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Low Gear & High Gear

krazyzyko

Smash Champion
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Aug 12, 2005
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High Gear (HG) - When you side B and hold forward, the kart travels faster causing more knockback and 7% damage.

Low Gear (LG) - When you side B and don't hold any direction afterwards, the kart travels slow, causing less knockback and 5% damage.

-It's possible to shift from LG to HG but not vice versa.
- You can LG > up B hammer Mario @ 150% dmg.
- Turbo dash and side B always starts at LG unless you hold forward after the initial dash.
- When you land from the air with side B, the kart is automatically in LG unless you input forward after landing.

By combining both gears Jr is able to combo out of side B at rational percentages with more options.
 
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pikazz

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this is pretty known to Jr to those who have played him since launch.

however, its pretty useful to combine these for those who is new to Jr.
- LG is usually better but HG do have its useages
- if the opponent is spotdodge happy on your SideB, you can actually adjust the HG and LG so it will completely throw off the opponent.
- Mixing up is a legit Mindgame thing to do
- at really high %, HG is better for setting up to UpB/UAir kill while LG do hit stronger yet makes it harder
- when you start doing SideB, it always start at HG! like if someone rolls behind you as you start with SideB. if you hit that moment, its HG damage
 
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The_ToolBag

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Yeah, Honestly, I didnt know many people knew about this. Its really cool about some of its implementations. Like the fact that Jump-canceling is the fastest way to achieve (HG) and that you can really sike out your opponents, but starting in (LG) to bait the drop of their shield, and then jump to (HG).

Does anyone know if being in high gear allows for faster spinnouts? when I jump cancel I feel like I can spinout almost instantly.

Also, does anyone know the spinout sliding logic, whether you slide or spinnout in place, and how to achieve these. I did some testing but it all seems inconclusive to me so far
 

pikazz

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Yeah, Honestly, I didnt know many people knew about this. Its really cool about some of its implementations. Like the fact that Jump-canceling is the fastest way to achieve (HG) and that you can really sike out your opponents, but starting in (LG) to bait the drop of their shield, and then jump to (HG).

Does anyone know if being in high gear allows for faster spinnouts? when I jump cancel I feel like I can spinout almost instantly.

Also, does anyone know the spinout sliding logic, whether you slide or spinnout in place, and how to achieve these. I did some testing but it all seems inconclusive to me so far
I thought it was dependable if you holding to the opposite direction when you will spin or not together with what speed you had
 

UberMadman

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I figured this out myself but I've been really bad about implementing it into my play. I always just use Low Gear, even in situations where I'd probably get better benefit from High Gear. Playing Jr. is a bit technical at times, and I need to work better on fully utilizing all the tools in his kit.
 

Metalex

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The_ToolBag The_ToolBag
The spinouts feel the same to me. The sliding depends on specific heights which I don't know how to measure.
It seems very hard to measure, but if you do a spinout from the ledge onto the stage as low as possible you will slide the maximum possible length so to me it seems like the closer to the ground you are when you start the aerial spinout the further you will slide.
 

divade

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Isn't low gear and high gear backwards?
Low gear technically means you would drive slower (with more power but that's irrelevant) .
 
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krazyzyko

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Isn't low gear and high gear backwards?
Low gear technically means you would drive slower (with more power but that's irrelevant) .
I drive stick shift so I named low gear because it has more torque, the engine is louder and it helps the car move from a stationary position quicker with first gear rather than 2nd or 3rd. But if it's more fitting or less confusing to exchange the names, I'll be more than happy to change it.
 

divade

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I drive stick shift so I named low gear because it has more torque, the engine is louder and it helps the car move from a stationary position quicker with first gear rather than 2nd or 3rd. But if it's more fitting or less confusing to exchange the names, I'll be more than happy to change it.
I would vote switching, on the phrase "kick it in high gear" would mean speed up, honestly though the kart doesn't have gear settings (it would be really cool if the faster hit did less knockback and damage though).
 

Conn1496

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Something I'd like to point out that hasn't been noted yet is the other two notable speeds you can hit at between the two gears. -and yes, there are two extra notable speeds between the two gears, but it's a little more complicated than just swapping between four possible speeds.

I dunno how important this is, probably very minorly, if not at all, but it's interesting to note, and very well could come up later in the meta.

Just to start off, I want to point out that a low gear dash does 4%, where a high gear one does 7%. Already I'm betting some of you can guess what the two other notable speeds are, and you'd be right, they're the two speeds where dash does 5% and 6%, respectively.

Now the difference between 4% and 7% dashes is already miniscule - I can't think of any combos or set-ups where a 4% dash can't take the place of a 7% dash at later %s and vice versa - but the extra speeds might at very least be useful for milking that extra 1-2% from your dash combos and still nailing it where a 7% dash might not hit.
I personally couldn't find any specific instances where a 5/6% dash could hit where a 7% couldn't (In order to milk extra damage, or kill slightly earlier.), but I'll put that down to me being bad at labbing anyway.

The other thing I should note is that even though there are 4 speeds, there are still only 2 gears (To my knowledge.). Let me repeat that, because it's important to how this tech works - there are only 2 known gears between 4 damage outputs. -and this causes a problem, because it makes such a minor tech a very difficult thing to pull off.

You basically have a very precise window between the two gears to hit one of two of these extra speeds, so accuracy is kinda crucial. That being said... You can tweak your speed to stay between the two gears... Yep, this is getting needlessly complicated...

I just want to point out that from this point forth, I don't really want to be using the "gear" term, since it's a bit of a misnomer, but I will be referring to 4% dash and 7% dash as Lowest and Top speed (LS and TS for speed's sake.), respectively.

From LS, the only real option seems to be to accelerate right to TS, and while that feels like the case in 9 out of 10 cases, it's just absolutely not true. You can actually stop accelerating at a 5% or 6% dash and carry on speeding right on through your opponent. I don't know the amount of frames it takes to accelerate from LS to TS, but it's an incredibly small gap, like... -a few frames small, so stopping acceleration at 5% or 6% is absoloutely needlessly complicated.

The other thing to note is that deceleration is very much possible! -you just can't control it... It happens naturally (and painfully slowly), and you can check it out yourself easily in practice mode (Especially with the time slowed down.). Enter FD or an Omega, spawn 2/3 CPUs and then accelerate to TS, and then let go of the input. You'll actually do less damage as time goes on. I was even able to hit the first CPU for 6%, the next by 5%, and then the third, I accelerated back up to TS for 7%.

I don't know if any of this information is different in the Wii U version (I'm assuming not.) but it's worth looking into anyway.

The way I understand the kart's speed, and ergo it's damage, is that you're effectively swapping between a binary input that moves your speed along a scale. It's not a definitive 0 or 1 move, it's not limited to LS and TS, but the inputs you can perform are basically limited to trying to hit these speeds.

It's not unknown for moves to do fractions of %s, and this one is no exception. -and again, you can test this yourself by simply equipping yourself with extra damage in customs. With a +200 attack stat, your LS is 9%, whereas your TS is 14%, giving you an effective 4 extra notable speeds to work with, and you can scale your speed to all of them, the windows for such are just more precise since the scale is still limited by your LS and TS, and you're now splitting 6 possible damage outputs between it, instead of the usual 4.

So, in a sense, saying the move has a "Low Gear" and a "High Gear" isn't too much of a stretch, but it's not strictly true. It should just be noted that as a player, you're controlling the move's acceleration between two speeds that do different damage outputs, and basically nothing else, so...

Well, that's all my input on the subject. I'm sure it's all very dull and such, but the way I see it is that any and all information is welcome and potentially valuable - plus it really brings some insight to the inner workings of the move, which I'm sure someone will find interesting.

TL;DR: There are unsurprisingly more than two speeds this move can hit at and they do incremental damage similar to which is seen in charge moves such as Samus' notorious Charge Shot, but there are still only two states of acceleration you can be in and you control those rather than the move's actual speed. -it's also incredibly hard to control hitting between the two extremes since the lowest and highest speeds are literally frames of acceleration apart.
 
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krazyzyko

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Conn1496 Conn1496 - That's interesting. But I'm a bit skeptical. Wouldn't those different %'s be the effect of a stale(er) high gear?

According to the video below moves are always fresh in training mode.

So, if you manage to achieve more damage percentages out of side B there, then I'm a believer.
I won't be able to play for a couple of days so that's why I'm asking you (or any voluntary for that matter) to test this for me.
 

Conn1496

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Conn1496 Conn1496 - That's interesting. But I'm a bit skeptical. Wouldn't those different %'s be the effect of a stale(er) high gear?

According to the video below moves are always fresh in training mode.

So, if you manage to achieve more damage percentages out of side B there, then I'm a believer.
I won't be able to play for a couple of days so that's why I'm asking you (or any voluntary for that matter) to test this for me.
I did testing in training where staleness doesn't exist when I made the post, so yeah - I made sure not to make that mistake with move staleness.

I took a lot of time into exploring the move, so from what I understand, I didn't really make any mistakes in my big post regarding it. 5 and 6% dashes are very much possible, just not particularly consistent unless you're really good with it.

-also, my note about being able to hit 6%, 5% and then 7% all in one dash on 3 different targets (Where all hits would have the same staleness - as far as I know.) basically debunks any idea that it was solely down to staleness.
 

BelieveInParappa

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I've never used low gear for anything; I always do the faster speed and I find success that way since it gives opponents less time to shield the kart. However, thanks for informing me about the lower knockback on low gear. Now I know to use that speed on absurdly high percents (about 120% or above on middleweights) where side-b > hammer doesn't work anymore.

At that point I usually just go for fair/bair/ftilt/smash kills, but this is still good to keep in mind.
 
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Conn1496

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I've never used low gear for anything; I always do the faster speed and I find success that way since it gives opponents less time to shield the kart. However, thanks for informing me about the lower knockback on low gear. Now I know to use that speed on absurdly high percents (about 120% or above on middleweights) where side-b > hammer doesn't work anymore.

At that point I usually just go for fair/bair/ftilt/smash kills, but this is still good to keep in mind.
Well, there's a fairly small gap between KO confirms from Side-B at Top Speed so it might not be a huge deal.

Against Mario from default practice position:
  • Top Speed Kart > Hammer starts KOing at roughly 82%, whereas Kart > U-Air only starts KOing at about 147%.
  • At Low Speed, you start KOing with Up-B Hammer from Kart at about 110%, which is also a speed you can KO at from Top Speed.
  • But, Top Speed Hammer combo starts being unreliable around 130%, so you're only really missing about 20% in this MU by not using the Low Speed, but it could be wildly different for others.
It's up to you if the arguably small gap is worth it. Regardless, I'd say the Low Speed makes for a good mix-up (-and suddenly speeding up makes for an even better one.) since it keeps your opponent on their toes about when to shield (-and you can jump away if you see your opponent shielding early.), so I wouldn't leave it totally out of mind. Plus, as you'd expect it works wonders for keeping your early Kart combos working for a little extra.

It's also a good thing to note that you can't accelerate in mid-air, so if you use Side-B in the air, the moment you land, you're at Low Speed (4%). The acceleration on the move is super-fast, so you'll barely notice it, but it's something to keep in mind, either way.

Also, the move starts at 5% Speed, but quickly decelerates to 4, which is another thing you'll barely notice, but again, something to keep in mind.
 
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