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Lucario's Doubles Partners Discussion-6/16: Diddy Kong Export Up. ROB Discussion Now!

LordoftheMorning

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What's up with this thread exactly?

Are we still making exports and having discussions?

I have a lot of good insight on Lucario/Diddy teams after playing 50+ games on AiB's doubles ladder, but I'd rather it not just be lost within the murky depths of this thread after I write it all out.
 

culexus・wau

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**** everyone lets discuss it anyway.

Lucario + Diddy is a **** team.

Bananas give you a free AS

Free Dsmash

Free Fsmash

free aerials sometimes even.

omgggggg.

Diddy is like, one of the best support tanks ever. I think he's better then wario for an aggro luc just because he puts bananas on the field.
 

LordoftheMorning

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Lucario/Diddy Teams

I really didn't like Diddy at first because my partner was a little inconsiderate with the bananas. Once you get used to it, though, you can really start to abuse the bananas yourself. At closer ranges you can banana > fsmash, and at longer ranges, you've got....

AS + Bananas. This is one of the best things this team has to offer. Your opponents will eat SOOOOO many FCAS if you set it up right. The main strategy here is to try and get on the opposite side of the stage and keep your opponents in a pincer between the two of you. Rain down on them with AS while the diddy showers them in bananas, and watch as it destroys them as they trip and die Even if they roll, the size and speed of the AS hitbox does a very good job of techchasing them. With a little prediction, they eat it almost every single time.

Lucario's ability to wall off zones, with large extended hitboxes like Fsmash and AS, works very nicely in conjuction with Diddy's bananas, because you can really control the stage. This team is exceptional at laying on the pressure. Diddy forces them into disadvantageous positions, and Lucario severely limits their safe escape options. Consider an opponent that is tripped inbetween Lucario and Diddy. This guy is in a horrible position. If he rolls toward Lucario, he risks eating an Fsmash. If he rolls backward, Lucario can launch an aura sphere at him, and they almost always will eat it if they try to roll away from it (see above), OR they'll get hit by a smash or grab from diddy. If they get up attack, they'll probably eat an AS anyways, and if they stand up normally, they've got to throw their shield up to avoid an oncoming AS or banana, leaving Diddy with a good opportunity for a grab (which they absolutely love to do after chucking bananas, trust me)

Overall, this team is fairly versatile, with Diddy being able to effectively fight a LOT of Lucario's bad matchups such as GnW, Marth, and perhaps DDD.

Some things you have to watch out for:

Killing can SOMETIMES be a problem. Try to make sure that diddy lives longer than you do, because you'll get a nice aura modifier bonus. Diddy isn't exceptionally heavy, but luckily he has a versatile recovery. Lucario is going to be the one responsible for most of the killing that goes on, ideally. The risky part is that if you get killed before your opponents do, the team suffers greatly in terms of killing power. It is recommended that both members of the team be very good at DI and general survival.

In general, you want to stay OUT of Diddy's zone. Lucario is fairly string/combo-oriented, and eating a stray banana in the middle of a combo really sucks. :/ Staying out of his throwing range is generally a good way to prevent this, however it makes it more difficult for the team to help eachother during edgehogs and 2 person grab-combos because, in general, they are farther apart.

This team combination has a sort of learning curve of its own. Diddy's banana play makes him a sort of independent type of character that would not expect to do amazingly well in doubles. It takes some time to realize how to best adapt to the Diddy style of play, and it generally means you will be playing passive-agressive. When I first tried this out, I hated this team, but now I think it's actually quite complimentary.

Anubis is either difficult to use for this team, or my partner doesn't really understand the principle of the strategy. Diddy generally gets sucked into the fight, because in my observation he is very momentum-based, or perhaps he's not the best planker in the world. I really don't know too much about Anubis for Lucario/Diddy.

One of the best stages for this team, in my opinion, is FD. The stage's size gives diddy the space he needs to set up his bananas without tripping his partner too much. I also find that I myself can use his bananas to great effect on this stage. Japes is a fairly notable counterpick for this team, as Diddy's monkey flip makes him good at recovering against the water, and large blastzones are good for lucario (although it's possible I really like this CP because I sub Falco *shrugs*). Pictochat works decently for some of the same reasons as FD, and frigate, depending on the Diddy's preference, is also a pretty good counterpick.
 

culexus・wau

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Support Diddy is the "better" partner for lucario.

A good stock tanking and supportive diddy will fare better then an aggressive lead diddy, but lucario and diddy can still switch roles.

Diddy is better at saving lucario then lucario is at saving diddy, seriously.

You want diddy to have port 4 most of the time.

Learn the range for tossing FCAS pheres under a running diddy too! **** is a good scare tactic.

This team's main weakness though is winning games best out of 5 I think.

Once you run out of really good stages you're forced to use simpler alternatives. :>
 

Zucco

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The one time I teamed with ADHD we did terrible. Its not that great <_<
 

culexus・wau

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I've seen the team go even with SoCals best :>

you need a lot of synergy to make it work, I think.
 
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Yeah, well, I was still waiting on further instruction from Phil for proper exporting, but never got it... >__> *coughcough*

I'll go ahead and edit the title though. We can continue on like this until Phil says otherwise haha.
 

culexus・wau

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**** Shame inspire quit.


I'm going to work on emulating the rushdown style of his, at least for doubles.
 

culexus・wau

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Inspire quit due to disinterest in the game... or so he told me.

Now he's trying to play blazblue coz his friends are playing it :x
 

iDeo

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Diddy and Lucario

This team is pretty solid in my opinion. The bananas are always good for links chains and rewards with AS, f-smash, d-smash (which is not really used often in singles), etc. In addition Diddy is quite speedy character so he covers up Lucario's disadvantage of speed.

Only thing down for this team is the double edge sword for the bananas which can be handled by the opponents; so this could turn into something pretty bad if ur playing an opponent who is using a character that counters ur own.
 

culexus・wau

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eh, I guess.

The set-up just seems so strong when put up right.

1 stock luc with a 3 stock diddy is just mad scary.
 
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I would go ahead and tell Spire to just play Melee, but that wouldn't be at all contributive to the thread.

Idk, I think Diddy/Lucario is a pretty solid team. Diddy really helps with Lulu's slightly lacking projectile game with his Nanners and peanuts. Not to mention the fact that a slip just might buy you a free USmash/DSmash/FCAS.

And like Flamey said, a disadvantaged Lulu and a full-stocked Diddy is pretty ballin'. Diddy can just Nanner spam and you can finish the job with Throws and Nairs, or you can synergize and pull a Wombo Combo, or at least the closest you can in Brawl. If your opponents have bad DI you can aerial juggle them, and if it's only one left, you can tilt him between you two.

I don't really see how Diddy can be a bad teammate for Lulu. All I'm hearing is that it isn't too great, but I'd like someone to elaborate on that so I can get the other half of the discussion.
 

LordoftheMorning

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Yeah, there really needs to be some justification by the people saying this team is meh.

I already expressed my opinion that the team had learning curve, and that once both players adapt, it becomes highly effective. How would the other side of the debate reconcile that with their position? Did any nay-sayers try this team over a significant length of time or are they speaking from their experience at one or two tournaments?
 
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Exactly.

Guys, what I need here is a handful of intelligent posts from both sides of the arguement to be able to make a useful export.
 
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Well, since this pretty much died down after the other side of the discussion was called out to give their thoughts, I'm just going to go ahead and make the export.

Next discussion: ROB
 

culexus・wau

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maybe you would get discussion if you actually asked for characters people commonly teamed with

Have we even done snake, wario, G&W, pikachu etc yet? :x

anyways never teamed with a ROB ever since ROB players are as rare as ****
 

Popertop

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ROB is *** in doubles.
like major ***

like too **** big ***.

he is good in a couple teams, but he really struggles because of his blind spot below him and he gets the edge guard pretty harsh.
 

Steam

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maybe you would get discussion if you actually asked for characters people commonly teamed with

Have we even done snake, wario, G&W, pikachu etc yet? :x

anyways never teamed with a ROB ever since ROB players are as rare as ****
My perma dubz partner is a ROB main >=(
 

Dark 3nergy

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how do you usually move around the battlefield and combo with him
 

Popertop

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Me?
I shoot a whole bunch of lazers.
then I shoot maybe a gyro
then more lazers
then i fair a little.

I don't know that's an awkward question.

I generally just try to stay away from them,
at ROB's critical spacing where he can really
apply pressure and get lots of damage in.

I usually don't UpB a lot, since it's pretty easy
to run out of fuel and can lead to uncomfortable edge situations,
but if I can get more percent off a combo with it, like in a really
long fair string at mid percents...

oh my god why have i typed this much
I don't know what I'm talking about lol
I'll try and get some doubles vids with my rob soon.
 

Steam

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in a luc RoB team Rob is support tank. be sure to get lucario port priority so RoB can help him out with lasers better if luc gets grabbed. this team can do a conservative anubis pretty well. MK kinda bones this team really hard though =/
 

Popertop

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well, we don't need to feel bad about that, MK wrecks a lot of viable teams like Wario/G&W, teams with a G&W, teams with characters on it that aren't as good as MK.
 

Lucian

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It my personal experence that Lucario and G&W make a really good team. I also like to team up with MK. MK can safe Lucario from being edge graded, and MK domenates the air while Lucario domenates the ground. There an awesome team!
I have teamed up with ROB before and things can get a little hetic if you get caught up in his camp game.
I prefer G&W over ROB in doubles.
Pit and Lucario make a really good team to
 

MythTrainerInfinity

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I just teamed with a really good Olimar yesterday.

We did really bad.

Lucario and Olimar doesn't work, kids.
 

Browny

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I see 2 slow characters who cant reliably take on the enemy 1vs1 as they both need room to camp :/
 

Lucarioowl

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Greetings fellow lucarios, i am just a fellow lucario player looking for any combination strategies with Pit. Did you guys get to Pit as yet if so please link me if not I would like to contribute a bit of info that might help hopefully. Thanks for including my two cents and helping me in return.
 

Kitamerby

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2vs1 the opposing team while Pit planks. :V

Pit's a nice poor-man's Meta Knight when it comes to the Anubis.
 

Lucarioowl

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So straight up Anubis strategy with pit helping with arrows ok I agree to that. Do you think pit should do the 2 vs 1 first so he gets the damage for the Anubis strat then switch with the now overpowered lucario and keep this rotating pattern up? I tried it and it seemed plausable.
 

Kitamerby

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So straight up Anubis strategy with pit helping with arrows ok I agree to that. Do you think pit should do the 2 vs 1 first so he gets the damage for the Anubis strat then switch with the now overpowered lucario and keep this rotating pattern up? I tried it and it seemed plausable.
Lucario's aura doesn't work that way. Lucario's damage is the only damage percentage that matters. You can get pit's damage to 475 and it won't affect Lucario one bit. Pit sucks at 2vs1. Heck, he shouldn't even really help with arrows while planking and should just concentrate on avoiding any and all conflict as the only purpose he really serves is to hold stocks for you.
 
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