Lloid Rocket Discussion

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#1
Villager's Lloiyd Rocket (side B) is a very useful move that could have a lot of competitive applications
Here are some noticeable ones to start,

Amazing recovery option, if you hit the stage you can use Up B to recover vertically too

Use your Lloiyd and run behind it, grabbing the opponent if they shield or punishing them if they jump.

Anyone else have anything they would like to bring up?
 

Kipcom

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#2
If you hit someone with a lloid, you can manage to footstool them IMMEDIATELY. I don't know the exact percents this works and if it depends on character weight (I have to play around with it a bit more). But I know I got it to work both at low and VERY high percents on Mega Man.


So potentially, you could hit them with Lloid, footstool them immediately after you hit them, then predict if they roll or do a getup attack and punish accordingly.
 

Opana

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#3
I see a lot of potential in this move, either launched or ridden.

When set to launch, there's a brief delay, during which you can approach the enemy. You can place this Gyroid either above or towards them, but either way it helps approaches. Aside from that though, it is a great zoning tool. In combination with the sling shot, you can cover a large area, and should they resort to shielding you can go in for the grab. If they jump out of range of the Gyroid and the shot, use uair as it has a lasting hit box.

The Gyroid is great for zoning, mind games, and approaches.

Now then, riding the Gyroid is a different story. It is an alright recovery, although it can be easily stopped. The reason it is useful, however, is for combos. You can ride it, and if you make contact with a damageable object, the Gyroid explodes and sends you up into the air in a non-freefall state. Now, this is a slow and easily dodged move, so in the event you do miss, you can plant a tree prior to attempting as a means to stop yourself without free falling. Then, you can dair to the stage, or pocket through any move due to invincibilyt frames.

I recall comboing a ridden Gyroid to a fair, but not the percents.

I just see a lot of potential in this move; what do you guys think?
 

Plino

 
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#4
Like you said the Rocket isn't a particularly effective recovery option, because it can be stopped with lots of common projectiles (of course, this is going by the demo). For example, Link's arrows, boomerang, bombs, and Mario's Fireballs detonate it, leaving you helpless. I need to test what sort of attacks beat it out instead of clanking, but as it is it is a really easily countered recovery.

Crashing the Rocket then following into a fair hasn't been very successful for me, so you probably pulled that off at quite low percentages. I've only ever been able to follow up with UAir because at mid-low to mid percantages the enemy is popped up (and the opponent can DI either up more or horizontally, making NAir sort of unreliable). I guess you could also try following up with a DJ NAir. I haven't tried it but NAir has pretty decent knockback, though DJing means you would be forfeiting the opportunity to follow up with more stuff.
 

Opana

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#5
Thanks for the input, I'm just really interested in this move is all.
 

A Lucky Person

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#7
What. I'm going to try this right now.

EDIT: I just tried this. This is awesome. It's very situational, but once people know about it it will discourage them from edge-guarding you right at the ledge. I like it. :awesome:
 
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Aunt Jemima

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#8
Another thing that makes Villager a beastly beast...

I just hope some great stuffs is found out about other characters, lol

EDIT: Just tried it, and it works. It's really easy to do...

Also, I believe this is a glitch, because if done correctly, Villager tries to ride his Gyroid while it's in the ledge, then the Gyroid gets teleported out, Villager tries to jump on an invisible Gyroid, and half-way through the animation, Villager gets teleported back and jumps on the Gyroid. Then it just explodes and he doesn't go into a free fall, lol.
 
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DtJ SmithZzz

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#14
this seems like a waste of a 2nd jump if you mess up. are you in invisibility frames during side b? if not you are risking being edge guarded.
 
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Plino

 
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#15
this seems like a waste of a 2nd jump if you mess up. are you in invisibility frames during side b? if not you are risking being edge guarded.
Lloid Rocket doesn't have invincibility/intangibility frames afaik.

Edit: Also I can confirm that it deals more KB when colliding against a surface (or the ledge, anyway). Unridden Rocket applies 33 KB when fresh and with the Villager and opponent Mario at 0% damage, while it applies 38 KB under those same conditions, but colliding against the ledge.

However, even with the opponent at 59%, it only applied 77 KB, and didn't come anywhere near KOing (I actually haven't been able to get it to do so). Then again, in the video the Villager was at over 50% damage, so the rage effect might have amplified it.

OP, do you think you could recreate this, but with yourself at 0% and with the attack fresh? Many thanks in advance.
 
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HermitHelmet

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#16
Lloid Rocket doesn't have invincibility/intangibility frames afaik.

Edit: Also I can confirm that it deals more KB when colliding against a surface (or the ledge, anyway). Unridden Rocket applies 33 KB when fresh and with the Villager and opponent Mario at 0% damage, while it applies 38 KB under those same conditions, but colliding against the ledge.

However, even with the opponent at 59%, it only applied 77 KB, and didn't come anywhere near KOing (I actually haven't been able to get it to do so). Then again, in the video the Villager was at over 50% damage, so the rage effect might have amplified it.

OP, do you think you could recreate this, but with yourself at 0% and with the attack fresh? Many thanks in advance.
Rage effect only happens at 100%+, doesn't it? Anyway, I can't recreate this until we get online, since my friend with the capture card lives halfway across the country. =[
 

Plino

 
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#17
Ah so its your friend who has the capture card. No worries though, the fact that you've brought this to light is in itself very awesome.

Regarding the rage effect, it (probably) begins to take effect at any non-zero percentage, according to AA. The effects scale with percentage though, so it becomes more noticeable at higher percents.

I theorise that the rocket has high KBG, so it might tie in with the rage effect to drastically increase the KB output. But idk
 

Rakurai

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#18
I've been able to KO the AI with this even when I'm at 0% in the demo.

As long as they're at 50-60%, it's pretty much a guaranteed star KO.

The trick is to attempt to ride the Lloid Rocket while you're close enough to the edge that it'll spawn in the edge and explode immediately without you getting on it. You won't even enter a free fall state if that happens and are free to double jump, up B, and even attempt to blow them up with the rocket a second time without grabbing the edge.

Works excellently as a punish against people who underestimate your ledge snap range and whiff something like a smash attack while you're trying to recover.

EDIT: Now I''m curious about how the side B customs influence the damage from this, especially the giant Lloid Rocket, due to its larger explosion.
 
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Pawsome!

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#19
Just did a test vs Mario. I was at 0%. I put him at 40% and was able to use the llioyd inside the edge of the stage to cause a swift KO while he grabbed the edge.

While we are both at 0%, it creates a situation which Mario cannot easily recover from (but not a solid confirmed kill as it does 40% and up.)
 
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Kohak

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#20
Something I like to do with the Lloid Rocket is short hop > rocket. Villager will stall in the air for a moment, and after he summons the Lloid you can jump again and use ariels. The stall gives you a little time to see how your opponent reacts to the rocket and you can follow suit with your attack. Another application is when enemies are overhead you full hop > rocket for the same effect. You'll stall in the air as the opponent is still coming down, giving you more time and better spacing to follow with a nair or uair
 
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Pawsome!

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#21
Something I like to do with the Lloid Rocket is short hop > rocket. Villager will stall in the air for a moment, and after he summons the Lloid you can jump again and use ariels. The stall gives you a little time to see how your opponent reacts to the rocket and you can follow suit with your attack. Another application is when enemies are overhead you full hop > rocket for the same effect. You'll stall in the air as the opponent is still coming down, giving you more time and better spacing to follow with a nair or uair
At medium/high percentages you can send the llyoid out, then as you're falling, tag your opponent with the slingshot so that they bounce up into the approaching rocket.
 

And_Man

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#22
I had an FG match where a Fox reflected my Lloyd Rocket into the stage. He was at 0%, and it did over 60% to him and killed him instantly. I'll try and get a video of the replay up if I can
 

Soshii

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#23
So the ledge tech with the high-knockback and damage lloyd can be done inside of your tree as well. I accidentally did it in a match with a friend, I'll try my best to get a video or gfycat of it later today.
 

Rakurai

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#26
So I tried the ledge rocket trick with the custom versions.

Rising Lloid is even stronger, dealing 33% damage and star KOing Bowser at 33% on Omega levels.

Pushy Lloid does a pathetic 9% and can't KO until over 150%.
 

Soshii

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#27
I checked the video again and tried to replicate it in training, it turns out it was my axe that caused the knockback and not the lloyd. I launched it and it blew up the same time I hit them with the axe, so the knockback was exaggerated. Sorry for the false alarm guys.
 

Kofu

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#28
I had a match the other day where I'm pretty sure the "Lloid Rocket in the ledge" trick activated when it spawned in a character. AFAIK it's the only explanation since I was on the stage and my tree wasn't active. (I was fighting Zelda and I guess she could have tried to spawn her Phantom.) It did about 25%. It seemed unusual so I saved the replay and it appears my hunch was right. The knock back didn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary though.
 

Rakurai

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#29
Apparently, if the Lloid Rocket gets reflected while Villager is riding it, it'll explode on him the moment he tries to dismount, which provided one of the funniest ends to a sudden death match I've seen so far.

Its velocity is also affected by reflectors that increase projectile speed. For hilarity, try sandwiching him between two Foxs using the Amplifying Reflector custom.
 
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Plino

 
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#31
Apparently, if the Lloid Rocket gets reflected while Villager is riding it, it'll explode on him the moment he tries to dismount, which provided one of the funniest ends to a sudden death match I've seen so far.

Its velocity is also affected by reflectors that increase projectile speed. For hilarity, try sandwiching him between two Foxs using the Accel Reflector custom.
It does explode, but not whenever you try to bail. It explodes at the end of its flight path, when it selfdestructs. It always does this, though you just get knocked off the Lloid by the explosion without taking damage. But when it gets reflected, since its not "your" projectile anymore, the explosion does hurt you.

I learnt that the hard way when I was playing the demo ;_;
 
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Darklink401

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#32
I posted this in the video thread but I felt it should be here too


Watchall think is causin this?
 
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Rakurai

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#33
I posted this in the video thread but I felt it should be here too


Watchall think is causin this?
Dr. Mario caped the rocket while it was close enough to the stage to make it clip into it, causing it to explode like a ledge rocket, only the explosion hit him instead of blowing up Villager for some reason.

Perhaps Villager reclaims possession of the explosion hitbox if he rides the rocket into the stage instead of having it self-destruct after being ridden for too long?
 
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Darklink401

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#34
Dr. Mario caped the rocket while it was close enough to the stage to make it clip into it, causing it to explode like a ledge rocket, only the explosion hit him instead of blowing up Villager for some reason.

Perhaps Villager reclaims possession of the explosion hitbox if he rides the rocket into the stage instead of having it self-destruct after being ridden for too long?
What's weird though, is that he caped me, but I DIDN'T turn around, despite having a bit left to go before reaching the ledge.

Does lloid turn around if the cape only hits Villager, not lloid?
 

Rakurai

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#35
Well, I can at least confirm that caping Villager himself won't turn the rocket around.

I'm confused as to why Dr. Mario took so much damage, though, as the explosion from crashing the gyroid into the level normally only does 12% damage, as opposed to the 27% of the ledge rocket (Which is presumably what he got hit by).
 

Darklink401

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#36
Actually, I tried on several occasions against another For Glory Dr. mario to ride lloid to the ledge, and it DID turn me around DX

Maybe theres a certain place at the top half of Villager's heard that WONT turn him around, but he has to be kinda low?

My best guess is, Ledgelloid damage is based on how close the opponent is to the center, and it seems at the very center, it KOs at 0% easily. At least that's my theory. x.x
 

Kalamoona

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#37
This happened to me today. I had never seen or heard of it so I made sure to save the replay and record a crappy video of it.
But after searching I found this topic about it.

Anyway, at 2:35 in this video after accidentally dismounting due to lag (no johns though) I was accepting my defeat when Lloid continued on to hit the ledge and did 64% damage to Mario and insta-KO'd him. I was baffled.
 

Darklink401

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#38
This happened to me today. I had never seen or heard of it so I made sure to save the replay and record a crappy video of it.
But after searching I found this topic about it.

Anyway, at 2:35 in this video after accidentally dismounting due to lag (no johns though) I was accepting my defeat when Lloid continued on to hit the ledge and did 64% damage to Mario and insta-KO'd him. I was baffled.
This ties in to what I found. Okay so it seems if Mario and Doc cape the lloid, and it hits it at a certain angle, it WONT send the lloid turning back, but will instead INSTAKILL.


Neat.
 
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Kalamoona

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#40
This ties in to what I found. Okay so it seems if Mario and Doc cape the lloid, and it hits it at a certain angle, it WONT send the lloid turning back, but will instead INSTAKILL.


Neat.
I wonder if it works with other reflectors that amplify damage? It would probably be hard to set up, though. But somehow the Doc/Mario thing happened multiple times, so maybe not too hard.
Though it could be specific to the range of the cape. Hitting below the ledge the way it does. Not sure if Fox's Reflector or others would do that.
 
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