whiffed roll / spot dodge punishes are off by let's say, 4 frames (in a hypothetical scenario, this would mean that your missed punishes might be off by 1/2/3/4/5/6/7 frames in 7 separate attempts), this would mean that with the universal 1 frame nerf to spot dodges and rolls, 14.3% of your punishes that used to whiff will now connect, which is meaningful. Those numbers are just made up, and I'm not sure how big of a difference is actually being made (it depends on a player's level of precision), but that's the general idea.
 
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JuanP_91

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I honestly think this minimal lag reduction is a big deal.

If you think about it, Fair's landing lag is the same as pre-patch Uair, which served as a combo starter!
So technically, since their knockback values are very similar, Fair may have the ability to combo!

I believe fast falling is not out of the question anymore after this.

Only thing I'd like for her is a better grab game, and something unique that Marth lacks (much like everyone else wants).
 

ksizl4life

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Hey guys, ksizzle of VitaminZK here. We've created a patch notes video for Lucina(and Marth) so we hope you enjoy! if you know theres something we missed, please let me know and I'll add some parts to a miscellaneous video we'll make at the end of the series! Thanks!

 

Nika

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Gotta say, I've been feeling way better about my Lucina post-patch. I was pretty down on her and considering switching mains, but now I'm gonna keep playing her. Those little lag reductions are hugely helpful.

We'll see what happens at the next tournament!
 
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Wnyke

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Well if I could ask for something, it would be more damage in the jab and shield breaker, like only 1%/1.25%... anyhow those lag buff are great...
 

gumx

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imo lucina needs dancing blade to be more safe/easier to chain? i seem to get grabbed a lot during dancing blade for some reason. less end lag for dancing blade 1 on air and ground too would be very helpful.
 
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