Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

[KenMeister]

@ Izaw please post your tournament results.

What tournament results?

 

[ShinnyMetal]

I love the reverse fake-out, but only me, Cat, FSK and Foxy actually seem to ever do it, and it's mostly me. Here are two posts on it from me:



Scizor loves the up-bombslide and uses it a lot for mobility, there's for example a an upward bombslide to Dsmash here. Up-throw fake-out lead to greater follow-ups and sliding under people &c., see this video by Ieven and this game of @ Nimious and this game of me.

Here's a video I made advertising bombslides:

In brief, Link's DACIT/Bombslide rules. FSK will make a video f bombslides, and I will be compiling something more definitive too, because it seems there are still questioners for some reason...!

I love upthrow bomb slide.....though it's the only one I can do :\ I don't know why I can't get the others to work but I've spent a dumb amount of time trying

 

[HarryTheChin]

I love upthrow bomb slide.....though it's the only one I can do :\ I don't know why I can't get the others to work but I've spent a dumb amount of time trying

@Dumbfire I'm having the same issues as ShinyMetal here, any tips on how to perform forward/side throw DACIT on GC controller? I know that pivoting is required but.. idk

 

[DUKEL]

It's all about practicing the timing. You'll perfect it before long. Just practice the inputs and learn the timing. Once you have the timing down it comes naturally and you'll throw the bomb exactly where you want to.

 

[ShinnyMetal]

It's all about practicing the timing. You'll perfect it before long. Just practice the inputs and learn the timing. Once you have the timing down it comes naturally and you'll throw the bomb exactly where you want to.

It's definitely my fault for not learning the attack way. I only did the smash- stick way because it was easier (also I was only able to practice during matches with my friends at the time)

 

[HarryTheChin]

alright thanks for the input @ DUKEL

 

[Zane the pure]

At the end of the day tourney results are not the end all be all of talent on their own.
A careful mix of placings, demonstration, knowledge, and situational awareness are what define a good player. No one can discount Nairo's talent for smash. He came out of nowhere at the end of Brawl's life span (using MK yeah...) and traded huge sets over top players from the time, and still maintains a strong presence in the scene. Know where Nairo started? Wifi of all damn things...

He had the mindset of a competitive player before he even entered a tournament due to careful study, training and great reflexes coupled with the know how on how to exploit THE best character in the game, and it took him to the top of regionals practically overnight.

So @ Izaw , I'd agree with you that Link isn't bad. I don't rate him as highly as you would (mostly I think most people simply don't know the matchup as well as they do Sheik) I know you're a really good player, and you have good insights (even in isolation). I think if there were a way to bury the hatchet between the boards and you, it'd be for the best for both sides. Hang out with us a bit more and show how much better Link is than we think, or give it some time to play out, and we'll see who's right. Either way, Link boards + Izaw would be better. IMO

 

[Rizen]

At the end of the day tourney results are not the end all be all of talent on their own.
A careful mix of placings, demonstration, knowledge, and situational awareness are what define a good player. No one can discount Nairo's talent for smash. He came out of nowhere at the end of Brawl's life span (using MK yeah...) and traded huge sets over top players from the time, and still maintains a strong presence in the scene. Know where Nairo started? Wifi of all damn things...

He had the mindset of a competitive player before he even entered a tournament due to careful study, training and great reflexes coupled with the know how on how to exploit THE best character in the game, and it took him to the top of regionals practically overnight.

So @ Izaw , I'd agree with you that Link isn't bad. I don't rate him as highly as you would (mostly I think most people simply don't know the matchup as well as they do Sheik) I know you're a really good player, and you have good insights (even in isolation). I think if there were a way to bury the hatchet between the boards and you, it'd be for the best for both sides. Hang out with us a bit more and show how much better Link is than we think, or give it some time to play out, and we'll see who's right. Either way, Link boards + Izaw would be better. IMO

Yes Nario like many top players played wifi. Then he went to tournaments. Any mangy beast can produce a few choice cuts of meat. There's a huge difference in highlight videos of a player and results. It's like saying "I jogged a mile and therefor I won a 20 mile marathon".
I don't know why people defend that glass diamond. Did you not see all this?
http://smashboards.com/threads/link...s-a-nice-thread.370194/page-260#post-19541947
That deluded narcissist thinks he's above the law. He spams the forums while contributing nothing to Link's meta advancement. He has no tourney results but calls Link players who do scrubs because they're experienced enough to not buy into his delusions.
Clowns should be laughed at not worshiped.

 

[DUKEL]

At the end of the day tourney results are not the end all be all of talent on their own.
A careful mix of placings, demonstration, knowledge, and situational awareness are what define a good player. No one can discount Nairo's talent for smash. He came out of nowhere at the end of Brawl's life span (using MK yeah...) and traded huge sets over top players from the time, and still maintains a strong presence in the scene. Know where Nairo started? Wifi of all damn things...

He had the mindset of a competitive player before he even entered a tournament due to careful study, training and great reflexes coupled with the know how on how to exploit THE best character in the game, and it took him to the top of regionals practically overnight.

So @ Izaw , I'd agree with you that Link isn't bad. I don't rate him as highly as you would (mostly I think most people simply don't know the matchup as well as they do Sheik) I know you're a really good player, and you have good insights (even in isolation). I think if there were a way to bury the hatchet between the boards and you, it'd be for the best for both sides. Hang out with us a bit more and show how much better Link is than we think, or give it some time to play out, and we'll see who's right. Either way, Link boards + Izaw would be better. IMO

Look if Izaw comes on here and tells/shows us how this supposed high tier Link is played, then I would really respect that and the boards (and Link) would really benefit from it.

However, right now he's only saying that we're playing Link wrong, and not offering insight on how to improve. If he's wondering why the boards don't like him, that's exactly why. Is Link high tier? Link's current smash boards meta says otherwise. Mid tier? Easily. High mid? Dthrow setups make this look possible, if not a for sure possibility. But high tier? Our current metagame can't allow it. Link is simply too punishable and has far too much lag. So if he thinks that Link is high tier, why doesn't he show how Link's meta should be played to make him high tier? If he legitimately shows us how Link can be the next Diddy, and it works, then he'll regain some of the respect he had on these boards. He might even regain all of it.

But if he doesn't, and/or high tier results aren't shown, then he'll continue to look like a cocky player who rarely plays Link in bracket, but loves to spew misinformation about the capability of Link.

As of right now Izaw's the one that has to prove his claims. The burden of truth is on him. Is Link high tier? Why? He needs to either show us that Link is as viable as he says he is, or stop coming to the boards looking for us to stroke his ego.

 

[Lawz.]

Stop talking bad about me. I don't appreciate this, my zomb...I mean...fans tell me I'm the best from my videos. So I am the best.



No questions asked.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I honestly would really like to have Izaw at least contribute to the Link boards every now and then or even make brief visits like Sook does. I used to be a huge fan of his back then (I still love to watch him play to this day) and he's a big reason as to why I play Smash competitively, and with Link no less. It would be a privilege to interact with him on the boards imo.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Stop talking bad about me. I don't appreciate this, my zomb...I mean...fans tell me I'm the best from my videos. So I am the best.



No questions asked.

Izaw, I just want you to know that you are the greatest Link main to ever walk the face of this earth and I will be honored if you take me under your wing to show me all of the incredible AT's and tactics that only your ingenious brain could come up with. If there's anyone that can prove that Link is Top 10, it's definitely you.

You are not a Link main, you are a Link god.

To everyone else just shut up. Izaw is the prophet of our time.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Izaw, I just want you to know that you are the greatest Link main to ever walk the face of this earth and I will be honored if you take me under your wing to show me all of the incredible AT's and tactics that only your ingenious brain could come up with. If there's anyone that can prove that Link is Top 10, it's definitely you.

You are not a Link main, you are a Link god.

To everyone else just shut up. Izaw is the prophet of our time.

I don't see how making fun of him would...nevermind. Carry on.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I don't see how making fun of him would...nevermind. Carry on.

Neither do I! I'm tired of people saying he's not a great Link main.

 

[Lawz.]

I honestly would really like to have Izaw at least contribute to the Link boards every now and then or even make brief visits like Sook does. I used to be a huge fan of his back then (I still love to watch him play to this day) and he's a big reason as to why I play Smash competitively, and with Link no less. It would be a privilege to interact with him on the boards imo.

I will lead you down the right path.

Play flashy always. Being safe isn't important as long as you get that ONE sick combo.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Oh, yes. Spot on, bro. Izaw is our lord and savior. Every person on the Link boards should shut up and kiss his ass for once. After all, he wins every tournament he goes to right? Clearly he is the best. And did I mention that he is the #1 contrubuter to the Link meta?

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Every. Single. One.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Alright for real though? I'm sick and tired of having to read about Izaw. Stop posting about him for pages and pages on end every lunar cycle. If you've got a problem with someone, go and tell them to their face; why not PM the guy? Making a post here about someone who is absent is cowardly, and besides that it could (and will be from now on so help me Din) be seen as a troll post, and troll posts start flame wars, and flame wars are unproductive, spammy, unpleasant, and above all they mean I actually have to do my job, which is time consuming, needlessly so.
If you absolutely must spend your time verbally bashing someone behind their back, at least do it in PM's where I don't have to deal with that ****, because I don't care. I do not care.

 

[Zane the pure]

This one's kinda long, so I'll do the uninvolved a favor and spoiler this.
@ Rizen

Spoiler

Yes Nario like many top players played wifi. Then he went to tournaments. Any mangy beast can produce a few choice cuts of meat. There's a huge difference in highlight videos of a player and results. It's like saying "I jogged a mile and therefor I won a 20 mile marathon".

I'm not certain how you missed my own implication of Nairo going to tournaments if you did, because the way it looks, you did...
Meanwhile, Izaw has been to tournaments, gotten decent placings, and repped Link adequately in his region. Wanna know why you don't hear about it? Because everytime he puts his foot back in the door we're there ready to slam it shut. He posted his Sheik guide here, that was dumb. I'm not gonna hold it against him for all time, I don't hold Shin to his occasional double posts, nor do I sasook's single word responses, nor your own ramblings of someone's cat or neighbors being loud that have little to do with the discussion of Link and or things pertaining to Link. I post uninvolved nonsense all the time, not in it's own thread, but my point being I can afford him a mistake every once in a blue moon.

I don't know why people defend that glass diamond. Did you not see all this?
http://smashboards.com/threads/link...s-a-nice-thread.370194/page-260#post-19541947
That deluded narcissist thinks he's above the law. He spams the forums while contributing nothing to Link's meta advancement. He has no tourney results but calls Link players who do scrubs because they're experienced enough to not buy into his delusions.
Clowns should be laughed at not worshiped.

If he's got some kooky opinion about Link being god-tier or high-tier in this case, give him some time to provide his proof. All we've seen was a sniped comment from a youtube video, and a post or two of him bickering with someone who jumped him for saying it.
If his ego has been a problem in the past, and flaming him for it does nothing to change it, why continue to do so? Cliché definition of insanity aside, He gets picked on for being here half the time, so he never talks to us. He's isolated, so he get's information askew in a video. He gets accused of fellating his own ego when he posts highlight videos. Do you know why he posted that? Maybe he's a nice guy on the other side of the screen who put enough time & effort into editing a couple replays to share, and the general response is to call him out for something unrelated?

Why would he come here if all he gets is abuse?

I'm not trying to carebear defend Izaw, because I know he's got his own part in the blame, and it's gonna look like I am. I'm trying to patch things over, because Izaw as a smasher has a fairly strong hold of the smash public's eyes and ears. If we were able to retain amicable relations: He'd have all the information we dig up so he doesn't misrepresent certain techniques, He'd be able to pass along the carefully researched data and info to people who follow him so they're not misinformed, and maybe people might start getting the picture when it comes to Link. Current disagreement on Link's viability non withstanding, if we can work things out, we can mutually benefit from each other's contributions as long as we don't piss in each other's corn flakes...

Again, I'm not Izaw's pillow, nor am I an Izawmbie. I want Izaw to stick around because he was a pretty cool person who could play well and got people's attention, and he still can be, but aimless scorn will prevent that. You have a point about his poor behavior, but even his nobler attempts have been met with Din's fire.
So please lighten up a bit? Atleast enough until he can provide his proof of Link's viability that may or may not be true.

@ DUKEL

Spoiler

Look if Izaw comes on here and tells/shows us how this supposed high tier Link is played, then I would really respect that and the boards (and Link) would really benefit from it.

However, right now he's only saying that we're playing Link wrong, and not offering insight on how to improve. If he's wondering why the boards don't like him, that's exactly why. Is Link high tier? Link's current smash boards meta says otherwise. Mid tier? Easily. High mid? Dthrow setups make this look possible, if not a for sure possibility. But high tier? Our current metagame can't allow it. Link is simply too punishable and has far too much lag. So if he thinks that Link is high tier, why doesn't he show how Link's meta should be played to make him high tier? If he legitimately shows us how Link can be the next Diddy, and it works, then he'll regain some of the respect he had on these boards. He might even regain all of it.

But if he doesn't, and/or high tier results aren't shown, then he'll continue to look like a cocky player who rarely plays Link in bracket, but loves to spew misinformation about the capability of Link.

As of right now Izaw's the one that has to prove his claims. The burden of truth is on him. Is Link high tier? Why? He needs to either show us that Link is as viable as he says he is, or stop coming to the boards looking for us to stroke his ego.

You and I have no quarrel brother, for our view is the same. I want his proof too, I simply maintain that we give him time to provide it before we jump him. Sure It'd be great if someone wanting to make a statement would actually post their proof alongside side said assertion, but *sigh* "to err is human". (And considering the online age, any proof he provides preliminarily will get discounted and ripped to shreds cuz anyone at their computer screen can type "ur a lyer")

And I typed this one up before I'd seen your input Foxy, so lemme know if you want me to move this.

 

[MintyGuy700]

"If you've got a problem with someone, go and tell them to their face; why not PM the guy?"

He has been confronted, for your infomation. Check this thread for that. http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-sheik-guide-art-of-sheik-by-izaw.383240/

 

[DarkDeity15]

I originally meant no harm, especially with my first post towards Izaw. Though yes, someone should PM him about coming over to the Link boards sometime. I agree with Zane on the matter. My bad for getting caught up in this mess.

Edit: To change the subject, by how much do you think rage affects jab 2 cancels > stuff?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

"If you've got a problem with someone, go and tell them to their face; why not PM the guy?"

He has been confronted, for your infomation. Check this thread for that. http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-sheik-guide-art-of-sheik-by-izaw.383240/

You do realise that you're talking to someone who has read every post, has a great memory, and is currently not in the mood for such trivial arguments, right? The sentence of mine that you so brilliantly quoted was speaking to the innumerable posts above us in which people where expressing a problem with Izaw not to his face but right here, for your information. Bringing up an example of a head on confrontation that occurred in the past does not change this present fact. If you want me to explain further for some reason, PM me.

 

[MintyGuy700]

You do realise that you're talking to someone who has read every post, has a great memory, and is currently not in the mood for such trivial arguments, right? The sentence of mine that you so brilliantly quoted was speaking to the innumerable posts above us in which people where expressing a problem with Izaw not to his face but right here, for your information. Bringing up an example of a head on confrontation that occurred in the past does not change this present fact. If you want me to explain further for some reason, PM me.

Oh crap. I just now realized how long you've been on. I apologize for my ignorance.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

Fox was about to go openly ballistic on you, man.

 

[Zane the pure]

By how much do you think rage affects jab 2 cancels > stuff?

Don't mind the franken-clip it looks more appealing that way .
And jab2 cancels are ever so slightly affected by rage. They expectedly float the opponent a little further, which has benefits (like jab2 Up-b can actually work against fast fallers like fox) and problems (it's easier for floaties to jump out of) associated with what degree of rage% you are at.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Don't mind the franken-clip it looks more appealing that way .
And jab2 cancels are ever so slightly affected by rage. They expectedly float the opponent a little further, which has benefits (like jab2 Up-b can actually work against fast fallers like fox) and problems (it's easier for floaties to jump out of) associated with what degree of rage% you are at.

I'm thinking that maybe rage gives jab 2 a little more hitstun, making jab 2 cancel > stuff a bit more guaranteed. I'm probably wrong though.

 

[Koby_T]

I'm thinking that maybe rage gives jab 2 a little more hitstun, making jab 2 cancel > stuff a bit more guaranteed. I'm probably wrong though.

Well, if hitstun multiplier still work the same way based on knockback, that would make sense. I imagine the difference would only be a frame or so though...that said, I guess even a frame would make hit confirms from jab 2 easier.

Edit: I should read more of the conversation before posting...

 

[Zane the pure]

I'm thinking that maybe rage gives jab 2 a little more hitstun, making jab 2 cancel > stuff a bit more guaranteed. I'm probably wrong though.

See, Jab2 cancel is less of a hitstun trick and more of a hitfloat positioning one. It wouldn't be that jab2 gains more hitstun with rage active, it simply affects the knockback.

For example, if you try to Jab2 to Up-B against fox at 0% with no rage Fox will easily be able to shield the entirety of Up-B and land a nasty punish, so it's unwise to try it. With the correct situation of Link's rage% and maybe some variance on Fox's % the jab2 string will gain enough knockback to become an effective maneuver.
Jab2 to up-b is not a true combo in really any sense by merit of hitstun, but given that there is both an amount of lag frames when landing coupled with however many frames the opponent's fastest effective aerial has on startup before the attack is active, that is what allows the string as it were to work. Thus a character like wouldn't be able to attack after jab2 until after Up-B would have already hit him. Also a character with the appropriate weight when hit by Jab2 may land before they are able to attack/dodge/jump and Up-b hits before they can recoup from the standard landing lag and the frames before shield is active as the two do not overlap perfectly. In summation, it's effect on hitfloat can alter the way characters are setup for follow-ups.

I use Jab2 to Up-B as an example, this rage% jab2 concept differs based on follow up. Some extra testing would probably be nice.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Alright, so let me be clear about this; Zane and I have agreed to confront Izaw about this issue. Zane will be the one to confront him first. Anyone who wants in on the conversation can let him know. If Izaw is alright with others joining the conversation, then they will be included. After all, this is a big issue. That is all.

 

[Koby_T]

See, Jab2 cancel is less of a hitstun trick and more of a hitfloat positioning one. It wouldn't be that jab2 gains more hitstun with rage active, it simply affects the knockback.

For example, if you try to Jab2 to Up-B against fox at 0% with no rage Fox will easily be able to shield the entirety of Up-B and land a nasty punish, so it's unwise to try it. With the correct situation of Link's rage% and maybe some variance on Fox's % the jab2 string will gain enough knockback to become an effective maneuver.
Jab2 to up-b is not a true combo in really any sense by merit of hitstun, but given that there is both an amount of lag frames when landing coupled with however many frames the opponent's fastest effective aerial has on startup before the attack is active, that is what allows the string as it were to work. Thus a character like wouldn't be able to attack after jab2 until after Up-B would have already hit him. Also a character with the appropriate weight when hit by Jab2 may land before they are able to attack/dodge/jump and Up-b hits before they can recoup from the standard landing lag and the frames before shield is active as the two do not overlap perfectly. In summation, it's effect on hitfloat can alter the way characters are setup for follow-ups.

I use Jab2 to Up-B as an example, this rage% jab2 concept differs based on follow up. Some extra testing would probably be nice.

How soon can a character jump out of hitstun? It would seem the window for this to work would be tight since we're taking into account both our percent and our opponent's (DI as well?). It also would seem to vary greatly between opponents. Is this as niche as it seems to me?

 

[Zane the pure]

In the event that the opponent's reflexes are good, and they know about this little string, it will difficult to land on some characters.
Given that Link is a much more seldom used and even more seldom utilized character, the range of opponents who'll know ahead of time is a bit small, but most competent players should be able to figure it out after one or two uses.
Most of the time a properly timed double jump is all one needs to escape this string, but that's why we have options. If you can predict they'll use their double jump you have an opportunity to punish them for that instead, so be sure to mix it up.
It's niche to a point, but the notion of an opponent reacting to it opens a different opportunity to attack, so I'd keep it handy and learn to condition the opponent to maximize it's use.

 

[Koby_T]

In the event that the opponent's reflexes are good, and they know about this little string, it will difficult to land on some characters.
Given that Link is a much more seldom used and even more seldom utilized character, the range of opponents who'll know ahead of time is a bit small, but most competent players should be able to figure it out after one or two uses.
Most of the time a properly timed double jump is all one needs to escape this string, but that's why we have options. If you can predict they'll use their double jump you have an opportunity to punish them for that instead, so be sure to mix it up.
It's niche to a point, but the notion of an opponent reacting to it opens a different opportunity to attack, so I'd keep it handy and learn to condition the opponent to maximize it's use.

Into the lab we go! My roommate loves when I ask him to play smash just so I can give exact directions on what I want him to do.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Lately I've been asking myself if maybe Link's skill cap has been affected now that he has a great grab game and a combo throw. It makes it a lot less of a struggle for us to rack damage where most if not all of our damage output would come from putting heavy work into our zoning game.

 

[Nimious]

@Dumbfire I'm having the same issues as ShinyMetal here, any tips on how to perform forward/side throw DACIT on GC controller? I know that pivoting is required but.. idk

I love upthrow bomb slide.....though it's the only one I can do :\ I don't know why I can't get the others to work but I've spent a dumb amount of time trying

The only thing I can say to you two is that you need to practice and practice hard and often.

The inputs, everyone knows the inputs, that's really just the start.

The key is timing and muscle memory and there's really no way to get that without practice.

The only real tip I can give you is to vary the timing by a little bit every time you try until you actually get the Bombslide you want then try and replicate it. Keep in mind you have roughly a third of a second to complete all the inputs. Also don't even look at your character on screen for timing. The lag and difference of lag between setups will mess you up during tournaments if you learn it by watching your Link.

The first time I tried Forward Bombslide I was in front of my TV for an hour going over and over again the inputs. By the end of it I gave up because my hand was so ragged from pushing out the inputs. However I had gotten it right a couple of times and months later I get it right 4/5 times the Bombslide I want.

If you want to get good at Link you really have to learn Bombslides or at the very least the Forward variation.

Look if Izaw comes on here and tells/shows us how this supposed high tier Link is played, then I would really respect that and the boards (and Link) would really benefit from it.

However, right now he's only saying that we're playing Link wrong, and not offering insight on how to improve. If he's wondering why the boards don't like him, that's exactly why. Is Link high tier? Link's current smash boards meta says otherwise. Mid tier? Easily. High mid? Dthrow setups make this look possible, if not a for sure possibility. But high tier? Our current metagame can't allow it. Link is simply too punishable and has far too much lag. So if he thinks that Link is high tier, why doesn't he show how Link's meta should be played to make him high tier? If he legitimately shows us how Link can be the next Diddy, and it works, then he'll regain some of the respect he had on these boards. He might even regain all of it.

But if he doesn't, and/or high tier results aren't shown, then he'll continue to look like a cocky player who rarely plays Link in bracket, but loves to spew misinformation about the capability of Link.

As of right now Izaw's the one that has to prove his claims. The burden of truth is on him. Is Link high tier? Why? He needs to either show us that Link is as viable as he says he is, or stop coming to the boards looking for us to stroke his ego.

To be honest I've watched every video in their entirety of Izaw's Link. He's not on top of the current Link meta. His Link though solid is really plain and basic. He lacks all of the ATs and combos that have been discussed and developed.

He plays Link like it's still Brawl.

To hear Izaw say we're playing Link wrong.... All I can do is shake my head.

Still, if Izaw does prove everyone's wrong then he does deserve everyone's respect but I just don't see it. How can we be playing Link wrong?

 

[DarkDeity15]

Did anyone else see Nairo lurking here earlier?

 

[Nimious]

^this is a good example of why veteran Link mains don't like Izaw. Now a bunch of FG scrubs will flood eventhubs rating Link up.
http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/
^This has Link above Diddy for Goddess Farow' sake which is complete BS for competitive smash. Izaw likes to hype MMs with scrubs (I will admit the Sonic player was good but he's the first good player I've ever seen Izaw face) then post a big thread about it and get scrubs to idolize him. He did this with DDD in Brawl:
http://smashboards.com/threads/izaw-matches-new-matches-against-a-pro-dedede.173455/
That DDD Haze (the same "good CF" he posted a different MM about) was terrible and Brawl Link vs DDD was -3 for Link but scrubs with no tourney experience flooded the forums saying Link is good. He also made an entire thread rather than using the video thread. He posted "the art of Sheik by Izaw" as a thread 3 (or more) separate times on Smashboards including on the Link forums:
http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-sheik-guide-art-of-sheik-by-izaw.383240/
Izaw also makes Art of Link videos trying to take credit for ATs that the Link boards come up with through metagame discussion, which he doesn't help with. He has no tournaments to back him up. Other Links did work and attended live tourneys.
Izaw just has tech skill and a huge ego (a pet peeve of mine). He encourages spam on the forums and creates a false impression of Link being "The new Diddy" to scrubs. This is why Link is designed bad and nerfed in patches concerning competitive play.

Actually you might be interested to know that there was no money match.

I actually doubt Izaw had any money matches against Haze given what I asked him.

My conversation with Haze is now of course deleted in the video comments but thankfully Gmail still has the notifications of what Haze said.

I don't know why Izaw feels the need to lie and call these money matches but this bothered me.

 

[Rizen]

Edit

I actually doubt Izaw had any money matches against Haze given what I asked him.

My conversation with Haze is now of course deleted in the video comments but thankfully Gmail still has the notifications of what Haze said.

I don't know why Izaw feels the need to lie and call these money matches but this bothered me.

Izaw's a fraud to Link.

Alright for real though? I'm sick and tired of having to read about Izaw. Stop posting about him for pages and pages on end every lunar cycle. If you've got a problem with someone, go and tell them to their face; why not PM the guy? Making a post here about someone who is absent is cowardly, and besides that it could (and will be from now on so help me Din) be seen as a troll post, and troll posts start flame wars, and flame wars are unproductive, spammy, unpleasant, and above all they mean I actually have to do my job, which is time consuming, needlessly so.
If you absolutely must spend your time verbally bashing someone behind their back, at least do it in PM's where I don't have to deal with that ****, because I don't care. I do not care.

Did you not see the video thread Izaw was spamming? Unless you forum banned Izaw there's nothing stopping him from posting here, in the social, rather than the video thread. Nothing has happened behind anyone's back. That's what started all this, look:
http://smashboards.com/threads/video-critique-thread-27th-june.369394/page-15
I'm sick of seeing Izaw too but if he's going to insult the entire board with things like
"Bad players.
Too focused on that Link has a hard time in this game, noone really knows how to play him AS a hightier, I freaking win against people like Ixis (EU best Sonic) .. While I loose with Sheik, and my Sheik stands up to Mr.R's...

Link isn't bad, who the hell told you that? Some scrub who doesn't really know anything? The forums? Why are you listening to people who say he is bad ? He isn't "clearly" not very good."
-Izaw
we're going to dish out Link board justice. He insulted every tourney going player who doesn't buy that Link isn't high tier. We do work. See, this is why we're mad, or I am at least.
And I have tried to PM him in the past. He ignored me. I've tried to be friends with him and get to know him in the Brawl days. Izaw thinks he's too good for everyone and did things like make that stupid DDD haze thread rather than use the video thread, as I tried to explain. I was in the Link backroom and had to deal with issues he caused. We're not being jerks; everything happens for a reason.

@ Zane the pure
I wish you'd listen to what the boards are trying to say instead of blindly defending Izaw. Also please post or link to Izaw's tournament results with Link. I only have seen 1 tourney DF was kind enough to post where he seems to go Sheik most of the time, then act like he's the best Link for using him once. What about Links like Huggles who get 1st going all Link, do you believe Izaw knows better than them?
Like I told Foxy I did try to talk to Izaw and PM him in the past. He's caused a lot of trouble and never listens to anyone. In fact can you link to 1 Link-related post where Izaw accepts someone else's advice or says 'good work' to another Link player?
You try to see the good in people but have to also understand narcissistic people will use you. People will step on your face to climb to the top without hesitation. Don't let that happen.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Any other Link mains going to CEO?

Are you also native to Florida? I've seen people on Facebook mention your name before. I wish I could've gone to CEO.

Actually you might be interested to know that there was no money match.

I actually doubt Izaw had any money matches against Haze given what I asked him.

My conversation with Haze is now of course deleted in the video comments but thankfully Gmail still has the notifications of what Haze said.

I don't know why Izaw feels the need to lie and call these money matches but this bothered me.

That's interesting to say the least. Either way, we'll still PM him anyways as planned. Here's to hoping he isn't the person we think he is.

 

[Rizen]

Well you can lead a horse to water...
Think what you want but don't blame us for being mad at Izaw.

Edit @ Fox Is Openly Deceptive now I've sent PMs that ironically were behind Izaw's back. I can discuss it on the social if anyone wants so not to be accused of going behind people's backs. It's not my style. I think you don't want that though, right?

 

[Izaw]

At the end of the day tourney results are not the end all be all of talent on their own.
A careful mix of placings, demonstration, knowledge, and situational awareness are what define a good player. No one can discount Nairo's talent for smash. He came out of nowhere at the end of Brawl's life span (using MK yeah...) and traded huge sets over top players from the time, and still maintains a strong presence in the scene. Know where Nairo started? Wifi of all damn things...

He had the mindset of a competitive player before he even entered a tournament due to careful study, training and great reflexes coupled with the know how on how to exploit THE best character in the game, and it took him to the top of regionals practically overnight.

So @ Izaw , I'd agree with you that Link isn't bad. I don't rate him as highly as you would (mostly I think most people simply don't know the matchup as well as they do Sheik) I know you're a really good player, and you have good insights (even in isolation). I think if there were a way to bury the hatchet between the boards and you, it'd be for the best for both sides. Hang out with us a bit more and show how much better Link is than we think, or give it some time to play out, and we'll see who's right. Either way, Link boards + Izaw would be better. IMO

I agree but most people are already hating on me for no reason really, I never had a problem with anyone. And I do have tourney results, I just haven't played Link in the tourneys. And I live in EU so coming to America is expensive and difficult. I do update myself on the link boards, but whenever I express myself on the forums I get **** for it. So I'll stick to making Art of Link series.

Also I'm sorry if I couldn't accept your friend invitation or respond to your PM. I have a lot that I do. I'm a working actor, I edit films, I work out, I play instruments, I perform in theaters, I take care of my house, my gf, I draw and paint, I also I have 10 friend requests per day, and 10 pm per day. I can't do everything at the same time. Links position on how good he is in the game shouldn't be based on tourney results only. Which of now that's the only thing you guys are looking at. Like I said, where was Peach before Armada started playing her? It's not about the tourney results. It's about working together, developing the character, and believing in that Link is just as good as any character. I can't work with people that say Link is bad, if he isn't, where is the tourney results? There isn't any. And I WILL show up at a tournament at some point in the U.S. But right now I am struggling for money, working hard, and still contributing as much as I can for Link. Remember I DONT live in USA. Players from all over the world, Argentina, London, Netherlands etc come to ME instead, why the heck would they do that if they do that? When have I ever claimed I'm the best Link?? Never. When have I ever claimed anything as a player? Never. Other people claim things about me. And that's where the hate comes in from the other people who either disagree or get jealous. I'm fine with that, throw your hate at me I don't care.

By the end of the day you are hating on someone who contributed more to Link for the whole Link community than just th Link boards here. And I never claimed anything. I just did a tutorial. And I play players who come from around the world to challenge me.

And FYI the match against Haze wasn't a MM between us. It was a MM in the sense where a sponsor would pay the winner the money for just winning the set.

I believe link is high tier. He isn't officially on the list ofc, but that's simply because all the tourney are in the U.S. And so far no U.S player so far is playing Link in the correct and most effective way, probably because they see themselves as a underdog and lowtier, or because simply there are other players who are just better.

Wanna talk about HOW good I am? I don't have Link tourney results. Talk to ixis, mr.r, Istudy, j.Miller... Hell I even beat Ally in a CF ditto in a tournament match, talk to him..

I have also NEVER "spammed" the forum, infact I'm barely having time for forums