Link vs Sheik Matchup

[Thosman]

I'm a Link/Sheik main and i've been having a really hard time with the Sheik ditto and Link v Sheik matchup lately against my friend. I've been doing all the usual Link techniques, Up-B downgrab -> dair and the like, but nothing seems to work. If anyone has any tips that'll help me get the upper hand then please help.

 

[ITALIAN N1NJA]

Link is a zoner. Keep Sheik out. Do not let her near you. Do not get grabbed. Try and keep her in the air above you. Also take advantage of her mediocre recovery when edgegaurding her. Don't let Sheik rush you down.

 

[Thor]

To add to the above, ff/when she does get near you, try to crouch-cancel everything at low percents except dsmash [it's better than not doing so] and then either fsmash if she did something laggy [fsmash nearly always beats CCs because if they try to CC punish you can do swing number 2], grab, maybe jab [into the rapid jabs or a dsmash/dtilt], or just run away and try to reset spacing - you can pick other options [mixups are important], but these are usually safest or have highest reward. When she charges needles from afar, you should fullhop pull a bomb [preferably jumping to a platform], since bombs are amazing and can start combos, get you out of shield pressure, and help you recover if you're sent flying.

Try to DI ftilt/dash attack way away from her offstage if you get ftilted near the edge at high percents - recovering isn't easy, but if you DI toward the center of stage, you'll get faird or uair'd and just die anyway. This advice sort of doesn't apply on Yoshi's since that can kill you there, but that's only at really high percents.

 

[Thosman]

I've tried what you both have told me but I still cant defeat his Sheik. Are there any characters easy to learn that are good counter picks to Sheik?

 

[Thor]

I've tried what you both have told me but I still cant defeat his Sheik. Are there any characters easy to learn that are good counter picks to Sheik?

Fox or Falco Oh you said easy to learn.

If you just want a slightly better option you have several choices, while if you want an advantageous MU, I can't say I know enough to point you to one.

If you like CCing, I'd pick Roy, since his CC dtilt is dumb and he can reliably combo into moves. Needles mess with your recovery but you're actually somewhat difficult to interact with offstage otherwise [Sheik can do it with fair, but well-timed DED and occasional early Blazers (if you have good DI) can help avoid this issue]. I might consider trying Ike [ridiculously huge range and you have a huge sword for edgeguarding] or trying Mario [just good all-around, so probably doesn't do that bad? He's pretty easy to pick up in my opinion and from what I've seen], but this is purely guesswork, and I don't know who has an actually good Sheik MU besides Fox.

I'm sure he'll say my Roy/Ike/Mario suggestions are utter trash, but @Umbreon might be able to tell you Sheik's bad/even MUs so that you can have a counterpick for dealing with Sheik.

 

[Deleted member]

I've tried what you both have told me but I still cant defeat his Sheik. Are there any characters easy to learn that are good counter picks to Sheik?

no

just no basically

 

[Thor]

@ Thosman , if you ever liked ICs and are willing to practice the CGs and basic desyncs, I think ICs do well vs Sheik [basically the MU carried over from Melee except you can't wobble]. I'm not sure you like ICs and/or are willing to practice, but if you are... worth a shot.

 

[Heero Yuy]

What to do against Sheik:

1. Pick up your cursor and take it off Link.
2. Put it above one of the following characters: Fox, IC's, Roy, or Falco.

Sheik is by far Link's worst matchup in this patch, but of course you can pull through if you play your cards right. This matchup tests your zoning and projectile pressure ability - yes this means you can throw things a lot. Also, your main combo/kill setup against her will be dthrow --> grounded UpB. This combo is guaranteed at mid-high percents, so do work for that grab when the opportunity arises.

 

[Thor]

What to do against Sheik:

1. Pick up your cursor and take it off Link.
2. Put it above one of the following characters: Fox, IC's, Roy, or Falco.

Sheik is by far Link's worst matchup in this patch, but of course you can pull through if you play your cards right. This matchup tests your zoning and projectile pressure ability - yes this means you can throw things a lot. Also, your main combo/kill setup against her will be dthrow --> grounded UpB. This combo is guaranteed at mid-high percents, so do work for that grab when the opportunity arises.

What problems does Wolf suffer [that Fox and Falco do not] vs Sheik?

 

[Heero Yuy]

What problems does Wolf suffer [that Fox and Falco do not] vs Sheik?

I know nothing about the Wolf-Sheik MU at all...

 

[Plebiscuit]

I know nothing about the Wolf-Sheik MU at all...

Relevant discussion here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2z9885/project_matchup_2_wolf_vs_sheik/

 

[Thor]

Having played the MU, and as a player who shields a lot... punish all grabs as hard as possible, and do what you can to dissuade the grab. Sheik gets nearly free followups from grabs and her tech chases/any whiffed DI (bad DI on bthrow gives her DACUS tipper usmash <_<) and her grab is quick with decent range. Meanwhile her neutral otherwise is meh, but Link can actually keep up if you can force grab off the table.

I played a guy ranked above me on the PR who had a pocket Sheik that I had seen do good work vs others, but he didn't grab much. I also have played grab-heavy Sheiks, and a good Sheik who's in the middle but slightly grab-heavy. The grab-heavy Sheik kept it somewhat close despite me being a better overall player [as shown in Melee and PM multiple times], although I wasn't on top of things (and if the video is put up to youtube I can link me zero-deathing his Sheik :] ). The mid-range Sheik I feel like I have to win neutral maybe 80% of the time to win, somewhat less if my punish game is on-point (this is also due to Link's gimpability and his efficiency there - if Link had, say, Pit's recovery (or even maybe like Lucario or Snake or something), then losing neutral would be less punishing). Vs the Sheik I played who was considered (easily) the best of them and who wasn't that grab heavy, I could win neutral maybe 60% of the time and win (I lost but some nerves and also not realizing he just wasn't grabbing much). So if you can come up with any ways to stop grabs, do so. Boomerang behind her and bombs in the hand help this (as does comboing her), but those things aren't terribly easy to set up (and you don't want to waste resources - I've started to realize I need to change how I play, mainly in viewing the rang less as a renewable resource to be deployed at will, and more of a way to temporarily cover holes while inducing new ones, or as a pseudo-punish (either combo or use it for scratch damage when I can't punish their mistake or predictability).

 

[DethM]

Switch to Fox.

 

[Tocaraca2]

Link's Hylian Shield blocks Sheik's needles. This allows him to make Sheik approach, which he can punish due to superior range and an amazing keep-away game. Sheik is also fairly light so a Side Smash will kill her earlier than mid-weights and heavy-weights, however she is a fast-faller so Up Smash won't KO her as early as you'd think. Also, Down Throw at very low percent will result in you probably getting punished by her, so don't use that too often, unless you can read her well.
Never mind, this is PM not Sm4sh. xD