Link Training Plan to Improve!

[DjiBy]

Hi Guys,

I will get straight to the point. I am starting Link and when I saw Saus vs The Moon, I fell in love with Link (and Saus is sooooo good). I been playing SSBM for a year basically and I love to put down structured training plan for the characters of the cast.

In short, I would like to start a training plan thread for Link, putting all together the practice regimen of all of you, altogether. Here is what I have for Link right now:

In VS mode, assuming 20XX, enable miss L cancel display and color overlay(for hitstun display), put time to 4:00 min:

1. Movement warm-up: DD, WD, WD OoS, Wavelanding
2. SHFFL training: SHFFL nair/bair/dair/uair/fair (also spaced/low on CPU on shield)
3. OoS/Defense training: VS CPU lvl1-3, Auto-Cancel bair Oos->utilt, retreating nair OoS, space fair->utilt OoS, bair waveland
4. Boomerang training: VS CPU lvl1-3, hit the CPU from differant platform/distance with the boomerang ONLY
5. Bomb training: VS CPU lvl1-3, hit the CPU from differant platform/distance with the bombs ONLY. Good for JC Fthrow/Uthrow
6. Bombs/Boomerang finisher training: VS CPU lvl1-3, damage with bombs and boomerang ONLY. However, practice dair finishers when % is high enough
7. CG/Grabs combos on fast-fallers (Fox, Falco, Falcon)
8. CG/Grabs combos on floaties/mid-floaties (Sheik, Marth, Peach)
9. Aggressive + UpB training: VS CPU lvl1-3, go on the offensive and when % is high enough, finish with UpB OoS or running JC UpB
10. Ledge play: Ledge stall, bomb ledge grab, ledgewaveland →sheild, Fair/dair/nair from ledge
11. Ledgecancel aerials
12. Sheilddrop uair
13. FJ Nair Sheild Pressure + DJC aerial

That's the main points I think I should practice as a new Link and could

Any comments or any missing points?

Thank you all and let's give Link some life in the forum.

 

[Icyo]

Besides basic movement/tech practice(wavedashing, L-cancelling, etc.), it helps if you practice punish game elements on a real person. Even on 20XX, comboing CPU's is drastically different than playing a human. It will help you realize sooner what things you can/can't do. I've made the mistake of spending too much time comboing CPU's and then not being able to do half that stuff on an opponent.

 

[Thor]

SHFFL bair is pretty good. HOWEVER, SH bair waveland is amazing for spacing and relatively safe on shield [it's technically not at like -8 on shield or something, but punishing that when Link is sliding away isn't easy, and you have other mixups]. You can also SH bair double jump into any other aerial which is awesome (the "other mixups"). SH bair waveland up+b can combo depending on DI and is a great way to get kills, especially if they decide after survival DIing a bair to try to hold away to get away from you.

Get a perfect ledgedash [at least be able to ledgedash into shield while fully invincible] now - I don't have one yet and am trying to put in more work to get one, but from bad/little practice mine aren't and that can make getting off the ledge very difficult. If you are perfect you can invincible ledgedash into dsmash and the first frame of hitboxes on dsmash will be out [or the second frame of spin attack hitboxes if you want]. You already have ledgewaveland, but I think that there's a lot more to it than that.

Shield dropping needs to be on that list - Link's fastest OoS in Melee is 9 frames at spin attack OoS [8 frame startup + 1 frame of jumpsquat], and nair OoS is 10 frames, while grab is 11, and wavedash takes 16 frames to be able to act again [so if you do wavedash OoS jab, that's 22 frames or more]. Link's OoS options being so limited are one of his crucial flaws, but shielddrop nair if done perfectly is frame 5, and shield drop uair is frame 6 if done perfectly. However, even just doing empty shield drops can get you out of shield pressure that Link must otherwise either in-shield-smash-DI [very hard], roll out of, or spotdodge/hold shield and hope they mess up.

Although not NECESSARY, platform-cancelling nair or uair is amazing - platform cancelled nairs [when nair is fresh] is an option that beats shieldgrabs [nair is -1 on shield and so if you fall and nair perfectly, you are at -6 between nairs, and grab is frame 7], but more than that, the pressure is difficult to deal with even for those with options [except Bowser/Samus, who have up+b, which can still be risky] and it can set up extremely well for a grab. Uair is -6 on shield so it's not nearly as good, but it can be amazing for comboing. I think this would go near the bottom of your list of stuff, but it looks awesome and it's actually highly useful if you can do it consistently and are on platforms a lot.

To see platform cancelled nair in action [and also probably the best Link combo video to date], watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHowzofr4Es

Also, note that the things I listed are pretty difficult, so don't be disheartened if you can't get them all right away, or even quickly - I can't do any of the stuff listed in practical use [in tournament] except sometimes I get the ledgedash right and I will sometimes SH DJ bair [I don't shield drop unless I explicitly think to do so more than just weighing options I have, and am not consistent at it, and I don't platform cancel aerials intentionally or SH bair waveland basically ever]. However, since you want advice, I'm offering it so you can do what should be done.

You should also learn to space aerials low on shield when possible [to make them safer] (I am okay at this but still do a very dubious job at times) and ledge-cancelling aerials, especially dair [this makes it much safer to throw out since you cut the landing lag to almost zero].

As one last note, if you SH fair and don't fastfall it, you can get both hits of fair to come out - the second hit is weaker and is a pop-up hit that can be useful for connecting a uair or something.

As far as boomerang placement goes... being able to place it where you want is important, so aim at AI if you want, but it's not always [in fact, I think it's probably a majority of the time not] about aiming at the person but at about aiming at a space you want to close off or occupy with a hitbox so that you can zone effectively. That's definitely oversimplifying how to use boomerang, but this has already gotten super long.

There's a lot more to Link than just this stuff, but this should give plenty to practice. Actually playing real people is EXTREMELLY important for just improving fundamentals, learning to read, etc., so don't skimp on that in favor of just training.

EDIT: Forgot the most important part: Good luck!

 

[DjiBy]

Wow thank you very much for the advices and to take time to write such a long post!
Indeed, I think I forgot some good points.

I should definitly add sheild drop uair. Very useful in game tool however I lack consistency for this.
Also, regarding Bair, I do know that it can be wavelanded but I was never able to land one. Any hint of getting the bair out asap? Maybe using z?

Also, the perfect ledgedash + sheild is awsome. I also think that fair can also be safe from the ledge.

The ledge cancelled aerials is a sure thing however platform cancelled nair seem very situational to me but it does look incredible. Is it that difficult to master?

I will edit my post and Integrate those crucial points. Thanks!

 

[Thor]

Wow thank you very much for the advices and to take time to write such a long post!
Indeed, I think I forgot some good points.

I should definitly add sheild drop uair. Very useful in game tool however I lack consistency for this.
Also, regarding Bair, I do know that it can be wavelanded but I was never able to land one. Any hint of getting the bair out asap? Maybe using z?

Also, the perfect ledgedash + sheild is awsome. I also think that fair can also be safe from the ledge.

The ledge cancelled aerials is a sure thing however platform cancelled nair seem very situational to me but it does look incredible. Is it that difficult to master?

I will edit my post and Integrate those crucial points. Thanks!

Reminder that even just shield-drop out of shield pressure is still amazing. Don't worry about always getting a uair, just try to make sure you can shield drop first. If you do attempt shield drop uairs, I think c-sticking them makes it easier [not sure, but it would seem to be the case].

If you c-stick aerials, try a tap jump bair waveland. If you don't, I recommend practicing it by simply using your jump button and immediately holding back and mashing A [since you will just do one bair], then once the bair comes out, hold either direction and press L/R right before you touch the ground [press it when you'd normally L-cancel or even later]. Technically it's possible to do the waveland attempt early enough to where if you attempt a perfect waveland you'll just airdodge right above the ground, but the frame window is small [and yes this tech is difficult]. It might help to try to time it as the frame before you land for hitting L/R, mainly because it really is that precise a timing [I think Link has a 3 frame window for this, or maybe less]. I don't think Z will help... wouldn't that just lead to a jump-cancelled grab?

Platform-cancelled nair IS situational and it's not easy to do [I can platform cancel one sometimes and got two in a row once, although I only messed with it for maybe 15 minutes]. However, if you want to be the most technical Link, it's not a bad idea to learn. I would recommend deprioritizing it for now [that is, don't practice this until you can do everything else really well]. If you get really good you can even platform cancel uair [uair is frame 5 so it's a little slower than nair, but still can be platform cancelled... which means you could shielddrop platform cancelled uair to basically go from being shield pressured to a great combo opportunity! However I don't think even SAUS can do this super consistently, I might be wrong though.]. However, it's definitely less useful than things like shielddropping and invincible ledgedashes.

Fair from ledge is good but it's punishable [Fox and Falco can often wait on a platform and drop through bair, or jump out of range of fair and then bair you in the endlag]. Invincible ledgedash into shield is not punishable with anything except grab and shield pressure. So when you do fair from ledge, be sure to check where your opponent is - it's a bad option if they're on a platform above you [which seems obvious, but I do it a little bit too much and I've seen even good Links do it before, where they think it'll hit and they get outspaced and punished hard].

 

[ChivalRuse]

If I ever practice Link the way I've wanted to (too many distractions nowadays) I would spend a huge chunk of time just wavedashing with Link. Most humans do not wavedash at the fastest speed possible nor act as soon as possible after the wavedash ends. Link's ground movement is the biggest thing lacking in his current meta in my opinion.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Dont make UpB your main finisher, its unsafe. Fsmash and dair is what you should prefer. That said UpB is still nice sometimes.

Don't forget turnarounds, like turnaround utilt after a SHFFL fair or turnaround dsmash after SHFFL bair.

Happy training

 

[Dextrose]

SHFFL bair is pretty good. HOWEVER, SH bair waveland is amazing for spacing and relatively safe on shield [it's technically not at like -8 on shield or something, but punishing that when Link is sliding away isn't easy, and you have other mixups]. You can also SH bair double jump into any other aerial which is awesome (the "other mixups"). SH bair waveland up+b can combo depending on DI and is a great way to get kills, especially if they decide after survival DIing a bair to try to hold away to get away from you.

@ Thor I've seen you post a lot about Links b-air tech like SH b-air DJ and SH b-air wave-land, but I swear to you I cant pull this off for nothing, I cant even wave-land after a full hop b-air. Do you have a video of reference or can you make one so i can see how it looks?
BTW speaking of bair, I feel like its one of Links better moves. It's one of the better moves that lead to u-tilt (best when used only the first hit imo) and after a b-air you can pivot (or just turn around, I'm not sure which one is better/faster) into d-smash, jab, and grab.

 

[Thor]

@ Thor I've seen you post a lot about Links b-air tech like SH b-air DJ and SH b-air wave-land, but I swear to you I cant pull this off for nothing, I cant even wave-land after a full hop b-air. Do you have a video of reference or can you make one so i can see how it looks?
BTW speaking of bair, I feel like its one of Links better moves. It's one of the better moves that lead to u-tilt (best when used only the first hit imo) and after a b-air you can pivot (or just turn around, I'm not sure which one is better/faster) into d-smash, jab, and grab.

<_<

This is what I get for playing Melee and PM.

I need to apologize - in PM you can interrupt IASA frames with airdodges, in Melee you can't. So you actually CAN'T waveland out of SH bair (someone can re-correct me if I'm wrong).

You CAN double jump [I just tested to be safe], but the timing is tight. Link's SH is 32 frames and bair has IASA on frame 30, and there's the gravity glitch messing things up (I think?), so you have to be almost perfect with the timing. If you can't land seem to get it even once, you should SH, do a bair ASAP [c-stick it if you have to], then mash X and Y to see it come out [the animation should be recognizable]. You could also SH bair DJ waveland, but you can't waveland out of it [and I now need to go look for and edit posts to fix my idiotic mistake...]. For an example in PM, 4:00: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRXcWNQMsLo

You can waveland out of a fullhop bair, although I don't know how practical that is. I don't know if perfect wavelands are feasible, but you can see that a waveland is possible by simplying full hopping, inputting a bair, then mashing L or R - you'll see Link airdodge, which means that then you just have to input a waveland motion.

 

[DjiBy]

I tested the complete regimen today. It does help indeed to have a fix plan. It breaks pattern and help you, as an example, to throw boomerang in a situation you would throw a nair.

Also, I found spaced jab jab utilt very neat pressure. Nair and bair OoS also a core defense move. Utilt sheild drop is a must to master. Also, having good waveland speed you up a little bit.

I think an important point I should add in the agressive section: Full hop nair then DJC aerial. (took this from J666 games).

Also, if Fsmash sheild, delay the second hit and wait for sheild dropping!

 

[Thor]

I tested the complete regimen today. It does help indeed to have a fix plan. It breaks pattern and help you, as an example, to throw boomerang in a situation you would throw a nair.

Also, I found spaced jab jab utilt very neat pressure. Nair and bair OoS also a core defense move. Utilt sheild drop is a must to master. Also, having good waveland speed you up a little bit.

I think an important point I should add in the agressive section: Full hop nair then DJC aerial. (took this from J666 games).

Also, if Fsmash sheild, delay the second hit and wait for sheild dropping!

You can also just full hop nair -> nair or uair as you land. You CAN double jump, but one isn't required. If you time a fastfall carefully, you get to do cool stuff like last frames of old nair -> first frame of new nair as you land.

Utilt is -9 on shield at best [that's hitting with the back half], so jab jab utilt is kinda... eh... fantastic way to shut down someone's delayed OoS response, but I can't see this being practical (but I'd be elated if you could prove me wrong!)

 

[DjiBy]

You are right about the full hop nair, the DJC isn't required but it often help to dodge sheild grab on sheild.

I also agree with you with Utilt. My wording is probably wrong, its not for pressure but a more of a nice follow up out of jab.

I could aslo follow this by a question: any good follow up after jab of jab jab? Maybe jab jab jab the best way to go?

 

[Dextrose]

Would it be accurate to say that a rule of thumb to DJC Bair from the ground (not jumping of platforms) is to not fast fall your bair? And also I feel that if you're gonna DJC a nair, you have more control if you don't fast fall (wwhen jumping from the ground, not platforms).

 

[ChivalRuse]

Legitimately, if we can move faster with Link than we currently are, the character will become much stronger. Link has some great zoning tools with bair, fair, utilt, and jab that can be used out of movement. The movement will also help us get into better position for our projectile play.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Links bair autocancels if you dont FF it. So even if you want to be on the ground afterwards you benefit from making it a quick rising bair without fast fall.

 

[Dextrose]

Legitimately, if we can move faster with Link than we currently are, the character will become much stronger. Link has some great zoning tools with bair, fair, utilt, and jab that can be used out of movement. The movement will also help us get into better position for our projectile play.

But what movement does link actually have access to, other than wavedash, wavelands, and shield drops (the basics)? His dash and running is slow (one of his downfalls as a character), which makes it not worth it to use in neutral or as a way of approaching. With a bad run/dash, he doesn't have access to a lot of other tech and movement options. So what doest link have going for him movement wise?

 

[ChivalRuse]

I discovered a technique. I'm calling it "waverunning".

You basically do Link's walking animation by holding down and forward (his walk is super fast, almost as fast as his run) and wavedash by just jumping and pressing airdodge (no need to angle the control stick for the wavedash because you're already holding the correct angle).

Application: Link travels VERY far in a short amount of time. You can travel across the stage at a much quicker speed than running and have access to all of your grounded options because of the wavedash.

(Edit: why this technique is good. Because you optimize Link's speed. By holding down and forward, you are essentially buffering a walk at all times, so that as soon as the wavedash ends, you start walking again)

 

[Dextrose]

Links bair autocancels if you dont FF it. So even if you want to be on the ground afterwards you benefit from making it a quick rising bair without fast fall.

Does a SH or FH non FF bair autocancel?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yes, both do. You can fast fall the full hop bair and it will auto cancel if you do the aerial early enough.

 

[Dextrose]

Yes, both do. You can fast fall the full hop bair and it will auto cancel if you do the aerial early enough.

So that means I don't have to l cancel it right? I never really understood autocancels.

 

[Bravo_10]

I discovered a technique. I'm calling it "waverunning".

You basically do Link's walking animation by holding down and forward (his walk is super fast, almost as fast as his run) and wavedash by just jumping and pressing airdodge (no need to angle the control stick for the wavedash because you're already holding the correct angle).

Application: Link travels VERY far in a short amount of time. You can travel across the stage at a much quicker speed than running and have access to all of your grounded options because of the wavedash.

(Edit: why this technique is good. Because you optimize Link's speed. By holding down and forward, you are essentially buffering a walk at all times, so that as soon as the wavedash ends, you start walking again)

How far down-forward do you need to hold? Do you just go to the notch? With as long as Link's jumpsquat is, I'd think you'd be better off just repeatedly perfect wavedashing across the stage.

/edit: Might as well reply to some other things too. Autocanceling means that you just land with normal jump landing lag, so l-canceling is unnecessary. Also, isn't is possible for Link to do a SH bair and get a double jump hair off before you land? Or can only Young Link do that? I've never gotten it to work with either character because I'm slow, but I know for dead certain that Young Link is capable of this.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Believe me, if we're being strictly pragmatic, this is the fastest way for Link to move. You angle the control stick as close to horizontal as possible (~90 degrees, but slightly downward). This way you get the longest wavedashes possible. You continue to hold the stick on that position and Link will buffer a walk after the wavedash ends and as soon as you see the walk animation you can wavedash again.

@ Dextrose Correct. You don't need to l-cancel an aerial if it autocancelled.

 

[Thor]

How far down-forward do you need to hold? Do you just go to the notch? With as long as Link's jumpsquat is, I'd think you'd be better off just repeatedly perfect wavedashing across the stage.

/edit: Might as well reply to some other things too. Autocanceling means that you just land with normal jump landing lag, so l-canceling is unnecessary. Also, isn't is possible for Link to do a SH bair and get a double jump hair off before you land? Or can only Young Link do that? I've never gotten it to work with either character because I'm slow, but I know for dead certain that Young Link is capable of this.

You can SH bair and get a double jump out. If you want to see it, it's probably easiest to go to 1/4 or 1/2 speed and then jump, hold back and mash A, then once bair starts, mash X and Y.

 

[Dextrose]

Believe me, if we're being strictly pragmatic, this is the fastest way for Link to move. You angle the control stick as close to horizontal as possible (~90 degrees, but slightly downward). This way you get the longest wavedashes possible. You continue to hold the stick on that position and Link will buffer a walk after the wavedash ends and as soon as you see the walk animation you can wavedash again.

Even with a slightly farther wavedash (and an easy to do moonwalk), i honestly dont see link having any good options with movement. Even with your waverunning technuiqe, i dont see it changing up links movement that much. Not to discredit you or anything ["waverunning" is prob. links more effective wavedash, but idk how it will fair to have to walk everytime you "waverun" (haven't tried it out in an actual match yet)] , im just giving my honest opinion on links movement and how even "waverunning" wont really give any big changes.

 

[Team Plasma N]

The technique seems a lot like surf wavedashing, as demonstrated here https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HH8FYFUDJhY#t=91 . I've taken quite a liking to it especially when combining with with dash dancing. Overall learning this along with making use of wavelands helps with Link's overall speed.

 

[ChivalRuse]

The speed burst it adds is VERY noticeable. Believe me, I focus my gameplay around movement.

 

[SAUS]

Dont make UpB your main finisher, its unsafe. Fsmash and dair is what you should prefer. That said UpB is still nice sometimes.

I think using up-b as your main finisher is fine. The real issue is fishing for finishers. You can't do it as Link. Fishing for kills with up-b will almost always make you lose badly.

When your opponent is at high damage, that is when you camp harder. Boomerang and bomb immediately put them out of position and sometimes can even lead directly to kill moves. Landing a nair sets up an edge guard. You don't need to land a finishing move. Just take your time.

Movement is super important with Link. One of the worst problems for Link is his inability to do things out of shield and lack of good moves against crouch cancel. Against someone who is aggressive that knows how to crouch cancel properly will be all over you and you can't just hit him away. You pretty much would have to YOLO grab them or wait until they mess up. You have to use movement to apply your mindgames or they will beat almost everything by being aggressive and crouch cancelling. Remember that movement isn't about being fast, it is about changing spacing and being ambiguous.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Being fast is helpful though. If you're moving faster than your opponent gives your character credit for, that alone is ambiguous (at least until they adapt to it).

 

[SAUS]

Ya I didn't mean to say moving fast is not useful, just that you don't need to be moving fast for movement to matter.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yup. It's all relative to what the objective is in the context.