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Let's Work On Your Coordination: The WFT Video and Critique Thread

Jellyfishn

Jellyfishn

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⑨ball said:
Lol, golden all three.
I'd recommend learning how to use lagless header. It'll make weighted header so much better you won't believe. Covers her biggest weakness in range and compliments every single other thing that makes her good.

Also it wouldn't hurt to learn jab follow ups. Free damage for mashers and kill setups on the slow. Greninja in particular gets this really bad because of his fall speed.

Lastly, keep in mind that jumbo hoops can carry people off stage and make it back, so your last kill(which was done correctly as it was his last stock) is a viable option even when you have a stock deficit if you know how to carry them upwards and then return. Practice it and piss people off.
(:
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips! I will work on those!

One thing my friend is really good at is mixing up what he does when I get him grounded in the floor. Sometimes he will mash out really fast and sometimes he will just wait for me. Just got to get the read I guess.
 
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crisspy727

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moofpi

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⑨ball

⑨ball

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@Waveguider had a good showing at ACT Arena 3

:4tlink:Kevs vs :4wiifit:Waveguider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O74kEq9bcw

:4wario:Skry vs :4wiifit:Waveguider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ib_i9gvvo

:4wiifit:Waveguider vs :rosalina:TJSlash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRGFxgyGXiQ

:4wiifit:Waveguider vs :4metaknight:/:4tlink: Kevs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuL5EEZpBXE

:4wiifit:Waveguider vs :4mario:Bogo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17J1A58HUMM

:4link:LinkTLW vs :4wiifit:Waveguider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15HFG2T0wZQ

:4peach:Lobstar vs :4wiifit:Waveguider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h1BzUtGoUQ

:4sheik:& vs :4wiifit:Waveguider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHGbjiOWink
 
Xyless

Xyless

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http://www.twitch.tv/events2compete/v/5043624?t=51m58s

(Will replace with YouTube link if it's uploaded there)

Twitch archive of my match vs Shion, one of the best players in Chicago (uses Falcon). I die to Raptor Boost like 8 times. Later on I play on stream again, but it's pretty bad since I kept side B'ing off stage against Zamus and she kept flip kick spiking me.
 
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Arean

Arean

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That was a great game! Too bad you fell in the end D: Do you happen to have matches without customs?
 
Beano

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I mostly have been playing Sheik, but WFT is just so.... fun. Here are a few matches from my Wii Fit's tournament debut last week. Critiques much appreciated, especially in regards to the match-up against Kirby, who is overly represented in my region? I never know which moves are going to whiff and when...




 
A

Asdfchris

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Hello, i wonder if you could share some tips for me. Here are a few replays vs 2 of my friends. They are better than me so i don't care if i lose, but i'd like some suggestions on what to improve or how to play the matchup (especially vs ZSS, he is the only one i play with and he wreck me everytime unless i land a lucky header-spike). I play mostly online.
Sorry for the poor quality but i only have an old dazzle that i used for wii recording, but for this it should be enough.

:4wiifit: vs :4ganondorf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I9FpxdHe1I
:4wiifit: vs :4zss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji6r4YW4cEE
:4wiifit: vs :4dedede: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REEQDoXv0xY
:4wiifit: vs :4ganondorf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVR_xqNtwy8
 
⑨ball

⑨ball

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Asdfchris said:
-snip-
Click to expand...
- In general, avoid smashes outside of hard reads and punishes. They're simply not worth the +50 frames of cool down otherwise. Ftilt and Bair are much better options and if you want more range use SS.

- If you're going to shorthop a neutral air make sure you always cross up so you avoid shield grabs and have the option to bair if you like. Otherwise fast fall it. It's range is decent enough that you can pressure shields without getting grabbed by everyone but Palutena, but it's best to always cross it up, you don't lose anything doing this.

- Take advantage of offstage play as often as possible. Bair is super good, fair hits in an area that is a dead zone for most characters and spikes on the back. Dair is another good spike and autocancels if you want to get cheeky on stage. Header is amazing and you'll get a lot out of learning how to edgeguard with it. Offstage play also includes ledge trumps and the like, so be sure you learn how to do them.

- Get an SS charge whenever you can and use Deep Breathing when you're ready to go for the kill.


:4wiifit: vs :4ganondorf:
Ganon's got a lot of power and more range than you so you have to respect him. However you outmaneuver him like crazy and can put on damage just as well if not better with nair combos. Staying low is fantastic here as you will duck nearly everything he can throw at you and react otherwise. Knock him offstage and look to edgeguard.

:4wiifit: vs :4zss:
Another MU that staying low works well in. Keep the sun charged and throw it out against things like her nair spacing and paralyzer shot. She's a fast faller so uthrow to uair is a true combo and sets up airdodge traps well. Jab in general is good but is particularly fantastic against fast fallers and light characters like ZSS. Building up damage slowly and safely on small hits is much better than fishing for huge damage as ftilt comes out fast and hits hard which can net you the kill easily later on. A bit harder to edgeguard because her flip jump is intangible, but not impossible-- look for habits and patterns.

:4wiifit: vs :4dedede:
More range and power but again, no mobility. Similar to Ganon, you have to respect him but be aware of his limitations as he has to commit to attacks if he wants to keep you out which can leave him vulnerable against dash>shield approaches and counter spacing with fully charged SS. Tons of weight so if you don't know how to do nair>usmash combos, you're going to need to press him offstage and hard or else he'll live forever, which can be really bad because rage is devastating on heavies. It's perfectly fine to hold SS if you don't think you can hit him offstage because it's great for catching options from the ledge too.
 
A

Asdfchris

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Thanks for the matchup tips. I usually don't use f-tilt on grounded opponents because i don't want to stale it too much so it can eventually kill. Also can you clarifiy what you meant with:
If you're going to shorthop a neutral air make sure you always cross up
Click to expand...
Do you mean i should go over them?
Edit: okay just saw a thread down there that explaiend what crossup are.
 
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Fancykong

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Beano said:
I mostly have been playing Sheik, but WFT is just so.... fun. Here are a few matches from my Wii Fit's tournament debut last week. Critiques much appreciated, especially in regards to the match-up against Kirby, who is overly represented in my region? I never know which moves are going to whiff and when...
Click to expand...
First off, congrats for using WFT in a tourney setting. She needs all the rep she can get!

Now about Kirby:
Some may disagree with me, but once you get over the shortness, Kirby is pretty manageable.

1. You're faster.
Both your air and ground speed outrank his, so use it aggressively. Uairs will help to condition them to do riskier options, and don't be afraid to run away. Kirby's combos work best against players who move and stop in one place, then move, then stop, etc. The way I play the matchup is by constantly moving and forcing Kirby to react to my pressure. Which comes from...

2. Your projecties.
Short hop Headers will scare Kirby out of his comfort zone (the air), and if he tries to air dodge, he eats an Uair since you have no landing lag from Header if done correctly. Also, mix up your shots with ledge Headers near the ground and cancelled Ftilt Headers to hit even higher. Your SS, especially charged, is an incredible long range punish against his laggy moves like upB, Hammer, coming out of Stone, etc. Not only that, but it ties into your movement options since you can use an aerial move, then start charging and dodge the moment you hit the ground thanks to charge cancelling. Or you can shield and immediately jump again, forcing more chasing by Kirby. This is important! The more impatient he gets, the more risky bis moves become and that's when you hit him with the charged SS.

3. Offstage superiority (without customs):
Your speed and maneuverability carries over into the offstage game, where Kirby's normal edgeguarding techniques are too linear to get in WFT's way. Lazily falling sideways actually ruins Kirby's offstage game if he chases you. Even worse, once he misses, his slow air speed actually hinders him from dodging your spikes. Save your jump, though.
A: Stone: Usually they start up high, giving you plenty of time to grab the ledge and punish. If away fron the ledge, save your jump and use your Header to either spike him or hit him with the ball for a possible stage spike. Up B provides a second opportunity. Beware the double Stone!
B:Dair: most of the time, this is aggressively fast fallen, but you can actually dodge it by falling to left, right, or underneath with your own fast fall (save your jump). Usually you'll end up with the advantage, so just Dair him or whichever spike you prefer.
C: Up B: When used onstage to edgeguard, fall underneath the ledge to dodge the projectile. If you grab the ledge, you can get a free Uair into an air chase. If you aren't at the ledge yet, be patient and see what his next move is before you rush to get back onstage. Up B is also a terrible recovery and Kirby's last resort because of its ledge snap issues. DAIR HIM. JUST. DO IT. STOMP HIM. Count his jumps and stomp during the rising animation of Up B. It's so hilarious. Also, it's totally possible to trick Kirby (and other multi jumpers) into chasing you offstage and wasting their jumps to get back with. Not even Up B wil save him. Laugh. Charge. Deep Breathe. Laugh some more.

That should help a bit. TLDR: Keep moving, play aggressively by running around between melee and projectile range, and spike like you've never spiked before. Just don't play as if Kirby has the advantage and the rest will follow.
 
Fancykong

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Rizen said:
Hi. I'm playing against WFT here but I wondered if you could critique me anyway?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk1KZYgOkxs
Click to expand...
SORRY FOR THE TRIPLE POST:

Link has an unbelievably easy time shutting down WFT. The key lies in using many, many, many, projectiles from afar and abusing tilts up close. TILTS! This is because his arrows/boms can cancel out both the ball and Sun Salutation, and the tilts out range, out speed and overpower all of WFT'S. At most, ypu'll clank with her Ftilt. that's it. But you have easily spammanle kill moves. Use them!

I saw you do this, but do more of jab grab or slow jabs, or even jab tilts. Use the first jab to gauge how the opponent reacts and move from there. Stuff out her aerial approaches with your own, especially fast fallen Bair and Nair.

Use smashes only in certain, guaranteed situations. They can punish your smashes from odd angles that can potentially throw you offstage. That goes for dash attack, too.

When edgeguarding, don't sit around. Toss 18376633 bombs at her to force her to quit messing around. They even block her ball and SS. Bonus points if they have to use up B in a linear fashion, because you can try to Dair spike.

TLDR: As a WFT main, I'm salty about the Link matchup because you have so many annoying tools available. But when you find out what works, hammer that weakness and don't let up.
 
Erimir

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The match against Rosalina was great and entertaining, but damn were the ones against Olimar frustrating to watch because he played so campy and WFT has few ways of breaking through. And people were upset that he was nerfed from Brawl to only have three Pikmin. Such an annoying character. Even FG Olimars vs WFT tend to give me trouble (assuming they have any idea what they're doing).

Are there any ways to deal with that? I was wondering if maybe Enriched or Sweeping SS might've had some advantage against him anyway, since so much of the time you're gonna end up hitting Pikmin with it instead of Olimar. (Not that that helps when customs are off.)
 
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Macchiato

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Erimir said:
The match against Rosalina was great and entertaining, but damn were the ones against Olimar frustrating to watch because he played so campy and WFT has few ways of breaking through. And people were upset that he was nerfed from Brawl to only have three Pikmin. Such an annoying character. Even FG Olimars vs WFT tend to give me trouble (assuming they have any idea what they're doing).

Are there any ways to deal with that? I was wondering if maybe Enriched or Concentrated SS might've had some advantage against him anyway, since so much of the time you're gonna end up hitting Pikmin with it instead of Olimar. (Not that that helps when customs are off.)
Click to expand...
SD and switch to Peach
 
ぱみゅ

ぱみゅ

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Won't really comment on the gameplay, but that's an amazing Music Selection there.
From Lovely WFT to Gravity Falls ♥
 
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lRasha

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Ace posted an Up-Smash kill set up that I wanted to post here.

 
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moofpi

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Nebulous Prime Smash #1
John Numbers :4wiifit:

vs Dire :4yoshi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYAluzSYG-M
vs False :4sheik:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayGBc7dX8oU
vs Zorai :4sheik:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1eWwsxyq5s
vs Angel Cortes:4diddy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfyxApp4nr0
vs False :4sheik:again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DUiBVv5A0A

False's Sheik let John stay on the stage maybe 30% of the time, like damn. Seemed so rough, but he took it to game 5 so good on him. Real glad he stayed Wii Fit even without customs, you da man.
 
Ridel

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ZeRo did a video about Wii Fit's buffs. I wanna hear your thoughts on it.
 
ぱみゅ

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Nah, she still has a lacking neutral, poor non-projectile range, and like no approaching options.
Basically, if she is forced not to use her projectiles, via either rushing her down, pressuring her, or simply having a good reflector/absorb/projectile/anti-camping tool, she has to rely on her aerials, and they're a bit too unsafe to be merged along those high tiers.

:196:
 
⑨ball

⑨ball

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kyokoro_pamuyo said:
Nah, she still has a lacking neutral, poor non-projectile range, and like no approaching options.
Basically, if she is forced not to use her projectiles, via either rushing her down, pressuring her, or simply having a good reflector/absorb/projectile/anti-camping tool, she has to rely on her aerials, and they're a bit too unsafe to be merged along those high tiers.

:196:
Click to expand...
Header change gave her an approach option similar to Villager's lloid, but I agree with the rest. She's getting close to top 15 though. If they fix her usmash so that startup hitbox actually functions and bair autocancels, then yeah, til then we simply work much too hard in comparison just to be level with the high tiers even if our matchups with some of them would suggest otherwise.
 
Erimir

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I don't know where I'd place WFT on the tier list, but ZeRo is simply wrong about a lot of the 1.1.0 changes to WFT, which I would think would call his analysis into question.

He keeps talking about WFT's aerials getting better hitboxes, but as far as I've heard and experienced, only her f-smash and u-smash got improved hitboxes. U-smash is more consistent, but it isn't useful in many more situations than before (it's still generally a poor option against opponents on the ground, for example).

She got a bunch of minor BKB and KBG buffs, but those generally only make her kill ~2-5% earlier (with no rage), which is hardly enough to make her top tier. If it were just one move, it would be basically irrelevant, but since it affects so many moves it's almost universally "WFT kills ~2-5% earlier" which is not nothing, but you know... not going to move her up to the top tiers. Those BKB/KBG changes pretty much don't matter for anything except for that - they don't add any new combos or make it easier to get in or anything, they just make her kill ever so slightly earlier. Yet he talks about them as if they make her much more threatening. They let you kill with one less jab or one less uncharged SS. Oh no.

The damage buff on u-tilt similarly is nice, but isn't a huge change since it's not a kill move nor one of her common ways to rack damage.

The most relevant changes are:
  • Grab range increase and f-smash hitbox extending lower (helpful against short characters, but note: not particularly helpful against characters that are tall enough to not have been problematic in the first place)
  • Damage buff on d-smash makes it kill significantly earlier*
  • Healing buff on Sun Salutation. Aside from the improvement in healing (which is not a huge deal), this puts more pressure on the opponent to approach.
More debatable are the Header changes which are more difficult to interpret as good or bad. I think the increased potential for the soccer ball to block Sun Salutation and for empty Headers is not negligible - they both happen way more than they used to for me. Header cancelling and empty Headers may have more uses than in the past, but they require more exploration and I'm not sure Header cancelling is ever going to be a big part of her metagame. Maybe if I see some video demonstrating its uses in competitive matches... At any rate, this isn't a straightforward, all-upside buff, but it does affect things more than the buffs to her aerials.

*For example, on Little Mac and Captain Falcon, here are the kill percents for uncharged d-smash on lvl 9 CPUs (tested on 3DS training mode):

1.0.9
Little Mac can't recover at 97% (83% with DB) on FD from center
Captain Falcon can't recover at 136% (118% with DB) on FD from center

1.1.0
Little Mac can't recover at 77% (61% with DB) on FD from center
Captain Falcon can't recover at 108% (89% with DB) on FD from center

So you can see it kills 20-22% earlier on Little Mac, 28-29% earlier on CF, which is a lot more significant than the minor differences in kill power for her other moves. And, of course, hitting it close to the edge makes it kill a lot earlier too.
 
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