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-Low tiers and their players in today's landscape-

JacK from Canada

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Canada
Hello Smashboards :kirby: the name's JacK and I love melee. Now in May it will mark my third year in this wonderful community, and in this time I have had a thought a nagging question (or questions)

What is the future for the sub top 15 characters? And would I have mained one if the stigma of maining a low tier = you will be stuck in bad limbo for ETERNITY! (probs would of mained a low tier cause loved the characters)

Now on to the topic of this thread,
What are low tiers place in Melee today and in the coming years?

I know that the boards aren't as active as before but I just wanted to here you opinions?


On the topic of
WOULD I HAVE MAINED A LOW TIER?
Ya I probably would have. Like I used to play a lot of Link, Ness and Kirby in my youth, but abandoned them as I got competitive cause people told me to.

Like if I joined before 2012-ish I would have ignored tiers and play my favorite characters
 
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KEYLIME SSB

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
217
Location
Lazytown
My Falco sucks, my Marth is mediocre, and my C. Falcon isn't much. I experimented with a lot of different characters. I finally cemented my self in the Luigi community. His combos just flow together in my mind and play style almost seamlessly, and he really bumped up my mental game. I have also had marginal success with Young link, and I consider him one of my best characters.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
I think low tiers are drastically underrated. Part of that is because everyone assumes any good performances are due to matchup inexperience, and the other part of it is that the characters themselves are really underexplored. If you've been playing Melee for a couple years and main Fox, there's no shortage of examples to pull from to improve. You can learn what to do in any given situation just by watching the top Foxes and mostly just copying what they do. If you main Pikachu, you only have one good Pikachu player to learn from, and because Axe is so high level, he's probably not even dealing with the same issues a lower level Pikachu might deal with. If you main a character like Young Link, you basically have no role models to learn from and without a large group of peers to exchange ideas with, you will inevitably be making tons of inefficient and suboptimal decisions.

From a more general standpoint, I think it's kind of a shame more people don't play low tiers. I think the game is plenty fun with the 8-10 characters that are most common, but I feel like a lot of people don't really express themselves in game the same way they would if they played a less common character where they are forced to innovate more. The most painful example of this difference is when a player using an uncommon character decides to switch to Fox or another popular character, and they end up having the most generic and basic play style imaginable. They almost aren't even playing the game anymore, they're just doing a bunch of Fox things or Sheik things and they occasionally win because they're spamming good options.

The other reason this is a shame is because one reason people give for not playing low tiers is that they want to perform well. While I think it's certainly harder to get a grip on less popular characters because of the lack of footage/peers to discuss with, I think the effect character choice has on performance is overrated, especially at the local level. If you're not planning on putting in tons of work to become top 100, I don't know why you'd consider results when deciding your character. There's no tangible difference between being ranked 500th in the world with Fox or 600th in the world with Young Link. The simple fact that skill levels blend together by the time you're outside the top 100 basically makes it impossible to tell how high you're ranked in the first place.

Not picking a character because they are limited or frustrating or just not fun makes sense, but I think a lot of unpopular characters like Pikachu, Young Link, G&W, Mewtwo, etc. don't fit this description at all. They struggle in certain areas, but so do the top tiers. A new Falco main is going to be just as frustrated with getting gimped as a G&W main is with getting KOed early off the top. The big difference is the Falco believes he can learn ways to not get gimped whereas players who main low tiers (sometimes even TOP TIERS) are the first to blame their character for their loss.

Fox mains never blame their character and while you may argue that's because their character is the best, the effect of this mentality cannot be ignored. If you refuse to blame your character for your losses, then you're more likely to solve the actual problem. If you main Young Link or even a character as good as Samus/Peach, it's incredibly easy to blame your characters weaknesses for your loss and you don't look as hard for solutions or simply can't find them due to confirmation bias. Even low level Fox mains are insistent on learning to consistently ledgedash, which is by far the riskiest technique in the game, yet you look at Samus mains and they don't want to learn her aerial interrupt or Peach mains don't want to learn her variety of tricky airdodges/reverse ledgedashes to get off the ledge.
 
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Altanic

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
156
Location
Lancaster, SC
I wholeheartedly agree with Bones. I find most of the characters to be considerably underrated. I only take tier lists half seriously to be honest, they can be a decent representation of the roster, but they are also built by people who sometimes don't fully understand the game and the potential of each character. I don't care what anyone says about Roy, Mewtwo, Bowser, Kirby, Ness, Pichu, etc. I would say it's very likely that these characters have a lot of untapped potential. And I would agree that oftentimes we just assume that these characters are bad. I would say out of those listed, that Roy, Mewtwo, and Ness are seriously slept on and have more potential than I think we realize.

I also agree that it disappoints me to see good players shift from a "low-tier" main to a high tier just because they think they will be better. To me it seems that most of the time their low-tier actually ends up being better because that character fits their playstyle better, or they have a stronger understanding of that characters options. If you play a high tier because you genuinely enjoy the character and the way they play I think that's totally fine. It just kind of saddens me sometimes to see new players just jump on a high tier and completely dismiss the rest of the roster because they think winning is more important than enjoying the game.
 

JacK from Canada

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Canada
I wholeheartedly agree with Bones. I find most of the characters to be considerably underrated. I only take tier lists half seriously to be honest, they can be a decent representation of the roster, but they are also built by people who sometimes don't fully understand the game and the potential of each character. I don't care what anyone says about Roy, Mewtwo, Bowser, Kirby, Ness, Pichu, etc. I would say it's very likely that these characters have a lot of untapped potential. And I would agree that oftentimes we just assume that these characters are bad. I would say out of those listed, that Roy, Mewtwo, and Ness are seriously slept on and have more potential than I think we realize.

I also agree that it disappoints me to see good players shift from a "low-tier" main to a high tier just because they think they will be better. To me it seems that most of the time their low-tier actually ends up being better because that character fits their playstyle better, or they have a stronger understanding of that characters options. If you play a high tier because you genuinely enjoy the character and the way they play I think that's totally fine. It just kind of saddens me sometimes to see new players just jump on a high tier and completely dismiss the rest of the roster because they think winning is more important than enjoying the game.
What do you and Bones0 think about Mid tiers? Like Link and DK???
:linkmelee::dkmelee:
 

JacK from Canada

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Canada
It just kind of saddens me sometimes to see new players just jump on a high tier and completely dismiss the rest of the roster because they think winning is more important than enjoying the game.

That's me when I started I loved Link, YL, Ness, Kirby etc. but dropped them for Sheik because people told me to and because I saw none at tournaments. IDK my enjoyments kinda going down
 

Altanic

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
156
Location
Lancaster, SC
What do you and Bones0 think about Mid tiers? Like Link and DK???
:linkmelee::dkmelee:
Have you seen Saus? His Link is awesome. I think Link and DK are pretty untapped. You see Young Links do pretty well, so I don't see why Link couldn't. I spent like 2 days labbing Link stuff and then went against some friends with him and he's got some really neat tricks with bomb placement and boomerang spacing.
DK has 0-death chaingrabs on spacies, so he's got that going for him. I find his neutral to be hard to play but I think DK can definitely be scary in the right hands.

That's me when I started I loved Link, YL, Ness, Kirby etc. but dropped them for Sheik because people told me to and because I saw none at tournaments. IDK my enjoyments kinda going down
Hmm, that is unfortunate. I personally say just play whoever you want to play, and whoever gives you the most enjoyment, regardless of what people say. I mean who knows, you could be that one guy who shows up everyone with a character they used to think was bad. I personally don't think that there are truly bad characters. I think it's all about the way you play the character, not the character themself. I say listen to yourself and play who you like. I used to get **** from people when I'd go Roy against spacies, until they get down tilt chaingrabbed to fSmash and die.
 
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