Let's Talk GSP and Improving

Klimax

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
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526
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Austria
#41
This is what I do also now.
I only go into Quickplay/ES to warm up and get up to speed before I go to the Battle Arenas.
That's so much better. People are playing better and since there's not a rank or something like this in arena, they don't play like idiots, so it's really good to improve !
I dropped ES and I don't regret it at all !
 

Downshift

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
304
#42
There are also ways to search for Public Arenas where you can choose higher levels of players to go up against. There's not really anything stopping a noob from stumbling into a "Glorious Smashers" instead of "All Skill Levels" Arena, but once the Arena host realizes they're a scrub, or have a laggy connection or whatever, they can kick them.
Some people might not like that you have to watch 4 matches before you get to play once if there's a full room, but it's worth it to be able to swap characters but play the same people again, and also to see how other decent players and their techniques, adapt to them while they're also watching you and adapting to you.
 

Xquirtle

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
172
Location
Columbus, Ohio
#43
The thing is people are just too focused on their GSP. When I’m playing online, I am never worried about losing GSP for the most part. You yourself have to be the person who wants to improve and isn’t focused on the GSP. You want to improve but at the same time you hate losing your GSP you said it yourself.

Just play. The important thing is to play and play and play. If you want to improve that’s how you do it. Using some arbitrary number in a ranking system with no leaderboard, to gauge your personal ability makes no sense. It just gives you a false sense of self accomplishment. The only benefit of being in Elite Smash is playing better players. You’ll still fight ES level players even at 3.4-3.5 Mil currently. Arenas are going to be a better choice than quickplay for improving anyways in my own opinion.
Low GSP does seem to have a higher likelihood of something totally asinine popping up like insufferable lag or stupid rules. I've said in other posts that I don't see a big difference, but I think there is at least some slight correlation there. If that were the case, then maybe GSP matters for getting 3 stock battlefield (everything else is degenerate) more reliably. I'd also theorize that worse players are more likely to have incredibly annoying and degenerate play styles where the only fun to be had is at the match victory screen. To that end, players that want "serious" practice might want to avoid a low GSP sink hole.

Regardless, I do agree that its generally a bad thing to look at. Like if we just forget about GSP, not caring about ranking in any online game is generally a productive mind set in the long run.
 

2 C H i L L E D

Eternal Hitstun
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#44
Low GSP does seem to have a higher likelihood of something totally asinine popping up like insufferable lag or stupid rules. I've said in other posts that I don't see a big difference, but I think there is at least some slight correlation there. If that were the case, then maybe GSP matters for getting 3 stock battlefield (everything else is degenerate) more reliably. I'd also theorize that worse players are more likely to have incredibly annoying and degenerate play styles where the only fun to be had is at the match victory screen. To that end, players that want "serious" practice might want to avoid a low GSP sink hole.

Regardless, I do agree that its generally a bad thing to look at. Like if we just forget about GSP, not caring about ranking in any online game is generally a productive mind set in the long run.
I agree, that’s literally the only reason I put “for the most part” when speaking on losing GSP. When it’s too low it becomes a bad thing but honestly if you’re at least 3 Mil everything should be pretty smooth.
 

SoupA113

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Messages
1
#45
As a long-time Smash Bros. fan, I'm pretty decent at the game. I'm not great, but I' good to where I beat my siblings, and I put up a fight for my friends who are significantly better (think elite smash). I love Ultimate just as much as the next guy, maybe even more, but I am really having trouble improving at the game. I have found that that is in part by GSP, as I'll play at starting GSP, and win once or twice, depending on the situation. But then I lose to one person and it brings me down to the 500,000's. It's really dumb, and now instead of working on my skill against players my level, I go up, get clapped by someone far superior than me, and then grind to get back up to starting point. It's a flawed system that stunts my growth. Instead of thinking about how I can improve and what I should do in situations, my mind is on how many Item-Using players I'll have to grind through. And Wolf. SO MUCH WOLF on low GSP. Not only that, but Low GSP is kind of a joke on platforms like YouTube. "Low GSP is a scary place", I hear a lot on YouTube. And I can confirm that. Its filled with players who aren't skilled at the game, and that's ok. But being the type of person who doesn't trust their own opinion, and needs verification elsewhere, seeing the number that represents "my skill level" hurts and discourages me to get better. I can't get better, and when I do I get shot down. In conclusion, I need help finding ways to get better, and GSP is my least favorite part of Smash Ultimate. I understand where Sakurai was coming from, and I see the intent, I just believe it's a flawed system.
What does Smash Boards have to say?
 
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Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
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#46
As a long-time Smash Bros. fan, I'm pretty decent at the game. I'm not great, but I' good to where I beat my siblings, and I put up a fight for my friends who are significantly better (think elite smash). I love Ultimate just as much as the next guy, maybe even more, but I am really having trouble improving at the game. I have found that that is in part by GSP, as I'll play at starting GSP, and win once or twice, depending on the situation. But then I lose to one person and it brings me down to the 500,000's. It's really dumb, and now instead of working on my skill against players my level, I go up, get clapped by someone far superior than me, and then grind to get back up to starting point. It's a flawed system that stunts my growth. Instead of thinking about how I can improve and what I should do in situations, my mind is on how many Item-Using players I'll have to grind through. And Wolf. SO MUCH WOLF on low GSP. Not only that, but Low GSP is kind of a joke on platforms like YouTube. "Low GSP is a scary place", I hear a lot on YouTube. And I can confirm that. Its filled with players who aren't skilled at the game, and that's ok. But being the type of person who doesn't trust their own opinion, and needs verification elsewhere, seeing the number that represents "my skill level" hurts and discourages me to get better. I can't get better, and when I do I get shot down. In conclusion, I need help finding ways to get better, and GSP is my least favorite part of Smash Ultimate. I understand where Sakurai was coming from, and I see the intent, I just believe it's a flawed system.
What does Smash Boards have to say?
If someone unironically tells you they think GSP is a great ranking system, they're a psychopath. Cut them off and get out of town before they murder you in your sleep.

Anyway, your first few matches with a new character have a greater effect on your GSP - I've gotten characters to Elite within only 3-4 wins. At the same time, I've dropped well below a million just with a few consecutive losses on a character I've never played. There's also a greater change based on whether you beat someone with a much higher GSP than you, or you lose to someone with a much lower GSP than you. It's not a difficult system to exploit, either. Look around this forum and you'll see plenty of posts detailing their experiences with ridiculous matches online like running into 1 stock stamina matches and whatnot.
 

SuperDoom1

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#47
I'm a guy who plays Smash for fun.
I always do one-stock 1v1s with most items on using whatever stage I want.

On Valentine's Day, my parents bought me and my little sister Emma an NSO subscription for a year. After a few matches of Tetris Fortnite 99, I decided to play some Ultimate online. I mean, I was pretty good at the game -- I always went up against Lv. 9 CPUs and only lost about three eighths of the time.

However, there was one glaring flaw.

One gigantic flaw that puts the rest of my SSBU time where I thought I was decent at the game into perspective.




My strategy is to spam smash attacks.
I don't know when this habit formed -- I used to get a few sweet kills in Smash 4 when I mained Mr. Game & Watch like this one time where I won a match against an Ike on Balloon Fight Omega in For Glory 1v1 where he kept dodge-rolling and I kept using Judge and when I finally decided to stop turning around because of how predictable the Ike (or maybe it was Falco) player was, my Judge hit a 9, but I think the habit formed in Multi-Man Smash.

Years ago, when I still mained Mr. G&W in both Brawl and Smash 4, I tried to get the world record in Endless Brawl. I used a Wiimote and Nunchuk (my only options), and started shaking them like there was no tomorrow. I think my record is around 135.
It was hard to go back. I still can't.
And human players know how to counter my strategy.



This is why I will never get into Elite Smash.
 

Whit

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
418
Location
right behind you
#48
I'm a guy who plays Smash for fun.
I always do one-stock 1v1s with most items on using whatever stage I want.

On Valentine's Day, my parents bought me and my little sister Emma an NSO subscription for a year. After a few matches of Tetris Fortnite 99, I decided to play some Ultimate online. I mean, I was pretty good at the game -- I always went up against Lv. 9 CPUs and only lost about three eighths of the time.

However, there was one glaring flaw.

One gigantic flaw that puts the rest of my SSBU time where I thought I was decent at the game into perspective.




My strategy is to spam smash attacks.
I don't know when this habit formed -- I used to get a few sweet kills in Smash 4 when I mained Mr. Game & Watch like this one time where I won a match against an Ike on Balloon Fight Omega in For Glory 1v1 where he kept dodge-rolling and I kept using Judge and when I finally decided to stop turning around because of how predictable the Ike (or maybe it was Falco) player was, my Judge hit a 9, but I think the habit formed in Multi-Man Smash.

Years ago, when I still mained Mr. G&W in both Brawl and Smash 4, I tried to get the world record in Endless Brawl. I used a Wiimote and Nunchuk (my only options), and started shaking them like there was no tomorrow. I think my record is around 135.
It was hard to go back. I still can't.
And human players know how to counter my strategy.



This is why I will never get into Elite Smash.
Oh my... j-just spamming smash attacks? That is... well I guess that's one way to play alright. If you're just playing for fun and its fun doing that, then keep right on smashing. That's the whole point of the game anyways, to have fun. I do have to agree though, that strategy is not going to get you to Elite Smash any time soon. Assuming you want to get better, it goes without saying that you need to use other moves. Watch videos, play against real people, not CPUs. CPUs are good to practice combos, techniques, etc, but they don't play like people and you can't gain proper experience fighting just them. Ignore the GSP and just practice with other people to get better, not to win. Sorry for the unprompted advice. Disregard me if you're just venting and just want to have fun smashing.
 

Coolboy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
189
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Netherlands
#49
i wonder how my GSP for my main characters look like now lol i haven't played for a month now..pfffft soooo many hobbies.... but yeah i wonder if they are the same/higher, i really would lmao if randomly 1 of them got into ES for literally not playing xD
 

DCavalier

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#50
If someone unironically tells you they think GSP is a great ranking system, they're a psychopath. Cut them off and get out of town before they murder you in your sleep.

Anyway, your first few matches with a new character have a greater effect on your GSP - I've gotten characters to Elite within only 3-4 wins. At the same time, I've dropped well below a million just with a few consecutive losses on a character I've never played. There's also a greater change based on whether you beat someone with a much higher GSP than you, or you lose to someone with a much lower GSP than you. It's not a difficult system to exploit, either. Look around this forum and you'll see plenty of posts detailing their experiences with ridiculous matches online like running into 1 stock stamina matches and whatnot.
I thought 1 stock 4 min matches were an urban legend.
Oh boy was I wrong, the lamest part of it is that the opponent had a really high GSP like 3.78 million, so it must be a thing that actually works if somehow it managed to reach that level of GSP.
 

Sean²

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Joined
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Messages
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#51
I thought 1 stock 4 min matches were an urban legend.
Oh boy was I wrong, the lamest part of it is that the opponent had a really high GSP like 3.78 million, so it must be a thing that actually works if somehow it managed to reach that level of GSP.
I played a 1v1 match with 1 stock 3 minute 100HP stamina on Venom a few days ago. I almost had it over with, but Pokeballs were everywhere, and his Abra teleported me under the stage. I couldn’t recover.

Best part was this guy was well above 3.9 million in Elite. I actually think I was playing against Satan himself.
 

DCavalier

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#52
I played a 1v1 match with 1 stock 3 minute 100HP stamina on Venom a few days ago. I almost had it over with, but Pokeballs were everywhere, and his Abra teleported me under the stage. I couldn’t recover.

Best part was this guy was well above 3.9 million in Elite. I actually think I was playing against Satan himself.
Maybe but only if it was playing a swordie, rat or crowned princess.
But damn, I mean, I know you should always play to win but winning that way just doesn't sit well with me because you are removing the competitive aspect.
And it can be really boring to try and catch an opponent that is stalling on purpose because of the ruleset and that is without items mind you.

I think we should only think of ELITE Smash as a way to filter the decent players from the bad ones and not really has a Realistic Ranking system for now.
The idea they have is great but the fact that Casual and Competitive affect the same Ranking means it won't be based on skill entirely and that sucks.

The easiest way to fix this IMO is:
- To separate Casual from Competitive ala For Glory and For Fun
- Have the same ranking system but have it only be affected by the For Glory matches.
- Define a Tournament Legal ruleset and have it be the default ex ( 3 Stocks, 7 Min, BattleFields and Omega Versions )

As an addition to the last point, they could make an special option for the stages as in, define the specific versions of each stage that are accepted as Tournament Legal, that way we won't be stuck with BF and FD and could have a way to add Lylat, Town and City, the PK Stadiums and Castle Siege.

If they did this, I think I could accept GSP for what they wanted it to be "The most skilled players".
As of now it is "The most 'skilled' players that got there by whatever means necessary or by a lucky Starman or Bob-omb".

I don't deny that great players are in Elite Smash but seeing this stuff like items, 1 stock or stamina matches really take away from the main selling point of trying to get to Elite Smash.

Rant over ??
 
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Predatoria

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
189
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Raleigh, North Carolina
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#53
I'm a guy who plays Smash for fun.
I always do one-stock 1v1s with most items on using whatever stage I want.

On Valentine's Day, my parents bought me and my little sister Emma an NSO subscription for a year. After a few matches of Tetris Fortnite 99, I decided to play some Ultimate online. I mean, I was pretty good at the game -- I always went up against Lv. 9 CPUs and only lost about three eighths of the time.

However, there was one glaring flaw.

One gigantic flaw that puts the rest of my SSBU time where I thought I was decent at the game into perspective.




My strategy is to spam smash attacks.
I don't know when this habit formed -- I used to get a few sweet kills in Smash 4 when I mained Mr. Game & Watch like this one time where I won a match against an Ike on Balloon Fight Omega in For Glory 1v1 where he kept dodge-rolling and I kept using Judge and when I finally decided to stop turning around because of how predictable the Ike (or maybe it was Falco) player was, my Judge hit a 9, but I think the habit formed in Multi-Man Smash.

Years ago, when I still mained Mr. G&W in both Brawl and Smash 4, I tried to get the world record in Endless Brawl. I used a Wiimote and Nunchuk (my only options), and started shaking them like there was no tomorrow. I think my record is around 135.
It was hard to go back. I still can't.
And human players know how to counter my strategy.



This is why I will never get into Elite Smash.
Even at level 9, computers seem to have no concept of avoiding your attacks. They'll waltz right into a ganondorf warlock punch, regardless of level. Players feel a lot different. In some ways, I actually find level 9 computers harder than players because they're so chaotic and random, whereas players start moving in predictable patterns and respond to your moves. You can trick a player with mind games with moves like "Alright, he's roll dodging every single time I do this move, so if I do this, I can hit him with this attack." A computer just feels like so rng'ish in their movements to me, and I don't really find fighting them to be valuable as a source of practice.

I do wish that ranked mode would, at the very least, let you choose from a few pre-defined rulesets and separate the playerbase based on choices. It feels frustrating to queue into a laggy player on the moving pac man stage with items and stage hazards on (yes, this did happen to me and it was insuffrable. I just SD'd on purpose and took the loss).

That being said, I usually don't personally find many of my matches to have bad rulesets. The most common deviant set I see (I choose max time, 3 stock, no items, omega stages) is a 2 stock variant of my ruleset, which really isn't that big of a deal. You just gotta be careful you pick up on your opponent quickly and don't shrug off losing your first stock expecting to come back late match.

I occasionally run into irritating sets, but it's infrequent enough for me that I'll usually just SD and decline a rematch. It's not worth the frustration to me to bother.

I've never encountered a stamina match.

I rematch players no matter what, unless I'm just being farmed into the dirt by someone I just cannot beat (or if they're laggy or have annoying rules). My longest loss streak was 12 in a row against a Shulk as Ridley until I finally gave in. I try to ignore the GSP rating and just try to fight people who are beating me. I'll save my losses and rewatch them sometimes to figure out why I'm losing. In the case with Shulk, he was punishing me off every one of my jabs that he shielded, and it was losing me the matches. I had to rewatch it to realize this is why I was doing poorly against him. That, and I was also trying to force bairs on him instead of choosing the best option of attack for his play. Learning this was worth going on a loss streak one night and tanking my GSP, rather than being afraid to tank and avoiding someone who beat me.

If you want to improve, do not be afraid of losing. Losing is more valuable to you than winning. Winning is fun, and winning is an ego stroke, but losing is your best chance to learn if you can take it maturely instead of getting salty and raging.

I'm not in Elite, but am hoping to get there one glorious day.
 
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DCavalier

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#54
Even at level 9, computers seem to have no concept of avoiding your attacks. They'll waltz right into a ganondorf warlock punch, regardless of level. Players feel a lot different. In some ways, I actually find level 9 computers harder than players because they're so chaotic and random, whereas players start moving in predictable patterns and respond to your moves. You can trick a player with mind games with moves like "Alright, he's roll dodging every single time I do this move, so if I do this, I can hit him with this attack." A computer just feels like so rng'ish in their movements to me, and I don't really find fighting them to be valuable as a source of practice.

I do wish that ranked mode would, at the very least, let you choose from a few pre-defined rulesets and separate the playerbase based on choices. It feels frustrating to queue into a laggy player on the moving pac man stage with items and stage hazards on (yes, this did happen to me and it was insuffrable. I just SD'd on purpose and took the loss).

That being said, I usually don't personally find many of my matches to have bad rulesets. The most common deviant set I see (I choose max time, 3 stock, no items, omega stages) is a 2 stock variant of my ruleset, which really isn't that big of a deal. You just gotta be careful you pick up on your opponent quickly and don't shrug off losing your first stock expecting to come back late match.

I occasionally run into irritating sets, but it's infrequent enough for me that I'll usually just SD and decline a rematch. It's not worth the frustration to me to bother.

I've never encountered a stamina match.

I rematch players no matter what, unless I'm just being farmed into the dirt by someone I just cannot beat (or if they're laggy or have annoying rules). My longest loss streak was 12 in a row against a Shulk as Ridley until I finally gave in. I try to ignore the GSP rating and just try to fight people who are beating me. I'll save my losses and rewatch them sometimes to figure out why I'm losing. In the case with Shulk, he was punishing me off every one of my jabs that he shielded, and it was losing me the matches. I had to rewatch it to realize this is why I was doing poorly against him. That, and I was also trying to force bairs on him instead of choosing the best option of attack for his play. Learning this was worth going on a loss streak one night and tanking my GSP, rather than being afraid to tank and avoiding someone who beat me.

If you want to improve, do not be afraid of losing. Losing is more valuable to you than winning. Winning is fun, and winning is an ego stroke, but losing is your best chance to learn if you can take it maturely instead of getting salty and raging.

I'm not in Elite, but am hoping to get there one glorious day.
That is the right mentality to have and depending on your skill level at this point it shouldn't take long to actually get into ELITE.
Because you already know what you have to do to improve and that's is something people have a hard time finding.

Regardless of skill levels I always try to at least have a Best of 5 to get/give a chance to learn from the opponent.

And if the opponent is really fun to play against say 50/50 win/loss against him/her then i could go on for hours, I think the most matches I have played against a single opponent were close to 15.
 

Senrai

Smash Rookie
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#55
I've started to play Mr. Game & Watch trying to learn how to play him. And for late comp use.
Started around 3,3 mil gsp and won some and lost some matches (20-30 matches) staying around 2,9 mil
i Just lost a match against Palutena and went my gsp went form 2,9 mil to 2,5 mil in one match.
I took a rematch and lost again making me go from 2,5 mil to 1,9 mil.
And i'm earning around 50 k for every win.
Wut do?
 

FartyParty

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#56
As someone who was total garbage when the game came out and had to very slowly climb from <100K to >3 mil GSP, I will vouch for GSP being a better indicator of skill than a lot of people give it credit for. Flawed, yes, but mostly accurate. The players I was matching with when my GSP was low were unquestionably worse on average by a significant amount compared to the ones I'm matching with now. I could not maintain (and that word is really key here because reaching a particular GSP is much easier than staying there) an improved GSP without significant practice and significant gains in my personal skill. If an unskilled player lucks their way into a high GSP or games the system to get there, they will get knocked down soon enough, and over a high number of matches, the system places you basically where you should be - a GSP range where you win about half your matches against roughly even competition.
 
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#57
The GSP in this game is so annoying, it just discourages players when they lose in my opinion. Also, Elite smash is essentially similar to quickplay in terms of difficulty (from what I've played) because of the algorithm that determines how you get in elite smash. Nintendo needs to change things soon, because the system is skew and I think it could eventually lead to players getting burnt out a lot sooner than normal.
 

Crazy Hand 2001

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#58
The GSP in this game is so annoying, it just discourages players when they lose in my opinion. Also, Elite smash is essentially similar to quickplay in terms of difficulty (from what I've played) because of the algorithm that determines how you get in elite smash. Nintendo needs to change things soon, because the system is skew and I think it could eventually lead to players getting burnt out a lot sooner than normal.
Well given that Nintendo refuses to improve other issues such as no voice chat, I doubt they will improve the online on this game whatsoever
 

GamerZard

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#59
Some people might not like that you have to watch 4 matches before you get to play once if there's a full room, but it's worth it to be able to swap characters but play the same people again, and also to see how other decent players and their techniques, adapt to them while they're also watching you and adapting to you.
This is why I don't frequent the Battle Arenas. I'm too in love with the game to not be able to play. Quickplay is called that for a reason, but as said, GSP, among other things, causes problems for people wanting to get better. Battle Arenas solve that, but waiting gets tedious, and a little infuriating and discouraging if one player gets a long win streak.

I entered one, and an Incineroar player, of all people, took and kept the spotlight. One reason I strayed from arenas.
 

Sean²

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#60
This is why I don't frequent the Battle Arenas. I'm too in love with the game to not be able to play. Quickplay is called that for a reason, but as said, GSP, among other things, causes problems for people wanting to get better. Battle Arenas solve that, but waiting gets tedious, and a little infuriating and discouraging if one player gets a long win streak.

I entered one, and an Incineroar player, of all people, took and kept the spotlight. One reason I strayed from arenas.
You can do 2-man public arenas and play them for however long you or they want to play. There's never a wait, then.
 

GamerZard

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#61
I entered one, and an Incineroar player, of all people, took and kept the spotlight. One reason I strayed from arenas.[/QUOTE]
You can do 2-man public arenas and play them for however long you or they want to play. There's never a wait, then.
I know that, I'm a member of Anther's Ladder. I just don't like that there can't be more that 1 battle happening in the arena at a time. You just wait in Death Row and watch one player slay 'em all instead of practice against other, hopefully not as good, players.
 

TheDuke54

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
290
#62
The easiest way to improve gsp is to always give the player the mode they want instead of throwing them into matches they have no desire to do and are essentially set up to cheese an easy win.

They could also put something in affect that shows what mode you will soon be going into when you're waiting at the online lobby. And give you the option to say no thanks and then set you up in another lobby. Actually tell the player what it is and if they can decide if they want to or are tired of waiting to get their desire results.

And also color code the opponent's ping from red to green. Red being danger/lag imminent. And you can get out of there before it is too late to leave without a penalty.
 

1FC0

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#63
For example, you can be terrible at the game but if you spam enough and play it super safe, you will undoubtedly begin to rise through the ranks and I don't think that's how competitive Smash should work.
It is not like that. You only think it is because you have a scrub mentality. You have made up your own rules and are judging people according to your made-up rules. But the game and often your opponent will disregard your made-up rules.
If you get a high GSP then you are good at getting a high GSP. And since getting a high GSP is the challenge of the game that makes you good at the game. All those spammy people who get a high GSP are good at the game because they are good at getting a high GSP. They play bad according to your scrub game with your scrub rules, but they play good Smash. Which is really only natural, since they are trying to play good Smash and do not even know your scrub rules since your rules are only in your mind.

Then there's that end-goal in everyone's mind: Elite Smash. Today I reached it, and was instantly kicked out of it after losing a single match. In my opinion, that's complete bs. If I'm apparently skilled enough to get into Elite Smash, I should be able to stay there because I earned it. My skill level didn't drastically drop after losing a single match. It all goes back to GSP.
I had this too in the beginning. Though nowadays I have improved and have a pretty solid hold on Elite Smash. Maybe you got kicked out because your opponents got better. Elite Smash is all about relative skill. In addition to that if you are barely in Elite Smash then it is only natural that you would go in and out of it a few times. If they did not kick underperforming players out after they got in then Elite Smash would become an even bigger noob fest than it is right now.
Like I said, it's a poor ranking system that promotes people to indulge in their worst habits instead of trying to improve on their best ones. If you get your GSP to around 3,000,000, and you beat someone, odds are your opponent will quit instead of trying to strategize how they can beat you in order to ensure their GSP remains intact. After reaching Elite Smash, I think I'm just done with Quick Mode and I'm gonna be doing Battle Arenas a lot more often. Because at least there, you don't get punished for being bad (GSP goes down which in turn makes you look bad) and you aren't trying to play it safe either because, well, there's no GSP to worry about! I feel like people who constantly play Quick Play will one day just stop improving and will be stuck in a perpetual cycle of using bad strategies, or, will just rage quit due to GSP going down.
I agree that GSP is pretty crappy. However I am not bothered by it because even in Elite Smash I dominate almost all my opposition. But it is reasonable for a lesser player to be a bit frustrated by the how bad the GSP system works. At least it is a definite improvement over Smash 4 for me.
 
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Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,520
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
#64
I entered one, and an Incineroar player, of all people, took and kept the spotlight. One reason I strayed from arenas.

I know that, I'm a member of Anther's Ladder. I just don't like that there can't be more that 1 battle happening in the arena at a time. You just wait in Death Row and watch one player slay 'em all instead of practice against other, hopefully not as good, players.
Yeah, I get that, but you can do public, non-passworded 2 man arenas that way as well. They fill up pretty much immediately, and you get better games in. Then you can be the slayer or slayee at a constant rate versus just waiting around to get bodied.
 
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Downshift

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
304
#65
I just don't like that there can't be more that 1 battle happening in the arena at a time. You just wait in Death Row and watch one player slay 'em all instead of practice against other, hopefully not as good, players.
This concept could work I think. You could make "Paired Rooms" or something whenever you have 4, 6 or 8 people in an Arena. Could probably get a little complex for a Nintendo game though.
At the very least we should have the option to enter the Training Mode like you can while waiting for a match in Quickplay.
 

nshoes

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Messages
47
Location
Vancouver, WA
#66
I am admittedly OK at this game. ~2.2 million GSP with Wolf (I know, I know, but I just want to give you guys an idea of where I'm at). I recently picked up Pichu and have been having a blast locally, but online has been tough. I was playing far too aggressive and lag is terrible and (excuses, excuses) I dropped to like 82,000 GSP - LOL. Feels bad.

The past few days I have gotten to 89,000 GSP, and have been starting to play some people in the 250,000 - 500,000 range, and beating them, yay. But I don't understand why my GSP moves the same way it does when I fight someone with similar GSP. I destroyed a 600k Samus and only got like 1,000 GSP. Am I eternally stuck in the bowels of sub-100k GSP forever?
 

Xelrog

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
609
Location
Battle Ground, WA
Switch FC
SW 2367 4933 3404
#67
Generally speaking, you move less in GSP the more matches you play as a character. 600k is also rather low so I'm not sure why you would expect to get a big increase from it.

Just play the game and do your best. GSP is only the broadest and most general representation of skill, and if you're struggling to get past 2.2 mil, then that's just where you're at right now and all you need to do is keep playing and improving. It's really not a number worth worrying about, and it's not worth trying to find some "trick" to make the number increase faster. Just keep playing and get better.
 

nshoes

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Messages
47
Location
Vancouver, WA
#68
600k is also rather low so I'm not sure why you would expect to get a big increase from it
I agree that it's low, but I am a 88,000 GSP Pichu and playing a 600k Samus I thought I would get a bigger increase.

and if you're struggling to get past 2.2 mil,
Not struggling with that because I'm not playing Wolf right now. This thread is about my low GSP Pichu.
It's really not a number worth worrying about, and it's not worth trying to find some "trick" to make the number increase faster. Just keep playing and get better.
1000% agree, not hung up on it. I play to have fun and get better, period. I just want to understand GSP more because I thought I knew how it works but apparently I do not haha.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,520
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
#69
If you beat someone with higher GSP, you get more GSP. If you beat someone with lower GSP, you get less.

At least that's how it's supposed to work. But it's not very easy to figure out how it works, really.

I used Simon in quickplay to try and learn how to use the character. Switched to Richter - not for the first time I might add - and got him to Elite within 4 wins. Because I played a lot more games as Simon when I was practicing, I earn a lot less GSP for my wins. It's just not a great system, but would benefit greatly by at least being more transparent as to how it works, so we're not sitting here trying to deduce how GSP is calculated all day long.
 

Fiorello

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
5
#70
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but it’s mostly that GSP gain/loss is tied mostly to your own GSP. If your GSP is on the very low/high end of the spectrum it will rise/fall much more slowly than if you are in the middle of a pack so to speak.
The best advice regarding GSP is to just try to ignore it honestly. It’s a bad metric of improvement in the game and at worst will stress you out about your own performance.
 

nshoes

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Messages
47
Location
Vancouver, WA
#71
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but it’s mostly that GSP gain/loss is tied mostly to your own GSP. If your GSP is on the very low/high end of the spectrum it will rise/fall much more slowly than if you are in the middle of a pack so to speak.
The best advice regarding GSP is to just try to ignore it honestly. It’s a bad metric of improvement in the game and at worst will stress you out about your own performance.
Oh that's interesting. That would make sense why it's taking so long to get out of this hole, I definitely win a lot more games than I lose.

Totally agree on caring about GSP; it means nothing. Have fun and get better and learn and play.
 

Coccinelle

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
46
#72
My understanding is that this system is particularly bad for beginners who may lose a lot of games before they become competitive. Even if they become decent players in the long term, they may be stuck at a low GSP. Is that really better than no ranking at all?
 
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Xelrog

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
609
Location
Battle Ground, WA
Switch FC
SW 2367 4933 3404
#73
My understanding is that this system is particularly bad for beginners who may lose a lot of games before they become competitive. Even if they become decent players in the long term, they may be stuck at a low GSP. Is that really better than no ranking at all?
This is a system used by many online games that operates on a sort of "certainty principle," where the matchmaking's objective is not to provide a sense of progression but to find where to place you to provide the most balanced matches. The basic way it works is that the game predicts the winner of a match based on these numeric values and occasionally some other factors, and only if there's an upset is there any significant change in placement. That's why you move around so much at first and then less as you play more matches--the game becomes more "certain" of your skill as the data pool it has to work with increases.

I think Smash's system is modeled after this to some degree but I do not think it follows this philosophy slavishly, and it almost certainly doesn't use the same algorithm used by many other online games. Awesomenauts is one I can name specifically, and having played both for a great many hours, I can say that I still feel far more movement and progression in Smash than I do in that game. Eventually you would reach a point where you practically dead stop, there.
 

GamerZard

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
325
Location
Somewhere AWAY from Competitive Impressions
NNID
KopatropaEx
Switch FC
SW-4126-0500-0349
#74
Again with this "have fun and learn" stuff...

Losing isn't fun. Learning isn't fun because losing streaks make learning not worth it. Especially if you get bodied against certain characters, along with the fact that picking up a character who bodies you is a lot harder than it should be (outside of Lucina, but where's the fun in playing such a basic character?)

GSP is jank, but not caring about it doesn't remove the pain of losing, which I just can't get past. I've picked up and dropped so many characters that it's a wonder why I haven't just gotten rid of the game.

I feel like I need advanced, focus, pro-level character guides because this is really killing me inside.
 
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Amon O

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
12
Switch FC
SW 7305 3643 0520
#75
I’ve played about 150 matches in quickplay with each of the 10 characters I play, and regarding gsp I think it’s a simple hangup on what really matters here. Like others have stated, the more games you play the more the system puts you in an average that suits you. If you are indeed losing a bunch then it’s just you going up against others that may have more skill, or on a much smaller scale, win by gimmicks. The goal here is to simply have fun with the game, learn, and grow. Gsp is only a reflection of your average against others, not about you as a person. Learning to know the difference is a personal issue, not a system one.

Some of the characters I play are constantly in elite, others go in and out of elite, and yet others are just below and have never seen elite. The more games you play the more it will average out. I can say that 85% of the games I play on any given character are spot on in competitiveness. Just learn to enjoy the game for what it is.....a game. Mirroring your self worth based on some numbers which were designed to help you find similar skilled matches in a giant pool of players is immaturity.

TLDR: enjoy the game, it’s a game, Numbers are numbers and you are you.
 

nshoes

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Messages
47
Location
Vancouver, WA
#76
I am happy to report GSP is working for me now. It only took a few games beating a 1.5 million opponent to get out of the rut that is the 80k's right now. Having much better matches with much better connections now.

TLDR: enjoy the game, it’s a game, Numbers are numbers and you are you.
Bingo!
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
22
#77
So I play legit rules and my win rate i'd say is about 50-50. My GSP slowly grows to like around 4.3 mil and... nothing. I try to win more and still nothing. There are so many videos and threads that mention people getting it in like half an hour or less. But i've been playing the game for months for just NOTHING. Why is this? What are people doing!? What am I doing wrong!? please help
 
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TheDuke54

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
290
#78
If you're winning and not getting any gsp it's because your opponent(s) ragequit on you. Maybe you won and they shut the wifi off at the last second or they did it half way when they got bodied off the stage or something. When that happens, you don't get any points regardless if you win or lose the match against the cpu that takes over.

The ragequitter still loses whatever points were at stake though. Honestly if someone ragequits they should lose the points at stake and by default the others should have their points divided whether they win or not.
 

GChanJ

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
5
#79
Hi, I used to have Plau at 4.3 M GSP, Cloud at 4.2 M GSp, but now my Palu s at 2.7 and my cloud is <100K. I don''t understand why I do so badly. I watch m,y replays and adapt, but I get outplayed by bad players, while I do much better against better ones. Any tips?
 

Nengar94

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
16
#80
Some techniques that can help involve being in the mind of your opponent, if you notice they are landing. Think to yourself what are their options?
Fast fall, airdodge, aerial attack, mixup depending on character such as (bowser down b)
Once you learn this mindset you can see yourself thinking of more options and how to punish specific situations.
Ledge punishes are also important too, you should watch Gimr for more in depth tips, he is a great youtuber with lots of game knowledge.
 
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