Lucas Hitbox Visualization

[Furil]

Smash 4 hitboxes are interpolated, so imagine a line between a hitbox's current position and it's last. It hits that area too.
Example: http://i.imgur.com/wEBKNpI.gif

There are potentially bugs in any of these, so let me know if you notice anything particuarly off and I'll check. There have been instances of weird hitboxes that ended up being a bug.

No zair or grabs yet.

Spoiler: JAB 1

Spoiler: JAB 2

Spoiler: JAB 3

Spoiler: DASH ATTACK

Spoiler: GETUP ATTACK

Spoiler: GETUP ATTACK 2

Spoiler: LEDGE ATTACK

Spoiler: TRIP ATTACK

Spoiler: FTILT

Spoiler: FTILT HIGH

Spoiler: FTILT LOW

Spoiler: DTILT

Spoiler: UTILT

Spoiler: FSMASH

Spoiler: DSMASH

Spoiler: USMASH

Spoiler: NAIR

Spoiler: FAIR

Spoiler: BAIR

Spoiler: DAIR

Spoiler: UAIR

Spoiler: PK Thunder 2

Spoiler: PSI Magnet Hit

Mini-FAQ:
Q: How did you make these?
A: I made a parser for animcmd commands and applied it to the model and animation from the 3DS version of the game.

Q: Can you do hurtboxes?
A: Not yet

Q: These don't look like the quality of the Wii U models, why?
A: These are 3DS models (and data). There isn't a difference in frame data between Wii U and 3DS.

Q: This attack looks wrong, is this actually correct?
A: Let me know which one and I'll check. It's possible for a bug or two to mess up stuff.

Q: The image isn't playing.
A: There are play, reverse, and frame advance buttons under the images. They may be hard to see.

Q: Can I use these for my guide?
A: Yes.

Thank you

 

[frozentreasure]

Up air's hitbox is so bad we just get back air again.

 

[JosePollo]

About what I expected from most hitboxes. Dash attack and fair both feel a lot bigger in-game than they look on paper, but I guess that can be attributed to how disjointed it is. And we all know how bad his up air is lmao

Thanks for this amazing work Furil. I swear I'll stop pestering you about random moves now!

 

[Deleted member]

JosePollo Do you have the Zair Hitbox? I seen you do it a while back but can't find it.

 

[JosePollo]

JosePollo Do you have the Zair Hitbox? I seen you do it a while back but can't find it.

Here:

Spoiler: Z air (Data #: 091)

View attachment 76453
Z air - IASA frame 60, 8-frame landing lag; 22-frame landing lag off of an air dodge

Hitbox ID=0x0 (snake's head) active 9-12; 4.0% damage, 45° angle; 30 BKB, 0 FKB, 60 KBG; 1.0 hitlag, 1.0 SDI
Hitbox ID=0x0 (snake's head) active 13-19; 2.8% damage, 45° angle; 30 BKB, 0 FKB, 60 KBG; 1.0 hitlag, 1.0 SDI

This is my interpretation of the data, though, so take it worth a grain of salt.

 

[Deleted member]

Awesome, thank you JosePollo
Great work Furil , going to be needing this!

 

[frozentreasure]

And we all know how bad his up air is lmao

The WebM for up air was the one for back air originally, that was the joke.

 

[Suzukipot]

Real nice to see this! Most of these hitboxes are more or less what I expected, but seeing them visualized always helps.

 

[MrStardustRicon]

Up air triggers me....

 

[MrWhYYZ]

Adding frame data on top of them would be awesome!
If it's possible to add it then, I'll send you the frame data.

 

[JosePollo]

So... I was going through the data just now and noticed something odd about f-air... has anyone ever actually hit with the 6.0% damage hitbox? It should be impossible according to the data, which goes:

"AsynchronousTimer(9.000000)#frame 9
(ID=0x0, 9.0% sour spot hitbox data goes here)
(ID=0x1, 11.5% sweet spot hitbox data goes here)
SynchronousTimer(2.000000)#frame 11
(ID=0x0, 6.0% sour spot hitbox data goes here)
RemoveHitbox(0x0)
AsynchronousTimer(13.000000)#frame 13
RemoveAllHitboxes( )
Etc., etc."

According to this, the 9.0% sour spot stales into the 6.0% on frame 11, which is the same frame on which the hitbox is removed... basically meaning the entire 6.0% hitbox doesn't even happen at all in-game, which is further defended by Furil's f-air gif, where the sour spot is completely missing frames 11-12. Possibly some programming error? Maybe they meant for it to go something like:

"AsynchronousTimer(9.000000)#frame 9
(ID=0x0, 9.0% sour spot hitbox data goes here)
(ID=0x1, 11.5% sweet spot hitbox data goes here)
SynchronousTimer(2.000000)#frame 11
(ID=0x0, 6.0% sour spot hitbox data goes here)
SynchronousTimer(1.000000)#frame 12
RemoveHitbox(0x0)
AsynchronousTimer(13.000000)#frame 13
RemoveAllHitboxes( )
Etc., etc."

Although that single active frame is as good as no active frames, so who knows?

 

[Furil]

Oh, I actually noticed that back when I first started making my program. I thought it was a glitch on my part, but it seems to have been a bug on the developers part.
I actually think they may have been meaning to delete hitbox #1 not 0.
So the attack becomes this, which looks to make sense even though it makes the move much worse.
I wonder if it was intentional. What did the move look like in Brawl?

Spoiler: Fair with hitbox #1 deleted

 

[JosePollo]

Oh, I actually noticed that back when I first started making my program. I thought it was a glitch on my part, but it seems to have been a bug on the developers part.
I actually think they may have been meaning to delete hitbox #1 not 0.
So the attack becomes this, which looks to make sense even though it makes the move much worse.
I wonder if it was intentional. What did the move look like in Brawl?

Spoiler: Fair with hitbox #1 deleted

Funny part is the way it's programmed right now makes sense with the animation, since the PSI hexagons disappear after frame 12. It's what irks me about dash attack: that the hexagons are visible 14-17, but the hitboxes are only active 15-16. I hope they never go back to fix this, because it would make the move worse functionally and viso-mechanically (which is not actually a word, but basically means "the way its mechanics work together with its visual effects" lol)

Both hitboxes should active 9-12, imo. 7-10 would be better, though.

Also, Furil , what would up air look like if you do Bone=0x13, Size=5.0, and X=3.5?

 

[JosePollo]

Going by this video...

...both hitboxes had the same active frames. Dash attack also lasted four frames, but that's a whole 'nother story ):<

 

[Furil]

Also, Furil , what would up air look like if you do Bone=0x13, Size=5.0, and X=3.5?

It would look gorgeous :>

Spoiler: Such grace up air

So majestic.

Going by this video...
...both hitboxes had the same active frames. Dash attack also lasted four frames, but that's a whole 'nother story ):<

Maybe it was supposed to just replace the sour-spot part, but what's weird about that is the new 6% bubble is moved forward slightly.
Kurogane Hammer lists the attack as working like I guessed above with the sweet spot vanishing and being replaced by the 6% one.
@KuroganeHammer could you provide some insight here? Is there something we're missing?

 

[JosePollo]

It would look gorgeous :>

Spoiler: Such grace up air

So majestic.

The animation is a little different, but this is basically what his up air was is Brawl, although it'd make more sense hitting 6-9 since his head starts moving forward on frame 6, but alas... the things we can't have in life.

As for fair, it might have been they DID intend for the sweetspot to only be 9-10, and the reason the sour spot is shifted backward during those two frames is to allow for an easier time connecting with the sweet spot. If the sour spot were at X=1.0 9-10 it would be overlapping the sweet spot enough that it would be kind of a challenge to hit with it without being very precise with your spacing.

 

[frozentreasure]

The position of the hitbox doesn't bother me, especially knowing where it actually is. I feel like I would be thrown off if it moved with his head again. It just needs to be a tiny bit bigger.

But also that's not the first thing I'd change anyway; the first thing he needs fixed is his down smash.

 

[sadfaps]

utilt side hitboxes, last hit of dair and last hit of dsmash make me hot and bothered

 

[Hukster]

Them jab hitboxes though. Love it. Seems like most of his hitboxes with the disjointed attacks seem pretty much with how we see the attacks in the game. Neat.

 

[JosePollo]

Them jab hitboxes though. Love it. Seems like most of his hitboxes with the disjointed attacks seem pretty much with how we see the attacks in the game. Neat.

Keep in mind that his limbs and head blow up when he attacks in-game, so the disjoints you see in jab, down tilt, and up air aren't as stupid as they look here.

 

[Hukster]

Keep in mind that his limbs and head blow up when he attacks in-game, so the disjoints you see in jab, down tilt, and up air aren't as stupid as they look here.

Dang, that's a shame. Guess Lucas hitboxes are really only mediocre. Ah well, thanks for informing me on this though.

 

[JosePollo]

Dang, that's a shame. Guess Lucas hitboxes are really only mediocre. Ah well, thanks for informing me on this though.

Yeah not the best in terms of hitbox sizes compared to the rest of the cast, but his hitboxes are very good in proportion to his body, and he does get very good reward off of landing many of them.

E.g., up tilt is very quick, can combo into itself, and puts the opponent into a disadvantageous situation above you, all his smashes have VERY good kill power and are safe even at 0%, nair is a decently safe (for Smash 4 standards) pressure tool that can do a 12% if you land all the hits AND comboes into other things, fair is a very good disjointed attack, does 11.5% and has very low landing lag (it's almost like Mewtwo's fair, though not as fast and with longer reach), bair is a ridiculously good meteor, and can be comboed into AND out of if you hit the sour spot at certain percents, yadda yadda.

Basically what I'm saying is his hitboxes may not be the best, but the attacks themselves all work well in tandem with his moveset, and each one has a useful application in multiple scenarios.

Also, who do I have to summon to get this pinned? I'd hate to see this get buried in with the rest of the normal threads.

 

[Masque]

Yeah not the best in terms of hitbox sizes compared to the rest of the cast, but his hitboxes are very good in proportion to his body, and he does get very good reward off of landing many of them.

E.g., up tilt is very quick, can combo into itself, and puts the opponent into a disadvantageous situation above you, all his smashes have VERY good kill power and are safe even at 0%, nair is a decently safe (for Smash 4 standards) pressure tool that can do a 12% if you land all the hits AND comboes into other things, fair is a very good disjointed attack, does 11.5% and has very low landing lag (it's almost like Mewtwo's fair, though not as fast and with longer reach), bair is a ridiculously good meteor, and can be comboed into AND out of if you hit the sour spot at certain percents, yadda yadda.

Basically what I'm saying is his hitboxes may not be the best, but the attacks themselves all work well in tandem with his moveset, and each one has a useful application in multiple scenarios.

Happy to see some more positivity regarding Lucas's toolkit.

 

[Lochy]

Most of it looks really good.
I do agree with people that up air looks way too big tho.
Anyway keep up the great work!

 

[JosePollo]

Most of it looks really good.
I do agree with people that up air looks way too big tho.
Anyway keep up the great work!

Mostly due to the lack of expanding hurtboxes on these, namely jabs, down tilt, and up air. Lucas's hurtboxes expand during the animations, so the disjoints seen here are nowhere near as good in-game.

 

[Lochy]

Mostly due to the lack of expanding hurtboxes on these, namely jabs, down tilt, and up air. Lucas's hurtboxes expand during the animations, so the disjoints seen here are nowhere near as good in-game.

I actually did not know that is how they worked. Thanks for clearing that up for me!
Maybe with some new mods, we will be able to have a debug mode where we can see the hitboxes.

 

[JosePollo]

But also that's not the first thing I'd change anyway; the first thing he needs fixed is his down smash.

With the way shield stun works in smash 4 you would lock your opponent in shield for all three hits if they were all allowed to hit the opponent. In previous smash titles hitlag and shield stun both happened simultaneously when an attack made contact with a shield, meaning if you attack had 15 frames of hitlag, but only 5 frames of shield stun you opponent would be able to act out of shield 10 frames before your hitlag would wear off. In Smash 4, however, shield stun doesn't start until after hitlag wears off, so even if that same attack hits an opponent's shield your opponent's shield stun wouldn't start until after your 15 frames of hitlag wore off; makes attacks overall safer on shield, especially particularly strong ones, though it always depends on individual cooldown.

Anyway, down smash inflicts 11, 10, and 8 frames of shield stun through all 3 hits. There's never less than 10 frames between hits, so if every hit of down smash were able to hit the same target you'd be able to lock an opponent in shield for all three hits. 1.19(17+14+11)=49.98 shield damage, which is basically a guaranteed shield break, so the programmers just leave the same hitbox active throughout the entirety of the attack (until frame 41) and use a different type of coding to pseudo-remove the hitbox while maintaining its having struck a target so that it can no longer act on the same target again for subsequent hits. As far as I'm aware, Lucas's down smash the only instance in the game where this is kind of thing is programmed.

 

[frozentreasure]

Someone made a Lucas mod that includes his down smash hitting all three times, and the second hit on shield always pushes you far enough away that the third can't hit, unless you're stuck at the edge. You could make it work with some tweaking.

 

[JosePollo]

You could do that, but then you're basically getting the same result. The way I'd do it is space the hits out to where they can choose to hold shield and still get hit by subsequent hits. 20, 34, 48 works well, but you end up with an IASA frame of 69, cuz leaving it at 60 would be Meta Knight f-smash broken in terms of cooldown. The optimal way to do it would be to make the down smash article hitboxes since those don't inflict nearly as much shield stun as regular hitboxes, meaning you wouldn't have to change any timings on the attack, but that requires some tricky coding.

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

Do we have any visuals for the hitbox of PK Freeze? I was thinking of doing some labwork on which characters jablock PKF might work on and it would be really handy!

 

[SwedenIKEA]

THAT UP SMASH THO!!!

 

[MERPIS]

Wow.....Those Jab and dtilt hitboxes....