Lonely PEEF's Data Archive - Blizzard Freezing Info Added

PEEF!

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#1
I like to test things that are worth testing. I've been doing tests in my metronome thread but I want to keep that more on topic. Here you can request tests be done, find %'s for things, whatever.


HANDING OFF: How much does Nana usually headbutt before F-throwing?


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DI: How much does your opponents DI matter when getting Dthrow>usmashed and when will it kill?

Conclusion: Obviously every character dies at different %s from Nana's Usmash, but interestingly some themes are universal. It really makes basically no difference wether your opponent imputs no DI, DI up, or DI down. DI'ing up can get them killed 1 or 2% earlier, and DI'ing down MIGHT let them live 1% longer. DI away is the only DI that has any real effect. For Fox, it allows him to live 11% longer on FD than he could with neutral DI (122% vs 111%). Jiggs lives until 77% with proper DI, and dies at 70% when not DI'ing. It seems to be a simple formula. Take the % they die at with no DI, and add 10% of that number to it to find about the max damage they could possibly live through. I plan on getting these numbers for most viable characters.

When Marth dies on FD from Dthrow -> Nana's fresh, uncharged Usmash

No DI -- DI Away
-------------------------------------------
90 -- 100
PEEF! said:
When Peach dies on FD from Dthrow -> Nana's fresh, uncharged Usmash

No DI -- DI Away
-------------------------------------------
82 -- 90
Which Kills Earlier??

Headbutt > Uthrow > Charge Usmash vs. Headbutt > Blizzard > Dthrow > Fsmash

PEEF! said:
It seems that just headbutt> uthrow full charge usmash kills off the top at about 10% of their damage earlier than headbutt>blizzard>headbutt>dthrow usmash with most characters. The charging really means alot. On Falcon for example, the Usmash charge version kills at 95% with no DI. The blizzard version doesn't kill until 105%.

The best option however to kill off the top at the earliest possible % is headbutt>dthrow>full charge usmash. The dthrow tacks on 6 more damage, but it is much harder to time.
When does Nana's Blizzard freeze the opponent into an iceblock?

PEEF said:
Alright so basically there is a sliding scale of freezability that begins (and is strongest) at point blank range and ends at the tippy tip of the blizzard (where it will basically NEVER freeze).

At point blank range, the blizzard freezes the opponent into a block based on weight, and nothing else as far as I can tell.

Here are the lowest possible %'s that someone can get frozen at. Any % below this, and you run no risk of freezing them.

Jiggs: 51
Fox: 56
M2: 60
Falcon: 66
Ganon: 67

At the very tip of the blizzard, the opponent will never freeze at any relevant %. About halfway in the blizzard's range, people freeze around 100. I would get more exact info, but honestly it really doesn't help because you just can't judge those numbers exactly, because just a tiny bit closer and it will freeze, but if they are in a different part of their standing animation and it won't. This post gives you the basics, but the best thing to do is understand that people can be frozen above 50-70%, but by hitting with the tip, you can prevent freezing altogether, but the blizzard will still hit them upwards. Just learn the spacing and take a guess.

Also: These tests were done only with fresh Nana blizzards. Weakened blizzards freeze at higher %'s. In fact, a blizzard weakened only one hit will not freeze Mewtwo at 999% at the tip.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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#2
Ahhh random data testing. for some reason if you b-throw you can hand-off to bowser and I think gannon, I've noticed that nana will b-throw a lot afterwards is that random?
 

PEEF!

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#3
Ahhh random data testing. for some reason if you b-throw you can hand-off to bowser and I think gannon, I've noticed that nana will b-throw a lot afterwards is that random?
She won't bthrow any more often after she does that.

However, I'll test the bthrow handoff on ganon...
 

Vanitas

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#8
well just for my curiousity's sake, what percent does Marth die off the top with all those DI's for Dthrow uncharged fresh Usmash?
 
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Magus420

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#12
Hm. I could figure this out but maybe you'll know.

How much "effective extra damage" does charging a smash like Nana's Usmash or Fsmash add? What I'm trying to say is...Nana's uncharged Usmash kills Jiggs at like 77 with good DI. If it is charged, it will kill at like 62 or something like that. That would be an effective extra damage of 15, because the extra knockback equals the addition of about 15 damage. Is this number (as a percentage of the character's total damage) consistent across characters? Across smashes?

Answer in Lonely PEEF's Data Archive if you have any idea.
As long as you go by the damage after the hit, it will be a very similar multiplier across the cast for that particular attack and DI/trajectory. Fully charging a smash multiplies the damage by 1.367 (which is why you want to look at the damage afterwards), and the knockback growth (the part of knockback that's based on their total damage) by the same or something close to it. Going by the percents after the hit, the fully charged version might kill anywhere between like 1.25x-1.35x sooner. There's probably some rounding somewhere or some unknown factor which is why it can vary that much between attacks and trajectories.
 

PEEF!

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#13
As long as you go by the damage after the hit, it will be a very similar multiplier across the cast for that particular attack and DI/trajectory. Fully charging a smash multiplies the damage by 1.367 (which is why you want to look at the damage afterwards), and the knockback growth (the part of knockback that's based on their total damage) by the same or something close to it. Going by the percents after the hit, the fully charged version might kill anywhere between like 1.25x-1.35x sooner. There's probably some rounding somewhere or some unknown factor which is why it can vary that much between attacks and trajectories.
Ohhh, so damage dealt counts even towards the hit that caused it? So the increase in damage caused by charging helps them go even further, ah.

Well I guess I'll just have to test all of the relevant characters if there is no simple formula =]
 

PEEF!

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#15
well just for my curious sake, what percent does Marth die off the top with all those DI's for Dthrow uncharged frese Usmash?
When Marth dies on FD from Dthrow -> Nana's fresh, uncharged Usmash

No DI -- DI Away
-------------------------------------------
90 -- 100

peach would be good to know, not fun if you manage to get a grab and usmash too early
When Peach dies on FD from Dthrow -> Nana's fresh, uncharged Usmash

No DI -- DI Away
-------------------------------------------
82 -- 90

Ohhh, so damage dealt counts even towards the hit that caused it? So the increase in damage caused by charging helps them go even further, ah.

Well I guess I'll just have to test all of the relevant characters if there is no simple formula =]
It seems that just headbutt> uthrow full charge usmash kills off the top at about 10% earlier than headbutt>blizzard>headbutt>dthrow usmash. The charging really means alot.

The best option however to kill off the top at the earliest possible % is headbutt>dthrow>full charge usmash. The dthrow tacks on 6 more damage, but it is much harder to time.

can you test the % of the direction nana throws when shes not near the ledge? or is it purely random for random sakes lol
Nana's throw choice not near a ledge on FD.

Direction - #Instances
----------------------------
Dthrow - 27 iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii ii
Uthrow - 26 iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii i
Bthrow - 29 iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii iiii
Fthrow - 25 iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii iiiii

Yep, her throws are as random as it gets.
 

Dogysamich

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#16
I mean, I literally come in here from time to time to ask this, but because you're taking requests.

Aside from the handoff, is there any way physically possible that the ICs can CG Doc? (Assuming Doc DIs and jumps and all that stuff)
 

PEEF!

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#17
I mean, I literally come in here from time to time to ask this, but because you're taking requests.

Aside from the handoff, is there any way physically possible that the ICs can CG Doc? (Assuming Doc DIs and jumps and all that stuff)
If you know exactly what they are going to do, no.

However, I have caught doc's by suprise with the Dthrow>jab>regrab CG. It is really sketchy, but it works great against characters that always get out. Most doc and luigis, docs, puffs, ect never have to try to get out of CGs because its so easy to get out. IC players know that you know how to get out. So what I do sometimes is popo dthrow>nana jab right as you are on the way up, then popo regrab. Works great as a suprise.

Haha, but you can get out of it just like all the other ones if you expect it, so your answer is still no haha.
 

Wobbles

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#19
Any idea what percents and what part of the blizzard hitbox turns people into a giant ice cube? I've always wondered and I'd rather be prepared to jump high and f-air them out of the pop-up rather than dash in beneath them and get nothing afterwards.
 

Kyu Puff

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#20
I'm pretty sure it's a random occurrence, and has some probability of happening that scales with the opponent's percentage.

Every 5 frames a hitbox appears by his mouth/hand and flows outwards. The hitboxes might get weaker the longer they stay out, which might effect the probability of the other player freezing, but it's something you'd really need AR to test.
 

PEEF!

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#21
I will do my best to test that today.

I am quite sure of a couple things...

1) There is a damage at which it can never happen. I do not know if this is a universal damage across characters though, or if fall speed/weight has something to do with it.

2) There is a damage at which it MUST happen. Again, I do not know if this is universal.

I will do my best to solve these and other mysteries about the Bliz.
 

PEEF!

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#22
Just started my work on Blizzard stuff today. Trust me it's weird. I'll make a full post when im done.
 

PEEF!

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#24
Alright so basically there is a sliding scale of freezability that begins at point blank range and ends at the tippy tip of the blizzard.

At point blank range, the blizzard freezes the opponent into a block based on weight, and nothing else as far as I can tell.

Here are the lowest possible %'s that someone can get frozen at. Any % below this, and you run no risk of freezing them.

Jiggs: 51
Fox: 56
M2: 60
Falcon: 66
Ganon: 67

At the very tip of the blizzard, the opponent will never freeze at any relevant %. About halfway in the blizzard's range, people freeze around 100. I would get more exact info, but honestly it really doesn't help because you just can't judge those numbers exactly, because just a tiny bit closer and it will freeze, but if they are in a different part of their standing animation and it won't. This post gives you the basics, but the best thing to do is understand that people can be frozen above 50-70%, but by hitting with the tip, you can prevent freezing altogether, but the blizzard will still hit them upwards. Just learn the spacing and take a guess.

Also: These tests were done only with fresh blizzards. Weakened blizzards freeze at higher %'s. In fact, a blizzard weakened only one hit will not freeze Mewtwo at 999% at the tip.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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#25
so don't expect freezing at 60 is a good guideline maybe 70% due to gannon/bowser and how it rarly freezes at lower percents.

Hey PEEf thanks.


Hmm What if we make this the place where we spitball info together? We both know you'd keep adding info and it would hype this thead up.
 

PEEF!

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#26
This is where I have been spitballing info. One stickied data thread would be good.

Does anyone have any other questions about the blizzard? Or anything else?
 

Kyu Puff

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#27
D-throw cg percentages on every character -- it would probably be impossible to test by yourself, but I think it's some of the most important information that nobody has ever bothered to research.

Also ICG, I was thinking more of a huge, thorough guide than a spitball...
 
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