1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

  3. Use the Smashboards Store to get awesome Smash stuff and support the site, like a Nintendo Controller or the Wii U - Gamecube adaptor ! Check out the inventory in our store and support Smashboards with your purchase today!

Lonely PEEF's Data Archive - Blizzard Freezing Info Added

Discussion in 'Ice Climbers' started by PEEF!, Apr 24, 2010.

  1. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    I like to test things that are worth testing. I've been doing tests in my metronome thread but I want to keep that more on topic. Here you can request tests be done, find %'s for things, whatever.


    HANDING OFF: How much does Nana usually headbutt before F-throwing?


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    DI: How much does your opponents DI matter when getting Dthrow>usmashed and when will it kill?

    Conclusion: Obviously every character dies at different %s from Nana's Usmash, but interestingly some themes are universal. It really makes basically no difference wether your opponent imputs no DI, DI up, or DI down. DI'ing up can get them killed 1 or 2% earlier, and DI'ing down MIGHT let them live 1% longer. DI away is the only DI that has any real effect. For Fox, it allows him to live 11% longer on FD than he could with neutral DI (122% vs 111%). Jiggs lives until 77% with proper DI, and dies at 70% when not DI'ing. It seems to be a simple formula. Take the % they die at with no DI, and add 10% of that number to it to find about the max damage they could possibly live through. I plan on getting these numbers for most viable characters.

    Which Kills Earlier??

    Headbutt > Uthrow > Charge Usmash vs. Headbutt > Blizzard > Dthrow > Fsmash

    When does Nana's Blizzard freeze the opponent into an iceblock?

     
  2. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,919
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    Ahhh random data testing. for some reason if you b-throw you can hand-off to bowser and I think gannon, I've noticed that nana will b-throw a lot afterwards is that random?
     
  3. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    She won't bthrow any more often after she does that.

    However, I'll test the bthrow handoff on ganon...
     
  4. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,919
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    I know she shouldn't but she at least for me b-throws a lot more.
     
  5. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    =ddddddddddddddd
     
  6. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,919
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    I don't think so. I'm sorry I just thought you would be sad if no one posted anything.

    But if you wanted I believe I think you'd argee it would be useful to test the percents are chain throws and stuff.But that's you if you want or are bored.
     
  7. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    Well it will serve me and anyone else who wants info as an archive.
     
  8. Vanitas

    Vanitas
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    812
    Location:
    Final Destination
    well just for my curiousity's sake, what percent does Marth die off the top with all those DI's for Dthrow uncharged fresh Usmash?
     
    #8 Vanitas, Apr 28, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015
  9. smakis

    smakis
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    747
    peach would be good to know, not fun if you manage to get a grab and usmash too early
     
  10. Smasher89

    Smasher89
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,898
    Location:
    Sweden
    Check Donkey Kong, he survives probably the longest time in the game, If not anyone like ganon/yoshi beats him...
     
  11. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    I'll get all these 2maro.

    BTW, Falcon lives the longest vertically of anyone.
     
  12. Magus420

    Magus420
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Messages:
    4,541
    Location:
    Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
    As long as you go by the damage after the hit, it will be a very similar multiplier across the cast for that particular attack and DI/trajectory. Fully charging a smash multiplies the damage by 1.367 (which is why you want to look at the damage afterwards), and the knockback growth (the part of knockback that's based on their total damage) by the same or something close to it. Going by the percents after the hit, the fully charged version might kill anywhere between like 1.25x-1.35x sooner. There's probably some rounding somewhere or some unknown factor which is why it can vary that much between attacks and trajectories.
     
  13. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    Ohhh, so damage dealt counts even towards the hit that caused it? So the increase in damage caused by charging helps them go even further, ah.

    Well I guess I'll just have to test all of the relevant characters if there is no simple formula =]
     
  14. Fluffy G

    Fluffy G
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Hopewell Junction
    can you test the % of the direction nana throws when shes not near the ledge? or is it purely random for random sakes lol
     
  15. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    When Marth dies on FD from Dthrow -> Nana's fresh, uncharged Usmash

    No DI -- DI Away
    -------------------------------------------
    90 -- 100

    When Peach dies on FD from Dthrow -> Nana's fresh, uncharged Usmash

    No DI -- DI Away
    -------------------------------------------
    82 -- 90

    It seems that just headbutt> uthrow full charge usmash kills off the top at about 10% earlier than headbutt>blizzard>headbutt>dthrow usmash. The charging really means alot.

    The best option however to kill off the top at the earliest possible % is headbutt>dthrow>full charge usmash. The dthrow tacks on 6 more damage, but it is much harder to time.

    Nana's throw choice not near a ledge on FD.

    Direction - #Instances
    ----------------------------
    Dthrow - 27 iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii ii
    Uthrow - 26 iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii i
    Bthrow - 29 iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii iiii
    Fthrow - 25 iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii

    Yep, her throws are as random as it gets.
     
  16. Dogysamich

    Dogysamich
    Expand Collapse
    The Designated Hype Man!

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,142
    Location:
    Warner Robins, Georgia

    I mean, I literally come in here from time to time to ask this, but because you're taking requests.

    Aside from the handoff, is there any way physically possible that the ICs can CG Doc? (Assuming Doc DIs and jumps and all that stuff)
     
  17. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    If you know exactly what they are going to do, no.

    However, I have caught doc's by suprise with the Dthrow>jab>regrab CG. It is really sketchy, but it works great against characters that always get out. Most doc and luigis, docs, puffs, ect never have to try to get out of CGs because its so easy to get out. IC players know that you know how to get out. So what I do sometimes is popo dthrow>nana jab right as you are on the way up, then popo regrab. Works great as a suprise.

    Haha, but you can get out of it just like all the other ones if you expect it, so your answer is still no haha.
     
  18. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,919
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    hey peef are you still studying this junk? but i'm going to link this to a thread i'm working on. Again great stuff here
     
  19. Wobbles

    Wobbles
    Expand Collapse
    Desert Eskimo

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,883
    Location:
    Gilbert, AZ

    Any idea what percents and what part of the blizzard hitbox turns people into a giant ice cube? I've always wondered and I'd rather be prepared to jump high and f-air them out of the pop-up rather than dash in beneath them and get nothing afterwards.
     
  20. Kyu Puff

    Kyu Puff
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,252
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I'm pretty sure it's a random occurrence, and has some probability of happening that scales with the opponent's percentage.

    Every 5 frames a hitbox appears by his mouth/hand and flows outwards. The hitboxes might get weaker the longer they stay out, which might effect the probability of the other player freezing, but it's something you'd really need AR to test.
     
  21. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    I will do my best to test that today.

    I am quite sure of a couple things...

    1) There is a damage at which it can never happen. I do not know if this is a universal damage across characters though, or if fall speed/weight has something to do with it.

    2) There is a damage at which it MUST happen. Again, I do not know if this is universal.

    I will do my best to solve these and other mysteries about the Bliz.
     
  22. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    Just started my work on Blizzard stuff today. Trust me it's weird. I'll make a full post when im done.
     
  23. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,919
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    I bet ice blocks would have the same freezing abilty. maybe the quad block would increase our chances.
     
  24. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    Alright so basically there is a sliding scale of freezability that begins at point blank range and ends at the tippy tip of the blizzard.

    At point blank range, the blizzard freezes the opponent into a block based on weight, and nothing else as far as I can tell.

    Here are the lowest possible %'s that someone can get frozen at. Any % below this, and you run no risk of freezing them.

    Jiggs: 51
    Fox: 56
    M2: 60
    Falcon: 66
    Ganon: 67

    At the very tip of the blizzard, the opponent will never freeze at any relevant %. About halfway in the blizzard's range, people freeze around 100. I would get more exact info, but honestly it really doesn't help because you just can't judge those numbers exactly, because just a tiny bit closer and it will freeze, but if they are in a different part of their standing animation and it won't. This post gives you the basics, but the best thing to do is understand that people can be frozen above 50-70%, but by hitting with the tip, you can prevent freezing altogether, but the blizzard will still hit them upwards. Just learn the spacing and take a guess.

    Also: These tests were done only with fresh blizzards. Weakened blizzards freeze at higher %'s. In fact, a blizzard weakened only one hit will not freeze Mewtwo at 999% at the tip.
     
  25. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,919
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    so don't expect freezing at 60 is a good guideline maybe 70% due to gannon/bowser and how it rarly freezes at lower percents.

    Hey PEEf thanks.


    Hmm What if we make this the place where we spitball info together? We both know you'd keep adding info and it would hype this thead up.
     
  26. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    This is where I have been spitballing info. One stickied data thread would be good.

    Does anyone have any other questions about the blizzard? Or anything else?
     
  27. Kyu Puff

    Kyu Puff
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,252
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    D-throw cg percentages on every character -- it would probably be impossible to test by yourself, but I think it's some of the most important information that nobody has ever bothered to research.

    Also ICG, I was thinking more of a huge, thorough guide than a spitball...
     
  28. PEEF!

    PEEF!
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,201
    I figured out that if Link DI's away, you can dthrow chaingrab until like 100+ with WD>grab.
     

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)

We know you don't like ads
Why not buy Premium?