Lucas General Discussion

[SpiderMad]

Using djc pkf for platform autocancels was indeed a very good use of the move. With the big change in djc pkf timing, I imagine that doing it consistently is a lot more difficult now, and perhaps not worth the trouble. I'll play around with it when I play tonight.

The timing change on djc is due to his 2nd jumping gaining more height early right?

Also where you at do you got a Skype or something I've been waiting to do some 3s with you, we'll have to use Superacade

 

[Burnsy]

I was told it was because they gave Lucas the ability to rising dj pkf. Technically, there wasn't even a timing window for djc pkf and now there is (in 2.5 if you pkf'd during your 2nd jump at any time, you would drop immediately). Maybe they achieved that by modifying his 2nd jump, I'm not sure of the specifics.

I don't use Skype currently, but my scene in AZ is pressuring me to get it and so are a few others, so I'll probably cave and get it when I return from Nerd Rage this week. What with the full time summer job, I don't really have any time this week that won't be spent training for that. I'll definitely hit you up when I get back, though.

 

[SpiderMad]

Maybe I wish they'd make it in between what it was before and is now if that's the case.

Once you get Skype and know where everything is concerning the buttons to call people and stuff, to get rid of the ads easily switch your language to Spanish (they only give English users Ads or something). Otherwise they get really annoying, more annoying than everything in Spanish

 

[Burnsy]

You use Chun in Third Strike? Man what a scumbag

 

[SpiderMad]

You use Chun in Third Strike? Man what a scumbag

lol? I don't know how serious you are, but I wanted to play Chun before I even knew what Third Strike was =(. I gotta start somewhere, and I'm not using a Fightstick so I don't plan on using any mid-tiers to beat people who played the game for a decade.

Also liked this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNyD7LUqckg

 

[Burnsy]

I'm not serious, haha. I'm a Chun fan now as well, but I used other characters at the time I was playing 3S. It wasn't until later when I played her in SSFIV that I started to use her a lot. She feels really different to me in 3S though...

Anyways, back to Lucas, I wanted to discuss PK Burst (which I have dubbed "Lagshine") now that we've had a month or so to try it out. I seem to keep finding great uses for it, it could end up as one of my favorite situational tools. What do you guys think? One of the hardest parts for me still is remembering I have it, lol.

 

[GunBlaze]

Anyways, back to Lucas, I wanted to discuss PK Burst (which I have dubbed "Lagshine") now that we've had a month or so to try it out. I seem to keep finding great uses for it, it could end up as one of my favorite situational tools. What do you guys think? One of the hardest parts for me still is remembering I have it, lol.

Non-Lucas player at the place.

PK Burst, like GGXX Burst?

 

[Kally Wally]

Yeah, p. much that. If you already have PK offense charged and hit B, it activates. 10%, low-med knockback, keep it on hit, lose it on whiff/shield.

Burnsy, what kind of uses have you found? I've tried using it in a few different ways, but I haven't had anyone to play with, so I have no idea how to use it against actual people.

 

[Burnsy]

Non-Lucas player at the place.

PK Burst, like GGXX Burst?

Yes, apparently the dev team referred to it as either OU Burst or PK Burst because it shares a few similarities with the common anime fighter mechanic.

For example, It's fast and invincible instantly, making one of its good uses as a "combo breaker", similar to how bursts are used in fighting games. The animation on the move is also reminiscent of a burst, and if you use it at the wrong time it can lead to punishment.

Other than using it to escape follow-ups, I have also found it to be a pretty decent edgeguard tool. I've used it to challenge ledge options, as well as jumping offstage and using it to beat out recovery moves. Another thin I will do is start out a fresh stock and charge my neutral B while I have respawn invincibility. If they get close to me while I'm charging and look like they're going to try to punish me at the end of the charge with a long lasting hitbox, then I'll start to mash for a Burst. The amount of invincibility you get with a new stock was already nearly perfect for doing this, and the Burst should make punishing this even harder and more specific. It seems like on some stages and characters it will actually kill if you hit them when they are offstage, while perhaps being a safer offstage kill move in certain MUS than fair or bair would be.

Edit: Neon pointed out that it also can combo in certain situations where no other move will, since it's so fast

 

[Lukingordex]

Man,I suck so much,I don't even know how to use that burst move properly,I just use it to edgeguard or finish jugglings.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

It's hard to utilize properly.

Half the time I forget I have it, haha

 

[WeenusChu]

Depends on matchups a little bit.
I've been using it with Jump out of Shield. Gets me some good millage.
But there are other interesting applications.
I've been practicing combos with it for after I've gotten a first stock and can start it up.
You can do cool stuff just chaining N-Air and PKB together.
I've also done some pretty cool stuff with Magnet > Jump > PKB.

 

[Burnsy]

The only issue with using burst in combos is that its rarely possible to follow up, unlike pretty much all of Lucas' other moves. It's really bad combo optimization unless you know for sure that its the only move that will be fast enough to combo in a given string. Otherwise you are better of juggling with other moves.

That said, sometimes you can burst>jump>burst, which DOES look pretty sexy. Also, possibly useless.

 

[Lukingordex]

Hey guys,I'm going to have a P:M tourney at the end of september,and those are the allowed stages:

Starters:

Battlefield;
Dream Land 64;
Final Destination;
Fountain of Dreams;
Pokemon Stadium 2;
Smashville;
Yoshi's Story;

Counterpick Stages:

Dracula's Castle;
Green Hill Zone;
Metal Cavern;
Pokemon Stadium 1;
Rumble Falls;
Wario Ware;
Yoshi's Island (Brawl);


What do you guys think about that stage list?

And also,what stages are good for Lucas and what are bad?

 

[SpiderMad]

List looks good

I'd probably stay away from Dreamland/Rumble falls, maybe you could get lucky gimping spacies on Skyworld/WW/MetalCavern (Lucas is iffy on getting gimped too though but he's got the snake). I took a match off Kels with Diddy by going to Skyworld and having the stage chew him up lol. Green hill zone/Ps2 I think is good for everything. You can get locked down on smashville if you're not confident (Marth/CF). I think some Lucases also like Yoshis story but I hate that stage in general. BF benefits Falco in a lot of ways, you'd need to have your projectile platforming mastered (with that said I still think Hammertime gimped mango a lot on BF). Speaking of which lets look at Naerok DJC aerials off from platforms for uhhh the 12th?13th? time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IAYdItVgo3E&t=361

 

[Lukingordex]

Stream:
http://www.twitch.tv/x_revolution

It will happen on september 22nd

If any of my matches gets streamed,please remember: my skills are not close to the good Lucases',but i'll do my best.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I hope it's not strange, but I really like FoD for Lucas. I also think Lylate is a really good stage for him too. I think if I had to chooce stages I'd go to, it'd be FoD, Pokemon Stadiums 2, SSE Jungle, and Norfair. Warioware's nice too, but those bounding boxes are risky.

 

[Sartron]

I hope it's not strange, but I really like FoD for Lucas. I also think Lylate is a really good stage for him too. I think if I had to chooce stages I'd go to, it'd be FoD, Pokemon Stadiums 2, SSE Jungle, and Norfair. Warioware's nice too, but those bounding boxes are risky.

I like Fountain of Dreams as well, but really hate Lylat. I think all stages are good for Lucas, but it's important to properly counterpick against your opponent's character. This can involve removing stages with walls, different sizes, etc. I would call FoD advantageous for Lucas because we can crouch under the moving platforms and use our most powerful kill move: USmash. Also, Lylat makes me feel nauseous because of that background.

 

[Burnsy]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I don't get nauseous easily, either.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Yeah the moving background is a bit much, I'm kind of used to it thanks to having played Brawl as long as I did, but I greatly anticipate a background that's more tame.

 

[Lukingordex]

hmm,I like lylat,I think your guys should focus on the opponent and yourselves instead of focusing on the background

(Try using a BRSTM of a cool music on that stage,it'll probably help)

 

[SpiderMad]

Lylat makes me feel nauseous because of that background.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I don't get nauseous easily, either.

Yeah the moving background is a bit much, I'm kind of used to it thanks to having played Brawl as long as I did, but I greatly anticipate a background that's more tame.

I'm glad you guys feel the same way, I hate that stage soooooooo much all because of it trying to simulate a horrendous space ride while I'm trying to play. Venom did it right, it was straightforward, and not rotating. I'm gonna make it a note to complain about it a lot more than I was. Maybe they should just port Venom's general BG over it: that'd make P:M more like Melee anyways.

 

[Comeback Kid]

I think Lylat would be cool if it just transitioned back and forth between the planet and the empty space background, but not so often so it stays on one for a while before going to the next.

 

[Kally Wally]

2.6b stuff:

Magnet can be wavebounced again.
Also concerning magnet, in 2.6, I could get quite a bit of distance out of PKF -> Magnet, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Actually, it seems to not carry momentum as well in general. Can anyone confirm/deny?

 

[Burnsy]

-Forward Smash non-Offense Up projectile reflection active frames reduced

This strikes me as a weird thing to change

-Lucas's upper body cannot be hit during tether reel-in

My fingers greatly appreciate this

-Down B refresh hits in the air now pulls an aerial opponent down and towards him

You can see this reflected in the hitbox thread: I like this change a lot.

-Down B time to act after absorbing a projectile has been reduced

Nice, but they neglected to mention that absorbing with the aerial version completely halts your momentum.

-Down B can be released during the absorb lag to go into the end animation afterwards, preventing rapid hitting projectiles like Fox's standing laser that can re-hit before the absorb lag ends from being able to trap him in it

I'm glad this was fixed

 

[Hylian]

I played a ton of Lucas dittos at Nerd Rage against every lucas there. Was fun times.

 

[TemPesT-]

can someone PLEASE explain in depth how to perform a DACUS with lucas, for the life of me i cannot get it to work. not even at 1/4th speed.

trying to dash attack with c down and smash up+z for the smash. i'm a fairly technical player, so not being able to do something really irritates me. plz help x.x

 

[Sartron]

-Lucas's upper body cannot be hit during tether reel-in

My fingers greatly appreciate this

Lucas is too stronk now. This is awesome news.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

can someone PLEASE explain in depth how to perform a DACUS with lucas, for the life of me i cannot get it to work. not even at 1/4th speed.

trying to dash attack with c down and smash up+z for the smash. i'm a fairly technical player, so not being able to do something really irritates me. plz help x.x

I mean... I don't know how to really describe it, what I did to get it down was flick the C-stick down, release, and once I felt like it was at neutral again, Up+Attack (I have R set to Attack because I play GnW and ****ing clawing for a DACUS) but Up+Z should def work.

 

[Burnsy]

Setting a trigger or Z to attack instead of using grab on Z increases the window for DACUS by 50%. If you use grab, there is actually a chance to get dash grab instead if you are 1 frame too fast, even if you input everything correctly.

Also don't practice it with slowed time. I've never been able to do it in training's slow mode and I can do it consistently on normal speed.

 

[Oracle]

 

[Lukingordex]

Is this just me or Lucas' air mobility is now slow as **** on that 2.6b version?

edit: nevermind,looks like I was just drunk

 

[Burnsy]

2.6b stuff:
Also concerning magnet, in 2.6, I could get quite a bit of distance out of PKF -> Magnet, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Actually, it seems to not carry momentum as well in general. Can anyone confirm/deny?

I tested it last night and I thought it seemed the same. I missed being able to add down b-reverse to this.

 

[Kally Wally]

There's nothing in the changelog about it, so maybe I'm just crazy.

 

[Burnsy]

Crazy/drunk people, please refer to some combination of either the 2.6 hitbox thread or the change log before overwhelming yourselves with placebo changes

 

[TemPesT-]

eh after about 5 minutse of practice i got it. idk why i couldn't before

 

[Burnsy]

If you were mostly trying it in training's slow mode before, then that's probably the reason.

 

[TemPesT-]

ya, like i said i didnt try long. i thought id get it right away but then thought maybe it worms differently in PM or something.

so is there any general consensus on a good use of Lucas's offensive up neutral b hit box? i havent tested it at all yet vs real opponents, thought it might be a decent oos option which would be nice since lucas doesnt have many good oos options imo.

 

[Burnsy]

Its a faster OoS than djc uair, but not djc nair landing hitboxes. It does provide better coverage than both, however, and the invincibility makes it even better/trickier as an OoS.

 

[TemPesT-]

any other good uses you think? good gimp tool offstage i imagine if you can land it.