Lucario's 3.6b hidden changes

[Poilu]

Am I the only one who feel like there have been some changes on Lucario that weren't written on the changelogs ?
For example, I think that they add hitlag on the super Aura sphere attack. You can try to do it on 3.5 then on 3.6b, and some other attacks don't feel quite the same (Lucario's side B's knockback for example)

Do you guys have any ideas why those weren't written ?
Can we make a list of what you feel has changed but was not announced ?

 

[Misuse]

For the most part, anything that wasn't specifically stated in the lucario change log is normally either a global change, mentioned in the general section, or something that wouldn't change the game at all, I.e. Adding hit lag on spirit bomb- if it hits they're probably dead anyways.


TL:DR check global change log ( you're looking for grab release point changes )

 

[Poilu]

Hitlag make SDI way easier, it's a nerf, but it's so ingisignificant that I barely account it as a nerf. More like a visual update to make the hit looks stronger.

 

[Darkgun]

So a few quick things I've stumbled upon since release...
• While Aura Sphere is charging to full size, it now has a hitbox on every frame, as opposed to every other frame. This is a wonderful change, since it means opponents can't release shield safely while under it's pressure anymore, though once you reach full size they are free to do so with some escape chance. Also means you can get really quick and silly setups with it. More of a quality of life change.
• Force Palm has received a base knockback increase. This now causes the opponent to enter tumble almost immediately, which means that aFP while just above the stage is no longer negative for the first 30%. It also means that in many cases, opponents will travel slightly further from FP, and have a chance to tech since they enter tumble earlier, which means Lucario no longer has a potential frame trap at early percents on the ground.
• Due to a change to the momentum of uSmash, Lucario can now ASC at different points during the animation to rise to different heights. There seem to be three notable positions, with a grounded cancel, an early cancel (which places Lucario high), and a late cancel (which places Lucario just below the opponent, if I recall correctly). This is awesome, since you can now followup uSmash in the air without burning a double jump.

That is all I've found thus far.

 

[UCDGhost]

Personally, the down b seems a bit off. I'm still getting used to the new placement of the sound indicating the invulnerable frames of this move, but there's also something else about it that seems off. I can't put my finger on it, but it feels like it has a longer start up and a shorter amount of invulnerable frames. I'm not sure if that's the case, but the slight changes and the change in the sound placement are actually ruining the timing of my play sometimes.

 

[Akkien]

Personally, the down b seems a bit off. I'm still getting used to the new placement of the sound indicating the invulnerable frames of this move, but there's also something else about it that seems off. I can't put my finger on it, but it feels like it has a longer start up and a shorter amount of invulnerable frames. I'm not sure if that's the case, but the slight changes and the change in the sound placement are actually ruining the timing of my play sometimes.

The cancel window and intangibility in 3.5 is from frame 13 to frame 24, IASA without cancel is on frame 30. In 3.6b it's still the same. The duration may or may not be exactly the same but the IASA frames are.

 

[ruhtraeel]

I'm just going to reiterate the side-B nerf that he got, which is one of the most annoying changes I have experienced going from 3.5 to 3.6.

I'm not sure the backroom even reads these character subforums, but I have no clue why they would increase the knockback.

 

[TheBearsFist]

Non-CommandGrab SideB can no longer be Super'd on the ground. I'm very ok with this.

 

[Poilu]

Iit can. I garantee you.
(If by "Super" you mean using an aura to make it a kill move)

Edit : I read a post on the PMDT saying that there are changes that may be made that aren't written on the changelogs or they are logs that weren't really implemented. For example, ROB's weight didn't change at all while he should have been way heavier to be more easily combo'ed.

So, as expected, those "hidden changes" shouldn't be just assomptions but real ones.

 

[TheBearsFist]

I mean not the command grab just the grounded flame hitbox.

 

[Poilu]

Oh this. Never knew if it was actually a thing. I thought that one of the hitboxes had a wrong KBG value

 

[TheBearsFist]

Nah you used to be able to super it it you didn't get the grab. Not actually that great but I used to do it alot. Don't really miss it but it wasn't listed in the changes.

 

[UCDGhost]

The cancel window and intangibility in 3.5 is from frame 13 to frame 24, IASA without cancel is on frame 30. In 3.6b it's still the same. The duration may or may not be exactly the same but the IASA frames are.

Do you think maybe the duration is changed? Possibly a later start-up or maybe the beginning animation of the move lasts longer than before? It might be in my head, but in 3.5 I would often use it in order to bait an attack or to deceive an approach. Before, I could use it to move through aggressive aerial attacks and counter, or to fake an approach safely. Now however, I noticed myself getting more often hit in the air, as well as during my fake approach, and these hits all occur while I use my down-b, but before it actually reaches intangibility. Like I said, it may be all in my head, but something about the timing feels off.

 

[Akkien]

Do you think maybe the duration is changed? Possibly a later start-up or maybe the beginning animation of the move lasts longer than before? It might be in my head, but in 3.5 I would often use it in order to bait an attack or to deceive an approach. Before, I could use it to move through aggressive aerial attacks and counter, or to fake an approach safely. Now however, I noticed myself getting more often hit in the air, as well as during my fake approach, and these hits all occur while I use my down-b, but before it actually reaches intangibility. Like I said, it may be all in my head, but something about the timing feels off.

Pretty sure it's all in your head, frame data doesn't lie. Even if you're getting hit before intangibility, the startup is the same so better practice your timing and spacing (; (or maybe the people you play are adapting?)

 

[UCDGhost]

Pretty sure it's all in your head, frame data doesn't lie. Even if you're getting hit before intangibility, the startup is the same so better practice your timing and spacing (; (or maybe the people you play are adapting?)

Can't argue with frame data, that's true. And it's completely possible that they are adapting. Guess its time to work on my spacing and timing again . Thanks for the information!

 

[Giygacoal]

Non-CommandGrab SideB can no longer be Super'd on the ground. I'm very ok with this.

I didn't know you could do that originally. I certainly wondered about it but never put it to the test.

 

[Szion]

Um. seems like we cant combo out of grounded UpB cancels anymore. e_e the hell are they doin with this character