Lucas General Discussion

[Moth101]

Thanks, I need to use DJC ice balls more.

Another thing, from down tilt are there any good options at lower percent (I know that at higher percent you can get smashes off it) as unless you just dtilt again most stuff feels too laggy to get stuff off it. Should I just avoid the move until I rack some damage? It has some interesting properties with its weird hitstun so it would be cool if you could get stuff off it.

 

[DeFish]

I haven't been able to do much with dtilt at lower percentages, and generally find either Jab or magnet to be much better options then. However, once your opponent is at a percentage where they can't CC it, dtilt leads into dsmash very nicely.

 

[CatcherAndTheRai]

So, I'm pretty new to PM in all. I just went to my first melee tourney this Saturday in MD at Squabbles 3. I played some friendly pm matches and instantly fell in love with lucas. The L canceling and DJC are coming naturally because i played yoshi a bit in melee and brawl. I just need some help on a couple of things:

1. What is OU moves? like the OU DACUS and stuff. I'm so lost on that.

2. What buttons do you use for DJC PKF? and why is it better than just SH PKF?

3. I watched some combo video on lucas, and i see them going from magnet and zipping across stage! is this a feature in the earlier versions of the game? If not, how do i do this.

4. I just feel like I'm moving around too slow. In every match I see with lucas their zooming everywhere. (my speed is more of a pink fresh level (if you've seen his lucas))

5. Last but not least, My friend plays Zelda. What are Lucas' best options against her. I just cant seem to do anything against her. Especially kill move wise.

 

[nimigoha]

1. OU is Offense Up, which is charging his neutral B. It gives all your smashes a boost, and you keep the charge if you connect with the smash. Whiff a smash attack and you have to charge again. Pressing B if you have the charge will do 'OU Burst' which also needs to hit to keep the charge. Also only full charges do anything. Stopping the charge halfway will do nothing, and you'll have to start from scratch. DACUS is a Brawl technique, Dash Attack Canceled Up Smash. Video tutorials are the best way to learn this.

3. Do you mean a grounded magnet? Then they're wavedashing out of the release hitbox. So let go of B and then immediately wavedash. If you mean in the air, this is a magnet pull and is done by using magnet as soon as you can after an aerial PKF.

 

[Moth101]

2. I do DJC PKF by just hitting Y then Y again soon after but sliding my thumb from Y to B. It's better than SH PKF due to it being faster and you can get better followups.

4. That's mostly just wavedashing/landing and dashdancing loads. Just practice movement options.

 

[Inserio]

5. Up throw. Zelda is super floaty, so it should kill early. Just watch out for trying to grab during Nayru's Love, as I believe it has priority.

 

[nimigoha]

Anyone watch S@X last night? Pink Fresh won like 4 games with a 0-death combo.

Each one had a sick read where he would Dair the opponent from really high up, read the tech roll (usually to the right) and combo into Usmash. It was pretty impressive.

 

[CatcherAndTheRai]

@ Inserio yes, but how do i follow that up she usually goes to high up for Uair to reach. But how do I combat her. I feel as though if I do a lot of shield pressure, I get Neutral B'd away, if i am just outside of that, I get Lightning Kicked. If i stay away and space, I get Din camped and forced to do something.

EDIT: Also, what would be a good secondary to lucas? Since I am trying to learn all of this I'd like to have a back up when playing...

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I found a MU where Burst is actually usable, it was ****ing Captain Falcon

 

[Inserio]

@ CatcherAndTheRai I wish I could be of a little more help on this one, but I don't have extensive experience against Zelda. That was just what I remember helped me win in one of the sets I had this weekend. One thing though, I've noticed that if you psi magnet the Din's Fires as soon as the player starts using them, they will be less likely to consider that option. Plus it gives you decent health back. Mixing up how you fast fall and DI back to stage I think can be very effective when trying to dodge the kick. Other than that, someone else might have a better idea.

Also, considering how balanced this game feels (and this post by m2k), I think a secondary should be whoever you feel most comfortable with/interested in. In the long run, that's who you'll end up putting more time into, and thus being better at.

I found a MU where Burst is actually usable, it was ****ing Captain Falcon

I get so unlucky with burst. Like, I'll use it and somehow the opponent's option was frame perfect in that it passed my invincibility, but they didn't get hit by the burst, and I lose the charge.

 

[Fortune]

I found a MU where Burst is actually usable, it was ****ing Captain Falcon

Where do you use it in the matchup?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

It's good when Falcon runs/jumps at you, after a grab, and on wake-up, because all of his good moves extend his hurtbox and his only way to do things is on top of you.

 

[Moth101]

@CatcherAndTheRai one thing that helps in the zelda matchup I think is dash dancing on the ground in front of her. Arial approaches are more predictable and more likely to get Nayru'ed or kicked. Zeldas shuffl sucks so it's pretty obvious when fairs/bairs are coming. If you can bait out Nayru's or a kick then you can punish her pretty heavily. I think in general it's a match up where you want to stay close to them.

Also from downthrow you can get OU upsmashes if they fail to DI properly which kills stupid early on most stages. You can probably get DACUS follow ups at a bit higher percent too if they do DI it but it's not quite high percentage to upthrow.

 

[210stuna]

To get out of a pillar combo from Falco all you have to do is DI and tech roll right?

 

[Prynne]

@ CatcherAndTheRai

5. If your friend is heavy on the Nayru's then shield it if you can and follow it with an up throw. Nayru's has enough end lag for the grab, and you should have sufficient time to combo if she's at low enough percent. Keep the pressure on. If Zelda breaks out of it, bait and try again, but never go straight at her. Chances are that your friend is playing a game of cat and mouse rather than going right at you. And if they realize you aren't approaching and they trap you with Din's, absorb it, but if you miss, get out of there. It's better to take the 6% from hitting the mine than the 11% or so AND the insane knock back it has from the explosion. After a mine has knocked you into the air, you're a sitting duck. Unless they're too far away. Then they'll probably Din's Camp again. In any case, rinse and repeat. If they like to Teledash and Teleburn, utilize the ending lag of a completed teleport, especially from a recovery or the air. You're going to want to grab a lot and aerial combo out of that, and never be a lightning kick's distance away from Zelda while in the air. If she's above 60%, then start baiting smashes on the ground. Stay Grounded if she's above you on a platform, at any time. Never be above a Zelda.
Good luck!

 

[TxZero]

Almost took down the mighty Sethlon at the OKI yesterday.. Ah well, next time, next time.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

It feels so good getting down tap jump DJC, it was soooooooo worth it <3

 

[drummaniac28]

Does anyone have any advice for the Snake MU? A guy in my local scene plays a nasty Snake and consistently 2 stocks me. I think I've only ever won 3 matches against him lol. Here are some things I've noticed from my matches:

-I feel like once I'm able to get in, I can actually combo him really hard, but Snake's stage presence makes it sooo difficult to do that. I've played the matchup enough that I've gotten good at keeping track of all of the explosives, but that doesn't really matter. Approaching from above is really bad against Snake, but it's almost impossible to approach from the front. I've found some success in using PKF and throwing grenades back, but having to avoid the mines forces me to go exactly where he wants me to go, which is up. Any tips for approaching?

- I've been having problems edge-guarding Snake with any consistency because of the dumb up b glider thing. Usually I try to go for the bair spike (probably a little too much) and sometimes I'll get it and other times I won't. Just today I tried experimenting a bit and I think downsmash is probably a better option, but I figured I'd ask anyways to get other's opinions.

I feel like this is one of Lucas' worst matchups, but I really don't want to pick up a secondary just for it, as I think it's doable, just very difficult (and any character other than Lucas is so boring to play). Again any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Throw PK Freeze to get rid of mines. When approaching Snake make sure to space Fair so you hit with the sweetspot of it.

Bair is a great move to use on it, if you aren't comfortable you can try timing/spacing third hit of Dair but it being a meteor makes it not nearly as good. Just get the spacing down for spking with back air and you'll be fine.

Snake isn't really that bad of a matchup because Lucas CAN **** up Snake, you just have to do it carefully.

 

[Fluxx]

I'm trying to DJC side-b, but i keep accidentally using pk thunder, any advice?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Uh... Use a button to jump instead of up?

 

[Fluxx]

Oh, I just assumed you do it the same way you cancel the aerials, with the y->tap jump->input.
I feel stupid now haha

 

[Inserio]

Oh, I just assumed you do it the same way you cancel the aerials, with the y->tap jump->input.
I feel stupid now haha

It's possible to do it that way. I tried practicing it for a while and could get it consistently after the practice, but it still took more effort than I would've liked and I didn't feel like it would flow during a heated battle, so I stuck with the clawing yyb.

 

[GnOME]

It feels so good getting down tap jump DJC, it was soooooooo worth it <3

Just out of curiosity,
tap jump > tap jump > attk cancel
or
x/y > tap jump > attk cancel?

 

[nimigoha]

Okay guys, two things.

One is I've been getting some use out of OUB by using it to escape combos, as it does make you intangible on frame 2 and keeps intangibility during the frame 3 hitbox. It gets people off you really quickly.

Two is about how I don't understand the Nair landing move. Mainly whether its duration will be affected at all if I L-cancel, and will it happen at all if I L-cancel. I've tried to figure it out but can't. Can anyone basically tell me what happens if I land halfway through a Nair and L-cancel?

Cheers.

 

[SillyGoose]

It bothers me that Lucas is wearing Claus's clothes in his special costume. If it was a Masked Man outfit, a la Mother 3, I would always use it. It should at least have Claus's orange hair.

 

[GnOME]

It bothers me that Lucas is wearing Claus's clothes in his special costume. If it was a Masked Man outfit, a la Mother 3, I would always use it. It should at least have Claus's orange hair.

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?ByUserID=5285&Moderated=All

You can use Claus all you like! If you scroll down the list on this link (Mansta8's brawl vaults page) you'll see the PM Lucas alt costume edited to look like Claus. You can easily change it using BrawlCostumeManager or simply drag and drop the Fitlucas06.pac and Fitlucas06.pcs files into the projectm/pf/fighter/lucas folder on your SD card, replacing the existing ones. Hope that helps.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

The alt costume is based off of an actual point in-game when Lucas is impersonating Claus. Not that I wouldn't be thrilled at a recolor with the orange hair and darker jacket, of course.

 

[nimigoha]

Yars great job tonight. Saw you do a lot of DJC Fair, looking tight.

Working in that Tether Magnet was cool too. And saw an OUB as well.

Also fiddled with Nair landing some more, looks to me like the attack is shorter if you L-Cancel.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Yeah, yeah. Thanks, I'm still working on my pressure and staying ON someone, still got plenty of MUs to learn but I'm starting to get a grasp for them.

Guys, how do you do that like... lunging Zair? Like, not the short little air dodge boosted one, but one with some serious momentum, I did it on accident one match and can't do it again and my friend said he saw Neon doing it

 

[drummaniac28]

Yeah, yeah. Thanks, I'm still working on my pressure and staying ON someone, still got plenty of MUs to learn but I'm starting to get a grasp for them.

Guys, how do you do that like... lunging Zair? Like, not the short little air dodge boosted one, but one with some serious momentum, I did it on accident one match and can't do it again and my friend said he saw Neon doing it

Which match did you do it in? I was watching yesterday and I didn't notice anything like that and now I'm curious. Great job btw, definitely took some notes about how to improve my game from watching you. Those magnet pulls look flashy as hell and are a lot more useful than I thought.

 

[drummaniac28]

EDIT: Whoops. sorry for the double post. I was trying to post from my phone and it started acting a little wonky. And I don't post here very often, so I don't see an option to delete the post.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Which match did you do it in? I was watching yesterday and I didn't notice anything like that and now I'm curious. Great job btw, definitely took some notes about how to improve my game from watching you. Those magnet pulls look flashy as hell and are a lot more useful than I thought.

Magnet pull's more a gimmick than anything, and I'd watch other Lucas players before turning to me, haha. The Zair Lunge didn't happen in those matches, it happened off stream.

 

[drummaniac28]

Magnet pull's more a gimmick than anything, and I'd watch other Lucas players before turning to me, haha. The Zair Lunge didn't happen in those matches, it happened off stream.

Still a good option to know about! And I watch a lot of Lucas videos, watching different players always helps me see new options. And about the Zair thing, did you do it after you got hit or just randomly? Cause if you check out this video of Zhime he does Zelda's neutral B after getting hit and it gives him a huge momentum boost, maybe the Zair is the same kinda thing?

 

[_slydz]

Yeah, if you use a momentum changing move, like magent or airdodge>zair, to get out of hitstun, you'll get a boost in the direction you were hit

 

[Fluxx]

How do you deal with ganon? Played one on netplay the other day, didn't do too poorly (got one or two-stocked mostly, won a few) but his side-b's and down-b's gave me a lot of trouble. To counter it I started to pivot grab whenever I saw those moves coming but was there anything else I could do, about those moves and in general in the matchup?

Also, thoughts on Dedede? I have trouble approaching and applying shield pressure without being grabbed. Should I just space my fairs better?

 

[keninblack]

Having fun with Lucas, seems like a great hand warmer character and hell he might become a main.

But quick question. Which DJC's are the most important/required to learn? Or all of them useful?

I have DJC Uair downpact, and DJC PSI Freeze pretty consistent too. Any others I should work on or do all of them have uses?

 

[nimigoha]

DJC Dair's first hit multiple times keep your opponent stunned, but your timing has to be perfect.

DJC Bair comes out late, so using it at almost ground level doesn't really work.

DJC Fair is really fast and fantastic for fadeaway pressure. I think it's the most important DJC.

DJC Nair is just using the first part of the attack. IMO it makes sense to just use a SH Nair instead, because you can hit them with the strong hit a lot easier. Unless you just want to do the weak hits, in which case use Dair.

 

[Plasma]

Yeah, yeah. Thanks, I'm still working on my pressure and staying ON someone, still got plenty of MUs to learn but I'm starting to get a grasp for them.

Guys, how do you do that like... lunging Zair? Like, not the short little air dodge boosted one, but one with some serious momentum, I did it on accident one match and can't do it again and my friend said he saw Neon doing it

Out of hit stun, you jump, air dodge forward and zair quickly, just like mentioned above. It's pretty useful at mid %s as a surprise move IMO.

 

[ita16]

this is random post but whats a good mind game and just a neat trick to throw the opponent off is run, do a dash cancel then fsmash using the c stick