List of Potential Full/Semi/Pseudo Clones

Blue Sun Studios

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#1
(Almost Completely Copied and Pasted from GameFAQs)

Some characters will not be covered either due to my severe lack of knowledge with them or severe lack of other suitable characters to represent them. This list also only includes clones who are also strictly associated with the parent character in some sense or hails from the same universe. I'll provide some reasoning behind several of these choices below and I may also add in more choices based in responses I see below. I'll even put some characters who have a different status than from their in-game portrayals, at least if only to compare them to another clone. You may see some characters that are simply "wishlist of characters I'd like to see" after the ones that are confirmed to be in.
In case anyone is confused by the terminology, you can visit the ssbwiki for its article on clones, and I will try my best to adhere to the concepts as much as I can.

Mario
Full-Clone: Dr. Mario (alter ego with a different profession)
Semi-Clone: Paper Mario (alternate counterpart from another dimension)
Sudo-Clone: Luigi (twin brother sharing many similarities but being distinct enough to be his own character)
Donkey Kong
Full-Clone: Funky Kong (friendly relative with the same proportions and size)
Semi-Clone: Kiddy Kong (friendly relative with similarly proportioned body and size is close)
Sudo-Clone: Chunky Kong (friendly relative with similar top-heavy ape with emphasis on slow brute force)
Link
Full-Clone: Young Link (younger counterpart with accurately proportioned body)
Semi-Clone: Toon Link (younger counterpart with super-deformed/chibi proportions)
Sudo-Clone: Ravio (Lorulean counterpart who provides many of the same types of equipment classically used by most Links)
Samus
Full-Clone: SA-X (parasite that stole Samus's Power Suit and thus uses the same abilities outside of its unique transformation)
Semi-Clone: Dark Samus (an arch-enemy who stole a suit and copied some DNA resulting in sharing some abilities and appearance)
Sudo-Clone: Federation Force (allies with suits that are made with mimicking technology in mind and share a similar build)
Yoshi
Full-Clone: Boshi (bully-like rival same proportions and likely abilities)
Semi-Clone: Birdo (similar saurian "female" counterpart with similar proportions and shared techniques in several spinoffs)
Sudo-Clone: Rex (similarly proportioned saurian who also inhabits Dinosaur Land and displays some capacity for flutter kicking)
Kirby
Full-Clone: Keeby (player 2 counterpart similar to Luigi's earliest apperarances with the same proportions and abilities)
Semi-Clone: Shadow Kirby (mirror world counterpart and enemy-turned-ally who shares proportions and utilizes copy abilities with no visible signs of having inhaled an enemy prior to the Kirby Fighters sub series)
Sudo-Clone: Gooey (ally who is created through Kirby and shares ability to copy abilities in a different manner without sharing proportions prior to Star Allies where he utilized a set of different abilities without copying them first)
Fox
Full-Clone: James (father who shares identical proportions and features who founded the crew Fox leads)
Semi-Clone: Falco (fellow crewmate and wingman who always comes to aid when it counts)
Sudo-Clone: Wolf (rival and enemy that shares position in his similarly named crew and has connections to Fox's father—likely in his father's death)
Pikachu
Full-Clone: Raichu (later evolution with similar proportions that simply retains previous forms moveset without gaining new ones with the exception of the Alolan counterpart)
Semi-Clone: Pichu (earlier evolution capable of learning moves that wild Pikachu don't learn through breeding and is the reason any Pikachu can learn Volt Tackle)
Sudo-Clone: Pachirisu (fellow electric rodent with similar size and proportions)
Luigi
Full-Clone: Dr. Luigi (alter ego with a different profession)
Semi-Clone: Paper Luigi (alternate counterpart in a different dimension)
Ness
Full-Clone: Ninten (predecessor with a similar appearance and proportions made deliberately ambiguous and shares a few spells)
Semi-Clone: Paula (teammate from whom Ness currently borrows a few moves from)
Sudo-Clone: Lucas (successor with a similar appearance and proportions)
Captain Falcon
Full-Clone: Blood Falcon (literal clone and enemy whose vehicle was made to counter his original's)
Semi-Clone: Phoenix (competing racer who shares several similar characteristics and proportions)
Sudo-Clone: Black Shadow (enemy who shares a few similar costumed similarities and has a similar build)
Jigglypuff
Full-Clone: Igglybuff (earlier evolution that shares proportions)
Semi-Clone: Wigglytuff (later evolution with similar proportions)
Sudo-Clone: Drifloon/Drifblim (similarly themed balloon-like Pokémon)
Peach
Full-Clone: Nurse Toadstool (alter ego with a different profession)
Semi-Clone: Paper Peach (alternate counterpart in another dimension)
Sudo-Clone: Daisy (best friend and supposed relative who shares a few characteristics)
Bowser
Full-Clone: Dry Bowser (undead form with similar abilities)
Semi-Clone: Paper Bowser (alternate counterpart from another dimension)
Sudo-Clone: Midbus (enemy that serves as a foil through physical appearance and abilities)
Sheik
Full-Clone: Impa (caretaker who likely taught her the techniques she uses in battle)
Sudo-Clone: Tetra (similar tomboy alter ego to another Zelda who partakes in active combat with a bladed weapon)
Zelda
Full-Clone: Young Zelda (younger counterpart with accurately proportioned body)
Semi-Clone: Toon Zelda (younger counterpart with super-deformed/chibi proportioned body)
Sudo-Clone: Hilda (Lorulean counterpart that shares proportions)
Pichu
Full-Clone: Plusle & Minun (fellow electric rodents with similar sizes and proportions)
Semi-Clone: Emolga (fellow electric rodent with similar size and proportions)
Sudo-Clone: Togedemaru (fellow electric rodent with similar size and nonstandard electrical abilities)
Falco
Semi-Clone: Katt Monroe (former teammate from his disbanded gang and member of the hypothetical Star Falco)
Sudo-Clone: Leon (enemy and rival that shares position on the similar team Star Wolf)
Marth
Full-Clone: Lucina (if not being a clone of Chrom/descendant who masqueraded as Marth and wields the same sword with a similarly proportioned body and shared animations in the main games—albeit due to Marth copying from Lucina as a DLC unit)
Semi-Clone: Roy (fellow lord whose game is similar to the second game Marth starred in)
Sudo-Clone: Seliph (fellow lord taught by a refined swordsman whose appearance is similar and wields a similarly looking sword)
Ganondorf
Full-Clone: Demise (older counterpart with similar build and sword proficiency)
Semi-Clone: Toon Ganondorf (cartoony counterpart)
Sudo-Clone: Yuga (Lorulean counterpart with emphasis on magic instead of physical might)
Mewtwo
Semi-Clone: Mew (progenitor with similar proportions)
Sudo-Clone: Deoxys (fellow pure Psychic-typed legendary Pokémon with similar genetic altered origins)
Roy
Full-Clone: Eliwood (father and fellow lord who fights the same when not on horseback)
Semi-Clone: Chrom (fellow lord derived from Marth with a similarly less-refined style)
Sudo-Clone: Alm (fellow lord with a similar less-refined fighting style)
Mr. Game & Watch
Full-Clone: Ms. Game & Watch (female counterpart to act as a counterpart to Mr. Game & Watch)
Meta Knight
Full-Clone: Dark Meta Knight (mirror world counterpart who shares many techniques)
Semi-Clone: Morpho Knight (fellow knight with the same size and proportions based on a possible beta design of Meta Knight that wields a sword and shares several techniques)
Sudo-Clone: Galacta Knight (fellow knight with the same size and proportions who shares a number of techniques)
Pit
Full-Clone: Dark Pit (literal clone with the same proportions, size, and fighting style)
Zero Suit Samus
Semi-Clone: Justin Bailey Samus (similarly dressed variant of Samus)
Sudo-Clone: Fusion Suit Samus (similarly less armored variant of Samus forced into the circumstances)
Wario
Full-Clone: Shake King (similarly proportioned and sized enemy who uses his own variations of Wario's moves)
Solid Snake
Full-Clone: Liquid Snake (twin snake cloned from the same parents)
Semi-Clone: Naked Snake (progenitor that most resembles Solid Snake)
Sudo-Clone: Solidus Snake (fellow cloned brother from the same parents)
Ike
Full-Clone: Priam (purported descendant that wields the same sword and shares weapon proficiencies)
Semi-Clone: Black Knight (enemy and rival taught by the same man and wields the sister sword counterpart)
Sudo-Clone: Hector (fellow lord upon whom Ike was most based on with a similar "unrefined" fighting style and uses the same type of weapons when promoted)
Squirtle
Full-Clone: Wartortle (immediate succeeding evolution that shares overall body style)
Semi-Clone: Blastoise (final evolution with similar proportions)
Ivysaur
Full-Clone: Venusaur (later evolution with similar proportions and leaves draping down its body)
Semi-Clone: Bulbasaur (earlier evolution with similar proportions)
Charizard
Semi-Clone: Charmeleon (immediate preceding evolution with similar proportions and disposition)
Sudo-Clone: Charmander (first evolution with shorter proportions)
Diddy Kong
Full-Clone: Dixie Kong (girlfriend that shares proportions and with her ponytail acting as her equivalent of Diddy's tail)
Lucas
Full-Clone: Claus (twin brother that shares the same abilities)
Semi-Clone: Kumatora (teammate from whom Lucas currently borrows spells from)
Sonic
Full-Clone: Emerl (ally whose size and proportions are similar and fighting style is built upon Sonic's fighting style)
Semi-Clone: Metal Sonic (robotic clone and enemy that shares many abilities with Sonic)
Sudo-Clone: Shadow (doppelganger and rival who shares a few abilities with Sonic)
King Dedede
Full-Clone: Shadow Dedede (mirror world counterpart that shares abilities)
Semi-Clone: Dedede Clone (Haltmann Works Enterprises manufactured clone that shares abilities)
Sudo-Clone: Bonkers (fellow enemy/ally that wields a hammer and shares several moves)
Olimar
Full-Clone: Louie (assistant that co-stars with him in the second game)
Semi-Clone: Alph (successor that similarly commands Pikmin in the third game)
Lucario
Full-Clone: Riolu (earlier evolution that shares a few moves with the ability to understand and use aura)
Semi-Clone: Mienfoo/Mienshao (a fellow fighting-typed pokémon whose fighting style resembles East Asian martial arts)
Sudo-Clone: Medicham (a fellow fighting-typed pokémon with emphasis placed on physical and special power)
Villager
Semi-Clone: Isabelle (secretary)
Mega Man
Full-Clone: Proto Man (elder brother model made by the same doctor that shares several abilities with his younger brother)
Semi-Clone: Bass (rival and enemy robot master made as to be Dr. Wily's answer to Mega Man who shares several abilities)
Sudo-Clone: Mega Man X (successor created by the same doctor that shares Mega Man's basic ability of copying defeated enemies' abilities)
Wii Fit Trainer
Sudo-Clone: Fitness Boxing Trainer (similar trainer from a series made for helping others stay fit and has a counterpart in the rhythm boxing minigames)
Little Mac
Full-Clone: Nano Mac (fellow protagonist from the SNES with a similar American name and build)
Semi-Clone: Doc Louis (retired boxer that trained Little Mac)
Sudo-Clone: Mr. Sandman (fellow boxer analogous to Mr. Dream—the stand-in for Mike Tyson who was planned to be a protagonist in a Punch Out!!-esque game)
Greninja
Full-Clone: Frogadier (prior evolution that shares a few abilities)
Semi-Clone: Froakie (first evolution that shares a few abilities)
Palutena
Full-Clone: Medusa (former co-ruler of Skyworld and current ruler of the opposing Underworld with similar proportions)
Semi-Clone: Viridi (fellow enemy-or-friend Goddess that provides Pit and Dark Pit with the same powers as Palutena)
Sudo-Clone: Pandora (fellow enemy goddess with similar proportions in her true form that also uses a weapon)
PAC-MAN
Full-Clone: MS. PAC-MAN (member of the same species and wife in some continuities)
Lucina
Sudo-Clone: Eirika (fellow female lord with similarly graceful fighting style)
Robin
Full-Clone: Morgan (child from the future who takes much after their parent)
Semi-Clone: Grima (blood progenitor capable of possessing Robin's body)
Sudo-Clone: Celica (fellow sword and spell-casting protagonist with greater emphasis on magic compared to their partners)
Shulk
Full-Clone: Klaus (similar appearance and is the creator of the Monado)
Semi-Clone: Alvis (teammate and physical embodiment of the Monado's will)
Sudo-Clone: Rex (successor who wields a legendary blade tied to an ancient spirit and teammate)
Bowser Jr.
Full-Clone: Baby Bowser (time-displaced father that shares exact physical features)
Semi-Clone: Koopa Kid (similar minuscule variants of Bowser occasionally treated akin to children of sorts)
Sudo-Clone: Koopalings (subordinates that often operate similar schemes, mechs, and were once referred to as Bowser's children)
Ryu
Full-Clone: Evil Ryu (evil counterpart born of Satsui no Hado corruption that shares several moves)
Semi-Clone: Ken (best friend and rival taught by the same master who shares several moves)
Sudo-Clone: Sakura (number one fan and friend who emulates many of Ryu's moves)
Cloud
Full-Clone: Zack (late friend whose memories and buster sword were inherited from)
Corrin
Full-Clone: Kana (child raised in the Astral Plane who takes much after their parent and shares dragon fang abilities)
Bayonetta
Full-Clone: Rosa (mother and fellow umbra witch who can use many of the same and similar techniques)
Semi-Clone: Jeanne (best friend, rival, and fellow umbra witch who can use many of the same and similar techniques)
Sudo-Clone: Rodin (ally who provides Bayonetta with various weapons and can utilize a few similar abilities)
Inkling
Semi-Clone: Octoling (fellow humanoid descended from cephalopods that wields some of the same weapons)
Simon
Full-Clone: Trevor (ancestor that uses the same weapon and fought with the same fighting style)
Semi-Clone: Richter (descendant that uses the same weapon who fought with an expanded upon style)
Chrom
Full-Clone: Lucina (if not a clone of Marth/daughter from the future who he taught and wields the same sword with the same moveset in Fire Emblem: Warriors)
King K. Rool
Sudo-Clone: Lord Fredrik (similar position within his own tribe and who has a few moves that reference Kaptain K. Rool's)
Isabelle
Full-Clone: Digby (twin brother)
Ken
Full-Clone: Violent Ken (evil counterpart under the thrall of M. Bison's psycho power that shares several moves)
Incineroar
Sudo-Clone: Emboar (similar humanoid fire-starter pokémon with sluggish movement and with high attack while resembling a wrestler)

EDIT: I added Lucario and Riolu to the list
SECOND EDIT: I added King K. Rool and Lord Frederick to the list
THIRD EDIT: List has been revamped. "Echo Fighter" has been removed due to it not truly reflecting a character's clone status as of Ken's standing being a semi-clone. Multiple characters have been added.
 
Last edited:

Mewtwo

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
759
#4
Here's the thing, in a roster as big as Smash Ultimate, it's almost better to NOT have every character be completely unique, and honestly some characters just work real dandy as a clone or echo.

I'm honestly surprised we didn't get even more echoes. Jeanne would have been SUCH an easy inclusion and she fights exactly like Bayonetta anyway, as emphasized several times in the first Bayonetta game.

I'm appalled we didn't get any Hilda costume or echo to be frank. Initially I didn't like the idea of Twili Midna as an echo of Zelda, but if they did it right it could be REALLY cool (though won't ever though, not in a million years, unfortunately).
 

KIRBY MAIN

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
29
#5
Would love a Bayonetta clone with Dante from Devil May Cry, except for the smash attacks, have him use his sword like Gananondorf ^_^
 

Blue Sun Studios

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BlueSunStudios
#6
Here's the thing, in a roster as big as Smash Ultimate, it's almost better to NOT have every character be completely unique, and honestly some characters just work real dandy as a clone or echo.

I'm honestly surprised we didn't get even more echoes. Jeanne would have been SUCH an easy inclusion and she fights exactly like Bayonetta anyway, as emphasized several times in the first Bayonetta game.

I'm appalled we didn't get any Hilda costume or echo to be frank. Initially I didn't like the idea of Twili Midna as an echo of Zelda, but if they did it right it could be REALLY cool (though won't ever though, not in a million years, unfortunately).
In the fighting game scene—Smash especially (or just in general really)—people simply hate clones to no end and want everyone to be an utter snowflake when it simply doesn't make sense for some characters (and just say that characters who don't make sense like this don't "deserve" to be in the game anyways based on their arbitrary fan rules). Taking this into consideration, is it any wonder why we didn't get as many clones as we could've gotten? I personally have little issue with clones unless they're exactly the same as another character with no differences whatsoever (which is why Daisy and Richter make me so sad compared to the other clones since the former only has hurtbox differences and the latter only has a single move in which he uses aura instead of fire). Even subtle differences throughout that ken with the characters' origins are okay with me, and a part of me feels like the dev team is kind of just giving up given the clones' receptions, hence the Echoes being the way they are unless its Ken. Inventing ideas of how to handle clones (Echo Fighter or Semi-Clone) is one thing I tend to do most in my Smash downtime. Also, in retrospect Twili Midna would far better suit TP Zelda as a clone in any fashion rather than ALttP/ALBW Zelda.
 
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Blue Sun Studios

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
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#7
Not sure how original some of these ideas are for the Echo Fighters (at least how I would handle Echo Fighters) and Semi-Clones, but I thought that some of the ones I came up with were somewhat worth sharing at the least. Some details will not be discussed just yet since this is meant to be an incredibly simple overview of things (WARNING, I may have gone overboard on the last few)

#2ε—Kiddy Kong v.s. Donkey Kong
  • Slightly smaller and slightly lighter, trading range for being harder to hit
  • Attacks that leave him more open possess more power, and Final Smash is Konga Beat instead of Jungle Rush
  • Falling speed and gravity are lower to compensate for weaker recovery distance
Funky Kong v.s. Donkey Kong
  • Moves faster and jumps higher but doesn't hit as hard
  • Some attacks use a surfboard, granting range while sacrificing attack speed
  • Recovery options grant more distance at the cost of damage potential
Shadow Kirby v.s. Kirby
  • Inhale does not trap opponents in mouth, instead catching them in the hand and throwing them in one of six directions
  • Due to the lack of inhale copying character special abilities, nearly every attack is represented by a copy ability
  • Final Smash uses Master instead of Ultra Sword which is shorter ranged but is stronger
#8ε—Pikachu v.s. Raichu
  • Quite bigger and heavier, having longer range and slower attack speed
  • Is generally less mobile but compensates for it with higher attack power all around
  • Tail possesses sweetspots on lightning bolt and sourspots elsewhere
#9ε—Luigi v.s. Dr. Luigi
  • Lower falling speed and gravity with higher jump strength and faster horizontal movement, at the cost of overall attack power
  • Poltergust G-00 is absent from moveset, reverting to old grabs and throws alongside the Negative Zone, and Fireball is replaced with Megavitamin
  • Green Missile deals electric damage instead of fire damage, and Super Jump Punch deals multiple electric hits throughout the move similar to Mario's Super Jump Punch but weaker
#11ε—Captain Falcon v.s. Blood Falcon
  • Slightly worse mobility and traction with better air acceleration
  • Slightly slower attack speed with higher attack power to compensate
  • Attacks appear wilder compared to Captain Falcon's and Blue Falcon is replaced with Blood Hawk which comes from the background instead of the foreground
#11ε—Captain Falcon v.s. Phoenix
  • Slightly better mobility and burst movement speeds with lower traction
  • Slightly faster attack speed while sacrificing attack power
  • Attacks appear more refined compared to Captain Falcon's and Blue Falcon is replaced with Rainbow Phoenix which comes from behind Phoenix instead of the foreground
Black Shadow v.s. Captain Falcon (Semi-Clone)
  • Much heavier and higher mobility with higher gravity and falling speed while sacrificing greater burst movement speeds
  • Much poorer air acceleration and traction with considerably higher attack power
  • Much taller and higher attack range in exchange for sluggish attack speed and Blue Falcon is replaced with Black Bull which comes towards Black Bull instead of from the foreground—Fire attacks are either replaced by either darkness attacks, electric attacks, or are taken out entirely
#12ε—Igglybuff v.s. Jigglypuff
  • Almost twice as short and considerably lighter, being much harder to hit with much less attack range
  • Attack power is lower with faster attacking speed to compensate, and mobility is slightly better with worse air acceleration
  • Has one more air jump
#12ε—Wigglytuff v.s. Jigglypuff
  • At least twice as tall and slightly heavier, having greater attack range and being a bigger attack target
  • Attack power is higher at the cost of slower attack speed, and mobility is slightly worse with better air acceleration
  • Has one less air jump
#14ε—Dark Bowser v.s. Bowser
  • Fire Breath is rechristened as Dark Fire Breath and deals darkness damage instead of fire damage
  • Replaces Flying Slam with Dark Vaccuum that sucks in an opponent and spits them out in one of seven directions
  • Final Smash is Dark Star Sky instead of Giga Bowser Punch which surrounds the stage in damaging darkness that occasionally flinches opponents similar to the hornet's nest
#14ε—Dry Bowser v.s. Bowser
  • Fire Breath is colored blue instead of red and is thinner with longer reach
  • Considerably lighter with higher movement speed, lower gravity, lower falling speed, and lower traction
  • Physical attacks are weaker while special attacks are potentially stronger and occasionally inflicting status effects—Final Smash is Dry Bowser Klaw instead of Giga Bowser Punch where Dry Bowser grows into the background and slashes at the screen with up to five weaker slashes before shrinking back to normal
Midbus v.s. Bowser (Semi-Clone)
  • Replaces Fire Breath with Hammer Throw, an attack that features a damaging olympics hammer being swungwhose horizontal distance and net height are proportionate to the amount of time charged, though overcharging results in a weak move that makes Midbus dizzy
  • Claw based attacks are replaced with hand swats or punches and Whirling Fortress is replaced with Body Slam, a jump and mid-air spin that can be charge-inputted into a falling slam which meteors at the beginning of the descent but cannot grab ledges from behind
  • Final Smash is Blizzard Midbus Storm instead of Giga Bowser Punch which transforms Midbus into his Blizzard Midbus form and jumps off the battlefield, hanging from the top ledge of the screen to throw freezing snowballs at enemies before dashing back onto the battlefield from the foreground to punch at the last person he aimed at which may result in an automatic star K.O. at high percentages
#17ε—Hilda v.s. Zelda
  • Attack range is shorter and mobility is slower with higher attacking power and faster attacking speed to compensate
  • Fire and magic attacks are replaced with darkness and lightning attacks respectively, and Hyrulean Phantom is rechristened as Lorulean Phantom
  • Special moves are darker colored and do not namedrop the golden goddesses (Neutral Special is stronger with a weaker projectile reflection multiplier and limit while dealing ice damage and granting no intangibility, Side Special is readied and detonates faster and travels farther while being harder to move up or down in addition to halting all movement midflight, Up Special draws opponents in with toward first hit and pushes them away after the second hit while dealing more damage but halts all momentum, and Down Smash places phantom in front instead of behind while being easier to destroy but it deals increased normal and shield damage), and the Final Smash is an upside down black triangle instead of a rightside up golden one
#19ε—Plusle & Minun v.s. Pichu
  • Two characters fight instead of one like the Ice Climbers (Plusle is in front while Minun is in the back)—Plusle has higher attack power while Minun has higher weight, falling speed, and gravity, and Agility is replaced with Volt Switch which switches between Plusle and Minun
  • Attacks do not harm themselves and do more damage when together while dealing much less damage alone
  • Slightly larger and heavier with higher falling speed, and Final Smash is Wild Charge instead of Volt Tackle
#23ε—Demise v.s. Ganondorf
  • Slightly taller and heavier with higher falling speed and gravity, also possessing higher attack power and range at the cost of slower attack speed
  • Greatsword is replaced with Ghirahim's sword form, and forward smash utilizes electric sword beams unavailable at 0% damage/full health while scaling its power and range with damage taken/health lost
  • Final Smash uses the Imprisoned's third form instead of Beast Ganon/Ganon the Demon King
#26ε—Ms. Game & Watch v.s. Mr. Game & Watch
  • Most attacks are primarily female renditions of Mr. Game & Watch's moves with higher pitched beeping sounds used; the exceptions are her different Up Smash where the woman from Oil Panic jumps up and Chef which becomes a Game & Watch rendition of Peach
  • Forward air uses the package from Cement Factory instead of the bomb from Bombs away
  • Ms. Game & Watch is slightly lighter with lower falling speed and gravity, and her attacking speed and mobility are faster to compensate for lower attack power
#27ε—Dark Meta Knight v.s. Meta Knight
  • Sword attacks that are outright weaker are either faster, summon reflective barriers, or both for substantially weaker attacks
  • Sword attacks that are slower are either much stronger by themselves, summon an additional sword for extra reach, or both for substantially slower attacks
  • Mach Tornado is replaced by Dark Mirror which splits in two on the ground or six in the air while initially halting momentum without creating a helpless state, and Darkness Illusion is replaced by Dark Calibur which begins as a sweep across the ground that initiates a teleporting attack at the apex of the rise and ends with a diagonal meteor smash
#27ε—Morpho Knight v.s. Meta Knight
  • Some attacks are imbued with fire and deal more damage but are slower
  • Some sword attacks are slower but enlarge Morpho Knight's sword while dealing more damage
  • Retools Dimensional Cape into Butterfly Scales which paralyzes opponents with shockwaves and minimal damage if the attack input is held down uppon reappearing—Darkness Illusion is replaced with Double Sword Division which spawns two swords and enlarges them before slashing with them on both sides of Morpho Knight
Galacta Knight v.s. Meta Knight (Semi-Clone)
  • Uses a lance instead of a sword in his moveset with a sweetspot and sourspot mechanic similar to Marth's which makes his attack reach longer distanced with thrusts but thinner as a result—Galacta Knight is also slightly larger
  • Attack power is more polarized with his weakest attacks having the fastest speed and his slowest attacks having the strongest power—he is slightly heavier with higher gravity and falling speed with higher mobility but worse traction and acceleration
  • Replaces Dimensional Cape with Galacta Counter which raises his shield in defense and reacts accordingly: unleashes a flurry of slashes before launching opponents away with a powerful slash if struck while near an opponent; fires a Knight Beam if struck while away from an opponent. Darkness Illusion is replaced with Dimensional Rift where Galacta Knight tears a hole in reality that vacuums in nearby fighters before firing a deadly laser at a diagonal angle
#32ε—Priam v.s. Ike
  • Switches between his tomahawk and Ragnell, initially using his stronger Ragnell that has limited uses and breaks when they are used up. Ragnell has greater length compared to the tomahawk being wider and having a sweetwpot/sourpot mechanic, with the middle of the tomahawk's head being stronger.
  • Attacks are slightly more sluggish while his dodges have higher intangibility frames to compensate
  • Special moves function differently; Eruption does not have flames and only has a single hitbox surrounding Priam but it has a windbox that pushes opponents away if they are not hit by the move itself, Quick Draw is replaced with Luna that deals major shield damage and goes through enemies but deals less damage overall, Aether is replaced with Sol and deals less damage while covering less vertical distance but slightly heals Priam with every hit and covers more horizontal distance, and Counter does not have flames or reduce Priam's damage but reflects 1.5 times the amount of damage struck to him. Priam's Final Smash is Awakening Aether where he leaps and slashes down to heal slight damage before dashing through any opponents in his way to launch them, breaking all shields upon impact.
Black Knight v.s. Ike (Semi-Clone)
  • Considerably taller and heavier with much higher gravity and falling speed, also possessing very sluggish mobility and agility to compensate for many periods of super/hyper armor
  • Attacks cover much more range and are much more powerful at the cost of slower attacking speed
  • Blue flames are replaced with darkness and Great Aether is replaced with Eclipse where the Black Knight quickly dashes across the screen at great length with a single slash, launching any fighter in his way with one-hit k.o. power under normal circumstances and completely bypassing shields and invincibility
#38ε—Emerl v.s. Sonic
  • Considerably heavier frame and slightly extended hurtbox
  • Up throw is completely different, using the Sonic Up Draft from Sonic Battle instead
  • Final Smash is Ult. Sonic Combo where Emerl revs up a punch, and if it connects Emerl unleashes a flurry of punches and kicks on the trapped opponent(s) and then finishes it with three Sonic Waves aimed at the opponent(s)
Shadow v.s. Sonic (Semi-Clone)
  • Highly polarized mobility due to Air Shoes usage: walking speed and non-sprinting ground jump height is slower and lower respectively with higher traction, higher air acceleration, and higher falling speed and gravity; sprinting is faster with lower traction and causes ground jumps to have higher height, lower air acceleration, and lower falling speed and gravity while all midair jumps by default possess this
  • Chaos attacks are considerably more powerful with disjointed hitboxes while having higher start-up and noticeably more cooldown while non-chaos attacks are either weaker with additional effects or less extreme than chaos attacks
  • Spring Jump is replaced with Chaos Control, an omni-directional teleporting recovery move that briefly slows down anyone nearby when disappearing or reappearing similar to a stopwatch or Bayonetta's Witch Time, and inputting the special move results in Chaos Burst that hits hard when Shadow reappears but leaves him with increased vulnerability similar to Dimensional Cape
#54ε—Medusa v.s. Palutena
  • Slightly taller and significantly heavier, possessing slower mobility overall
  • Replaces magic damage with darkness damage, angelic wings with elongated snakes that are more powerful without windboxes, and shield attacks with claw swipes that deal more damage and cover more range but grant no protection
  • Attack power is higher while attacking speed is slower—Final Smash is Medusa's Wrath where Medusa grows giant in the background and unleashes a massive eye laser from Medusa's true form similar to Zero Suit Samus's Zero Laser, instantly killing opponents with 100%+ damage before the move's last hit
Viridi v.s. Palutena (Semi-Clone)
  • Significantly shorter and lighter while also being faster overall, and attack power is overall higher while lasting a shorter amount of time
  • Replaces magic damage with water or ice damage, angelic wings with giant leaves that are weaker with stronger windboxes, and shield attacks with scythe attacks that deal more damage and cover more range but grant no protection
  • Final Smash is Reset Bomb where Viridi calls down a massive Reset Bomb to crash the spot where she points to, dealing heavy damage and launching fighters afterwards similar to the Moon trophy
#56ε—Morgan v.s. Robin
• Slightly shorter height, reducing both vertical vulnerability and vertical attacking range
• Slightly lighter weight, reducing combo vulnerability while increasing K.O. vulnerability
• Slightly lower gravity and falling speed values; this increases both jump height and airtime while decreasing the risk against meteor smashes, but this both greatly increases the risk against vertical K.O.s and lowers the freeze frames they suffer making it harder to D.I. for survival
+ Bronze sword attacks are shorter in windup, cool down, and duration, granting easier and longer combo strings
+ All expendable weapons are stronger, cover more distance, and possess higher priority
− Bronze sword attacks are weaker which hampers damage racking capabilities, and K.O. potential
− Durability on all weapons are lower, take longer to cast, and take longer to recharge
• Final Smash is Goetia where Morgan casts a vacuuming darkness spell that deals heavy trapping damage and launches at the end; this does not restore durability on used weapons but is far more potent at K.O.ing an an enemy

Grima v.s. Robin (Semi-Clone)
  • Considerably heavier with lower falling speed and gravity, higher mobility while having lower traction and air acceleration, and aesthetically floats which elevates the hurtbox—Levin Sword is absent while Grima replaces the Bronze Sword with a Venin Sword that is weaker but occasionally poisons foes
  • Smash attacks and Special Moves are considerably different: smash attacks involve a shade of Grima's true form attacking from range while being both more powerful and slower, and Special Moves include neutral special Breath of Ruin (a chargeable darkness attack similar to other storable projectiles with high power but will backfire and damage the user if they are struck while charging it), side special Dark Spikes (a non-storable charging move that unleashes a traveling line of dark spikes that impales opponents similar to Dragon Lunge), up special Wings of Despair (a long distanced recovery move very similar to Draconic Ascent while dealing higher darkness damage at the expense of being slower to start and finish) and Dragonskin (a move that decreases all incoming damage and knockback and grants super armor during certain moves while severely slowing down the user in all aspects).
  • Pair Up is replaced with Expiration where Grima launches dark spikes to impale opponents before firing at them all with a great blast of darkness from the dragon form's head, launching them afterwards
Rex v.s. Shulk (Semi-Clone)
  • Either Pyra or Mythra (based on the palette) assist Rex with attacks being strong or weak based on their distance from him; any harm done to them affects Rex and vice-versa
  • Shorter stature and lighter weight resulting in smaller hurtboxes and shorter attack range
  • Attacks either deal fire or energy damage based on whether Pyra or Mythra is assisting Rex respectively—Final Smash is Infinity Blade where Pyra and Mythra combine into Pneuma as she and Rex unleash a powerful slash that one-hit k.o.s any opponent caught in the attack
#62ε—Corrin: Kana
  • Significantly smaller and lighter, resulting in a much shorter hurtbox and shorter attack range, and mobility is slower with higher intangibility frames to compensate
  • Omega Yato is replaced with Yato and attacks with it are weaker but are faster
  • Dragon Fang attacks are slower and have stricter active windows (in the case of Counter Surge) but possess greater power and cover more travelling distance (in the case of Dragon Lunge and Dragonic Ascent going further while Dragon Fang Shot and Counter Surge traveling farther while paraliyzing for longer and reaching further respectively)
 
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Guynamednelson

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#10
a part of me feels like the dev team is kind of just giving up given the clones' receptions, hence the Echoes being the way they are unless its Ken
Echoes are supposed to be fancy alt costumes. The only reason why they have gameplay differences is because:
:ultlucina::ultdarkpit:Already had them, and Sakurai wanted to see Dark Pit use his staff in some form. Oddly enough, he also wanted to see Lucina be shorter than Marth, but that is no longer the case.
:ultdarksamus:Unintended side effects of her animations and "phazon" effects
:ultchrom:Influenced by the other echo from FEA+Sakurai thinking he'd just be Marth+Ike
:ultken:He has gameplay differences as a clone in SF

It's like this so the work load for balancing fighters is reduced.
 
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Blue Sun Studios

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#11
Echoes are supposed to be fancy alt costumes. The only reason why they have gameplay differences is because:
:ultlucina::ultdarkpit:Already had them, and Sakurai wanted to see Dark Pit use his staff in some form. Oddly enough, he also wanted to see Lucina be shorter than Marth, but that is no longer the case.
:ultdarksamus:Unintended side effects of her animations and "phazon" effects
:ultchrom:Influenced by the other echo from FEA+Sakurai thinking he'd just be Marth+Ike
:ultken:He has gameplay differences as a clone in SF

It's like this so the work load for balancing fighters is reduced.
I'm well aware of Lucina's and Dark Pit's jump from alternate costumes to clones, though they didn't get the same sort of treatment that Dr. Mario had (which was brought about by Sakurai wanting to retain his fighting style for those who played him in melee) who goes on to further get distinguished from Mario. Wanting to shorten the workload is understandable and I do not blame them for that, though I wonder about how difficult and taxing it was to implement Echoes the way Melee handled them compared to how difficult and taxing it would be nowadays (perhaps more content being in the game has a part in that among other things). Still, I actually still use the echoes over their originals despite the negligent differences (unless it's Dark Pit simply because a part of me can't care for him much for reasons actually unrelated to gameplay).
 

RetrogamerMax

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#13
Most likely semi-clone/Echo Fighters would be:


:ultbayonetta:/Jeanne
:ultbowser:/Dry Bowser
:ultbowserjr:/?
:ultfalcon:/Black Shadow/Blood Falcon
:ultcloud:/?
:ultcorrin:/?
:ultdiddy:/Dixie Kong
:ultdk:/Funky Kong
:ultdoc:/?
:ultduckhunt:/?
:ultfalco:/?
:ultfox:/James McCloud
:ultganondorf:/Demise
:ultgreninja:/?
:ulticeclimbers:/?
:ultike:/Black Knight
:ultincineroar:/?
:ultinkling:/Octolings
:ultisabelle:/?
:ultjigglypuff:/?
:ultkingdedede:/?
:ultkrool:/?
:ultkirby:/?
:ultlink:/?
:ultlittlemac:/Glass Joe
:ultlucario:/?
:ultlucas:/?
:ultluigi:/Dr. Luigi
:ultmario:/?
:ultmegaman:/Proto Man
:ultmetaknight:/Galacta Knight/Dark Meta Knight
:ultmewtwo:/?
:ultmiifighters:/?
:ultgnw:/?
:ultness:/Ninten
:ultolimar:/?
:ultpacman:/Ms. Pac-Man
:ultpalutena:/Medusa
:ultpichu:/?
:ultpikachu:/Raichu
:ultpiranha:/?
:ultsquirtle:/?
:ultivysaur:/?
:ultcharizard:/?
:ultridley:/?
:ultrob:/?
:ultrobin:/?
:ultrosalina:/?
:ultsheik:/Impa
:ultshulk:/?
:ultsnake:/Big Boss
:ultsonic:/Metal Sonic/Shadow/Tails
:ulttoonlink:/?
:ultvillager:/?
:ultwario:/?
:ultwiifittrainer:/?
:ultwolf:/?
:ultyoshi:/Birdo/Boshi
:ultyounglink:/?
:ultzelda:/Hilda
:ultzss:/?
 
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Blue Sun Studios

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#16
User was warned for this post; double posting(Please edit your messages instead)
Impa as a Echo to Sheik seems most likely. At least, I tricked myself into believing that.
I'd assume that they'd go with either Ocarina of Time or Skyward Sword—probably the more likely of the two considering it's similarities to the popular Hyrule Warriors depiction—rather than Hyrule Warriors itself since despite that game's popularity the dev team doesn't seem to be too keen in representing spinoff games amongst the playable cast (Daisy's debut game Super Mario Land, by the way, is now counted among the mainstream games much like Super Mario Run, thus eliminating that particular barrier against her inclusion).

Most likely semi-clone/Echo Fighters would be:


:ultbayonetta:/Jeanne
:ultbowser:/Dry Bowser
:ultbowserjr:/?
:ultfalcon:/Black Shadow/Blood Falcon
:ultcloud:/?
:ultcorrin:/?
:ultdiddy:/Dixie Kong
:ultdk:/Funky Kong
:ultdoc:/?
:ultduckhunt:/?
:ultfalco:/?
:ultfox:/James McCloud
:ultganondorf:/Demise
:ultgreninja:/?
:ulticeclimbers:/?
:ultike:/Black Knight
:ultincineroar:/?
:ultinkling:/Octolings
:ultisabelle:/?
:ultjigglypuff:/?
:ultkingdedede:/?
:ultkrool:/?
:ultkirby:/?
:ultlink:/?
:ultlittlemac:/Glass Joe
:ultlucario:/?
:ultlucas:/?
:ultluigi:/Dr. Luigi
:ultmario:/?
:ultmegaman:/Proto Man
:ultmetaknight:/Galacta Knight/Dark Meta Knight
:ultmewtwo:/?
:ultmiifighters:/?
:ultgnw:/?
:ultness:/Ninten
:ultolimar:/?
:ultpacman:/Ms. Pac-Man
:ultpalutena:/Medusa
:ultpichu:/?
:ultpikachu:/Raichu
:ultpiranha:/?
:ultsquirtle:/?
:ultivysaur:/?
:ultcharizard:/?
:ultridley:/?
:ultrob:/?
:ultrobin:/?
:ultrosalina:/?
:ultsheik:/Impa
:ultshulk:/?
:ultsnake:/Big Boss
:ultsonic:/Metal Sonic/Shadow/Tails
:ulttoonlink:/?
:ultvillager:/?
:ultwario:/?
:ultwiifittrainer:/?
:ultwolf:/?
:ultyoshi:/Birdo/Boshi
:ultyounglink:/?
:ultzelda:/Hilda
:ultzss:/?
I'm curious as to how exactly you came to this conclusion yourself and how you feel the clones would be carried out.
 

RetrogamerMax

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#18
I'm curious as to how exactly you came to this conclusion yourself and how you feel the clones would be carried out.
Sorry, it really wasn't a list of what semi-clones/Echo Fighters are the most likely, but a list of every possible semi-clone/Echo Fighter for every fighter.
 
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Blue Sun Studios

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#19
Sorry, it really wasn't a list of what semi-clones/Echo Fighters are the most likely, but a list of every possible semi-clone/Echo Fighter for every fighter.
Ah, I see.
Yes, it is. Other than pistols, they fight nothing alike.
That's probably because besides their different fighting styles and settings, they are very similar in personality to the point that Bayonetta was basically conceived as a female Dante. I get what they were getting at, but yeah—Dante being an echo of Bayo doesn't ken well at all.
 

Rayleigh

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#20
I'ma just link the post I did in another thread a bit ago...it's somewhat based off the OP's insanity however...so, for once, I'm not entirely to blame for the insanity on display!
 
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#21
Funky Kong is by far the echo I want most in the game (assuming Dixie can't be one). He's a kick-*** character who everybody loves. He's bodacious and burly and has even starred in multiple memes. He could bring a funktastic unique moveset to the table, but being the swell dude he is, he'd be just fine with echoing Donkey Kong so as not to strain the hardworking game developers. He's more relevant than ever thanks to the Switch, so someone tell Mr. Sakurai that Funky Kong is ready to join the fight.

Seriously, does anyone not love Funky Kong?
 

RetrogamerMax

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#22
Funky Kong is by far the echo I want most in the game (assuming Dixie can't be one). He's a kick-*** character who everybody loves. He's bodacious and burly and has even starred in multiple memes. He could bring a funktastic unique moveset to the table, but being the swell dude he is, he'd be just fine with echoing Donkey Kong so as not to strain the hardworking game developers. He's more relevant than ever thanks to the Switch, so someone tell Mr. Sakurai that Funky Kong is ready to join the fight.

Seriously, does anyone not love Funky Kong?
Funky Kong is my 4th most wanted Echo after Boshi, Medusa, and Metal Sonic. So yeah, I would love the funkster to join the roster in Smash at some point. But only after Dixie Kong get's in. Also, all they would need to do for Funky is to give him that helicopter surfboard spin for his recovery and take everything else completely from DK, he would be such a easy Echo to make.
 
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Diddy Kong

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#23
I'd assume that they'd go with either Ocarina of Time or Skyward Sword—probably the more likely of the two considering it's similarities to the popular Hyrule Warriors depiction—rather than Hyrule Warriors itself since despite that game's popularity the dev team doesn't seem to be too keen in representing spinoff games amongst the playable cast (Daisy's debut game Super Mario Land, by the way, is now counted among the mainstream games much like Super Mario Run, thus eliminating that particular barrier against her inclusion).
Still as far as Daisy's "abilities" go, she takes from the spinoff games. The whole flowery stuff originated in Mario Tennis am pretty sure. Sure that one canon appearance helps, but it's not like she's fully build around that cause it would be impossible. Impa would most likely be from Skyward Sword however. Ocarina of Time Impa wouldn't play much like Sheik if we got by the Spirit Battle version of OoT Impa. There you fight a bigger Sheik (not giant but still, bigger) and after a while she gets a increase in defense, and the Spirit of Impa is a defensive (blue) Spirit as well, while Sheik would be categorised as a Offensive or Grab-based character am sure.

Anyway, Funky should indeed happen. Up B is literally all that should be changed for it to work properly.
 
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#24
>Wario: Shake King

In what world does this make any sense? Besides, I hardly think they'd go with him over other Wario characters.

Funky Kong is by far the echo I want most in the game (assuming Dixie can't be one). He's a kick-*** character who everybody loves. He's bodacious and burly and has even starred in multiple memes. He could bring a funktastic unique moveset to the table, but being the swell dude he is, he'd be just fine with echoing Donkey Kong so as not to strain the hardworking game developers. He's more relevant than ever thanks to the Switch, so someone tell Mr. Sakurai that Funky Kong is ready to join the fight.

Seriously, does anyone not love Funky Kong?
I'd love to see this guy in this series (as anyone can plainly see). One of my most wanted echoes after Ms. Pac-Man.
 
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Blue Sun Studios

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#25
>Wario: Shake King

In what world does this make any sense? Besides, I hardly think they'd go with him over other Wario characters.
They share a similar appearance in clothing choice and physique with both being rotund and upper-body heavy brutes, their personalities are highly identical in that they're greedy *ssholes obsessed with riches whose debut appearances are prominent antagonists, and the Shake King even uses variations of Wario's moves in the battle against him. The Super Mario Wiki can tell you a little better about it than I can. Granted, my reference pool of potential Wario series clones of Wario himself is rather limited, but the Shake King with all he's got for him is honestly the best I could think of for him.

Still as far as Daisy's "abilities" go, she takes from the spinoff games. The whole flowery stuff originated in Mario Tennis am pretty sure. Sure that one canon appearance helps, but it's not like she's fully build around that cause it would be impossible. Impa would most likely be from Skyward Sword however. Ocarina of Time Impa wouldn't play much like Sheik if we got by the Spirit Battle version of OoT Impa. There you fight a bigger Sheik (not giant but still, bigger) and after a while she gets a increase in defense, and the Spirit of Impa is a defensive (blue) Spirit as well, while Sheik would be categorised as a Offensive or Grab-based character am sure.

Anyway, Funky should indeed happen. Up B is literally all that should be changed for it to work properly.
Daisy is actually more often distinguished from Peach outside of Smash in the counterpart/foil divergences sort of differences. I'm not saying that her one canon appearance should have been used as the base of her abilities—rather that since it exists is why she's in Smash in the first place—but it actually seems to be the case anyways since she's no different than Peach here, almost in lieu of her only mainline appearance having her as the stand-in for Peach with no differences whatsoever (excluding Super Mario Run where she merely had a double jump to separate her from everyone else). For Impa I would actually beg to differ if just by a little bit; Impa would likely play the same no matter her appearance whether it be OoT or SS since both incarnations share the same role and body plan with each other more than they do with other incarnations of the character, and SS Impa was shown to be swift on her toes. The defensive spirit typing could be alluding to her generally being tougher than other Sheikah and reflecting her role as Zelda's guardian. She wouldn't necessarily be sluggish, just not so fast compared to Sheik and would be stronger given her more developed physique.

Funky could ride his board like how Donkey Kong's up special works with his hands doing less damage and his board doing more, and he could ride water waves on the ground to make some sense as to how he can ride it on the ground to begin with. You could also have his side special move use his board as well instead of his head.

I'ma just link the post I did in another thread a bit ago...it's somewhat based off the OP's insanity however...so, for once, I'm not entirely to blame for the insanity on display!
A lot of those choices do feel quite out there, though you did give us some forewarning about that, and you did say that the OP seemed more out there as well with their choices. I just hope I'm not too insane myself.
 
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PeridotGX

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#26
I made a roster where I gave every character an echo fighter. I also gave every fighter already with one another
Everyone's echo fighter Roster2.png


A few notes:

Eriham and Erika is just Erika
Deku Scrub is Deku Baba
Pit and Ridley are specifically those altered designs
I don't know anything about Persona, I just took somebody's word for Goro
I legitimately couldn't think of anyone for ZSS, so the choice is a joke.

If you have any questions, please ask.
 
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#27
Semi-clones:
:ultdiddy:: Dixie Kong
:ultwolf:: Leon Powalski
:ultpalutena:: Medusa
:ultkrool:: Lord Fredrik

Echos:
:ultdk:: Funky Kong
:ultlink:: Linkle
:ultyoshi:: Boshi
:ultfox:: James McCloud
:ultness:: Ninten
:ultfalcon:: Blood Falcon
:ultsheik:: Impa
:ultzelda:: Hilda
:ultganondorf:: Demise
:ultsnake:: Big Boss
:ultpacman:: Ms. Pac-Man
:ultbayonetta:: Jeanne
:ultcloud:: Zack Fair
:ultinkling:: Octoling
:ultisabelle:: Digby
 
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Blue Sun Studios

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#28
I made a roster where I gave every character an echo fighter. I also gave every fighter already with one another
View attachment 187672

A few notes:

Eriham and Erika is just Erika
Deku Scrub is Deku Baba
Pit and Ridley are specifically those altered designs
I don't know anything about Persona, I just took somebody's word for Goro
I legitimately couldn't think of anyone for ZSS, so the choice is a joke.

If you have any questions, please ask.
I'm primarily curious as to how you came to these conclusions yourself.
 
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#29
Surprised no one has brought up Toad as an echo fighter for Mario. They have pretty much all of the same abilities with the exception of Cape. It could work perfectly.
 

Blue Sun Studios

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#30
Surprised no one has brought up Toad as an echo fighter for Mario. They have pretty much all of the same abilities with the exception of Cape. It could work perfectly.
Likely for the same reasons Sakurai didn't do the same thing to Isabelle (or at least for me); they don't share proportions at all, and some of Mario's abilities (like his forward smash, fireball, F.L.U.D.D., etc.) would look out of place on Toad. Sure, he could replace several of those moves, but would that really make him an "Echo Fighter"?
 
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#31
Nah, I think he could do all of those things. Toad can use fireballs in NSMB and he wore FLUDD in the credits of Sunshine. As far as proportions, you got me, make him a semiclone then.
 

Blue Sun Studios

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#32
Nah, I think he could do all of those things. Toad can use fireballs in NSMB and he wore FLUDD in the credits of Sunshine. As far as proportions, you got me, make him a semiclone then.
I know. It's just that when I look at Mario doing fiery stuff compared to Toad, I can only really see Toad doing that stuff as Fire Toad like you've mentioned since I've only ever seen him do that kind of stuff as Fire Toad, whereas Mario has several games under his belt where he didn't need to be Fire Mario to use fire, I don't remember the credits of Sunshine all that well though, and it's hard for me to dissociate F.L.U.D.D. from Mario, but I'll give you that one. To me, it's really not too much of a question of whether or not they can do certain things, it's more how well known are they for doing that thing. We could implement Toad a la Piranha Plant where the Piranha Plant morphs into different members of its various subspecies (Putrid Piranha, Spiky Piranha, etc.) and give Toad a color change for whenever he uses his fire powers—though we'd have to be mindful of implementing his color schemes taking that into consideration since Piranha Plant doesn't reuse its transformation colors in its palette selection. With those features implemented I could see Toad working as a Mario semi-clone at best, and with him being a semi-clone we'd have more leeway much like Isabelle and Villager's relationship due to differing proportions and separate rigging as a result.
It's always a lot to think about when deciding how to implement characters. I'm certainly not the best, but I do try to make it all feel at least genuinely plausible to me, and I hope that others find it plausible as well. You've all got good ideas even if I don't see them the same way you do.
 

Rayleigh

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#33
A lot of those choices do feel quite out there, though you did give us some forewarning about that, and you did say that the OP seemed more out there as well with their choices. I just hope I'm not too insane myself.
Oh yeah, no doubt...but I've warmed to three of them as genuine wants:

- Fusion Suit Samus
- Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard (Being separated and, thus, technically echoes in their own right as PKMN Trainer would remain.)
- Clown Car Bowser...it's dumb enough for me yet it'd also...work...in a Ken sort of way.
 

Blue Sun Studios

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#34
Oh yeah, no doubt...but I've warmed to three of them as genuine wants:

- Fusion Suit Samus
- Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard (Being separated and, thus, technically echoes in their own right as PKMN Trainer would remain.)
- Clown Car Bowser...it's dumb enough for me yet it'd also...work...in a Ken sort of way.
I actually feel like the Fusion Suit (from Metroid Fusion proper mind you) would be some sort of hybridization of the Power/Varia Suit and Zero Suit—retaining some degree of light mobility akin to Zero Suit but with a weaker attack set taken from the Power/Varia Suit, and Justin Bailey would be an Echo of that being even lighter and weaker but closer to Zero Suit than the Power/Varia Suit.
If I understand you correctly, you mean to give them an additional down special move and remap the changing mechanic to a shield + special move input like the Inkling recharging their ink? Because I got lost somewhere—my bad.
Clown Car Bowser isn't so farfetched, he'd be an Echo of Bowser Jr. since Echoes don't necessarily have to have the exact same size (just ask Daisy)—just similar if not identical proportions either scaled up or down with proper rigging to work with and bam.
 

Diddy Kong

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#35
Surprised no one has brought up Toad as an echo fighter for Mario. They have pretty much all of the same abilities with the exception of Cape. It could work perfectly.
Also F.L.U.D.D. and Toad is shorter than Mario and would require different stats. Down B probably taken from Peach and while we’re at it, Neutral B as well.
 

PeridotGX

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#36
I'm primarily curious as to how you came to these conclusions yourself.
I'm only going to go over the ones I know are weird choices.

Gooey: In KDL3, he could have all of Kirby's copy abilities, and inhaled using his tounge,. which could be borrowed from Yoshi. I forgot about all the kick moves though, so it probably shoud've been Keeby.

Blaziken: Simmilarly proportioned fighter who uses kicks a lot. The only difference I see as necessary is altering Falcon Punch's animation to be a kick (Like that one Mii Brawler move).

Midbus: Bowser's Rival from BIS. Works mostly the same, just make it so Midbus has Ice breath instead.

Timmy and Tommy: The pair hold a sack of bells that work as the IC's hammers. Neutral B is replaced with them throwing a pile of bells forward, but it still works like IC's Neutral B. Down B is replaced with Villager's Tree, as Timmy and Tommy bought out Leif the gardener's store. FS is them building one of the TnT stores from New Leaf, aptly named now.

Maxwell: Scribblenauts' whole thing is summoning anything. Mr.Game and Watch's moves are full of weird stuff, so it works.

Classic Pit, Wario Man, Herdier and Pidove, Other M Ridley: I was desperate

Holly Blue Agate: I had said ZSS was the one I was stumped on, right? That aside, HBA actually does work a little, with an electric whip and heels.

Mienfoo: Simmilar looking fighting type

Masked Man: Simmilarly proportioned sword user. They even hold their sword in the same hand.

Waluigi: I was getting desprate. They have the same proportions

Gard and Minior: Gardevoir is Rosalina, Minior is Luma.

Susie: She's in a mech all the time in Robobot.

Sawk: Simmilar looking to Ryu and could probably do everything he does. Designed to be "simple" Ryu, like how Lucina is simple Marth

Wart: Neutral B could be made just the inhale part, everything else fits enough.

Zangeif: Another wrestling character

If you have more questions, feel fee to ask.
 
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