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Letter to the Community - From the PMDT

Zolom

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
75
Location
Murrieta, California
Hello folks!

The Project M Dev Team wanted to get the opportunity keep you guys up to date on what’s been going on and give a little insight into how we work as a team. Over the past couple months we have been hinting and releasing some content pertaining to the 3.5 release. As with any game release, people begin asking “when is the release date?” and “what changes are being made?” as soon as it is mentioned. Keep in mind we are all video game fanatics ourselves and we understand the frustration of feeling out of the loop. We felt it important to reach out to the community, assure you that we are listening, and tell you that we are just as excited to release the update as you are to play it!

We want to let our community in and explain how and why we do things the way we do. Firstly, I want to discuss the release date and its announcement. One of the biggest let-downs for any gamer is receiving a release date, only for the game or update to not be released on that day! To avoid that major disappointment, we take our time to be absolutely sure we are prepared to release an update on any specified day. It is for this reason alone we simply don’t talk about the release date prior to the announcement.

Secondly, concerning specific character changes, these are topics we simply cannot release due to uncertainty. On our main page, you’ll see the “Current Developer Version:” text to the lower right of the banner. If you keep a close eye on this number, you’ll notice it change on a daily basis. These changes in numbers represent a change made to our build, major or minor. Nothing is truly set in stone until the day of release. If we released character changes it would be highly likely we would be releasing information that could be drastically changed the very next hour! Ideas are tossed around, temporary changes are made, and our playtesters go to work. Simply put, the developer's build is in a constant state of change. So, due to this high rate of change, we simply can’t confidently release game play changes until we are positive such changes will be implemented!

Lastly, on the topic of build leaks and information from parties outside the PMDT. When taking into consideration the point mentioned above, much of what you may hear from other players could very well be incorrect. When leaks or information is publicly released, speculation and arguments instantly ensue, and often turns rather ugly. In all truth, much of this is unnecessary, as the change at hand may not even be implemented into the next build. We avoid negativity among the community because it spreads through the player-base and we certainly don't enjoy seeing any part of the community in disarray. It is for this reason our moderators immediately get involved and take action. The only "leaked" information you can completely trust is one sanctioned and released by the Development Team.

All of us here at the Project M Development Team want you to know that we thoroughly enjoy and value your feedback and support. We go through messages, emails, forums, the reddit boards, Smashboards, and our Facebook page daily to read what you have to say. Our top priority is to provide the best experience for our players. On a personal note, my top priority, and primary role among the PMDT, is to support, connect, and help build up the community. Please keep all these things in mind as Project M presses on towards its bright future and our community grows!

Until then,
-The PM Dev Team
 

lil T

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
282
Location
Freeport IL
Look, all you need to do is add knuckles to Project M and we in there! lol
I'm jk,Lookin forward to 3.5 though.
 

Zolom

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
75
Location
Murrieta, California
Does this mean Shrek WON'T use an onion in his final smash?
We aren't entirely sure yet. It's been a debate now for quite a while whether or not we want to use the onion peels mechanic or have him riding Donkey's wife into battle with Fiona at his side while both wearing armor. They are both great ideas. Whatever does get implemented will surely please the public. Though, I'm not supposed to talk about it, so please don't tell the rest of Dev Team.
 

PMS | Tink-er

fie on thee
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
3,172
Location
Tampa, FL
NNID
emptymetaphor
3DS FC
1337-1337-1337
Shrek can't be in PM! You guys said you wouldn't be backporting any Smash 4 newcomers!
 

robosteven

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
1,181
Location
MA
NNID
robosteven
As one who is scared about the possible balance changes for characters in 3.5, this statement was very reassuring. It's nice to know that you guys actually listen to the players playing your game and I trust you guys with bringing us the best (and hopefully the most balanced) version of PM yet.

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE THANKS ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
 
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666blaziken

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
419
Question (you can PM me about it if you want) what are you most excited about in the next patch? For now, I am excited for the all star verses mode.
 

Krigeris

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
23
so uhh you guys keep trying to add new stuff but the CP's have been ****ed for as long as I can remember, you should really get the game working before you start doing technical stuff like nerfing recoveries.

Don't get me wrong both are important, but to me fixing the CP air dodging off the stage is far more important than some OP recoveries.
 
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Frost | Odds

Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
2,328
Location
Calgary, Alberta
HSecondly, concerning specific character changes, these are topics we simply cannot release due to uncertainty. On our main page, you’ll see the “Current Developer Version:” text to the lower right of the banner. If you keep a close eye on this number, you’ll notice it change on a daily basis. These changes in numbers represent a change made to our build, major or minor. Nothing is truly set in stone until the day of release. If we released character changes it would be highly likely we would be releasing information that could be drastically changed the very next hour! Ideas are tossed around, temporary changes are made, and our playtesters go to work. Simply put, the developer's build is in a constant state of change. So, due to this high rate of change, we simply can’t confidently release game play changes until we are positive such changes will be implemented!
This is fair enough, but I still can't fathom why there's strict secrecy about possible or proposed character changes. We in the rest of the community aren't (all) complete idiots or children-- we're capable of discussing possible changes without being committed to the idea that those exact changes are the ones that must be in the final version.

This is problematic for Bowser specifically, because he's got a relatively small player base, and even fewer that are remotely competent, or who really understand how he works -- and the majority of those are not in the PMDT. I'm sure the same is true of some other characters, though I'm pretty ignorant about many of them.

Why not let us help, or add to the discussion? It's not as though you lose anything by having a few extra brains to bounce ideas off of. =/
 
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Zolom

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
75
Location
Murrieta, California
Question (you can PM me about it if you want) what are you most excited about in the next patch? For now, I am excited for the all star verses mode.
Personally, I am most excited about the character changes. I am huge on balance, and this update is going to provide a lot of that. I enjoy the fun, new, cool modes as much as the next guy, but being a TO, a Dev Team member, and a competitive player, I find the overall state of the game to be its most important and exciting factor.

Which leads me to my next reply:

so uhh you guys keep trying to add new stuff but the CP's have been ****ed for as long as I can remember, you should really get the game working before you start doing technical stuff like nerfing recoveries.

Don't get me wrong both are important, but to me fixing the CP air dodging off the stage is far more important than some OP recoveries.
Bear in mind that the PMDT is comprised of a limited number of individuals who spend hours on the game equivalent to a second job for no financial gain. As much as we would like to perfect the game in every aspect, we don't have the time or man-power. All things will come in time, but we need time.

As a personal statement, I'm shocked you value smarter CPUs over having a balanced competitive game! Still, its another thing on the list of to-dos that we are getting around to. Our first order of business at this time is work work work on 3.5!
 

SorrowOfAcheron

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
381
Location
Gales
Okay, I know you probably get lots of questions about this, but can we get a rough estimate of when P:M will be available in PAL regions?
I'm dying to play.
Please.
 

Bazkip

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
3,136
Location
Canada
Okay, I know you probably get lots of questions about this, but can we get a rough estimate of when P:M will be available in PAL regions?
I'm dying to play.
Please.
A while back they said their next release would likely support PAL, so you'll probably have it when 3.5 comes out.
 

azzucips

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
62
Location
Chicago, IL
NNID
Azzucips
3DS FC
1461-6305-7845
I appreciate everything the PMBR has done with the game, really. But this post literally gave us no information at all and is not important whatsoever.
 

archedmaid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Messages
166
I think the reason people like better cpu some times is because players can adapt and learn to be better, but if you don't always have another human your only practice is vastly uncomparable.
 

Alakaslam

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
954
Location
Southern California
I appreciate everything the PMBR has done with the game, really. But this post literally gave us no information at all and is not important whatsoever.
PFFT did not understand article

Anyway I say this

Buff peach speed little bit? Buff Dair priority? Nerf dsmash a bit? Nerf bob-omb & stitch?

... Buff the sword? (Pretty please)

;D

Do not answer just check it out

I think the reason people like better cpu some times is because players can adapt and learn to be better, but if you don't always have another human your only practice is vastly uncomparable.
AI will never be like a human. It will always either be so perfect you gain nothing from practice (YouTube "starcraft automaton 3000) or "Intentionally stupid"
 
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McSlur

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
222
Location
Trashville, Colorado
I appreciate everything the PMBR has done with the game, really. But this post literally gave us no information at all and is not important whatsoever.
Wrong, it highlighted the reasons why the PM(BR)DT operates like they do. I already knew most of these things, 'cept that Zolom as the PR of the team. For the people who didn't know most of these things, the post told them. For the people who already knew the things in the post, it reminded them of it.

Based on how you (Zolom) said the developer changes almost daily, I'm starting to think that the PMDT doesn't even know what Ganondorf's new backhand is yet. :D
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
I appreciate everything the PMBR has done with the game, really. But this post literally gave us no information at all and is not important whatsoever.
telling the community "we care what you have to say" after a 300+ person tournament is still a big deal. they could stop right now and be like this is the last version and it would still be fantastic.
 

Nefnoj

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
1,911
Location
Spiral Mountain
Would you guys be willing to make a release time, rather than a specific date? I understand - and appreciate your reasoning, especially since people get so mad when a release date gets pushed back for fine-tuning, though "This Winter" would be a wee bit better than nothing. Also - will you tease EVERYTHING? I would like to see a few surprise unteased costumes when the update comes out, that's half the fun!
I was also wondering - Project M seems to be geared towards the competitive community, and not casuals like myself, (even though it's still abnormally fun and necessary) would there be any more casual stages in the future? For example, I love your Norfair stage-structure... But I also love the active lava, would there be any chance for a combination of the two, to appeal to different players?
Also, curious Poltergust for Luigi's grab: Would it be possible?

Keep up the good work, everything you do is absolutely beautiful! Of all Smash Bros., Project M is easily the best! Has any of the Project M team gotten jobs thanks to Project M? I imagine if you showed your work to Valve or Bethesda, they would slap you in the face with a job there and then!

Last question... How much has Smash Bros. for the 3DS affected work progress? I imagine that it's a big factor in any and all delays, haha.
 

otheusrex

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
342
Just make zelda good and fun to play as/against. I don't care what changes you make to her so long as you make a zelda that you yourself would enjoy playing as, not just a zelda that you'd have fun fighting.

This is problematic for Bowser specifically, because he's got a relatively small player base, and even fewer that are remotely competent, or who really understand how he works -- and the majority of those are not in the PMDT.
-- Odds

I greatly sympathize with this because now there are no PMDT members who play zelda at all. And please don't mention that ryoko is in the backroom, because he stopped participating when the PMBR stopped valuing his opinion on his own character.

All of us here at the Project M Development Team want you to know that we thoroughly enjoy and value your feedback and support. We go through messages, emails, forums, the reddit boards, Smashboards, and our Facebook page daily to read what you have to say.
If this is true then I suppose we can just discuss the rumors in our forums. Some of the rumors people hear are bound to be true, and then the PMDT will have feedback about them.
 

TreK

Is "that guy"
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
2,960
Location
France
Europe : 742M inhabitants
North America : 582M inhabitants

PAL version plz :C
As a European TO it's already extremely hard to deal with the language barrier, the higher cost of transportation and the generally lower interest in E-Sports, I don't need potential players and venue owners to pull the "I don't do piracy" card on me every other day :C
 
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moonfolk

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
85
Thanks for this post! I feel like most people just have more questions/suggestions, lol. This game is great, you guys are great, and people need to remember that you are all doing this for free. Great job!
 

Pikmin1211

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
499
Location
Canada, eh?
NNID
Pikmin1211
3DS FC
0044-3220-8865
I like that new purple Olimar, lol. A few questions, though.
Why can't Melee Green Jigglypuff be added? Someone told me that you won't be adding it officially, I was wondering why.
Any chance you can un-glitch Olimar's Up-B anytime soon?
I know you guys are watching your backs on copyright stuff, but any chance we may see recolors based on newer characters? (Alph-based Olimar, Robin-based Roy, etc.) NOT COSTUMES, but colors based on them.
Lastly, will there still be wifi safe versions? Nintendo wifi is shut down, but there are alt servers so I would hope you would keep both versions, at least for replays if nothing else.

Anyway, love your work, 3.5 HYPE, and thanks for reading!
 

Kawaii Jesus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
3
Location
Detroit, Michigan
I hope the nerfs go more in the direction of making a character's downfalls bigger. Instead of weakening their good points. I also really dislike small alterations in frames/timing/speed of attacks. Only because it's so difficult to relearn muscle memory that you've worked hard to ingrain it so deep that it's almost automatic.

All that aside, I'm very excited for 3.5. And trust that the PMBR know what they're doing.
 

CaptainKirby

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
1,150
Location
TX
I have a feeling 3.5 will be available some time around in November, separate of Sm4sh Wii U's release proximity. I can only hope, anyway...

Thanks for the post, and I appreciate all the hard work you and the rest of the dev team are putting into this mod. Always impressing further and further with each update. :)
 
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Vashimus

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
3,308
Location
Newark, NJ
This is fair enough, but I still can't fathom why there's strict secrecy about possible or proposed character changes. We in the rest of the community aren't (all) complete idiots or children-- we're capable of discussing possible changes without being committed to the idea that those exact changes are the ones that must be in the final version.

This is problematic for Bowser specifically, because he's got a relatively small player base, and even fewer that are remotely competent, or who really understand how he works -- and the majority of those are not in the PMDT. I'm sure the same is true of some other characters, though I'm pretty ignorant about many of them.

Why not let us help, or add to the discussion? It's not as though you lose anything by having a few extra brains to bounce ideas off of. =/
Brawl+ divulged practically everything to the community concerning possible balance changes and the overall direction of the mod. A whole lot of good that did the game.
 
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DahremRuhar

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
594
Location
Syracuse, NY
Will Shrek get new alt costumes?
I was actually curious about this as well. Will Drek be an alt for Shrek, or a semi-clone, like Pit and Dark Pit in Smash 4?
This is so important to me BasedPMDT, and I'm more entitled than almost everyone else since I've literally followed this thing since like pre-alpha.

Srsly.

I have.
 
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TimeSmash

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,669
Location
Inside a cheesecake
NNID
nintend64
Guys this is great and all but none of you have addressed Nick Minaj's terrible disjointed booty hitboxes. I shouldn't be on the other side of FD and be able to get back aired by her

Seriously though, love you PMDT!!!
 

PMS | Tink-er

fie on thee
Joined
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Messages
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Tampa, FL
NNID
emptymetaphor
3DS FC
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As a personal statement, I'm shocked you value smarter CPUs over having a balanced competitive game! Still, its another thing on the list of to-dos that we are getting around to. Our first order of business at this time is work work work on 3.5!
Nana's AI plz fix BibleThump
 

Thane of Blue Flames

Fire is catching.
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
3,135
Location
The other side of Sanity
so uhh you guys keep trying to add new stuff but the CP's have been ****ed for as long as I can remember, you should really get the game working before you start doing technical stuff like nerfing recoveries.

Don't get me wrong both are important, but to me fixing the CP air dodging off the stage is far more important than some OP recoveries.
Other Smash games don't even have semi-competent CPUs.

Also no one cares about CPUs.
 

standardtoaster

Tubacabra
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
9,253
Location
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Okay, I know you probably get lots of questions about this, but can we get a rough estimate of when P:M will be available in PAL regions?
I'm dying to play.
Please.
Europe : 742M inhabitants
North America : 582M inhabitants

PAL version plz :C
As a European TO it's already extremely hard to deal with the language barrier, the higher cost of transportation and the generally lower interest in E-Sports, I don't need potential players and venue owners to pull the "I don't do piracy" card on me every other day :C
We are working hard to try and produce a PAL version this time around. However, our staff for porting is extremely small (Almas and I only at the moment). I cannot guarantee the PAL release being available at the same time as the NTSC given how long it takes us to port things and our current academic schedules.
 

TimeSmash

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,669
Location
Inside a cheesecake
NNID
nintend64
Awwww toasty I didn't know you were in school.

You guys are doing great, regardless. Art Tuesdays are filling my hype
 

JbrockPony

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Gerudo Valley , Chicago
NNID
JbrockPony
PMDT made my day when I saw the Jet Set Sonic. This to me shows the diverse taste of games the developers have. God I love you guys. Keep up the good work.

Looking forward to the 3.5 release more than Smash 4 on Wii U now lol.
 

Zolom

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
75
Location
Murrieta, California
Thank you all for all the love and replies! Support from our community is a big motivation for us to keep pressing on and bringing the best to you.


Would you guys be willing to make a release time, rather than a specific date? I understand - and appreciate your reasoning, especially since people get so mad when a release date gets pushed back for fine-tuning, though "This Winter" would be a wee bit better than nothing. Also - will you tease EVERYTHING? I would like to see a few surprise unteased costumes when the update comes out, that's half the fun!
I was also wondering - Project M seems to be geared towards the competitive community, and not casuals like myself, (even though it's still abnormally fun and necessary) would there be any more casual stages in the future? For example, I love your Norfair stage-structure... But I also love the active lava, would there be any chance for a combination of the two, to appeal to different players?
Also, curious Poltergust for Luigi's grab: Would it be possible?

Keep up the good work, everything you do is absolutely beautiful! Of all Smash Bros., Project M is easily the best! Has any of the Project M team gotten jobs thanks to Project M? I imagine if you showed your work to Valve or Bethesda, they would slap you in the face with a job there and then!

Last question... How much has Smash Bros. for the 3DS affected work progress? I imagine that it's a big factor in any and all delays, haha.
I can see this being quite reasonable. However, we've all had moments where life throws a major curve-ball. To account for these major occurrences, I can understand why we would stray away from that idea. Not to mention, we want the community to play the game, not entice some to just wait until the next build. Fact is, the community holds a lot more power than one would think. There is a reason we keep a close on tournament play. ; )

No, we most certainly are not teasing everything. There are quite a many things, small and large, and folks will be pleased to see only upon release date.

I actually thought Brawl's Norfair was a lot of fun in that goofy sense, so I understand. As it stands, there are a lot of casual stages to currently work with. There are quite a few stage fanatics on the team, so don't be surprised if you do end up getting what you're asking for eventually!


This is fair enough, but I still can't fathom why there's strict secrecy about possible or proposed character changes. We in the rest of the community aren't (all) complete idiots or children-- we're capable of discussing possible changes without being committed to the idea that those exact changes are the ones that must be in the final version.

This is problematic for Bowser specifically, because he's got a relatively small player base, and even fewer that are remotely competent, or who really understand how he works -- and the majority of those are not in the PMDT. I'm sure the same is true of some other characters, though I'm pretty ignorant about many of them.

Why not let us help, or add to the discussion? It's not as though you lose anything by having a few extra brains to bounce ideas off of. =/
This is a touchy one where feelings could get hurt, but I'll just say it straight. Not everyone is qualified, but those who are will apply for the PMDT and likely be accepted. As much as I'd like to believe otherwise, the internet isn't a very healthy place for positive, constructive discussion, no matter how you try to shape it. If folks have the motivation, knowledge, and creativity they will apply for the PMDT on their own terms. Those who want to make a positive impact will try, and those kinds of individuals are what we want.


There are questions here that I have not responded. There are 2 reasons I would not have replied. Either I don't know the answer or I simply can't go into detail. For now, I'll do my best to answer everyone's questions and concerns, if applicable.
 

1ampercent

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
310
Location
Australia
Firstly, I would like to say thank you to everyone in the PMDT for putting a lot of work/effort in the development of P:M. I can't wait for 3.5 to be released, with all its new content and character changes.

Secondly, I know this question might be too specific, but has there been any upgrade in the game's engine to make it seem a bit smoother? I can't really explain it, but there's a fair amount of people saying that their Melee mains feels slightly 'off' for whatever reason. I remember there were some key changes between 3.00-3.02 to reduce lag (some stages and char models were optimized), and I remember my performance has noticeably improved when I updated to 3.02. Is there a chance that there is still some lag issues present in the current 3.02 build? If so, is that is going to be fixed in 3.5?
 

Mr. Ganondorf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Messages
297
Location
Hanford, CA
Has anyone in the PMDT fooled around with Melee SD Remix 3.1?

The changelogs for that game, their philosophies, and their team could be a great resource.

They need some help with PR and advertising too. I only found out about SD Remix just today and still haven't tried it yet. What if we could somehow get SD Remix and PM on the same SD card? Or at the very least, advertise them together and provide links on the same site? I think it would help sway some of the hardcore Melee elitists to be more open minded and gravitate toward PM, if SD Remix was their "gateway drug."

http://uglook.net/writing/sdremix/#misc
 
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