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Link could’ve been completely different in Ultimate.

Ez Quinn

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Yeah that’s right I said it. Now before I start my rant, know that I’m not a Link main or even a pocket, and I’m not really here to argue over why my changes should/shouldn’t be made. I’m simply here to state my reasons and see what you all think.

Let’s begin: Link was overhauled for ultimate in the fact that he is BOTW Link. No more Twilight Princess Link. We have the Champion........ except he has almost the same moveset. And I’m upset. They could’ve done so much more so we didn’t have three links who basically play the same. (Yes I know they are all a little different in specials and their standards are where they differ the most.) But it feels like the three links are just the same thing with varying speed and power. Now I know we can argue all day on why their not the same character, but that’s not what this thread is for. Below are my changes for Link, plz tell me what you think of them and whether or not this is the link that should’ve been in ultimate.

Specials:
Neutral: No changes, the fact that he can knock and shoot multiple arrows is pretty cool
Down: Changed to Daruks Protection. (It’s a counter) holding down b will envelop link in Daruks protection and he can hold it (can’t move) pro: he can hold it forever and will counter attack any physical move. Cons, he can’t move until he releases and dropping has enough lag for a decent punish. Also can be broken with a projectile from far away and the lag allows for a punish.
Side: Rune bomb replaces the boomerang. No changes made to the rune bomb.
Up: Revalis Gale. ‘Nuff said if you played BOTW, the gale consumes link and lifts him upward, he can pull out his glider and glide back to stage (peach umbrella style)

I’m not gonna touch his standards or anything of the like. As I said earlier, I don’t play enough link to know the differences between all three to start changing stuff on original link.


Final smash: Links current final smash escapes me and I can’t remember what it is but I have two replacements.
1: Link needs to get close enough to hit the opponent to lock them in. The screen switches to hyrule castle with calamity ganon still rampaging. The locked character(s) are inside the castle when the four champions lock onto the castle and have the divine beasts fire away. This has the same effect of being in Mega Man’s or K. Rool’s Final Smash

2: This final Smash works like Peach/daisy. Link unleashes Urbosa’s Fury, paralyzing all the combatants and then Mipha’s grace is Activated and heals up to 30 percent on link.


*note that I wanted to include the champions in his other specials but I couldn’t find anything for mipha. Urbosa could be some kind of lightning attack on links side special.
Also I kinda had the idea of the champions having to recharge if used three times in a row/too often without using a different champion, I’m not sure how the recharging system could work, but link kinda becomes like Robin.

Tell me what you think, I’m looking for honest opinions of anyone who plays link in ultimate/BOTW. Would you play my version of link, or what critiques do you have
 
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OnyanRings

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I'm not sure about another down b counter on a swordsman for Link :T

However, i'm 100 % behind the up b !
 

Arthur97

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This might be fine...if he was a specialty Link, but since he's just "Link" he doesn't need to be excessively different.
 

Ez Quinn

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This might be fine...if he was a specialty Link, but since he's just "Link" he doesn't need to be excessively different.
Yeah he is just “link” but with both Toon and Young link in the game, one of them needs to be different, like really different to stand out. That’s why I went with the original link, as he already has the most changes.
 

Arthur97

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Yeah he is just “link” but with both Toon and Young link in the game, one of them needs to be different, like really different to stand out. That’s why I went with the original link, as he already has the most changes.
But as the others are specialties and have plenty of potential, they really should be the ones more customized.
 

Ez Quinn

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But as the others are specialties and have plenty of potential, they really should be the ones more customized.
True, they could’ve done a lot to make them stand out from the get go/ they didn’t do a great job with any of the Zelda cast if you ask me (I’m looking at you Ganondorf)
 
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I remember hoping that Link would have arrows a little more like Pit's, but with 8 angles. It would have been nice to have the Link most known for archery really be able to snipe people effectively. He'd have to be tweaked to balance his kit around that, but it would be fun.

Down-B as a counter pushes Link closer to the Fire Emblem cast, so I don't think I'd want to go that direction, but Daruk's protection as his shield bubble would've been cool. I agree with your idea of replacing boomerang, though. You have to be a wizard to use them well in BotW. I would probably replace it with the ice pillar. It would work well as a representative of rods, which have been in several Zelda games.

I do think that if Young Link wasn't in the game, the other two would have seemed unique enough. Toon Link doesn't share that much with adult Link anymore, now that they've both been tweaked slightly. Toon Link's clone status has been effectively cut in half and the moves that are still the same behave very differently. Young Link makes that line fuzzy because he's still a clone of the old adult Link but also the spiritual predecessor to Toon Link. People would have gotten mad if they took that away. So now we have a sliding scale of Links.
 

Ez Quinn

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I remember hoping that Link would have arrows a little more like Pit's, but with 8 angles. It would have been nice to have the Link most known for archery really be able to snipe people effectively. He'd have to be tweaked to balance his kit around that, but it would be fun.

Down-B as a counter pushes Link closer to the Fire Emblem cast, so I don't think I'd want to go that direction, but Daruk's protection as his shield bubble would've been cool. I agree with your idea of replacing boomerang, though. You have to be a wizard to use them well in BotW. I would probably replace it with the ice pillar. It would work well as a representative of rods, which have been in several Zelda games.

I do think that if Young Link wasn't in the game, the other two would have seemed unique enough. Toon Link doesn't share that much with adult Link anymore, now that they've both been tweaked slightly. Toon Link's clone status has been effectively cut in half and the moves that are still the same behave very differently. Young Link makes that line fuzzy because he's still a clone of the old adult Link but also the spiritual predecessor to Toon Link. People would have gotten mad if they took that away. So now we have a sliding scale of Links.
Yeah this is all true, young link feels the most out of place, also I would love ice rune as side special
 

Ez Quinn

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Well I don’t mind link standards, I’m just more focused on changing more of the specials between the three
 

osby

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I'm not sure changing two specials counts as being completely different. As it is, Ultimate actually had more changes than what you listed.
 

Ez Quinn

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Well, is it a lot different than what we have, not a lot, but that’s because I do t know a lot about his standards.
I like the idea of using the champions as his specials or using his runes as his specials. His final smash needs to be changed, and I liked the arrow suggestion someone made earlier
 
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Yeah that’s right I said it. Now before I start my rant, know that I’m not a Link main or even a pocket, and I’m not really here to argue over why my changes should/shouldn’t be made. I’m simply here to state my reasons and see what you all think.

Let’s begin: Link was overhauled for ultimate in the fact that he is BOTW Link. No more Twilight Princess Link. We have the Champion........ except he has almost the same moveset. And I’m upset. They could’ve done so much more so we didn’t have three links who basically play the same. (Yes I know they are all a little different in specials and their standards are where they differ the most.) But it feels like the three links are just the same thing with varying speed and power. Now I know we can argue all day on why their not the same character, but that’s not what this thread is for. Below are my changes for Link, plz tell me what you think of them and whether or not this is the link that should’ve been in ultimate.

Specials:
Neutral: No changes, the fact that he can knock and shoot multiple arrows is pretty cool
Down: Changed to Daruks Protection. (It’s a counter) holding down b will envelop link in Daruks protection and he can hold it (can’t move) pro: he can hold it forever and will counter attack any physical move. Cons, he can’t move until he releases and dropping has enough lag for a decent punish. Also can be broken with a projectile from far away and the lag allows for a punish.
Side: Rune bomb replaces the boomerang. No changes made to the rune bomb.
Up: Revalis Gale. ‘Nuff said if you played BOTW, the gale consumes link and lifts him upward, he can pull out his glider and glide back to stage (peach umbrella style)

I’m not gonna touch his standards or anything of the like. As I said earlier, I don’t play enough link to know the differences between all three to start changing stuff on original link.


Final smash: Links current final smash escapes me and I can’t remember what it is but I have two replacements.
1: Link needs to get close enough to hit the opponent to lock them in. The screen switches to hyrule castle with calamity ganon still rampaging. The locked character(s) are inside the castle when the four champions lock onto the castle and have the divine beasts fire away. This has the same effect of being in Mega Man’s or K. Rool’s Final Smash

2: This final Smash works like Peach/daisy. Link unleashes Urbosa’s Fury, paralyzing all the combatants and then Mipha’s grace is Activated and heals up to 30 percent on link.


*note that I wanted to include the champions in his other specials but I couldn’t find anything for mipha. Urbosa could be some kind of lightning attack on links side special.
Also I kinda had the idea of the champions having to recharge if used three times in a row/too often without using a different champion, I’m not sure how the recharging system could work, but link kinda becomes like Robin.

Tell me what you think, I’m looking for honest opinions of anyone who plays link in ultimate/BOTW. Would you play my version of link, or what critiques do you have
It's just fun to imagine a drastically different moveset for Link, i like your ideas but in practice i'm fairly sure it won't happen. Thing is, Link is one of the OG characters, a lot of people have played him since his very beginning in Smash 64. Some people like him as he is (or as he was before Ultimate), there was a bit of outrage concerning the changes he received in Ultimate (particularly about the lack of tether and the new bomb) so i imagine some people would be really pissed if they'd completely revamp him. That being said, personally i wouldn't be against more changes (i like the remote bomb and normal grab very much) but Nintendo, Sakurai and his team are probably aware that a lot of people would be (and i can see why, it's like saying to Link players: you know the character you have been playing during all those years, well we replaced him with a new character who is also named Link).

But yeah, as i said, new moves are just fun to imagine. Speaking of which, I had an idea for a special a while ago (or even a Final Smash), the Stasis Rune: as a special it could have worked similarly to Bayo's Witch Time or Mewtwo's Disable (and as a Final Smash it could have worked like a more BotW version of the Triforce Slash).
 
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Ez Quinn

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It's just fun to imagine a drastically different moveset for Link, i like your ideas but in practice i'm fairly sure it won't happen. Thing is, Link is one of the OG characters, a lot of people have played him since his very beginning in Smash 64. Some people like him as he is (or as he was before Ultimate), there was a bit of outrage concerning the changes he received in Ultimate (particularly about the lack of tether and the new bomb) so i imagine some people would be really pissed if they'd completely revamp him. That being said, personally i wouldn't be against more changes (i like the remote bomb and normal grab very much) but Nintendo, Sakurai and his team are probably aware that a lot of people would be (and i can see why, it's like saying to Link players: you know the character you have been playing during all those years, well we replaced him with a new character who is also named Link).

But yeah, as i said, new moves are just fun to imagine. Speaking of which, I had an idea for a special a while ago (or even a Final Smash), the Stasis Rune: as a special it could have worked similarly to Bayo's Witch Time or Mewtwo's Disable (and as a Final Smash it could have worked like a more BotW version of the Triforce Slash).

I love the idea of the stasis rune!
 

Ez Quinn

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It's just fun to imagine a drastically different moveset for Link, i like your ideas but in practice i'm fairly sure it won't happen. Thing is, Link is one of the OG characters, a lot of people have played him since his very beginning in Smash 64. Some people like him as he is (or as he was before Ultimate), there was a bit of outrage concerning the changes he received in Ultimate (particularly about the lack of tether and the new bomb) so i imagine some people would be really pissed if they'd completely revamp him. That being said, personally i wouldn't be against more changes (i like the remote bomb and normal grab very much) but Nintendo, Sakurai and his team are probably aware that a lot of people would be (and i can see why, it's like saying to Link players: you know the character you have been playing during all those years, well we replaced him with a new character who is also named Link).

But yeah, as i said, new moves are just fun to imagine. Speaking of which, I had an idea for a special a while ago (or even a Final Smash), the Stasis Rune: as a special it could have worked similarly to Bayo's Witch Time or Mewtwo's Disable (and as a Final Smash it could have worked like a more BotW version of the Triforce Slash).
I also like what you said that since he is the OG link he shouldn’t change that much to how he played in previous games. But theoretically if young link wasn’t a char, we could have link, toon link, and Champion link. (BotW link with all of the changes people made above.) I think that would’ve been cool. But honestly in the end one needs to be completely different from the others. Toon feels completely different, young link just feels like link, so yink/link needs to be different
 

KarenInHR

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As a current Link main I gotta say the best idea was having Revali's Gale as Up B. The bomb as Down B is perfect as is though in my opinion. The bomb honestly changed so much for Link and makes him the most unique of the three. The other two can't set traps or smack their bombs around to hinder the opponent. Having Stasis as a final smash would have been cool, but since I never have them turned on I wouldn't have really ever used it so I'm fine with the Ancient Arrow FS. I must say though, the other coolest bomb belongs to Toon Link because if you are fast enough to enter the cloud left behind by the explosion you can use it as a smokescreen which can be useful for catching your opponent off guard. All in all I'm glad that Link didn't get changed too drastically from the other iterations.
 

Sean²

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I disagree a bit. If you change the original too much with the excuse that Young Link and Toon Link exist as they are, you almost delve into MVCI territory of reducing characters to 'just functions'. People do play Link for reasons other than his attacks. The idea of using the champion abilities are really cool, and some even super easy to see as a move in Smash (Revali's Gale), but there are a number of reasons to understand why they wouldn't have done this for Ultimate...

  • The bomb change may be the start of an 'ease them into it' kind of larger change, so maybe we'll see him with more differences in Smash 6, or even later.
  • Ultimate development began a little over a year before BOTW's release. Maybe these moves would have been on the table if development began after BOTW's release. I remember the BOTW demos they had at E3 and only a few of the rune abilities available. I seem to remember the magnet ability and the remote bombs being showcased. Maybe the champion abilities weren't fully developed yet? I'm sure Link was one of the first veterans developed. It'd probably be easier to send over a character model reference to give him the new outfits and go from there.
  • Beyond the whole Zelda/Sheik thing (though that showed up in Smash 3-ish years after OOT was released, plenty of time for people to play that game), and maybe the Bowser Jr./Mario Sunshine Final Smash thing, Nintendo hasn't been super keen on including spoilers for other, newer, Nintendo games in Smash. The champion abilities show up in key points in the game's story, so there's a possibility as well.
  • Then there's what I've always figured the real reason was...Nintendo likes to play it safe. They don't want to go changing a series veteran too much, because that could alienate fans of how that character played before, and Nintendo really wants their money. Why else would Ganondorf, despite multiple aesthetic changes over the course of 4 games, still hold echoes of being an outright Falcon clone? Surely there are better options for Dark Dive, Warlock Punch, and Wizard's Foot. Why else would we have "Everyone is Here"?
I think the safer option would have been to change up Young Link a bit more, considering he hasn't been around in any capacity since Melee. Or even Zelda (still think it was a bit of a sin not to use her BOTW version, at least as an alt costume, but I digress). When she was introduced, Din's Fire, Nayru's Love, and Farore's Wind weren't even things she ever used in OOT. I'm sure some of the champion abilities could fill these gaps and work similarly to how her current specials work, if they're still fine with giving characters things they never used in their games. Daruk's could take the place of Nayru's, Revali's for Farore's, and ....maybe Urbosa's for Din's? They did heavily modify the way Din's fire worked for Smash, wouldn't put it past them to do the same for Urbosa's. Link at least still uses all of his specials in BOTW in some form.

I've gone a bit beyond Link here, but the point stands.
 

Aquamentii

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It would be cool if one of his normals (dash attack, f-tilt) was a shield bash with front-facing invulnerability (see Palutena's dash attack / bair) instead of 'swing sword in that direction'
 

Ez Quinn

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I disagree a bit. If you change the original too much with the excuse that Young Link and Toon Link exist as they are, you almost delve into MVCI territory of reducing characters to 'just functions'. People do play Link for reasons other than his attacks. The idea of using the champion abilities are really cool, and some even super easy to see as a move in Smash (Revali's Gale), but there are a number of reasons to understand why they wouldn't have done this for Ultimate...

  • The bomb change may be the start of an 'ease them into it' kind of larger change, so maybe we'll see him with more differences in Smash 6, or even later.
  • Ultimate development began a little over a year before BOTW's release. Maybe these moves would have been on the table if development began after BOTW's release. I remember the BOTW demos they had at E3 and only a few of the rune abilities available. I seem to remember the magnet ability and the remote bombs being showcased. Maybe the champion abilities weren't fully developed yet? I'm sure Link was one of the first veterans developed. It'd probably be easier to send over a character model reference to give him the new outfits and go from there.
  • Beyond the whole Zelda/Sheik thing (though that showed up in Smash 3-ish years after OOT was released, plenty of time for people to play that game), and maybe the Bowser Jr./Mario Sunshine Final Smash thing, Nintendo hasn't been super keen on including spoilers for other, newer, Nintendo games in Smash. The champion abilities show up in key points in the game's story, so there's a possibility as well.
  • Then there's what I've always figured the real reason was...Nintendo likes to play it safe. They don't want to go changing a series veteran too much, because that could alienate fans of how that character played before, and Nintendo really wants their money. Why else would Ganondorf, despite multiple aesthetic changes over the course of 4 games, still hold echoes of being an outright Falcon clone? Surely there are better options for Dark Dive, Warlock Punch, and Wizard's Foot. Why else would we have "Everyone is Here"?
I think the safer option would have been to change up Young Link a bit more, considering he hasn't been around in any capacity since Melee. Or even Zelda (still think it was a bit of a sin not to use her BOTW version, at least as an alt costume, but I digress). When she was introduced, Din's Fire, Nayru's Love, and Farore's Wind weren't even things she ever used in OOT. I'm sure some of the champion abilities could fill these gaps and work similarly to how her current specials work, if they're still fine with giving characters things they never used in their games. Daruk's could take the place of Nayru's, Revali's for Farore's, and ....maybe Urbosa's for Din's? They did heavily modify the way Din's fire worked for Smash, wouldn't put it past them to do the same for Urbosa's. Link at least still uses all of his specials in BOTW in some form.

I've gone a bit beyond Link here, but the point stands.

Honestly I’m glad you went a little past link, this is the kinda point from the other side I’ve been looking for. You’ve brought up a lot of key points and it’s definitely a lot for me to look over, and think about.
 

smashingDoug

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Link has a counter. It's his shield. Just stand still or walk.

And nah I hate recoveries what just shoot the character into the air. Sonic, Mega man and DeDeDe for examples.

Tbh revamping the other Links would be easier.

Twilight princess link

B crossbow, or bomb arrows,

Down b ball and chain or bomblings,

Side b spinner, or dominion rod, (think mewtwo) or even gale boomerang it is still unique

Up B keep spin attack. Or oocco and oocco jr

Grab double clawshot. Two tries but recovery timer is longer after second shot

Standard attacks. Work in the hidden skills. And maybe the sumo moves.

Final smash wolf link.

Toon Link would be even easier with three games to work from. But I'll pass.
 
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