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Link Vs. Shiek matchup

JOJO94

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
35
Location
Canada, Quebec, Montreal region.
NNID
Vintage_Rider
I got destroyed by a chain grabbing Shiek. The Shiek player also went on saying he played Shiek because it was easy, and it ticked me off. But I see it. I see that this matchup is easy for Shiek, which pisses me off even more. I am here asking for help. Please share your strategies against Shiek. I can play against Falcon, Fox or Falco, even though I get rekt by good ones, I can still have fun. But I can't bear it against Shiek. I can't see any way to to have any stage control whatsoever. I need a new way to look at things. Please share some tips. How can I give Shiek a harder time?! Even if just slightly harder! I usually play rather aggressive (for a Link) and for style (ledge cancel Up B for edgeguarding and combo setups and ledge cancel ZAirs) but I don't care if I have to be the biggest campy B**ch against Shiek. Plz h4lp. All I want is to git gud.
 
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Team Plasma N

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
190
Location
Unova Region
3DS FC
3952-8297-3456
Hey there, I still struggle against good Sheik players too, I know the feeling. But I guess I'll try to see what I can do to help you out.

I find Sheik to be Link's second hardest MU (only outclassed by Falcon). The worst part of the MU imo is probably the chaingrab tbh. She's called a low tier slayer for a reason. Always pick a stage with platforms, avoid FD as much as you can. Battlefield, FoD, and Yoshi's are probably Link's best stages vs Sheik imo. PS might be alright since the platforms are low enough, but be careful of those jank transformations. Essentially the platforms are really important for escaping her chaingrab, try to DI and land onto them.

Treat this MU like you would the ICs MU: don't get grabbed. Sheik has a somewhat harder time approaching when you're throwing stuff at her. Your jab should also be fast enough to stop her (well, and most MUs imo) in their tracks. If you get a grab on her, it's best to down throw her. Down throw to Up B usually hits at about 70%. Play especially careful in this MU.

Sorry if this is all over the place. Lord HDL's guide should have a more thought out paragraph about this MU. You can find his guide here: http://web.archive.org/web/20060710181112/http://www.superzetroid.com/LinkGuide.html

I hope to see what the other Link mains say, any information is valuable imo.
 
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squirrels4ev

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Messages
85
Location
Eugene, OR
First I'll say that in my opinion Sheik's chaingrab defines this matchup. If she is able to chaingrab you properly, you're going to be taking a lot of percent and end up offstage or being platform techchased. If she lands the fair techchase you'll be offstage anyways. Below a certain percent (somewhere around 20-30 I think) I'm pretty sure you can sometimes escape the chaingrab by nairing or jumping out. The other way to escape is by teching on a platform. Platform heights vary from stage to stage which is why I believe that this matchup in particular is heavily stage dependent. I always strike DL and BF and usually end up playing game 1 on FoD or FD.

I think DL is by far the worst stage in the matchup because the platforms are so high. She can CG you to upwards of 60% or so before you can tech a platform on this stage I think. Compare that to being able to tech on the inside of Yoshi's platforms at 11%. If you're getting chaingrabbed to that high a percent with platforms there anyways I think removing platforms from the matchup on FD is better than giving Sheik the ability to maneuver around your projectiles with platform movement. The width of the platforms on DL makes the uair techchasing less reliable, and the height of the top platform makes it more difficult to reach for uair chains. On FD there is no platform for Sheik to escape uair on, so it makes your punish game better while keeping hers about the same as on DL.

BF's platforms are a good height and width for techchasing on, but Sheik can still chaingrab you to a percent at which she can ftilt>fair you. I don't think you can tech the platforms here until the mid 40s at least. Another thing about this stage is that you can only hookshot the ledge safely (going for the "bowl" under the stage is very unsafe in general, but especially against a character as good at drop zone edgeguarding as Sheik), which means you can't mix up your aerial positioning for the hookshot. This makes it much easier for Sheik to aim her bair from the ledge when edgeguarding you. On other stages you can go lower and mess up her timing.

Sheik isn't very good coming down from above unless she is able to land some needles on you from a platform first. You can CC he late bair and late nair to probably around 35-45% or so, and that's all she will fall down with unless she has a read on your CC, then she might dair you or just empty hop down and grab you. You can shield grounded needles most of the time and can also use your Hylian Shield to block them if you don't have a bomb in hand. Be careful about shielding needles from the platform because the shield stun on fully charged needles is often enough to land next to you and combo into grab. If you get hit by that kind of needle you'll also usually get grabbed. Stay away from laggy commitments like approaching fairs (you can do retreating fairs if you don't get too obvious), dsmashes, and grabs. Focus on getting her percent up with bombs and boomerangs and then use those to combo or to get position below her. Jabs are good to keep her from just running up and grabbing you. Learning to DI dash attack, ftilt, fair, and dthrow are really important in this matchup. DI dash attack behind sheik as it sends you up and a little bit behind her. DI ftilt out and a little down to get as much distance as you can from her to make the fair harder. Fair you need to DI up and slightly out because it sends you out and slightly down. Just DIing straight up won't affect your trajectory at all. I'm not really sure what the best way to DI dthrow is. If the Sheik knows how to chaingrab it really isn't relevant which way you DI because she will always react and regrab you until you reach a platform unless she's bad.

Setups (some of these kill): You can shield grab Sheik's dsmash and her dash attack if the dash attack ends up in front of you. If she dash attacks through you you can up-B her OoS. Down-throw->upB is a solid setup. It works at a lot of percents but it's probably best around 85-105. You can also uthrow her and starting around 20% it becomes a 50-50 situation where she can jump out and then you're below her and she doesn't have a jump, or if she doesn't jump you can hit her with a move. You have to read it though until like 65% I think, at which point up-throw>uair works. If you go for an attack and she jumps she gets out for free and if your attack was laggy she can hit you back. If you don't go for an attack and try to wait out her jump she can just hit you on the way down. You can also try to bait Sheik into up-B OoS for kills by getting her to do a rising fair on your shield when you're on a platform. She will drift above you and you can just upB at that point and catch her falling into it.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
776
Location
sweden
First proceed through these steps:
1. Lie down
2. Take a deep breath
3. Try to think about a happy place
4. Cry

Then after that start thinking on how much a chain grabbing shiek deserves an unfun match. How okay it would be to camp the **** out of them. That baiting them to jump up to a platform so you easier can get in under and juggle them with repeated uair strings would feel so great. That what you need to do most of all is not getting grabbed.

Sounds like you want a defensive standpoint, I consider myself good at defensive play. Shiek is not able to pressure big areas like falco can with his lasers and fox and falcon can with their speed. You need to keep this in mind as this means there are places that are safe on the battlefield.

Usually the top platform is extreeeeeemely safe vs shiek, she isnt great at killing upwards and if she jump up there you can probably react to it, simplest option is jumping as she jumps and double jump when she does it. If she moves to a side platform you move to the other side platform. Simple but needs discipline. If you happen to have a bomb in hand you can throw it downwards at her as you jump away from her aproach. If you get good with reading the knockback direction of bomb blasts you can combo the downward thrown bomb into a uair and from there start a juggle.

Side platforms are safe from a chain grabbing perspective but lets her jump and attack you with aerials, in this situation its hard to react to the jump but you can react to the aerial. Meaning that if you shield you can get some nice OoS option either a simple UpB(get ready to DI if it misses) or something a bit more technical but certainly more safe and in most cases more rewarding, namely a shield drop nair/uair. You can also if you are on a platform try to go for the top platform, this is a bit risky if the shiek reads when and how you get there, make sure you change your rythm and route each time, throwing out a nair as you get there shouldn't hurt too often and makes any aerial from shiek a risk for her.

Its also very safe if you are at one edge and she is at the other. Obviously, make sure she gets to eat a rang or bomb if she tries to got closer.

The match should become slower if you successfully camps the shiek and she might resort to camp back. This is not a problem for you as you got superior fire power and can straight out of shield if you got a bomb in hand. There are a few standard options in a more campy atmosphere. If you got a bomb in hand and the shiek is loading needles or you anticipate needles you can shield, let her needles hit your shield and then just throw a bomb OoS. If shes starting to shield your projectiles a lot, just wait more, she shields, you wait, theres a timer on the shield. If she shino stalls you can throw even more stuff, a fun trick is to extend the lag from the shino stall with an arrow placed into the ground and try to use the extra frames to be able to hit her.

Lastly whenever you land a hit pull a bomb. Bombs will help you a lot against shiek.
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
The biggest things you want to learn for this matchup are these:

1) The primary grab followups:
- Up throw until are least around 60%. Below 30%, go for up tilt. Shiek must jump or get hit by it. Then Shiek is in the air without her double jump.
- Starting at 30%, you can up-throw into up-air. Same deal, she is stuck in the air above you.
- After 60ish%, you can do down-throw up-tilt or down-throw up-b.

2) Edge guarding:
- Shiek's recovery actually kind of sucks. You just need to know how to deal with it. The general flow is to steal the edge and do a regular get up timed so that you don't get hit by the explosion and Shiek can't grab the ledge. Then you chase her with a dair. It's more nuanced than this, but this will get you in the right direction.

3) Crouch Cancel (CC):
- Link and Shiek both suck against CC. Always hold down if you think you will get hit (this is actually applicable to all matchups lol). Note that this is primarily going to be useful when Shiek is in the air. You can't grab if you are in the air, so CC beats all her aerials until you are at high damage.

4) Trap Shiek in the air:
- Use horizontal bombs to cut off where Shiek will land if she is far away. If she is close, use up airs and up tilts. CC d-smash will also work if you missed with your attack and she goes for an aerial.

Obviously, there is more to it than that, but these are some things that will be quite helpful.

From my time playing with you / watching you play, I think you attack too much. Being aggressive is a bit too general for my liking. You seem to attack and then go for dangerous mixups at close range. This is not how you want to fight Shiek. You have to realise that getting shield grabbed means you messed up really bad.

You asked me how to "bait" with Link at that tournament and I couldn't really answer well. That is actually a massive question and can't really be answered in one sitting lol. Anyway, there is basically one main thing you need to do - watch your opponent. And that means you should also find spots where you CAN watch your opponent. Do a spaced fair and see what Shiek does (spaced so you hit with just the tip of your sword and do a backwards or standing jump - don't jump forward to do it). Throw out a jab after if you are worried they will do something like wavedash forward and grab. You have to give them time to do something here because that is where they must do something exploitable. You have to threaten like this before you can bait.

EDIT:
I meant to keep this short lol. It's a bit long, but hopefully helpful. Anyway, I have a recent match again Waz and I'm sure I can show you some stuff from it once it is uploaded.
 
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[yung] Link

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
31
Location
hyrule
NNID
herooftimelink
absolutely pick a stage with platforms (battlefield is obviously best) and really just try to get them with a boomerang and grab off of it, toss them onto a platform and rack up % with uairs. like really just abuse the **** out of uair lmao.
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
Damn. Seems like that one match from the tournament was lost lol. Anyway, surprisingly, I beat him very badly on FD (game 5 and his counterpick). I think it was a 3-stock, while the other games were mostly very close with high damage 2-stocks being the biggest victories.

From my experiences in the matchup, dreamland sucks badly (though maybe is better if you camp relentlessly). Up throw combos get interrupted by platforms. I don't know the exact percent, but there is a large window where you can start comboing normally where Shiek will instantly land on the platforms when you up throw from beneath them. It is also hard to pressure them when they are on the platform because you need to commit to a jump in order to hit them or their shield with anything. These problems are similar on battlefield.

FD seemed to be good because it exacerbated Shiek's problems in the matchup -> can't approach that well and gets stuck in the air off of just one up-throw. It also takes away some of her valuable recovery mixups making the edge guarding process even more streamlined. It was only one match, however. Though, I do plan to try banning dreamland instead of FD against Shiek for the next while, at least. I might even strike dreamland and battlefield instead of dreamland and FD.
 

Thor

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
2,009
Location
UIUC [school year]. MN [summer]
Stage order vs Sheik, in my opinion: Yoshi's > Battlefield >= FoD >= FD > PS >= Dreamland

Highly subject to change, to be sure, but I think Yoshi's is clearly better than the rest, and Pokémon and Dreamland strike me as worse. FD seems to really depend on the Sheik - the better their platform movement, the more it helps. Battlefield may move down the list because you lose vital tether mixups against Sheik [and she still edgeguards you for mostly free, but it helps]. I don't like DL much vs Sheik, but I have clutched out some sets vs her there so I dunno. If you platform tech chase well, this stage can be devastating for her. The obvious downside is that it takes longer to escape her CG via platforms.

Random thing: if Sheik is charging needles on the level with you [ex: same platform height or on FD], you can charge an arrow. Even partially charged, it beats all 6 needles and keeps going. Gimmicky, but it is hilarious and some Sheiks will even stop charging needles on the same level as you, a huge plus.

I'm gonna assume the others mostly covered stuff- just dropped in here for a quick post (well that and also the fact that Smashboards isn't getting along with my typing for some reason).
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
I feel like FOD might be better than battlefield, but not sure. I tend to like PS, but I will pick it after yoshi's and fountain for sure - I might put it above battlefield, but I suppose circle camping is a good thing for Link. Yoshi's is just a solid stage for Link. You can cover all the platforms well (especially the side platforms - up tilt and fair) and your recovery is basically maximised on this stage, minus the small kill box.
 

Wafer6866

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
230
Location
Bay Minette, Alahama
https://youtu.be/KU6c7EjKZUQ
In this set I'm playing a sheik player. I used Jiggs the first three matches though. The last two games I used Link and just tried to get on the platforms to bait him into leaving the ground, when that happened I tried to get underneath and juggle. You have to be careful when you're on platforms against sheik though. Anytime I got grabbed I di'd for the platform or the ledge.

Sheik is my worse mu though and I definitely don't play it right... I play how I want way to much instead of doing what I need to be doing
 
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SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
There was a more recent one that was bo5. I won 3-2 so it had a lot of stuff to look at. Seems like it was just sitting in twitch archives and got removed automatically before someone uploaded it :(
 
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