Link's Nerfs Outweigh His Buffs

[Kienamaru]

Or is it just me? Nearly every aspect of his character has been toned down drastically.

Compared to Smash 4 Link:
Overall, his jabs, tilts, down Smash, Forward Aerial, Grabs, throws, Boomerang utility, and bombs are all worse.

He moves faster but so does everyone else on the roster, and I fear that Link is going to end up being the same character he was in Smash 4. Someone who sits in the middle of the roster and destroys anyone who moves slower than he does, but gets taken out by everyone else. Here's hoping he gets buffs in the upcoming patches like in 4.

 

[Tri Knight]

What I will say is that the mobility buffs helped him more than many others, at least from Smash4 to Ultimate. He feels better than he ever has. But hes far from perfect.

Personally, I dont mind the new bombs. The only thing hes lacking imo is decent frame data. His jab now has slower startup than his up-b. His only move UNDER frame 7 is his grab. Bomb-hit combos look great until you realize that you're only adding on an extra 1% of damage in those fancy looking combos where Peach/Daisy are doing something similar to a much higher result.

I like his new bombs from a trapping and killing perspective. Its a legitimate kill move, which is great! But his frame data is garbage. If they really want him to be relevant in the future, they need to buff his frame data. I'm talking start up frames, end lag, everything. Make him the actual sword fighter of the 3 Links. Right now, I'm much more confident fighting in close with Toon and Young than I do with Adult Link.

EDIT: Be reminded that at the very least, as of right now Link is consistently making top 8's in tournaments. People ARE putting in work with him. However, although I am speaking from a technical point of view, my opinion of Link still stands. His frame data is absolute garbage.

 

[Problem2]

I think I could handle this version of Link if he had a good burst movement option. Lots of traditionally slow moving characters like Ganondorf and peach have a strong fast dash attack to make up for it. Link’s dash attack is one of his slowest moves!

I’m trying to make a habit of run into jab instead, but man, I wish he still had his pre-smash 4 dash attack.

 

[Kienamaru]

Realistically, his bombs are worse than ever before. They deal less damage than every other Link's and if you compare them to Snake's C4, they deal less than a third of the damage, can't be detonated while someone is holding them, and actually lack the damage to break through any armor. Unlike Snake's C4 yet again, his bombs can be set off by opponents which hinders their setup potential. The lack of a zair and the fact that his bombs give him extreme diagonal recovery makes it to where bomb jumping is more risk than reward. (once again, see Snake or any of the other Links who get vertical recovery) Of all the characters to be hurt by their jab mixups being gone, Link in my opinion was hurt the most. No gale means that he's lost a ton of utility, and for whatever reason, his boomerang sends people too far for him to get any followups even at 0%. Every other Link gets free confirms from 0- 150ish or so.

 

[Tri Knight]

Realistically, his bombs are worse than ever before. They deal less damage than every other Link's and if you compare them to Snake's C4, they deal less than a third of the damage, can't be detonated while someone is holding them, and actually lack the damage to break through any armor. Unlike Snake's C4 yet again, his bombs can be set off by opponents which hinders their setup potential. The lack of a zair and the fact that his bombs give him extreme diagonal recovery makes it to where bomb jumping is more risk than reward. (once again, see Snake or any of the other Links who get vertical recovery) Of all the characters to be hurt by their jab mixups being gone, Link in my opinion was hurt the most. No gale means that he's lost a ton of utility, and for whatever reason, his boomerang sends people too far for him to get any followups even at 0%. Every other Link gets free confirms from 0- 150ish or so.

I agree overall. But Gale ****ing sucked.

 

[Kienamaru]

I disagree. Gale guarding gave Link one of his best options against people with god tier recoveries. He could also use it to (though rarely) send people back into his smashes. I remember hitting someone with side smash 2 and the gale pulls them back so I can perform another one. This boomerang doesn't interfere with recoveries, instead it hits people coming back which gives them back their recovery.

 

[Idon]

I disagree. Gale guarding gave Link one of his best options against people with god tier recoveries. He could also use it to (though rarely) send people back into his smashes. I remember hitting someone with side smash 2 and the gale pulls them back so I can perform another one. This boomerang doesn't interfere with recoveries, instead it hits people coming back which gives them back their recovery.

At the same time though it does interrupt characters which is pretty nice.

 

[Problem2]

the Gale Boomerang’s uses were incredibly niche though. Half the time, it helped the opponent approach you. I’m glad it is gone. The new boomerang may not lead it into guaranteed combos but it gets the job done for me. The return hit can set up for a lot of stuff and at the very least make some stuff you do a lot safer.

 

[Mi4Slayer]

What I will say is that the mobility buffs helped him more than many others, at least from Smash4 to Ultimate. He feels better than he ever has. But hes far from perfect.

Personally, I dont mind the new bombs. The only thing hes lacking imo is decent frame data. His jab now has slower startup than his up-b. His only move UNDER frame 7 is his grab. Bomb-hit combos look great until you realize that you're only adding on an extra 1% of damage in those fancy looking combos where Peach/Daisy are doing something similar to a much higher result.

I like his new bombs from a trapping and killing perspective. Its a legitimate kill move, which is great! But his frame data is garbage. If they really want him to be relevant in the future, they need to buff his frame data. I'm talking start up frames, end lag, everything. Make him the actual sword fighter of the 3 Links. Right now, I'm much more confident fighting in close with Toon and Young than I do with Adult Link.

EDIT: Be reminded that at the very least, as of right now Link is consistently making top 8's in tournaments. People ARE putting in work with him. However, although I am speaking from a technical point of view, my opinion of Link still stands. His frame data is absolute garbage.

I finally got to do some friendlies with my friend's peach yesterday and I got to agreed with this. Even tho I was badly spaced, My f-tilt was input way earlier and the animation almost in the middle of the move and I got interrupted so often, it was annoying. And the jab need to be faster and be cancelable again.

 

[Kienamaru]

the Gale Boomerang’s uses were incredibly niche though. Half the time, it helped the opponent approach you. I’m glad it is gone. The new boomerang may not lead it into guaranteed combos but it gets the job done for me. The return hit can set up for a lot of stuff and at the very least make some stuff you do a lot safer.

It guarantees confirms and a few combos if you can have it setup that way. Helping someone approach you with a gale was just as beneficial as it was a detriment if you weren't expecting it. You could pull people into disjointed hitboxes or Link's ranged grab. The gale the return hit would actually be worth something if Link could do jab mixups, but I don't think it's really good for much else. It deals around 3% and is extremely easy to avoid or shield because the return time isn't going to be varied. If you see it on screen you can react to it, or hit it out the air.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

I think a lot of Link's overall tools in this game aren't quite as good as they were in 4, but it really doesn't matter all that much since a lot of his moves have different applications than they did in 4. His Grab, for example, no longer has the amazing range it did in 4, making it worse for catching landings and rolls, but its a safer and more reliable option out of shield and in CQC situations due to its lower start-up and endlag. Losing Zair hurts since he lost one of his best zoning tools, but as a trade-off, he can now z-drop bombs more reliably without using Zair. Some of his moves like Jab and Spin attack are straight downgrades from Smash 4, but they still do their job adequately so it doesn't affect gameplay all that much.

His bombs in particular are a contentious topic since they are much harder to use than in 4, where they had incredible auto-combo potential into Up-Smash and Forward Air. Despite this, I think the new Bombs, like most of Link's tools in this game, serve a different purpose. Link's new Z-dropping mechanics let him still combo Z-dropped bombs into aerials and grabs (without exploding the bomb) and the bombs are still good for edgeguarding since Z-Dropped bombs can catch an opponent's jump and the explosion can kill at later percents. Where the new bombs truly shine, however, is stage control. In a majority of the matches I've played, I've basically been playing hot potato with my opponent, hitting the bomb back and forth using Link's arrows and Boomerang and forcing the opponent to either shield or grab the bomb when its near them. Even if they grab the bomb, it isn't all that big a deal since it limits the opponents option select, since they can't use their tilts or grab while holding it and most characters don't have quite as good as options as Link to z-drop it into aerials.

Overall, while this Link isn't quite on par with Smash 4 1.1.4 Link, I think he's in a much better spot than 1.0.0 Link (who if you recall, didn't even have grab combos and had a much less reliable up-smash and Forward air). I think Link in this game will be fine after a few QoL buffs.

 

[Tri Knight]

I think a lot of Link's overall tools in this game aren't quite as good as they were in 4, but it really doesn't matter all that much since a lot of his moves have different applications than they did in 4. His Grab, for example, no longer has the amazing range it did in 4, making it worse for catching landings and rolls, but its a safer and more reliable option out of shield and in CQC situations due to its lower start-up and endlag. Losing Zair hurts since he lost one of his best zoning tools, but as a trade-off, he can no z-drop bombs more reliably without using Zair. Some of his moves like Jab and Spin attack are straight downgrades from Smash 4, but they still do their job adequately so it doesn't affect gameplay all that much.

His bombs in particular are a contentious topic since they are much harder to use than in 4, where they had incredible auto-combo potential into Up-Smash and Forward Air. Despite this, I think the new Bombs, like most of Link's tools in this game, serve a different purpose. Link's new Z-dropping mechanics let him still combo Z-dropped bombs into aerials and grabs (without exploding the bomb) and the bombs are still good for edgeguarding since Z-Dropped bombs can catch an opponent's jump and the explosion can kill at later percents. Where the new bombs truly shine, however, is stage control. In a majority of the matches I've played, I've basically been playing hot potato with my opponent, hitting the bomb back and forth using Link's arrows and Boomerang and forcing the opponent to either shield or grab the bomb when its near them. Even if they grab the bomb, it isn't all that big a deal since it limits the opponents option select, since they can't use their tilts or grab while holding it and most characters don't have quite as good as options as Link to z-drop it into aerials.

Overall, while this Link isn't quite on par with Smash 4 1.1.4 Link, I think he's in a much better spot than 1.0.0 Link (who if you recall, didn't even have grab combos and had a much less reliable up-smash and Forward air). I think Link in this game will be fine after a few QoL buffs.

Yeah, if they buff his frame data a little I'm sure he'll be in a good spot. A psuedo-trap-swordfighter is what I'm waiting for from Link. Even just giving him better end lag on his more unsafe attacks would be a total game changer

 

[WeretigerX]

I've been pleasantly surprised at how good Link feels after getting the hang of him. I skipped Wii-U so I don't know how he felt in Smash 4, but he was my secondary character in Brawl. I miss his DAC, but Link doesn't feel like every battle is uphill against so many characters like he felt in Brawl. The new bomb is pretty good, but it did take some learning curve. I do hope they buff it a bit so that you can detonate it while the enemy is holding it. The blast radius is nice and makes for a really good edgeguard against certain vertical recoveries like Ganon. It's a lot safer to use than going off the edge yourself and risk a stage spike or whiffing. If you gimp Ganon, you can kill at the lowest of percentages with the bomb. Same thing with the Belmonts, Chrom, Roy, etc.

Recently, I've been getting good mileage from Fair. It has good priority and combos with a direct boomerang hit at low-mid percentages depending on the enemy. It also hits like a truck and kills at decent percentages. Link's Fair in Brawl was okay, but never seemed to connect like in this game. I've also never seen his Nair have this much priority.

I haven't declared a main yet, but Link is one of the frontrunners. If he gets buffed in the right ways, he may end up being it.

 

[Kienamaru]

Personally, I think Link desperately NEEDS the following buffs.

Jab 1 Startup 8 -> 7
Jab 2 FAF 25 -> 20 (to allow jab mixups)
FTilt- Startup 16 -> 15, FAF 39 -> 37 (Reverted to Smash 4)
Down Smash- FAF 56 -> 49 (endlag reverted to Smash 4
Remote Bomb Pull FAF 39 -> 25 (same as Snake)
Remote Bomb Non Explosion Dmg 1% -> 3% Z drop/ 4% Toss/ 5% Smash Toss
Remote Bomb Detonation FAF 39 -> 39 - 33 (same as Snake)
Ability to detonate bombs while held by opponents (more or less same as Snake)

These would put him in a bit of a better position and give him back a large amount of the potential that he had in every game since Melee.

 

[MrFrigid]

Personally, I think Link desperately NEEDS the following buffs.

Jab 1 Startup 8 -> 7
Jab 2 FAF 25 -> 20 (to allow jab mixups)
FTilt- Startup 16 -> 15, FAF 39 -> 37 (Reverted to Smash 4)
Down Smash- FAF 56 -> 49 (endlag reverted to Smash 4
Remote Bomb Pull FAF 39 -> 25 (same as Snake)
Remote Bomb Non Explosion Dmg 1% -> 3% Z drop/ 4% Toss/ 5% Smash Toss
Remote Bomb Detonation FAF 39 -> 39 - 33 (same as Snake)
Ability to detonate bombs while held by opponents (more or less same as Snake)

These would put him in a bit of a better position and give him back a large amount of the potential that he had in every game since Melee.

Completely agree, although I miss the grapple. LOVE the boomerang/bombs though. The new bombs are so clutch.

 

[jeff d]

Weird. I personally think Link is amazing and in a good spot right now. Some top pros think hes top tier, like top 5: MkLeo and Salem. We've had Link make good results at big Ultimate tournaments like 7th at Glitch 6, 2nd at Calyptus Cup, 3rd at Smash Con and Izaw 9th at Valhalla.

Sure his frame data is lacking a bit and plays extremely different than smash 4, but he definitely is better than his Smash 4 iteration.

His bomb has way more utility than old bombs ever did. Z drop combos. Ledge trapping: get up attack, roll, jump, shorthop fair? all covered by bomb. Amazing and safe edgeguarding tool off stage. The meta is edgeguarding and ledge trapping in this game and the bomb is an extremely good tool in both of those aspects. His bomb recovery can be INSANE - please watch this(https://twitter.com/VisvyaSSB/status/1084214732746305544 ). Bomb hit true combos into explosion too.

LINK also has a TRUE INFINITE DEATH COMBO https://twitter.com/MrDanishButterC/status/1080966603582332928

Frame 3 jump squat in this game allows his 7 frame nair to be safe most of the time. He has one of the fastest grabs in the game now. His grab game is still great and now add the new bombs - combos can be extended further. (https://twitter.com/DRAK_Umbra/status/1080303873594671104)

Gale boomerang was trash. Sure there was galeguarding, but edgeguarding with the new bomb is a lot safer and can guarantee kills. The returning hitbox of the new boomerang can allow unexpected kill setups as well.

His extra sword range buff was insane as its longer than Chrom/Lucina's now: making upsmash, fair, upB and upair solid killing tools that are scary. Smash 4 Fair was a joke.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I think this topic hasn't aged well. It was clearly created as a knee jerk reaction to Link's performance in Ultimate despite the game being less than one month old at the time. Definitely should have labbed and played the character mor.

Like, in what world is Gale Boomerang considered better than Boomerang?
People have said this already, but its uses were very niche. Having a hitbox on the way back beats having a windbox. Just compare Gale Boomerang to Toon Link's Side Special, and you'll see that he gets more mileage out of it.

And I see that the remote Bombs were severely underrated. You compared them to Snake's C4 which is understandable but also a bit misguided. Of course they are not going to have the same kill power as C4, because that would make them stupid. But they are more versatile for setting traps and edgeguarding. Even if they are not as strong as Snake's C4, their power is still respectable when covering ledge options.

 

[Shira907]

Realistically, his bombs are worse than ever before. They deal less damage than every other Link's and if you compare them to Snake's C4, they deal less than a third of the damage, can't be detonated while someone is holding them, and actually lack the damage to break through any armor. Unlike Snake's C4 yet again, his bombs can be set off by opponents which hinders their setup potential. The lack of a zair and the fact that his bombs give him extreme diagonal recovery makes it to where bomb jumping is more risk than reward. (once again, see Snake or any of the other Links who get vertical recovery) Of all the characters to be hurt by their jab mixups being gone, Link in my opinion was hurt the most. No gale means that he's lost a ton of utility, and for whatever reason, his boomerang sends people too far for him to get any followups even at 0%. Every other Link gets free confirms from 0- 150ish or so.

You couldn't be more wrong in regards to Links bombs. Not only are they not worse than his previous bombs I'd even go as far as to say they are buff to his original bombs and are one of the most important tools in his kit. Bombs are so incredibly versatile now. Being able to detonate whenever is a huge advantage. The problem is you're comparing them too much to snake's c4's even though there's so much more you can do with them. Projectile, Pressure, Stage control, Recovery, Its also one of the best edge guarding tools in the game as well and can be useful for ledge trapping, and many other situations. You are greatly under estimating their usage and how good they really are.