Lucas instant jump+uair

[daboi]

Hey! This is my first post so any constructive criticism is welcome.

So I was playing in Solo practicing some hand movements because I'm bad. I kinda just happened to tap jump and c-sticked to the side because reasons. I saw he did his second jump instantly. No first jump, no attack, just the 2nd jump. So I tried it again and this is what I've learned. If you tap jump [+hold] wait a teeny bit so you don't up smash and then click A (or c-stick up) and he will do his up air almost instantly a little under the height of a full jump. It's perfect if your opponent is on one of the lower platforms. You also still have your 2nd jump. On PS2 I can still nair right after before landing.

If this is nothing new and already common knowledge please feel free to give me some tips on how to best implement it in my game.

tl;dr:
1) Tap Up[+hold]
2) Wait a little bit as to not up smash
3) Click A
*You'll instantly be a little above the lower platforms doing u-air and still have time for a n-air, f-air, or u-air.
**You need to use your 2nd jump and then immediately b-air to have time to land that.
**Help me, I'm bad.

 

[D e l t a]

I'm going to attempt to decipher your post so I know we're on the same page lol

First a knowledge drop for you or anyone who doesn't understand Cstick stuff. Included in a spoiler so I don't distract the post from main points I'll try to be making.

Spoiler

C stick can buffer 3 different options while holding shield (assuming default controls). Simply hold shield then tap Cstick one of 3 directions (up/down/side)

1. Buffer roll (Cstick left or right)
   • You'll hear all about this while watching commentary on high level players. Typically when playing against top level Fox/Falco pressure. Shine grab for instance, can only be avoided by insane, inhuman reflexes / luck, or a buffered roll/spot dodge
2. Buffer spot dodge (Cstick down)
3. Buffer jump (Cstick up)
   • Good for perfect shines / aerials OoS

==

Now on to the good stuff. You're saying you instantly double jump after doing a normal fullhop with tap jump then hitting Cstick roughly 4 frames later as to not jump cancel upsmash, correct? I could see some weird input stuff happening when you're holding analog up after jumping then trying to instant Uair. I'll try to test this and confirm later. I think it's happened to me when I first started, but I just changed my timings so it didn't become a repeating occurance.

==

Tangent note: doing SH Uairs right at the apex of your jump then immediately fast falling -or- DJC fast fall Uairs works well against players who are on a platform no higher than the height of Battlefield (stages such as Dreamland or Delphino require a full hop -> DJC). There's also a potentially frame tight timing on SH Bair that will hit players on platforms. Uair is almost always guaranteed to hit and is safer considering the end lag comparisons.

If you do full hop Fair/Uair/Nair underneath shielded opponents, it's tricky to punish and you can followup with a falling Nair/Dair just over their shield. Same concept applies to rising double jump aerials from ledge. I'll see if I can get a few quick gfycats of that later to demonstrate.

EDIT: A minute later I'm viewing Sarton's match and found one part of what I wanted to show you haha
http://gfycat.com/SelfassuredSpitefulHarpseal
Fairly quick and it's hard to punish these Uairs unless you've dealt with that situation before

 

[daboi]

Yeah! That's what I was talking about. (The gfycat) where he's on the floor and he practically teleport straight up with the u-air. I guess it was too fast for me to really notice in other videos or not as common. Thanks for the clarification and the info!

 

[D e l t a]

Happy to help out my fellow Lucas players ^_^ PM at higher levels can be as fast as Melee, so some things might not be apparent at first. I'll still test out jumping using Cstick w/o using shield and see if there might be some weird bug. Otherwise, I know the rest of what I said is completely true.

==

It's actually not as common to see this because IMO full hop / rising aerials *unless done in that type of situation where the opponent is shielded on a platform,* are extremely bad in mid to high lvl of play. Lucas gets easily juggled due to weight and fall speed. Although his magnet stalls at higher %'s in between juggles can throw off most opponents due to the slight vertical rise and momentum halt (you'll see me do this often and sometimes it can be a bad habit).

tl;dr Lucas is a ground-centric character and shouldn't be in the air for too long unless he's comboing someone else. Full hop aerials 9/10 times = bad.

 

[trancex]

I've been doing these types of uairs for a while. They're great for comboing and, as Delta has already gone into depth about, pressuring people on platforms. Just don't do it against Marths who can shield drop uair.

 

[D e l t a]

Or bait out their shield drop and punish

 

[20PK]

Yeah I was going to ask about rising aerials and see about incorporating them into my play heaps, but I guess this answers my questions lol.

I find rising fair to angle your bair coming down works quite nicely as a mixup though. The rising fair gives you an "L-shaped" positioning that opens up completely new options.