AkashSky
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2013
- Messages
- 102
Note, because I am counting the frames by hand, my calculations are prone to error. The error is +/- 1 frame. In addition, I am counting these the moment shield stun has ended. Thus, not all of these moves are safe on all characters when they have frame advantage on your shield. To calculate the time it would take then, you would simply add their frame advantage to the frames it takes to put out these moves.
So, I have been playing around with the debug mode in project M, and I have found the following:
1) Lucario's jump takes 4+/-1 frames to get airborne out of a shield. The earliest I've been able to act of out of a shield is frame 3 after inputting the jump, while the latest has been 5.
So essentially, if you want to do a move out of shield as fast as possible, you just add 3 to how long it normally takes. By doing so I have found that wavedashing/rolling out of shield is generally the best option to get away from your enemy.
Wavedashing out of shield takes a total of 17 frames to perform. Although this seems like alot, you are moving starting on frame 3-5 depending on when you start your air dodge. 17 is just the frame that you are able to act out of the wavedash.
However, if you want to attack out of shield, the best option hands down is down air out of shield. This attack hits on frame 8 (3+5) if executed correctly. In addition, if this attack hits you can follow up with an aggressive side B to get a grab or you can play it safe and retreat by canceling into a double team.
Unfortunately however, downair's hitbox is rather narrow, and can only be used properly if the opponent is right in your face. Close enough to the point where maybe you could shield grab. You can alleviate this by jumping toward the opponent to down air, so that if they spaced to avoid a shield grab the downair can still possibly hit.
Forward Air out of shield is also a good option because the first hit of fair hits on frame 4+/-1. Thus, it is possible to get it out just like a downair. The soonest I've been able to get it out is frame 8 out of shield.
So to summarize, and TLDR;
Neutral air is terrible to do out of shield. It takes way too long to activate, I didn't even bother counting. Back air is alot slower than down air or forward air, but it can be situationally good if the opponent is right behind you. I also didn't count the frame data for spot dodge or roll, but I may be willing to add to this thread depending on feedback.
So, I have been playing around with the debug mode in project M, and I have found the following:
1) Lucario's jump takes 4+/-1 frames to get airborne out of a shield. The earliest I've been able to act of out of a shield is frame 3 after inputting the jump, while the latest has been 5.
So essentially, if you want to do a move out of shield as fast as possible, you just add 3 to how long it normally takes. By doing so I have found that wavedashing/rolling out of shield is generally the best option to get away from your enemy.
Wavedashing out of shield takes a total of 17 frames to perform. Although this seems like alot, you are moving starting on frame 3-5 depending on when you start your air dodge. 17 is just the frame that you are able to act out of the wavedash.
However, if you want to attack out of shield, the best option hands down is down air out of shield. This attack hits on frame 8 (3+5) if executed correctly. In addition, if this attack hits you can follow up with an aggressive side B to get a grab or you can play it safe and retreat by canceling into a double team.
Unfortunately however, downair's hitbox is rather narrow, and can only be used properly if the opponent is right in your face. Close enough to the point where maybe you could shield grab. You can alleviate this by jumping toward the opponent to down air, so that if they spaced to avoid a shield grab the downair can still possibly hit.
Forward Air out of shield is also a good option because the first hit of fair hits on frame 4+/-1. Thus, it is possible to get it out just like a downair. The soonest I've been able to get it out is frame 8 out of shield.
So to summarize, and TLDR;
Neutral air is terrible to do out of shield. It takes way too long to activate, I didn't even bother counting. Back air is alot slower than down air or forward air, but it can be situationally good if the opponent is right behind you. I also didn't count the frame data for spot dodge or roll, but I may be willing to add to this thread depending on feedback.
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