List of characters affected by Dair/Footstool bug

[bc1910]

As many of you will know, there is a bug that affects certain characters during the second footstool of any given footstool > Dair > footstool combo. I couldn't find a list of characters affected by this bug, so I've compiled one myself.

If you're not sure what I'm talking about, allow me to explain. When you footstool jump an opponent, all subsequent footstool jumps can have half the maximum height of the previous footstool jump until you touch the ground again. After a few footstool jumps your character will barely jump off the opponent's head at all, and shortly after will be unable to footstool them any further (usually resulting in your character landing on the ground).

Attacking the opponent between footstools is not supposed to affect this footstool counter. However, it does reset on certain opponents after Greninja footstools them and immediately connects a Dair. An example can be seen here in iStudying's set against ESAM at BEAST 6. You can see that Greninja is launched just as high as the first footstool with the second one, even though he is only supposed to be launched at half the height.

The characters affected by this bug are:



Miis were tested at guest size.

There are no real similarities between these characters other than most of them being short, but Palutena and Mewtwo aren't short and there are other short characters (such as Greninja and Olimar) who aren't affected by the bug. I don't know exactly what causes the bug, but it must have something to do with Greninja being registered as having landed after the first Dair against these characters, even though he hasn't landed. Could be because their "getting footsool'd" animations make them dip really low to the ground. When Greninja double jumps off them during the Dair, the jump might technically occur below or at stage level, hence the game thinks he has landed.

All of these characters can still be hit with the Bair jab lock follow-up, as demonstrated in the above video where iStudying performs it on ESAM's Pikachu. The difference is that the percent ranges where they can be hit with Bair are usually higher.

Floaty characters are easier to hit with Bair at the same percents as regular characters. are particularly easy to Bair at the same percents as everyone else. Whilst Pikachu isn't floaty, he has a wide hurtbox and bounces quite high upon hitting the ground with a missed tech. Note that Jigglypuff's air speed is so good that she will usually be able to drift away from your Bair follow-up.

I hope everyone finds this list useful.

 

[Igneo]

What minute it is?
As my English is not very good, I would like to know the exact minute to understand it better and not confused with someone else.



It would be great if you see a mistake, correct me in my English :D

 

[KERO]

Did some testing out of curiosity, and I'm positive that your hypothesis is correct regarding Greninja briefly being recognized by the game as grounded if the Dair goes low enough after the hit. From what I'm seeing slowing things down to 1/4 speed, past a certain point in the Dair (assuming it connects), the bounce animation is programmed to begin regardless of any other states (meaning it overrides landing lag) besides being hit (if Greninja reaches the ground before this point, he suffers regular Dair lag). It should be noted that during and for a few frames after this point is reached, Greninja is still in the regular Dair animation, however. I'm guessing that when this occurs, Greninja doesn't reach the ground during the period where he would suffer Dair lag but instead reaches it just after the point where the bounce animation is set to begin regardless of his state afterward, which results in him technically considered grounded very briefly, but as the Dair bounce animation is set to override any other, it doesn't appear as though he is at any point (this probably isn't dissimilar from how Sub works in this regard). I think this might actually be how Koopa Claw worked in Brawl as well, but I could be wrong on that.

In any case, I did a bit of testing myself, and a fresh footstool into immediate Dair on Palutena isn't resulting in this. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong? I do know that if you Dair close enough to the ground against any character, though, and you get the bounce animation while having briefly transitioned to a grounded state, then the footstool counter resets regardless of character.

Edit: Also, I think a big reason this works on some short characters and not others is because you rise higher against some characters than others in addition to what you said about some characters dipping low during footstool. Can confirm this does not work on 1.0.3 Greninja, either. Can confirm that footstool counter did reset on all the characters you mentioned besides Palutena when I did a footstool to immediate Dair. I'm probably doing something wrong with Palu, though.

 

[bc1910]

We're you testing at 0%? I was testing at 90-100%, or basically where the footstool > Dair > footstool combo is actually useful (because you can Bair lock from it).

I retested and the bug does affect Palutena at higher percents where she gets launched off the ground. It doesn't affect her at 0% where the Dair doesn't cause any knockback. Probably due to some quirk in her hitstun animations. I'll add a note to the OP but since you shouldn't be doing double footstools on low percent opponents, I don't think this will be relevant in a real match.