Let's Talk GSP and Improving

TheBeastHimself

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#1
I'm going to be honest, I really don't like the GSP system in this game and I would've preferred some other type of ranking system. This is because, for a lot of people including myself, we can't help but stay focused on improving our GSP instead of actually improving at the game. The system promotes poor strategy, spammy moves, and playing it very safe because no matter how you play, you will always look better if your GSP is high. For example, you can be terrible at the game but if you spam enough and play it super safe, you will undoubtedly begin to rise through the ranks and I don't think that's how competitive Smash should work. A ranking system in a Smash game should promote skill and precise strategy.

Then there's that end-goal in everyone's mind: Elite Smash. Today I reached it, and was instantly kicked out of it after losing a single match. In my opinion, that's complete bs. If I'm apparently skilled enough to get into Elite Smash, I should be able to stay there because I earned it. My skill level didn't drastically drop after losing a single match. It all goes back to GSP.

Like I said, it's a poor ranking system that promotes people to indulge in their worst habits instead of trying to improve on their best ones. If you get your GSP to around 3,000,000, and you beat someone, odds are your opponent will quit instead of trying to strategize how they can beat you in order to ensure their GSP remains intact. After reaching Elite Smash, I think I'm just done with Quick Mode and I'm gonna be doing Battle Arenas a lot more often. Because at least there, you don't get punished for being bad (GSP goes down which in turn makes you look bad) and you aren't trying to play it safe either because, well, there's no GSP to worry about! I feel like people who constantly play Quick Play will one day just stop improving and will be stuck in a perpetual cycle of using bad strategies, or, will just rage quit due to GSP going down.
 

MG_3989

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#2
I wouldn’t put too much stock into GSP, it’s a very flawed ranking system and while generally the best players have the highest GSP there are some very good players I’ve played who are sitting around 1.5mil or less. I don’t automatically think somebody is good because they’ve reached elite smash or not good because they haven’t. GSP actually inhibits growth by having no incentive to rematch people that are better than you or around equal skill level. Almost nobody rematches when they lose or even after a close win

A good Battle Arena will help you improve wayyyyy more than quickplay. Quickplay is good for learning a lot of matchups and that’s about it. Losing and adapting is part of improving (and losing a lot to better players) and GSP inhibits people from doing that

I’ve been thinking and it might be a better system if you only gained GSP and never lost it and had another algorithm for matchmaking that players can’t see. Also it would be nice if you couldn’t see another players GSP
 
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#3
I'm going to be honest, I really don't like the GSP system in this game and I would've preferred some other type of ranking system.
You wouldn't be the first.

This is because, for a lot of people including myself, we can't help but stay focused on improving our GSP instead of actually improving at the game.
So, what's the difference between GSP and some ranked system besides the fact that a higher number is better than a lower number?

The system promotes poor strategy, spammy moves, and playing it very safe because no matter how you play, you will always look better if your GSP is high.
Again, what would be different about a ranked system? And how does looking at your GSP in hopes that it's high promote poor strategies, spammed moves, and playing it safe? You assert this, but you don't make any connection.

For example, you can be terrible at the game but if you spam enough and play it super safe, you will undoubtedly begin to rise through the ranks and I don't think that's how competitive Smash should work. A ranking system in a Smash game should promote skill and precise strategy.
And what if spamming certain moves and playing "super safe" is a skill or strategy? Technically, it would be a strategy. Besides, you're assuming this is true for everyone playing Quickplay.

Then there's that end-goal in everyone's mind: Elite Smash.
Let's change that to, "Then there's that end-goal in everyone's mind: being number one." Why is that a problem?

Today I reached it, and was instantly kicked out of it after losing a single match. In my opinion, that's complete bs. If I'm apparently skilled enough to get into Elite Smash, I should be able to stay there because I earned it. My skill level didn't drastically drop after losing a single match. It all goes back to GSP.
Well, then apparently there are better players who deserve to be in Elite Smash while you grow complacent because you've reached your goal. Sure, your skill level didn't "drastically drop", and perhaps it didn't drop at all. Perhaps you fought someone who had better strategies than you did, and as a result, you were kicked out. If you're confident in your skill, then entering Elite Smash shouldn't be a problem.

Like I said, it's a poor ranking system that promotes people to indulge in their worst habits instead of trying to improve on their best ones.
This is an assertion. You don't have any empirical evidence, nor do you have epistemic access to the minds of others.

If you get your GSP to around 3,000,000, and you beat someone, odds are your opponent will quit instead of trying to strategize how they can beat you in order to ensure their GSP remains intact.
Then that's on them.

After reaching Elite Smash, I think I'm just done with Quick Mode and I'm gonna be doing Battle Arenas a lot more often. Because at least there, you don't get punished for being bad (GSP goes down which in turn makes you look bad) and you aren't trying to play it safe either because, well, there's no GSP to worry about! I feel like people who constantly play Quick Play will one day just stop improving and will be stuck in a perpetual cycle of using bad strategies, or, will just rage quit due to GSP going down.
Then let them. And go ahead and play Battle Arenas. I can assert that I think there are people who think the ranking system is poor and severely flawed because their GSP is lackluster. So they'll settle for not looking at their GSP or deal with it because they're not confident in themselves. If Elite Smash isn't your thing, fine.
 
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Dilan Omer

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#4
Who the **** cares. All I would say is that you shouldnt be complaining about not being in ES. Its not meant for everyone
If you are better than them then just beat them jeez.

Anyhow what really grinds my gears is that you cant just choose to play randomly online with GSP not on the line.

I am not even scared of losing but the lower GSP you go the more often I have to fight laggy cancer and rulesets that differ from mine.Just bring back FG
and make a mode where u can go ranked or not. Its not so ****ing hard Nintendo.

Also gaining and losing points is so ******** lmao. Just make a real ranked system. Why do I gain like 500 points in ES mode and lose like 1 billion points if I lose with a new character once.
 
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Arrei

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#5
GSP has its flaws, but being worried about maintaining your rank is not one of them. That's going to be inherent of any ranking system. That's like saying a player who takes the grand prize at the biggest tournament once is going to just stop playing and stop going to tournaments, because if he never loses again he'll always be number one.

I just wish casual modes didn't factor in your GSP. I want to be able to turn on items and hazards and jump into Quickplay without worrying about dragging in some unlucky fellow who just wanted Fox only Final Destination.
 
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Klimax

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#8
If you wanna improve, don't play the online, because it's basically garbage.

It's just full of braindead ******* who are playing campy and spam projectiles. The more GSP they have, the more projectiles they use. The game is just not fun with these morons because you have to adapt to their style. And since they all have the same play style, you don't improve at all. You just frustration because you play long games against a bunch of idiots.

Do I also have to talk about the people who play while their connection is garbage ? Do I also have to talk about the fact that sometimes, you just play with matches with rules that you don't want ?

Elite Smash is just a glorified quickplay full of people who are toxic af. So you have the choice, playing against people with low GSP and take no fun in destroying them or playing against people with high GSP in Elite Smash and have no fun because they all play the same.

I'm just not interested in playing online anymore. I only met ONE good player in many hours, yeah just ONE guy that made me say "yeah, that guy's good". That was a Ken player and he was really impressive, i've never seen a better Ken. The rest was just garbage.

Trust me, if you want to improve, just play arena seriously with some of your friends. Most of my friends did the same, they stopped playing online and are just focusing on arena.
 
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#9
Not to be "that guy", but those of you complaining about projectile-spamming would hate to face my Mega Man (and by extension Zelda, who can play a bit of close-combat and keep-away). Zoning only really becomes an issue in lag, because input delays can mess up every counter maneuver you have at play. I'd like to hear an elaboration on what you deem "spammy" though. I get the frustration of something that's easily abusable and very rewarding with very low risk, but if you attribute that complaint to everything that's meant to keep you at a distance, wew boy, Justin Wong would be having the guffaws.

By my own judgment, GSP is very w/e to me. I consider myself a trash player by competitive standards. I lack the grit, the near-perfect reaction times, and the consistency to read and act. Personally, capturing a true ranking system is almost impossible because of many underlying factors. Sure, you can set up situations that help you adapt to laggy connections, but what then? Your opponent lags (no pun intended) behind and they're not playing the game at the speed it's meant to be played in. There are too many disadvantageous scenarios online that make match-making ultimately (again, no pun intended) pointless. This includes Battle Arena, which while definitely more consistent also has its flaws.
 

Klimax

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#10
Not to be "that guy", but those of you complaining about projectile-spamming would hate to face my Mega Man (and by extension Zelda, who can play a bit of close-combat and keep-away). Zoning only really becomes an issue in lag, because input delays can mess up every counter maneuver you have at play. I'd like to hear an elaboration on what you deem "spammy" though. I get the frustration of something that's easily abusable and very rewarding with very low risk, but if you attribute that complaint to everything that's meant to keep you at a distance, wew boy, Justin Wong would be having the guffaws.
To be exact, my problem is not characters who use projectiles. I just have a problem with morons spamming them + running away endlessly to the other side of the stage (that part is the real cancer). That's what makes me say "is this **** going anywhere ?". I mean, **** off, why a 3 stocks battle would last 6 minutes ? Play the damn game already. I just feel like most of the time, I'm playing against bots who are doing the same things over and over. And you don't improve at all because as soon you catch them, they don't even know how ****ing defend themselves.

And people can be cancer with every kind of characters, it's just that it's even more annoying with characters with projectiles. But the problem is not about the characters but the people who are just cancer.
 

Arrei

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#11
One perk about Nintendo is the lack of decay. If you're not playing, your GSP won't drop. Look at Overwatch's ranked system. It looks similar.
Hmm, the oddest thing about that. I haven't touched my Pikachu since he got into Elite, and at some point I saw he'd fallen out of Elite. After the 2.0 patch hit with its nebulous "ranking adjustments", he was Elite again.
 
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#12
Hmm, the oddest thing about that. I haven't touched my Pikachu since he got into Elite, and at some point I saw he'd fallen out of Elite. After the 2.0 patch hit with its nebulous "ranking adjustments", he was Elite again.
Strange, especially since one's GSP goes up every day.
 

Mischiiii

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#13
I just don’t know how you could possibly make a ranking system that determines real skill. Besides that everything takes skill. If you cant catch a player that runs away on Final Destination then you are probably bad as well although i myself don’t promote hit and run strategies. It just tilt you sometimes and wasts valuable time.

I would like to see a bronze silver gold platinum..... ranking system. Thia wouldn’t really make the system better but since gsp is always rising you would have a better estimate where you stand.
 

Urgoz

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#14
To be exact, my problem is not characters who use projectiles. I just have a problem with morons spamming them + running away endlessly to the other side of the stage (that part is the real cancer). That's what makes me say "is this **** going anywhere ?". I mean, **** off, why a 3 stocks battle would last 6 minutes ? Play the damn game already. I just feel like most of the time, I'm playing against bots who are doing the same things over and over. And you don't improve at all because as soon you catch them, they don't even know how ****ing defend themselves.

And people can be cancer with every kind of characters, it's just that it's even more annoying with characters with projectiles. But the problem is not about the characters but the people who are just cancer.
Dude just grab a character with a reflect.

I play samus and I am not ashamed to try and put as many space as possible between me and my opponent. Samus is a projectile-heavy character, do you expect me not to take advantrage of them? or to play defensively against rush-down characters and punish them with bombs? Do you expect me, as samus, to go toe to toe with an ike, cloud, or lucine with their massive range? or against a pichu or fox with their godlike speed? or maybe a King K with his armor frames? Please man, adapt. Mind you, I do not mindessly spam projectiles with her, but I do use them extensively and you can see when people can't get past them because all they're used to is mindlessly rushing down with a top tier, flowchart, fast character from day 1 then suddendly hit a brick wall when projectiles are in the equation.
 
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Klimax

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#15
Dude just grab a character with a reflect.

I play samus and I am not ashamed to try and put as many space as possible between me and my opponent. Samus is a projectile-heavy character, do you expect me not to take advantrage of them? or to play defensively against rush-down characters and punish them with bombs? Do you expect me, as samus, to go toe to toe with an ike, cloud, or lucine with their massive range? or against a pichu or fox with their godlike speed? or maybe a King K with his armor frames? Please man, adapt. Mind you, I do not mindessly spam projectiles with her, but I do use them extensively and you can see when people can't get past them because all they're used to is mindlessly rushing down with a top tier, flowchart, fast character from day 1 then suddendly hit a brick wall when projectiles are in the equation.
You don't and that's great but people do in online. I'm adapting to these people but as I said, the games are lasting an eternity. I don't even have fun winning these games because I felt like I played against a bot who did the same thing over and over.

That's how they play: > go to the ledge
> spam projectiles
> take some damages from the opponent
> rush to ther other side of the stage
> repeat this endlessly + don't ever use any other attacks.

After many games, it's getting old. Especially when people also do that with characters without projectiles. I'm not interested in playing against CPU Level 10 in some 6 minutes long games. One of my friends is a Samus main, he doesn't rely on just 2 moves and unlike people that I fought online, he can beat me up badly.
 

saiyan.

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#16
The fact of the matter is that the majority of the population that’s playing this game online are kids. Try sitting down and playing a couple quick plays during the weekend or after school hours and see how worse gameplay is competitively wise. Online is honestly utter **** in this game and I didn’t expect it to be any less. The best thing is to setup 1v1’s on BA mode and be done with it, have a moron who mashes the same two buttons with his forehead? Okay no problem, re-create the room and wait a minute for somebody else. Have a lagger who won’t leave? No problem refer to what I said earlier. You can also download the online switch app and trash talk these squeakers till they beg for forgiveness. I bask in this glory. Most people including myself wouldn’t even care to pay more $ monthly if it included a better online environment. Smfh
 

IrohDW

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#17
While I do agree that the online isn't great, its problems aren't what the complainers in this thread are saying. Campy play will occur regardless of the type of ranking system used, because It is the only strategy that new players know how to use. What many of you don't understand is that this type of "safe" play isn't safe at all. If you know what you are doing, you can maneuver around the projectiles and punish your opponent. The more predictable they are, the easier it is to beat them.

A big problem I see with people in this game is mindset. If you care too much about getting into Elite Smash, you will play too defensively, lose matches because of it, and get upset every time you lose. However, if you don't care enough, you won't be motivated to grow. I find that the key is to view the goal of getting into Elite Smash as a journey. View every loss as just another opportunity to learn something about how to defeat the type of player you are playing against. In other words, don't worry about winning the particular match you are in. Focus on the mistakes you are making in the match so that you can improve as a player. Once you improve enough, you will get into Elite Smash regardless of the problems in the ranking system.

I believe that what you really need to get into Elite Smash is a solid understanding of the games fundamentals such as: neutral, advantage state, disadvantage state, and recovery. If you understand how they apply to your character and your opponent's character, you can usually win even when facing a laggy, projectile spamming opponent. By having great fundamentals, I have been able to get many characters into Elite Smash, despite not spending much time on most of them.

I find that Quickplay is very useful in giving me experience in a lot of different matchups and against a lot of different types of players. The Battle Arena is useful for playing a more serious game against more competent opponents.

If any of you want to make it to Elite Smash and would like advice on how to improve, feel free to contact me on Discord. My id is: IrohDW#5828
 

Oneiros5321

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#18
I don't think the problem is tied to GSP specifically. You would have the same issue with any other ranking system.
There's no way for the game to see who's a good player and who's not. The only is based on win/lose and if people can cheese their way through GSP with shady tactics, then they would be able to do it with any other ranking system.

I do think Elite Smash is a problem though. Too many players focus their attention on that, it gives them a goal to reach and pushes them to use those shady tactics.
While I understand while Elite Smash is a thing and what was the intent behind it, I think it's just a bad idea to begin with.
 

MG_3989

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#19
I don't think the problem is tied to GSP specifically. You would have the same issue with any other ranking system.
There's no way for the game to see who's a good player and who's not. The only is based on win/lose and if people can cheese their way through GSP with shady tactics, then they would be able to do it with any other ranking system.

I do think Elite Smash is a problem though. Too many players focus their attention on that, it gives them a goal to reach and pushes them to use those shady tactics.
While I understand while Elite Smash is a thing and what was the intent behind it, I think it's just a bad idea to begin with.
Elite Smash should be something available to everyone to play with more standard and tournament rulesets and have a separate ranking system than quickplay. I know putting an incentive for winning is nice but it means absolutely nothing
 

saiyan.

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#20
While I do agree that the online isn't great, its problems aren't what the complainers in this thread are saying. Campy play will occur regardless of the type of ranking system used, because It is the only strategy that new players know how to use. What many of you don't understand is that this type of "safe" play isn't safe at all. If you know what you are doing, you can maneuver around the projectiles and punish your opponent. The more predictable they are, the easier it is to beat them.

A big problem I see with people in this game is mindset. If you care too much about getting into Elite Smash, you will play too defensively, lose matches because of it, and get upset every time you lose. However, if you don't care enough, you won't be motivated to grow. I find that the key is to view the goal of getting into Elite Smash as a journey. View every loss as just another opportunity to learn something about how to defeat the type of player you are playing against. In other words, don't worry about winning the particular match you are in. Focus on the mistakes you are making in the match so that you can improve as a player. Once you improve enough, you will get into Elite Smash regardless of the problems in the ranking system.

I believe that what you really need to get into Elite Smash is a solid understanding of the games fundamentals such as: neutral, advantage state, disadvantage state, and recovery. If you understand how they apply to your character and your opponent's character, you can usually win even when facing a laggy, projectile spamming opponent. By having great fundamentals, I have been able to get many characters into Elite Smash, despite not spending much time on most of them.

I find that Quickplay is very useful in giving me experience in a lot of different matchups and against a lot of different types of players. The Battle Arena is useful for playing a more serious game against more competent opponents.

If any of you want to make it to Elite Smash and would like advice on how to improve, feel free to contact me on Discord. My id is: IrohDW#5828
I agree with everything you’ve stated except the part about what you need to be able to get into ES currently in this game. You don’t need any fundamentals in this game to reach it that’s why the majority of the people in this thread are complaining about spammers. I don’t know how many matches I play daily in ES where the guy just sits and spams the same 3 moves on villager and that’s why theirs no point in trying to reach it or playing it. You don’t learn anything from playing against them it’s a waste of time that won’t ever transfer over to local. If you don’t have friends that play then BA is the best thing. The incentive is trash in online, GSP is dumb.
 

Klimax

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#21
I'm already in ES, I didn't need anything, I even reached it with Little Mac, people still suck balls. As I said, after hours of playing in Elite Smash, I only met one good player, the rest was just a bunch of level 10 CPU.

The online is trash, now I just play arena with people that I know.
 

Oneiros5321

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#22
Elite Smash should be something available to everyone to play with more standard and tournament rulesets and have a separate ranking system than quickplay. I know putting an incentive for winning is nice but it means absolutely nothing
Well, competitive and casual should have a separate ranking system to begin with. If they were to limit that to Elite Smash, that would mean that if a casual player reach Elite Smash, the game would make him play competitive all of a sudden. It wouldn't be fair.
 

MG_3989

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#23
Well, competitive and casual should have a separate ranking system to begin with. If they were to limit that to Elite Smash, that would mean that if a casual player reach Elite Smash, the game would make him play competitive all of a sudden. It wouldn't be fair.
Nah what I mean is “Elite Smash” should’ve been the competitive mode to begin with. Everyone who wants to play competitive plays Elite Smash and then there’s just a separate ranking and matchmaking system within elite. And then Quickplay would be the casual mode where you could play with any ruleset you want and you couldn’t reach elite it would just stay quickplay

This way everyone gets what they want and nobody can cheese there way into an Elite Smash that isn’t separate from quick play that honestly means absolutely nothing
 

Oneiros5321

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#24
Nah what I mean is “Elite Smash” should’ve been the competitive mode to begin with. Everyone who wants to play competitive plays Elite Smash and then there’s just a separate ranking and matchmaking system within elite. And then Quickplay would be the casual mode where you could play with any ruleset you want and you couldn’t reach elite it would just stay quickplay

This way everyone gets what they want and nobody can cheese there way into an Elite Smash that isn’t separate from quick play that honestly means absolutely nothing
Ah I misunderstood. Then yes, I totally agree.
 
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DCavalier

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#25
Nah what I mean is “Elite Smash” should’ve been the competitive mode to begin with. Everyone who wants to play competitive plays Elite Smash and then there’s just a separate ranking and matchmaking system within elite. And then Quickplay would be the casual mode where you could play with any ruleset you want and you couldn’t reach elite it would just stay quickplay

This way everyone gets what they want and nobody can cheese there way into an Elite Smash that isn’t separate from quick play that honestly means absolutely nothing
This, For Glory and For Fun should make a return and it should have Tournament ruleset by default on For Glory alongside GSP ranking and Elite Status, for the very best.

What I actually find lame of my opponents is that they sometimes go for the Cheese ruleset 2 Stock, 3 min.
Whenever I see that ruleset I know that I will have to take the first stock cause if my opponent gets it, it will keep running away until a timeout happens.
And the saddest thing is that now that I'm at 3.75 million, it's a ruleset that I've been seeing more often like 1/4 of my matches have that ruleset.
 

ToniestTony

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
5
#26
You don't and that's great but people do in online. I'm adapting to these people but as I said, the games are lasting an eternity. I don't even have fun winning these games because I felt like I played against a bot who did the same thing over and over.

That's how they play: > go to the ledge
> spam projectiles
> take some damages from the opponent
> rush to ther other side of the stage
> repeat this endlessly + don't ever use any other attacks.

After many games, it's getting old. Especially when people also do that with characters without projectiles. I'm not interested in playing against CPU Level 10 in some 6 minutes long games. One of my friends is a Samus main, he doesn't rely on just 2 moves and unlike people that I fought online, he can beat me up badly.
It might depend on who you main, but these games shouldn't last an eternity, if you know they're going to spam and rush to the other side, there are plenty of ways to avoid taking damage from obvious spam and even more ways to punish someone trying to rush to the other side of the stage. And if they keep doing this you can go for hard reads and it shouldn't last too long. Maybe in the first 2 weeks there were more spammers in elite, but so far I've only encountered around 3-4 people like you described in elite in more than 100 games. The other "spammers" used various tricks to catch me off guard and those ones didn't just spam 2 moves.
 

saiyan.

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#27
This, For Glory and For Fun should make a return and it should have Tournament ruleset by default on For Glory alongside GSP ranking and Elite Status, for the very best.

What I actually find lame of my opponents is that they sometimes go for the Cheese ruleset 2 Stock, 3 min.
Whenever I see that ruleset I know that I will have to take the first stock cause if my opponent gets it, it will keep running away until a timeout happens.
And the saddest thing is that now that I'm at 3.75 million, it's a ruleset that I've been seeing more often like 1/4 of my matches have that ruleset.
I’ve had this happen too many times and I honestly just suicide to save time.
 

DCavalier

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#28
I’ve had this happen too many times and I honestly just suicide to save time.
I try make them hate themselves for choosing that style of lame gameplan.
If I take the first stock, I start annoying them with Pellets while running away to show them I can play that way too and be way more annoying.
It's funny when you break them and they actually SD because of it, still triggers me whenever I play against them but hopefully being cheesed out will make them reconsider their gameplan.
 

Urgoz

Smash Rookie
Joined
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Messages
8
#29
You don't and that's great but people do in online. I'm adapting to these people but as I said, the games are lasting an eternity. I don't even have fun winning these games because I felt like I played against a bot who did the same thing over and over.

That's how they play: > go to the ledge
> spam projectiles
> take some damages from the opponent
> rush to ther other side of the stage
> repeat this endlessly + don't ever use any other attacks.

After many games, it's getting old. Especially when people also do that with characters without projectiles. I'm not interested in playing against CPU Level 10 in some 6 minutes long games. One of my friends is a Samus main, he doesn't rely on just 2 moves and unlike people that I fought online, he can beat me up badly.
I understand you now, I've encountered quite a few characters like that some time ago, two were a wolf that spammed B and a Mii Swordfighter that spammed the tornado neutral B waiting for it to connect them rushing to do aerial Up B spin attack (the one similar to link). Took me one stock to adapt, (Mii swordfighter I just spammed back lol) but I rarely encounter them now. I do think there are more spammers and bots as you say in low GSP (As flawed as the sytem is, I DO believe it is a kind of filter to an extent), I feel that's because they remain there cause on the upper levels I hardly see them anymore, just really good players that can read opponents and adapt. At what GSP are you? Playing with Samus at 3.8mil I hardly see spammers, but when I tried bowser, who was at like 1.5, all I had were spamming villagers, Mega Mans, Snakes and dash attack spamming Little Macs.
 
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Oneiros5321

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
115
#30
I do think there are more spammers and bots as you say in low GSP (As flawed as the sytem is, I DO believe it is a kind of filter to an extent)
Sadly I don't have the same feeling. I mean, there are spammers at low GSP of course, but I don't know, you can sorta feel that it's mainly because they don't quite know how to play and they are usually really easy to beat.

I've encountered more of them above 3 million and they are the most annoying because they got there for a reason, they understand the game, they know how to move and they are much much more annoying to deal with.

That's the feeling I got at least.

EDIT = but maybe I'm getting more frustrated when meeting them at this rank which leads me to make more mistakes, idk :confused:
 
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Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
2,248
Location
KarneraMythos#2374 (on Discord)
NNID
KarMythos
Switch FC
SW-3554-9727-0109
#31
I'm currently at 3.7 million with Mega Man, though I haven't checked that number in a while so maybe it grew since I left. Ironically enough though, I consider Zelda to be my best character atm, but I always switch between both of them (and occasionally Ike).
 

Xquirtle

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
172
Location
Columbus, Ohio
#32
I understand you now, I've encountered quite a few characters like that some time ago, two were a wolf that spammed B and a Mii Swordfighter that spammed the tornado neutral B waiting for it to connect them rushing to do aerial Up B spin attack (the one similar to link). Took me one stock to adapt, (Mii swordfighter I just spammed back lol) but I rarely encounter them now. I do think there are more spammers and bots as you say in low GSP (As flawed as the sytem is, I DO believe it is a kind of filter to an extent), I feel that's because they remain there cause on the upper levels I hardly see them anymore, just really good players that can read opponents and adapt. At what GSP are you? Playing with Samus at 3.8mil I hardly see spammers, but when I tried bowser, who was at like 1.5, all I had were spamming villagers, Mega Mans, Snakes and dash attack spamming Little Macs.
I think people mean spamming in the sense that you described your bowser experience. Like half the cast has overly rewarding and asinine moves that are buffed by latency... And the worse a player is, the more likely they are to get absolutely **** on by a B only Ganon (for example). I see that crap all of the time, even over 3 mil. Ganons that actually can't play their character and just get wins off of down B and side B. They must be beating somebody (I just play patiently and platform camp this type of junk.)

Projectile spamming actually seems less common than side B spamming (i mean like refusing to engage close range). Maybe thats because fully committed projectile spamming doesn't actually win you games as single-handedly as dash attack spamming or playing Ridley and using side B 30 times a game. Like if I queue into a Link variant, I know I am going to get camped, but there is a decent chance that the guy can also go in. I do remember a Link that did nothing but camp projectile and camp up B out of shield (which is absolutely busted), but in general, the projectile spammers don't seem to get carried as hard as people doing the side B / dash attack spam.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,520
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
#33
I'm already in ES, I didn't need anything, I even reached it with Little Mac, people still suck balls. As I said, after hours of playing in Elite Smash, I only met one good player, the rest was just a bunch of level 10 CPU.

The online is trash, now I just play arena with people that I know.
"Location: Austria"

Maybe this is working against you, because I consistently play against people in ES that push me to my absolute limit. Very seldom do I run into someone who just autopilots and sucks. And it isn't usually because of lag or anything. IDK what the level of high level smash players you have over there but regional matchmaking can make things unbalanced. GSP and locking away a higher level of play behind it is silly, but it doesn't make the entire system trash.
 

InfiniteRE

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
63
#34
If it was up to me, I would do away with the whole GSP system, and implement something a little more simpler and old school per say. I would implement a simple 3 category leader board system (FFA, Team, 1v1) and have it go by points in a simple ladder system.

For example, you match make and the first wave goes 100 ranks either above or below you, and if you don't find one then it goes a little further, lets say 300 ranks and so on.

As for getting points to increase your leader board ranking, they vary depending on the level of competition you play, lets say you play someone 500-1000 ranks ahead of you and you win, you will get a lot more points than playing someone below your competition.

Now I think a system like this should award the grind players and not lower as much for losing, but I think it would make the whole process a lot easier to understand. I know some of you have seen a system like this before, can it work?
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,520
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
#35
I’ve suggested they look to matchmaking systems similar to Halo 3, Halo Reach, or a mixture of the two if they’re going to remain p2p matchmaking. For as simple as it was, it worked. The reason I state a possible mixture is due to issues that come up with people buying and selling accounts being more prevalent in one game over the other, but a simple ranking system with bonuses for ranking up could work well on Smash. Daily, weekly, or monthly challenges to complete by playing a certain amount of certain game modes online. Don’t hide Elite behind a veil of “skill” either, If we’re paying for it, all modes should be available for everyone.
 

IrohDW

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
101
Location
Foster City, CA
Switch FC
SW-2473-0493-0622
#36
If it was up to me, I would do away with the whole GSP system, and implement something a little more simpler and old school per say. I would implement a simple 3 category leader board system (FFA, Team, 1v1) and have it go by points in a simple ladder system.

For example, you match make and the first wave goes 100 ranks either above or below you, and if you don't find one then it goes a little further, lets say 300 ranks and so on.

As for getting points to increase your leader board ranking, they vary depending on the level of competition you play, lets say you play someone 500-1000 ranks ahead of you and you win, you will get a lot more points than playing someone below your competition.

Now I think a system like this should award the grind players and not lower as much for losing, but I think it would make the whole process a lot easier to understand. I know some of you have seen a system like this before, can it work?
I like the idea of segregating the ranking system by ruleset type. It makes no sense to treat skill in FFA the same as skill in 1v1 or team battles. However, I don't have much confidence that the devs would choose good rulesets within those categories. I suppose that the best of both worlds would be to have different modes for each category that guarantee you get the type of match you want, but allow players to choose variations within those categories such as number of stocks, stage type, etc.

Having said that, I think that what the game needs even more is a non-ranked quickplay mode. It annoys me that I can't practice characters I am new with on quickplay without losing a lot of GSP as I learn them. Using the arenas to work on new characters takes more time to set up and requires more effort. I think that players would feel better about quickplay if they didn't always have to risk GSP every time they play it.
 

Xquirtle

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
172
Location
Columbus, Ohio
#37
I like the idea of segregating the ranking system by ruleset type. It makes no sense to treat skill in FFA the same as skill in 1v1 or team battles. However, I don't have much confidence that the devs would choose good rulesets within those categories. I suppose that the best of both worlds would be to have different modes for each category that guarantee you get the type of match you want, but allow players to choose variations within those categories such as number of stocks, stage type, etc.

Having said that, I think that what the game needs even more is a non-ranked quickplay mode. It annoys me that I can't practice characters I am new with on quickplay without losing a lot of GSP as I learn them. Using the arenas to work on new characters takes more time to set up and requires more effort. I think that players would feel better about quickplay if they didn't always have to risk GSP every time they play it.
If we look at for glory and GSP and combined them together, i think we'd be fine. Like Nintendo has shown that they can competently break it out like you want, although, it would be horrific if it went back to omegaLul stages only. That basically breeds cancer.

I have the same thing with alt characters. Like it definitely annoys me to lose GSP even though its a garbage system and its extremely annoying to recover the rating. For example, if you lose 4 or 5 games in a row on Pichu when you first take him online, which is likely, you're going to be pretty low GSP... and if you don't win streak right out of there and establish 5-10 wins at medium to high gsp, you will be buried. Then, to further break you down mentally, the game puts you against players close to your main's gsp, and you lose / win just as much rating as beating the guy at 1 gsp... I use the Pichu example since i decided to pick him up and jump right in. I tanked down to 100k in like 30 minutes lol. Literally queued into a 3.4 mil (34 times my rank? like wtf), lost since I was bad at Pichu, and lost 25% of my ranking while he gained hundreds of thousands. Its actually bonkers. Anyway, I eventually did a few hours of trainer and bot games on PIchu and dug him out, but man was it a pain in the *** and it took a huge win streak. Ughhh!
 

Arrei

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
1,226
#38
GSP and Elite Smash continues to confound me. I decided that, after playing with Tap Jump since Smash 64, it was finally time to get out of my comfort zone and turn it off. To that end, I decided to use Lucina for practice, who I had never taken online and I should have, theoretically, been able to lose enough to stay in the kiddie pool where I can practice and start overwriting my jump muscle memory.

I went in, lost my first match, backed out to character select... aaaaaannnd she's in Elite Smash. I guess my baseline GSP is good enough for Elite, but the game just doesn't want to actually put me there until I play a game? Here I am actively trying to avoid getting in and the game just tells me to park my butt down in Elite and deal with it.
 
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2 C H i L L E D

Eternal Hitstun
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
308
Location
Birmingham, AL
3DS FC
3956-0619-2163
#40
The thing is people are just too focused on their GSP. When I’m playing online, I am never worried about losing GSP for the most part. You yourself have to be the person who wants to improve and isn’t focused on the GSP. You want to improve but at the same time you hate losing your GSP you said it yourself.

Just play. The important thing is to play and play and play. If you want to improve that’s how you do it. Using some arbitrary number in a ranking system with no leaderboard, to gauge your personal ability makes no sense. It just gives you a false sense of self accomplishment. The only benefit of being in Elite Smash is playing better players. You’ll still fight ES level players even at 3.4-3.5 Mil currently. Arenas are going to be a better choice than quickplay for improving anyways in my own opinion.
 
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