Too much gsp decrease per loss

[daletron]

I was in elite for a while and had 3.15 million gsp. I had a rough stretch and lost 4 out of 9 matches then dropped to 2.7 million gsp. I win 11 in a row and didnt even get back to 3 million. I lose once after a decent win streak and drop another 40k which sets me back even further. I notice that other people i play around the same gsp dont lose nearly as much after i beat them.

Can you not lose any matches at all now? Or do i have to win 20 in a row for gsp to really start climbing again? Is it harder to get back to elite if you were there for a while? Im beating people with much higher gsp than me and i notice im still not gaining much and they only lose a little. I beat a significanly higher gsp 3 times in a row (they kept rematching probably thinking i was getting lucky because they were so much higher gsp) and saw that they only lost a few thousand and not tens of thousands like what happened to me.

Anyone have any insight? I figure i just have to grind it out with a 95% win rate now. A friend was also saying that they think if more people report you for whatever reason it negatively impacts the way you gain and lose gsp. I'll get people that sometimes give up and sd out of frustration.

On a side note im enjoying the online immensely and will get matched w my tourney rules 99% of the time

 

[meowth_]

So I’m pretty sure roster GSP is what is used to determine “who” you get matched against. I haven’t really paid attention to GSP won/lost. But I guess it was 10x harder going from really low 1mill to 2mill on my alt. And when I lose, I lose a boatload more GSP than I ever did on the initial grind to 3 mill. But I’m getting pitted against people who must have 3 mill roster,at least.

I’m at 1.3 mill on lucina getting put up against ppl who are 2.6 mill. It’s literally insane. And when they have low low low GSP, they are clearly good.

Here’s the kicker. On my alt lucina, even at 300,000 I never get put against non tourney rules. So that, plus the sheet technical skill of my enemies, and the fact that every other game I’m fighting ppl in the high 2 mills, means for sure, there is a roster or hidden component to the matchmaking.

 

[Uopo]

This happened for me too. Even with 96% winrate last 50 games I only climbed from 3m to 3.15m. I even faced some 3.2m dudes but I gain very little gsp from winning them and losing once sends me back +30-40k gsp while I get 1-2k from winning.

 

[R208]

Win 2 games. Person you win against is much higher. Lose 1 against the exact same person? Lower then when you started. What the **** sorta ranking system is this? It's so ****ing bull****. What the **** is the point of winning if you lose it all in a single game?

Yes I'm mad.

 

[daletron]

This happened for me too. Even with 96% winrate last 50 games I only climbed from 3m to 3.15m. I even faced some 3.2m dudes but I gain very little gsp from winning them and losing once sends me back +30-40k gsp while I get 1-2k from winning.

Yes! It's so infuriating. I don't understand at all. Losing once sets me back +30-40K gsp, even after winning 10-15 matches in a row. I wouldn't even care if this was consistent for everybody but I notice that other people i beat only lose +1-3K gsp (even after multiple losses). I don't even mind grinding again I just want an explanation from nintendo. I'm also curious if others have experienced this.

 

[Coolboy]

that is why i do not play alot with my faves now that they have high GSP cause 1 or 2 losses means i can start over again..and i say hell no to that! >:l if 1 lose once with them i already switch cause i don't feel like losing this much GSP, cause the game likes to screw you over with losses..the game likes to punish us it seems -.-

 

[Uopo]

Yes! It's so infuriating. I don't understand at all. Losing once sets me back +30-40K gsp, even after winning 10-15 matches in a row. I wouldn't even care if this was consistent for everybody but I notice that other people i beat only lose +1-3K gsp (even after multiple losses). I don't even mind grinding again I just want an explanation from nintendo. I'm also curious if others have experienced this.

It's definately not consistent for everybody. While I was 3m and fought 3.2m player, he only lost 2k gsp/loss.. I didnt have this problem until like a week ago. Not sure if this is bug or intended. I have 2k games played as ganon and it seems this started to happen out of the blue. Maybe other characters low gsp affects your mains gsp?

 

[Scottfrankd]

Win 2 games. Person you win against is much higher. Lose 1 against the exact same person? Lower then when you started. What the **** sorta ranking system is this? It's so ****ing bull****. What the **** is the point of winning if you lose it all in a single game?

Yes I'm mad.

Me too.

I wish Elite wasn't a thing. Having the elite status doesn't really change anything in online play, since anyone can get in with some cheese and a laggy connection. But the fact that it exists and some of my characters are greyed out is reeeeeeeally annoying to look at.

Also.......... why do I STILL not get the colour I picked for my character?

 

[R208]

So, most MMR-based ranking systems have an accelerated increase/decrease of rank at the beginning of the ranking process. I have a working theory that Nintendo forgot to give it an off Switch AND would have wins weighted higher then losses at first to get better people to elite faster. This means Win acceleration would degrade a lot faster to get to the baseline. Sound familiar?

I've got from 5 games to make up a loss (against similarly ranked people) to FIFTEEN. I'm at, like, a 95% win rate overall now because I'm not being put against people on my actual level and I'm slowly losing more GSP then I can farm with wins.

But hey. My Pichu is still A-OK. "Normal" gains and losses.

Edit: 4k for a win. 60k for a loss. What the **** is this.

 

[daletron]

I got to a point where it takes 12-15 wins to make up for 1 loss. I also let my gsp drop below 2 million to see what matchups and gsp i get when that low. It's strange because i only match up with players above 3.1 million (all killers that know what theyre doing). Theyre probably wondering what the hell is going on when they lose and see that they have nearly twice my gsp. I lose about 300k of gsp for every loss. Notice that everyone else loses 10-20k for a loss. Frustrating but i love that i only get matched against high gsp players.

As an experiment i created a new user profile on my switch and pay for one month of online. I unlock my main and go straight to quick play. I get to elite in 8 games. I proceed to play 50 games in elite and im still there. My winrate is just under 92% and my gsp is 3.265.

I know it's silly but i feel slightly better knowing that this system truly is nonsense. I was starting to doubt myself and thought maybe everyone else was just crushing. Nope. Now im just having fun with my low gsp account. For some reason it still only matches me to very high gsp players (was getting a bunch of 3.2s) so the practice is amazing. Im taking more chances and playing more aggressively now that i dont care if gsp tanks for a loss

 

[peekpeek]

Win 2 games. Person you win against is much higher. Lose 1 against the exact same person? Lower then when you started. What the **** sorta ranking system is this? It's so ****ing bull****. What the **** is the point of winning if you lose it all in a single game?

Yes I'm mad.

That's a feature of literally ANY Elo system. You match with somebody the same Rating. You win. You are now up. The amount you can lose in that second match is now slightly higher than the amount you won in the second match.

It's definately not consistent for everybody. While I was 3m and fought 3.2m player, he only lost 2k gsp/loss.. I didnt have this problem until like a week ago. Not sure if this is bug or intended. I have 2k games played as ganon and it seems this started to happen out of the blue. Maybe other characters low gsp affects your mains gsp?

That is totally expected. You are matched on MMR, but GSP is Rank. When you are in an area of the rating distribution with fewer people, your Rank swings less per win-loss. When you are in the middle of the pack, it swings a whole lot. Most of the middle rank for each character are people that have either never played that character, or only played a few matches, so the Rating distribution is very middle heavy.

So I’m pretty sure roster GSP is what is used to determine “who” you get matched against. I haven’t really paid attention to GSP won/lost. But I guess it was 10x harder going from really low 1mill to 2mill on my alt. And when I lose, I lose a boatload more GSP than I ever did on the initial grind to 3 mill. But I’m getting pitted against people who must have 3 mill roster,at least.

I’m at 1.3 mill on lucina getting put up against ppl who are 2.6 mill. It’s literally insane. And when they have low low low GSP, they are clearly good.

Here’s the kicker. On my alt lucina, even at 300,000 I never get put against non tourney rules. So that, plus the sheet technical skill of my enemies, and the fact that every other game I’m fighting ppl in the high 2 mills, means for sure, there is a roster or hidden component to the matchmaking.

I don't think that's entirely the case. There's some underlying MMR. There's an initial estimate for characters that you haven't played yet, but eventually it becomes its own MMR as you play with that character more.

As for the Lucina stuff, that's really not that strange. There's only like 3 or 4 wins to get through that central pack from 1.3M to 2.6M.

 

[Coolboy]

the strange thing i had yesterday is when i played Lucario, i had a small winning streak aka won 3 matches in a row, i started with 1,9 mill as him after i already played a few times with him. but after 3 matches he was literally 2,8 mill! o.o it usually does not get so high so fast....

 

[peekpeek]

the strange thing i had yesterday is when i played Lucario, i had a small winning streak aka won 3 matches in a row, i started with 1,9 mill as him after i already played a few times with him. but after 3 matches he was literally 2,8 mill! o.o it usually does not get so high so fast....

With the game being new, and there being 74 characters, the MMR/Rating distribution is center heavy. As long as you are in the middle range where characters sit by default, GSP/Rank swings are going to be massive. The range from ~500k to 2.8M goes by FAST, because that really is how many players you are swinging past with a regular-sized Elo gain.

 

[leafgreen386]

and there being 74 characters

I don't think GSP takes into account every player's every character. It's probably only ranking you against everyone's top character, and your non-top characters are just showing where they would be on the ladder. 3 million people total having gone online sounds about right, considering this game's sales numbers. If every character was being ranked online (including ones you haven't played yet), that would imply there are only about 40k players online total. It could be taking into account all characters that you've actually played as, but I still find that unlikely.

 

[peekpeek]

I don't think GSP takes into account every player's every character. It's probably only ranking you against everyone's top character, and your non-top characters are just showing where they would be on the ladder. 3 million people total having gone online sounds about right, considering this game's sales numbers. If every character was being ranked online (including ones you haven't played yet), that would imply there are only about 40k players online total. It could be taking into account all characters that you've actually played as, but I still find that unlikely.

No, there are 3.3M players, but most of the GSP ranks for most of the Character Ladders are still sitting around their default values. It doesn't matter if you've played 1 character or 72 characters, you have 74 different Ratings and 74 different Ranks (GSP). There is a 100th best Marth, and a 100th best Bowser (well, technically not because there's probably ridiculous bajillion way ties).

My basic perception of it is:

- All players have a hidden MMR for each character.
- MMR is what gets traded behind the scenes, like a traditional or modified Elo system.
- Your GSP (for that character) is the (reverse) rank of that MMR.
- Each character has an entirely different GSP list.
- For characters you haven't played, it uses some initial, hidden estimate based on the characters that you do play (probably weighted towards your best character?)
- As you play more games with a character, your MMR for that character becomes more unique and depends less on that initial estimate.

As far as I can tell, that explains pretty much all of the behavior of the GSP system.
- All Rating systems are center heavy.
- Ultimate is even more center heavy, due to how much Rank swings during that middle range.
- The difference in GSP in matchmaking during the center rating seems huge, because yes a single game in that range pushes you above or past a few hundred thousand people, most of which have never played that character.
- GSP swings a lot less per game when you are near the top or the bottom, because there's few players in that section of the Elo rating distribution, so you swing past few players with the average Elo gain/loss.

I'm curious how people are trying to picture what is going on behind the scenes. To me, it all looks a basic hidden Elo system, it shows your rank, and each player has a separate Rating and Rank for each character. I think it is very hard to make the numbers and concepts work without separate GSP and Ratings for each distinct character, but if people can present some good arguments I'm open to hearing it.

 

[leafgreen386]

- Each character has an entirely different GSP list.

This is the point we disagree on. Because the elite smash threshold appears to be the same for every character, it suggests this is a faulty assumption. If every character really did have a separate GSP list, then the GSP needed to get into elite would vary wildly from character to character, based on how often they're played online. The popular characters would require a significantly higher GSP than the less popular ones, even though the hidden rating would be the same. This is why I think it's only ranking you against everyone's top character.

 

[peekpeek]

This is the point we disagree on. Because the elite smash threshold appears to be the same for every character, it suggests this is a faulty assumption. If every character really did have a separate GSP list, then the GSP needed to get into elite would vary wildly from character to character, based on how often they're played online. The popular characters would require a significantly higher GSP than the less popular ones, even though the hidden rating would be the same. This is why I think it's only ranking you against everyone's top character.

No, I think your math is wrong there. If every player has a GSP for every character, than every character has a separate Top 100,000 players. The Top 3% of Daisy's 3.3M is the same cutoff as the top 3% of Chrom's 3.3M.

The weird part is that there is a separate RATING between them. Like, an Elite Chrom or other highly played character may have to be a higher (hidden) Rating to get into the Top 100,000 Chroms than the Rating that it takes to be in the Top 100,000 Toon Links. However, a Rating discrepancy like that actually explains why the GSP swings can feel so inconsistent even in Elite-- there is a larger Rating spread than you'd expect because the Rating threshold to be the Top 100,000 GSP is different per character, and the regular Elo Rating is what is getting traded between matches.

EDIT: This is hard to test, but it is probably easier to test on the low-end, with one player having the same very low GSP with several characters. Those people probably don't post on SmashBoards, though.

 

[leafgreen386]

No, I think your math is wrong there. If every player has a GSP for every character, than every character has a separate Top 100,000 players. The Top 3% of Daisy's 3.3M is the same cutoff as the top 3% of Chrom's 3.3M.

I see what you're saying now, but I can give you one very good reason why they don't do it that way: Roster GSP. I have played with exactly two characters in quickplay: Palutena and YL. Palu is in elite, and YL I gave up on so he's somewhere around 2 mil right now. Any of my unplayed characters start at 2.8 mil GSP. However, my roster GSP is 1.2 million. If it were counting unplayed characters in the rankings, roster GSP would be a lot higher.

 

[peekpeek]

I see what you're saying now, but I can give you one very good reason why they don't do it that way: Roster GSP. I have played with exactly two characters in quickplay: Palutena and YL. Palu is in elite, and YL I gave up on so he's somewhere around 2 mil right now. Any of my unplayed characters start at 2.8 mil GSP. However, my roster GSP is 1.2 million. If it were counting unplayed characters in the rankings, roster GSP would be a lot higher.

Roster GSP is a blackbox still. I don't know how that is calculated at all. Roster GSP definitely isn't the same as the initial MMR estimate, though.

I'm at about 3 Million with Bowser Jr., and playing "popular" characters that are hundreds of thousands of GSP lower than me. I'm pretty sure that is because Bowser Jr. is so hilariously unpopular that equal MMR translates to a higher BJr. rank than it does for Inklings and Chromes and K. Rools.

 

[leafgreen386]

Roster GSP is a blackbox still. I don't know how that is calculated at all. Roster GSP definitely isn't the same as the initial MMR estimate, though.

I'm at about 3 Million with Bowser Jr., and playing "popular" characters that are hundreds of thousands of GSP lower than me. I'm pretty sure that is because Bowser Jr. is so hilariously unpopular that equal MMR translates to a higher BJr. rank than it does for Inklings and Chromes and K. Rools.

My guess for roster GSP is that it sums your MMR with each character and uses that to calculate it. Characters that haven't been played don't have an officially recorded MMR yet, so they don't count toward it. Someone that doesn't play many characters will have a very low roster GSP, while someone that has played most of the cast at or near elite smash will be very very high.

 

[Telek]

My roster GSP is ~2.8M, my "haven't played" GSP is ~2.9M, I have 7 characters in elite, two in the low 2M, and two below 1M

 

[FartyParty]

Yes, I've definitely noticed that losing GSP is much easier than gaining it, but I've also noticed the amount gained/lost seems to vary based on going on streaks of wins/losses as opposed to alternating 1-2 wins/losses at a time. If you lose, say, 6 out of 10 matches, how much your GSP changes from where you start seems partially dependent on whether you won 4 in a row and lost 6 in a row or more alternated like LLWLWWLLWL or possibly alternated streaks of wins and losses like LLLWWWWLLL.

It is an incredibly frustrating and flawed ranking system. Hit a high of 2.7 mil on my main Lucina before settling back in at 1.5-2 mil for a few days until tonight where I had a really bad run of matches that dropped me from ~1.9 mil all the way down to 162K. I won most of my games the rest of the night, but my GSP didn't recover to even 1 mil again until I went on 5 match win streak. I called it a night after that.

 

[Mischiiii]

I don’t encounter this problem in matchmaking. Im Link at around 2,8-3,1 GSP. I get around 50.000 per win and lose 100.000 per loss which seems alright. Guess not everyone is affected by this. Also i think the Gap between you and your opponent does matter hugely.

 

[Scottfrankd]

I don’t encounter this problem in matchmaking. Im Link at around 2,8-3,1 GSP. I get around 50.000 per win and lose 100.000 per loss which seems alright. Guess not everyone is affected by this. Also i think the Gap between you and your opponent does matter hugely.

It seems inconsistent to me. I've had much bigger losses than that and much smaller wins than that - as well as random boosts. I wouldn't mind as much if laggy connections weren't punished as much

 

[FartyParty]

No, there are 3.3M players, but most of the GSP ranks for most of the Character Ladders are still sitting around their default values. It doesn't matter if you've played 1 character or 72 characters, you have 74 different Ratings and 74 different Ranks (GSP). There is a 100th best Marth, and a 100th best Bowser (well, technically not because there's probably ridiculous bajillion way ties).

My basic perception of it is:

- All players have a hidden MMR for each character.
- MMR is what gets traded behind the scenes, like a traditional or modified Elo system.
- Your GSP (for that character) is the (reverse) rank of that MMR.
- Each character has an entirely different GSP list.
- For characters you haven't played, it uses some initial, hidden estimate based on the characters that you do play (probably weighted towards your best character?)
- As you play more games with a character, your MMR for that character becomes more unique and depends less on that initial estimate.

As far as I can tell, that explains pretty much all of the behavior of the GSP system.
- All Rating systems are center heavy.
- Ultimate is even more center heavy, due to how much Rank swings during that middle range.
- The difference in GSP in matchmaking during the center rating seems huge, because yes a single game in that range pushes you above or past a few hundred thousand people, most of which have never played that character.
- GSP swings a lot less per game when you are near the top or the bottom, because there's few players in that section of the Elo rating distribution, so you swing past few players with the average Elo gain/loss.

I'm curious how people are trying to picture what is going on behind the scenes. To me, it all looks a basic hidden Elo system, it shows your rank, and each player has a separate Rating and Rank for each character. I think it is very hard to make the numbers and concepts work without separate GSP and Ratings for each distinct character, but if people can present some good arguments I'm open to hearing it.

What does MMR stand for?

 

[peekpeek]

What does MMR stand for?

Match Making Rating, basically the value behind the scenes that determines who to match you up against. The MMR is what gets adjusted based on who you win and lose against, and GSP/Rank is just a visual side effect of that.

 

[Ultimate Falcon]

I was in elite for a while and had 3.15 million gsp. I had a rough stretch and lost 4 out of 9 matches then dropped to 2.7 million gsp. I win 11 in a row and didnt even get back to 3 million. I lose once after a decent win streak and drop another 40k which sets me back even further. I notice that other people i play around the same gsp dont lose nearly as much after i beat them.

Can you not lose any matches at all now? Or do i have to win 20 in a row for gsp to really start climbing again? Is it harder to get back to elite if you were there for a while? Im beating people with much higher gsp than me and i notice im still not gaining much and they only lose a little. I beat a significanly higher gsp 3 times in a row (they kept rematching probably thinking i was getting lucky because they were so much higher gsp) and saw that they only lost a few thousand and not tens of thousands like what happened to me.

Anyone have any insight? I figure i just have to grind it out with a 95% win rate now. A friend was also saying that they think if more people report you for whatever reason it negatively impacts the way you gain and lose gsp. I'll get people that sometimes give up and sd out of frustration.

On a side note im enjoying the online immensely and will get matched w my tourney rules 99% of the time

Im the best Falcon player to ever lay hands on a gamecude controller. I dare any one of you pansies to prove me otherwise.

 

[Ev3ntHoriz0n]

No, I think your math is wrong there. If every player has a GSP for every character, than every character has a separate Top 100,000 players. The Top 3% of Daisy's 3.3M is the same cutoff as the top 3% of Chrom's 3.3M.

The weird part is that there is a separate RATING between them. Like, an Elite Chrom or other highly played character may have to be a higher (hidden) Rating to get into the Top 100,000 Chroms than the Rating that it takes to be in the Top 100,000 Toon Links. However, a Rating discrepancy like that actually explains why the GSP swings can feel so inconsistent even in Elite-- there is a larger Rating spread than you'd expect because the Rating threshold to be the Top 100,000 GSP is different per character, and the regular Elo Rating is what is getting traded between matches.

EDIT: This is hard to test, but it is probably easier to test on the low-end, with one player having the same very low GSP with several characters. Those people probably don't post on SmashBoards, though.

I think I might unintenionally be the tester you wished for. This is my story:

First off I'd like to say I am not a very good player by any means, I haven't touched smash since melee and just now picked up ultimate. I knew my buttons well enough in melee, so I am not the most hopeless scrub, but that's where it ends. I started my online career with around eight games of Link, the char I used to play back in the day, and got ranked at about 1.3 million gsp after a few pretty close matches. I did not really dig the new Link though, so I messed around a bit with bots and decided to give Mewtu a go, which I liked but had never really played before. Naturally, I got destroyed in all my "placement" matches, losing 10-12 games in a row until I hit rock bottom at around 70k (!).

That's where the weirdness started:
First I got matched against some total newbies that barely knew how to play the game, to the point where one of them clearly didn't know that you could use up b to get back on stage. After beating those, I still sat below 80k, so not much of a gain. I then got an inkling at about 400k, which I still beat comfortably. That win got me a whopping 2.5k gsp. Beat him twice again with about the same result each time. I continued to play against people between 500k and 900k and mostly winning, but not always. At some point in that time I think I cracked 120k GSP. This all already seems really weird because you would think winning vs. people with 10 times your GSP would count for more.

But now to the crazy part:
At 110k GSP, I got matched against a Cloud who beat be narrowly. After the game It showed his GSP to be at 1.5 million. That single loss cost me more than the last three before combined, bringing me back to 80k while he rose to about 1.6 million. When we rematched, I actually beat him and was eager to see the mad gains that I would surely have earned by beating this opponent way out of my league. Where did it get me? To 95k. Gained not even half of what I lost by losing against the very same guy.

I don't care about the GSP number and the system keeps putting be in close games which I actually enjoy, so I can't really complain. It does what its supposed to. The numbers game though is utterly broken beyond the point that anyone could explain with hidden MMR or winstreaks or similar shenanigans. No amount of winning can keep me from being set right down to 75k after two losses.

In case you aren't convinced, an expamle that just happened today:
Played a Ness of 400k, me being at 80k. We went on for a lot of matches, maybe 10 or so in total. I am not ashamed to admit that he was better than me, of the 10 games I only managed to take 3 or 4. He left our exchange at 1.05 million GSP, I dropped down to 75k again. The fact that he could gain this much by beating on a 80k scrub repeatedly confuses me to no end. When I beat someone at his GSP five times, I barely move my score at all. Strange world.

TL,DR:

- Ranked about 1.3 million with my very first char
- Got ranked at 70k with a new char by losing 10 times in a row
- Can now beat people anywhere between 100k and 1.5 million without gaining more than 20k
- Will drop back down to 70k with 2 losses no matter where I started
- People winning against me will often gain 100k per game, more than my total net worth

But:
Matchmaking seems to work fine, I get nice games that I enjoy. You just have to accept that your GSP says about as much about your smash skills as your phone number does.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I'm going to be honest, I really don't like the GSP system in this game and I would've preferred some other type of ranking system. This is because, for a lot of people including myself, we can't help but stay focused on improving our GSP instead of actually improving at the game. The system promotes poor strategy, spammy moves, and playing it very safe because no matter how you play, you will always look better if your GSP is high. For example, you can be terrible at the game but if you spam enough and play it super safe, you will undoubtedly begin to rise through the ranks and I don't think that's how competitive Smash should work. A ranking system in a Smash game should promote skill and precise strategy.

Then there's that end-goal in everyone's mind: Elite Smash. Today I reached it, and was instantly kicked out of it after losing a single match. In my opinion, that's complete bs. If I'm apparently skilled enough to get into Elite Smash, I should be able to stay there because I earned it. My skill level didn't drastically drop after losing a single match. It all goes back to GSP.

Like I said, it's a poor ranking system that promotes people to indulge in their worst habits instead of trying to improve on their best ones. If you get your GSP to around 3,000,000, and you beat someone, odds are your opponent will quit instead of trying to strategize how they can beat you in order to ensure their GSP remains intact. After reaching Elite Smash, I think I'm just done with Quick Mode and I'm gonna be doing Battle Arenas a lot more often. Because at least there, you don't get punished for being bad (GSP goes down which in turn makes you look bad) and you aren't trying to play it safe either because, well, there's no GSP to worry about! I feel like people who constantly play Quick Play will one day just stop improving and will be stuck in a perpetual cycle of using bad strategies, or, will just rage quit due to GSP going down.

 

[MG_3989]

I wouldn’t put too much stock into GSP, it’s a very flawed ranking system and while generally the best players have the highest GSP there are some very good players I’ve played who are sitting around 1.5mil or less. I don’t automatically think somebody is good because they’ve reached elite smash or not good because they haven’t. GSP actually inhibits growth by having no incentive to rematch people that are better than you or around equal skill level. Almost nobody rematches when they lose or even after a close win

A good Battle Arena will help you improve wayyyyy more than quickplay. Quickplay is good for learning a lot of matchups and that’s about it. Losing and adapting is part of improving (and losing a lot to better players) and GSP inhibits people from doing that

I’ve been thinking and it might be a better system if you only gained GSP and never lost it and had another algorithm for matchmaking that players can’t see. Also it would be nice if you couldn’t see another players GSP

 

[Crystanium]

I'm going to be honest, I really don't like the GSP system in this game and I would've preferred some other type of ranking system.

You wouldn't be the first.

This is because, for a lot of people including myself, we can't help but stay focused on improving our GSP instead of actually improving at the game.

So, what's the difference between GSP and some ranked system besides the fact that a higher number is better than a lower number?

The system promotes poor strategy, spammy moves, and playing it very safe because no matter how you play, you will always look better if your GSP is high.

Again, what would be different about a ranked system? And how does looking at your GSP in hopes that it's high promote poor strategies, spammed moves, and playing it safe? You assert this, but you don't make any connection.

For example, you can be terrible at the game but if you spam enough and play it super safe, you will undoubtedly begin to rise through the ranks and I don't think that's how competitive Smash should work. A ranking system in a Smash game should promote skill and precise strategy.

And what if spamming certain moves and playing "super safe" is a skill or strategy? Technically, it would be a strategy. Besides, you're assuming this is true for everyone playing Quickplay.

Then there's that end-goal in everyone's mind: Elite Smash.

Let's change that to, "Then there's that end-goal in everyone's mind: being number one." Why is that a problem?

Today I reached it, and was instantly kicked out of it after losing a single match. In my opinion, that's complete bs. If I'm apparently skilled enough to get into Elite Smash, I should be able to stay there because I earned it. My skill level didn't drastically drop after losing a single match. It all goes back to GSP.

Well, then apparently there are better players who deserve to be in Elite Smash while you grow complacent because you've reached your goal. Sure, your skill level didn't "drastically drop", and perhaps it didn't drop at all. Perhaps you fought someone who had better strategies than you did, and as a result, you were kicked out. If you're confident in your skill, then entering Elite Smash shouldn't be a problem.

Like I said, it's a poor ranking system that promotes people to indulge in their worst habits instead of trying to improve on their best ones.

This is an assertion. You don't have any empirical evidence, nor do you have epistemic access to the minds of others.

If you get your GSP to around 3,000,000, and you beat someone, odds are your opponent will quit instead of trying to strategize how they can beat you in order to ensure their GSP remains intact.

Then that's on them.

After reaching Elite Smash, I think I'm just done with Quick Mode and I'm gonna be doing Battle Arenas a lot more often. Because at least there, you don't get punished for being bad (GSP goes down which in turn makes you look bad) and you aren't trying to play it safe either because, well, there's no GSP to worry about! I feel like people who constantly play Quick Play will one day just stop improving and will be stuck in a perpetual cycle of using bad strategies, or, will just rage quit due to GSP going down.

Then let them. And go ahead and play Battle Arenas. I can assert that I think there are people who think the ranking system is poor and severely flawed because their GSP is lackluster. So they'll settle for not looking at their GSP or deal with it because they're not confident in themselves. If Elite Smash isn't your thing, fine.

 

[Dilan Omer]

Who the **** cares. All I would say is that you shouldnt be complaining about not being in ES. Its not meant for everyone
If you are better than them then just beat them jeez.

Anyhow what really grinds my gears is that you cant just choose to play randomly online with GSP not on the line.

I am not even scared of losing but the lower GSP you go the more often I have to fight laggy cancer and rulesets that differ from mine.Just bring back FG
and make a mode where u can go ranked or not. Its not so ****ing hard Nintendo.

Also gaining and losing points is so ******** lmao. Just make a real ranked system. Why do I gain like 500 points in ES mode and lose like 1 billion points if I lose with a new character once.

 

[Arrei]

GSP has its flaws, but being worried about maintaining your rank is not one of them. That's going to be inherent of any ranking system. That's like saying a player who takes the grand prize at the biggest tournament once is going to just stop playing and stop going to tournaments, because if he never loses again he'll always be number one.

I just wish casual modes didn't factor in your GSP. I want to be able to turn on items and hazards and jump into Quickplay without worrying about dragging in some unlucky fellow who just wanted Fox only Final Destination.

 

[Crystanium]

One perk about Nintendo is the lack of decay. If you're not playing, your GSP won't drop. Look at Overwatch's ranked system. It looks similar.

 

[MG_3989]

One perk about Nintendo is the lack of decay. If you're not playing, your GSP won't drop. Look at Overwatch's ranked system. It looks similar.

I’ve definitely got similar problems with OW’s ranking system especially on solo queue

 

[Klimax]

If you wanna improve, don't play the online, because it's basically garbage.

It's just full of braindead ******* who are playing campy and spam projectiles. The more GSP they have, the more projectiles they use. The game is just not fun with these morons because you have to adapt to their style. And since they all have the same play style, you don't improve at all. You just frustration because you play long games against a bunch of idiots.

Do I also have to talk about the people who play while their connection is garbage ? Do I also have to talk about the fact that sometimes, you just play with matches with rules that you don't want ?

Elite Smash is just a glorified quickplay full of people who are toxic af. So you have the choice, playing against people with low GSP and take no fun in destroying them or playing against people with high GSP in Elite Smash and have no fun because they all play the same.

I'm just not interested in playing online anymore. I only met ONE good player in many hours, yeah just ONE guy that made me say "yeah, that guy's good". That was a Ken player and he was really impressive, i've never seen a better Ken. The rest was just garbage.

Trust me, if you want to improve, just play arena seriously with some of your friends. Most of my friends did the same, they stopped playing online and are just focusing on arena.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Not to be "that guy", but those of you complaining about projectile-spamming would hate to face my Mega Man (and by extension Zelda, who can play a bit of close-combat and keep-away). Zoning only really becomes an issue in lag, because input delays can mess up every counter maneuver you have at play. I'd like to hear an elaboration on what you deem "spammy" though. I get the frustration of something that's easily abusable and very rewarding with very low risk, but if you attribute that complaint to everything that's meant to keep you at a distance, wew boy, Justin Wong would be having the guffaws.

By my own judgment, GSP is very w/e to me. I consider myself a trash player by competitive standards. I lack the grit, the near-perfect reaction times, and the consistency to read and act. Personally, capturing a true ranking system is almost impossible because of many underlying factors. Sure, you can set up situations that help you adapt to laggy connections, but what then? Your opponent lags (no pun intended) behind and they're not playing the game at the speed it's meant to be played in. There are too many disadvantageous scenarios online that make match-making ultimately (again, no pun intended) pointless. This includes Battle Arena, which while definitely more consistent also has its flaws.

 

[Klimax]

Not to be "that guy", but those of you complaining about projectile-spamming would hate to face my Mega Man (and by extension Zelda, who can play a bit of close-combat and keep-away). Zoning only really becomes an issue in lag, because input delays can mess up every counter maneuver you have at play. I'd like to hear an elaboration on what you deem "spammy" though. I get the frustration of something that's easily abusable and very rewarding with very low risk, but if you attribute that complaint to everything that's meant to keep you at a distance, wew boy, Justin Wong would be having the guffaws.

To be exact, my problem is not characters who use projectiles. I just have a problem with morons spamming them + running away endlessly to the other side of the stage (that part is the real cancer). That's what makes me say "is this **** going anywhere ?". I mean, **** off, why a 3 stocks battle would last 6 minutes ? Play the damn game already. I just feel like most of the time, I'm playing against bots who are doing the same things over and over. And you don't improve at all because as soon you catch them, they don't even know how ****ing defend themselves.

And people can be cancer with every kind of characters, it's just that it's even more annoying with characters with projectiles. But the problem is not about the characters but the people who are just cancer.

 

[Arrei]

One perk about Nintendo is the lack of decay. If you're not playing, your GSP won't drop. Look at Overwatch's ranked system. It looks similar.

Hmm, the oddest thing about that. I haven't touched my Pikachu since he got into Elite, and at some point I saw he'd fallen out of Elite. After the 2.0 patch hit with its nebulous "ranking adjustments", he was Elite again.

 

[Crystanium]

Hmm, the oddest thing about that. I haven't touched my Pikachu since he got into Elite, and at some point I saw he'd fallen out of Elite. After the 2.0 patch hit with its nebulous "ranking adjustments", he was Elite again.

Strange, especially since one's GSP goes up every day.