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Let's Work On Your Coordination: The WFT Video and Critique Thread

G-Guy

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Hey Guys! I recorded a really intense match I had against an amazing Villager. I hope you can enjoy it even though it's been recorded in glorious phone quality :-)

 

cwjakesteel

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Hey Guys! I recorded a really intense match I had against an amazing Villager. I hope you can enjoy it even though it's been recorded in glorious phone quality :-)

Wow very nice play by both you and him. As a villager main I was kinda hoping he would have won :p especially after seeing that tree kill. :4villager:
 
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ぱみゅ

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I don't see the necessity. There aren't an awful lot of videos (specially post-patch), and most of them are WiFi, so, there is no need to compile them just yet.
 

mmik

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Just a couple replays I recorded last night of me doing WFT tricks and such lol. Enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVLyZm_Gagc&feature=youtu.be
I see a lot of reversed SS in your games. Would you say these are really necessary? because right now I wouldn't be able to do them smoothly. I'd almost have to halt my game to think about how to do it, instead of just bouncing around and doing it randomly like you're so good at. But some of em are just like, you short hopping, double jumping away and b reverse uncharged ss and I don't see a point to it besides being flashy.

But I'm awful. so.

I guess what I mean to say is half the time it seems like you're doing random stuff just for fun / no real reason. And then in-between clowning around, you're stomping your opponent who's just trying to figure out what the heck you're doing. Is that what you actually aim for? frying your opponent's brain?

Edit: alright I managed to upload a video of me playing if I can get some advice. I shouldn't have won but the stage helped me.
http://youtu.be/6OZOlPCXTWc
 
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ANTi_

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I see a lot of reversed SS in your games. Would you say these are really necessary? because right now I wouldn't be able to do them smoothly. I'd almost have to halt my game to think about how to do it, instead of just bouncing around and doing it randomly like you're so good at. But some of em are just like, you short hopping, double jumping away and b reverse uncharged ss and I don't see a point to it besides being flashy.

But I'm awful. so.

I guess what I mean to say is half the time it seems like you're doing random stuff just for fun / no real reason. And then in-between clowning around, you're stomping your opponent who's just trying to figure out what the heck you're doing. Is that what you actually aim for? frying your opponent's brain?

Edit: alright I managed to upload a video of me playing if I can get some advice. I shouldn't have won but the stage helped me.
http://youtu.be/6OZOlPCXTWc
I do it so that my back is facing towards my opponent so it puts me in a position to back-air them if they get too close to me since that's one of WFT's strongest kill moves.
 

Wrexsoul

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Hey Guys! I recorded a really intense match I had against an amazing Villager. I hope you can enjoy it even though it's been recorded in glorious phone quality :-)

Neat game. :) Villager is such a troll. One observation I made: You would gain tons from not always jumping up when you're hanging on the ledge and the opponent's off-stage. There were a lot of times in that game where you could have ledge trumped by pressing back and then doing a jumping bair, pressing back and do a reverse headbutt, or press back and do a headbutt towards stage. Also, one nice trick with WFT against people when they ledge guard you is to quickly press back when hanging on the ledge, then immediately press forward-B and B again for a quick charge header. This will send the soccer ball parallell with the stage and hit them/cause them to shield/dodge while you regrab the ledge. Just be careful since you no longer have your ledge invisibility.
 

G-Guy

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Neat game. :) Villager is such a troll. One observation I made: You would gain tons from not always jumping up when you're hanging on the ledge and the opponent's off-stage. There were a lot of times in that game where you could have ledge trumped by pressing back and then doing a jumping bair, pressing back and do a reverse headbutt, or press back and do a headbutt towards stage. Also, one nice trick with WFT against people when they ledge guard you is to quickly press back when hanging on the ledge, then immediately press forward-B and B again for a quick charge header. This will send the soccer ball parallell with the stage and hit them/cause them to shield/dodge while you regrab the ledge. Just be careful since you no longer have your ledge invisibility.
Thanks a lot for the advice! Yeah, jumping from the ledge is a habit i shook off over the last couple of weeks, but your advice is really good.
thanks!
 

⑨ball

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@ G-Guy G-Guy Have you tried her instant ledge hop as an alternative? It's really good for her ledge game and is way better than jumping up from the ledge. It also puts you into perfect position to Usmash if you bait a punish by going for the ledge jump a lot.
 

G-Guy

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@ G-Guy G-Guy Have you tried her instant ledge hop as an alternative? It's really good for her ledge game and is way better than jumping up from the ledge. It also puts you into perfect position to Usmash if you bait a punish by going for the ledge jump a lot.
Oh? I believe i hear about that for the first time now! Mind linking me to the thread that goes deeper into that? I am really interested! :-)
 

mmik

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Hey can someone take a look at my video please? It's a bit old now but it takes a bit of effort to upload so it'd be nice to get comments still.
 

Diabolique

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Hey can someone take a look at my video please? It's a bit old now but it takes a bit of effort to upload so it'd be nice to get comments still.
I'm not amazing or anything but since I don't want you to go without advice:

I would just generally work on your spacing / positioning. A lot of times you were way too close to DK when you really didn't need to be. In addition you also have a tendency to land near him, like in ~2:07. DK must come to you so I feel you approached him too much and when you did, it was often carelessly, like in 2:27 (don't use Fair like that, you can use it as a cross up i.e. landing behind them and hitting with the leg part of Fair)

This is even a habit that I am trying to break, but do not finish a jab combo on someone that shields the first and second hit. It will just put you at an even larger frame disadvantage.

So generally I would just play a bit safer, try to weave attacks in between his, especially against characters with a spammable Fair / Bair like DK, Marth, etc. rather than play footies with them.
 

mmik

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Some good advice, thanks. I think I have a tendency to try to be "under foot." where I'm annoyingly close to someone and they can't manage to get their hands on my throat. Kind of how I play villager. I have gotten better about that recently and I've been working on my projectile game. I am thinking about switching my controls to A as jump, so I can do shorthop b moves easier. If that happens I'm going to be painfully horrible with every character for weeks...

I know I felt really dumb running into that upsmash he threw out. That was totally avoidable by just having a more cautious mindset. If I get a good match this weekend (non forglor hopefully) I'll post it so I can see if I'm doing better. :>
 

Niala

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Hey can someone take a look at my video please? It's a bit old now but it takes a bit of effort to upload so it'd be nice to get comments still.
First of all I'd check some of the threads about her combos and maybe practice up on them. I think I saw 1 Nair that whole match and that's basically her combo move, and it's especially easy to hit against a character like DK. As well, DThrow IS NOT a good throw for her (particularly at low %s). On paper it seems okay, and it would be very good if it didn't have as much ending lag as it does, but at early %s it actually puts WFT in a more compromising position than her opponent. Usually they can throw out a hitbox to cover themselves and your Bair is very linear and will likely lose the trade. UThrow>Uair is a safe bet against most characters, and remember to frame trap with it too.

You need to practice in general because the DK just had better spacing than you did. Charge your SS more, too, there's nothing DK can do to deter you from doing that. Lastly, try not to use your header so immediately offstage. There are times when you can save it to go for a spike or to avoid his offstage pressure instead of just throwing a painfully obvious soccer ball at him for the sake of it. Practice lots~
 
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mmik

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Thanks! I have no idea what frame trapping is. Didn't know that about dthrow..

It's really hard to imagine doing combos with nair. That's probably why I don't use it much. If I figure out how to actually do it I probably would. Reading combo topics that just say things like "sh nair>utilt>nair" don't really help because they leave out the explanation on how to actually string the attacks together.
 

Diabolique

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Thanks! I have no idea what frame trapping is. Didn't know that about dthrow..

It's really hard to imagine doing combos with nair. That's probably why I don't use it much. If I figure out how to actually do it I probably would. Reading combo topics that just say things like "sh nair>utilt>nair" don't really help because they leave out the explanation on how to actually string the attacks together.
Frame trapping is basically leaving time and baiting and punishing a reaction. For example if you use Uthrow to send a person up, you can full jump after them and (usually) people will air dodge or try to Dair you. you then wait for the air dodge or attack to complete and then hit them when they are still coming out of the dodge / attack animation. You can do this in a wide variety of situations and not just throws. Mix up the timing of the attacks and you can catch people off guard.

Basically combos with Nair are pretty customizable. My personal favorite is:

(From low %s) Short Hop Cross over Nair -> land -> Ftilt (since you crossed over, they should be hit by the leg and be popped up) - Full Hop Nair -> Double Jump -> Uair -> Fast Side B

The Uair has a hitbox that starts in front of you and then moves up. this hitbox sends diagonally from you to the point where you can Side B. Most people will air dodge as soon as they see the headbutt, leaving them straight open for the ball when it's done.

Some people also like to do: Nair -> Utilt -> Nair -> Nair (-> Nair) -> Uair but I find that this stales Nair a lot which can be either good or bad (good becasue it allows you to combo easier, bad because it won't do a lot of damage later)

At higher percents, a simple Nair -> Full Hop / Double Jump Uair is a good combo.

I know this is hella blurry and poor quality, but this is generally what I do for Nair combos:

He jumped over the Side B, probably because I pulled it off earlier in the match and instead he jumped. but now you can catch his landing so it isn't that bad. This combo did 0-66% (I had DB on for the first few attacks)
 
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Wrexsoul

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Hey guys! I'm going to a local tourney in a week, and I've decided to do some Fitness representin'. I did some games with a friend today and would love to get feedback/criticism on my WFT, preferably ASAP so I have time to correct stuff before the tourney. :p My friend plays Sheik, and he's pretty new with him, but still did good. Games are here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNspss2itRI&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i1DrxuzU5U&feature=youtu.be

This thread doesn't seem super active, but it'd be awesome if you could help me out a bit.
 
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mmik

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Not that I'm any better about it, but I saw some excessive rolling in there that you should work on. I saw you get punished for it a few times, too. Seems like sheik's dash attack was pretty good at picking you out of a roll.

And don't forget you can walljump. I'm watching you do a lot of low recoveries that might have been a lot safer if you walljumped before using upb. I'm surprised some of them actually made it. It could just look like you're going lower than you really are though. (on the second vid)

There are combos using wft's areals that I'm not too sure of, but you should look into some of the combo game because I don't think I saw too much. her nair is really good and I didn't see many air attacks outside of chases. Maybe that kind of thing isn't good against sheik though? idk I'm still learning a lot myself.
 

Wrexsoul

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Not that I'm any better about it, but I saw some excessive rolling in there that you should work on. I saw you get punished for it a few times, too. Seems like sheik's dash attack was pretty good at picking you out of a roll.

And don't forget you can walljump. I'm watching you do a lot of low recoveries that might have been a lot safer if you walljumped before using upb. I'm surprised some of them actually made it. It could just look like you're going lower than you really are though. (on the second vid)

There are combos using wft's areals that I'm not too sure of, but you should look into some of the combo game because I don't think I saw too much. her nair is really good and I didn't see many air attacks outside of chases. Maybe that kind of thing isn't good against sheik though? idk I'm still learning a lot myself.
Thanks a bunch, great stuff! :) Yeah, I really need to stop rolling so much. And yes, I had totally forgotten about walljumping! Or rather, I need to remember to sit down soon and practise doing it fluently so I can do it without thinking too much about it.

I do like WFT's aerials a ton, but I have a hard time approaching with them - seems Sheik outranges and/or outprioritizes them all pretty easily... I love hitting with nair, but most of the time when I try something like SHFF nair I just get punished for it. Any more thoughts on how I can work on this?

More criticism is welcome, folks!
 

mmik

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Yea I usually say do what works. I can't help on the aerials because I'm still not sure myself. :p
 

deepseadiva

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Header is such a goddamn beautiful move. Such excellent properties.
 

Niala

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Hey guys! I'm going to a local tourney in a week, and I've decided to do some Fitness representin'. I did some games with a friend today and would love to get feedback/criticism on my WFT, preferably ASAP so I have time to correct stuff before the tourney. :p My friend plays Sheik, and he's pretty new with him, but still did good. Games are here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNspss2itRI&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i1DrxuzU5U&feature=youtu.be

This thread doesn't seem super active, but it'd be awesome if you could help me out a bit.

Ledge trumps are the first thing I notice. Try to be mindful of when you're going to get one, because I see a ton of missed opportunities to fall off the ledge jump Bair where instead you just get up attack on the ledge.

Work on your defense on-stage. I can't even count the amount of times where she just walked up to you and dash attacked for free, no shield no attempt at countering the hit.

Jab3>dtilt. I mean it's good damage and all, but it doesn't always work (i.e. low percents.) Try other mixups after grounding an opponent, for example, follow them into the air with Fair/Nair, or even charge a USmash at high percents and catch them just as they leave the ground.

Dear god use Nair people it's so good. It does 13%, which more than Fair, Uair, and Bair, comes out so fast, has relatively little landing lag (although not negligible) and is a guaranteed followup at almost any percent.
 

Blue Ninjakoopa

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Here's a video of some nice WFT play by Daiki that I would argue is near AnTi's level. He uses him at the 10:00 mark:


Daiki didn't respect Falcon enough and wasn't aware of his character's weight, dying to a people's elbow from near the middle of Town & City. He seemed to know what he was doing and gave the Falcon (Shadow) a run for his money. I know I'm digressing a bit but I think WFT vs. rushdown characters like Fox and Falcon is a good MU for WFT, since s/he's capable of hitting just as hard and being just as fast, and said rushdown characters are more vulnerable to any of WFT's comboing moves. Plus WFT has good projectiles, and vs. Fox specifically, the reward from conditioning and punishing reflector is huge. Meteoring their recoveries isn't too difficult either.

Here's Megafox as WFT @7:15 (vs. Espy's Meta Knight) and 11:15 (vs. Espy's Pac-Man):


These weren't serious picks unfortunately, but competent nonetheless.

Now here is someone who actually mains WFT, goes by the tag "FunCrazyFish" and I remember at the first San Antonio monthly he took Denti to game 3 (no video tho :<). Here's him fighting Paw (ZSS):


I like how he used the header soccer ball as a sort of "sponge" in game too, although it didn't connect with anything, you could see that it was placed that way to absorb attacks. I also really liked the baiting with Deep Breathing and the off-stage aggression.

vs. Sylveon (Donkey Kong game 1, Ganondorf game 2):


Another good match, though there was intense respect for DK's KO power. It was reasonable, too; heavies can be scary as f***, especially Bowser. O_o In game 2 FCF got tagged by a few devastating moves from Ganon, in the end superior mobility and off-stage game came through.

vs. Espy (Sonic)


A pseudo-heartbreaker because FCF would probably have won game 2 if he hadn't made that mistake on his second stock. :( Highlights the Sanic MU.

There is a video of FCF vs. KPrime (a notable Pikachu main), but in that video, FCF uses Palutena games 1 and 2, and I can understand why: Pikachu dodges all of WFT's moves 95% of the time, especially grab and f-tilt. That MU is so frustrating and I think it needs to be addressed in a patch (simply increase the width of the grabbox on grab and the hitbox on... all of WFT's normals lol, at least to where they can actually connect on a grounded Pikachu).
 
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DRU192

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Found this while scouring Youtube for new WFT AT vids, didn't notice anybody had posted it so thought I'd share. I'm particularly intrigued by the use of Uair near the ground as a combo starter.

http://youtu.be/fCuJ1H4h70I
 
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