Let's talk about disable

[RichBrown]

Dude, this move is sort of like Rest

If Mewtwo is at 100% and he lands a disable on say Sheik around 50-55%, that's the stock.

The problem for me is that I don't really have any setups into this move. There's nothing guaranteed that I know of but I feel that this move (as well as the fear of this move) is such a crucial and underutilized part of Mewtwo's game.

I only have 2 real situations where I use it:

-After a Dthrow, airdodge read

-Try really really really hard to react to a ledge getup

And that's kinda it

If you guys have figured out anything even remotely useful with this move, please share

 

[Deleted member]

OMG IT'S RICH BROWN EEEEEEEEEEE

I'm pretty sure that jab 1 can set up into it? I'm not sure if it's true, though. Disable is definitely a dangerous move that has great reward than landed, I'm sure we'll find other setups into it if we haven't found them.

 

[PEACE7]

PP into it when been chased so a fake out, also Parry OS would probably be your best bet. Check these two videos out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlGQpPg5PQc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET1PZwOJ6mU

 

[Y2Kay]

What I love to do on stages like Battlefield is Short Hop disable to catch people on platforms. It doesn't work a lot, but you said anything....

 

[Sonicninja115]

SH Disable is a great way to stun people. It leaves most of Mewtwo hurtbox beneath the platform, and he is falling before he can get punished if the opponent shields it. SH Disable is really good.

 

[Mr. B]

Well timed against an aerial opponent, its a good disjoint to get a bit of space... only 1% damage but hey. you get the stalling effect too... don't try this against opponents who approach with BAirs, natch.

With no platforms, its difficult to do anything that has guaranteed success of a followup disable landing the stun effect, and I only tend to try it when I know that their landing lag is going to be epic. In those situations I dash into it following an uncharged SB for reasonable success, but it never works more than once in a match unless my opponent is dumb.

If I am recovering, they are close to the ledge (facing me, waiting to gimp) and I still have my second jump I will sometimes have a go at disabling them in the feet with a followup DJ> rising FAir

 

[Swoops]

RichBrown

There's not too many set ups for it outside of the stuff that's already been mentioned above. Jab > Disable is probably you're best choice.

You can also mix up Jab > Jab > Disable (or other stuff,) since the second jab will often link from the first possibly taking their double jump and limiting their options. If they shield the first jab you can always try to react and multijab after the second one too.

 

[Amaru]

It's alright for reading rolls. And if you can bait your opponent to throw out an aerial with a little landing lag, it can be a pretty devastating punish.

Jab > Disable is pretty unreliable anywhere outside of For Glory or on heavy characters at low or mid percent imo.

 

[Zarxrax]

I have noticed that this move actually has a good bit of range. Twice today I was able to punish players who whiffed with a smash attack that was just barely out of range, but my disable was barely within range to hit them.

 

[adom4]

are there any jabs laggy enough for them to be punished with disable OOS?
I think Cloud's jab might but i'm not 100% on that.

 

[Chiroz]

are there any jabs laggy enough for them to be punished with disable OOS?
I think Cloud's jab might but i'm not 100% on that.

I somehow doubt it.

Mostly you will have to Jump OoS and then DJ into Disable, which will be 6 frames at the least (still 1 less frame than Shield Dropping). Disable comes out frame 16 so it would hit on frame 22 at the earliest, but since it's a projectile unless the opponent is extremely close to you it will probably have to travel a bit, so expect the usual frame data of and OoS Disable to be around 23-26 frames I would guess.



This is also if you are frame perfect on the jump right after the hit. Is there really any jab that lags this much?

 

[Chiroz]

are there any jabs laggy enough for them to be punished with disable OOS?
I think Cloud's jab might but i'm not 100% on that.

Actually, just because I was curious, I tested at 1/4th speed and you are actually correct.

In fact we have like 6-8 frames to punish it (which also means we can just drop shield), we don't even have to be frame perfect!



Now that I look at it, Kuroganehammer does state that Cloud jab has 31 frames of lag. Maybe it would be good to make a list of what attacks we can reliably punish with Disable.

 

[Browny]

Throw a baby shadowball at someone from a decently far distance as they are landing. If you've got the timing right, the shadowball will arrive just before you do and so the enemy can expect a dash attack for example and they need to deal with two moving hurtboxes catching their landing. If the enemy doesn't have any way to reliably alter their aerial momentum horizontally and not result in them being completely vulnerable (so DK, Cloud, Rosalina, Toon Link) they are probably going to challenge, or airdodge the shadowball + fake out dash attack which in either situation, leads to a free dash -> disable.

I've only ever landed this a few times with a low success rate, but its certainly a set up that can be unavoidable for characters like Cloud who are forced to try and stall with blade beam or cross slash which sets them up for a hard punish like usmash anyway

 

[Chiroz]

Throw a baby shadowball at someone from a decently far distance as they are landing. If you've got the timing right, the shadowball will arrive just before you do and so the enemy can expect a dash attack for example and they need to deal with two moving hurtboxes catching their landing. If the enemy doesn't have any way to reliably alter their aerial momentum horizontally and not result in them being completely vulnerable (so DK, Cloud, Rosalina, Toon Link) they are probably going to challenge, or airdodge the shadowball + fake out dash attack which in either situation, leads to a free dash -> disable.

I've only ever landed this a few times with a low success rate, but its certainly a set up that can be unavoidable for characters like Cloud who are forced to try and stall with blade beam or cross slash which sets them up for a hard punish like usmash anyway

You finally see the use of Baby Shadow Ball for traps I see . It's good that you're expanding your game.

I use this trick a lot but mostly for getting grabs or U-Smashes since it traps the opponent into predictable choices. I have never tried doing it and aiming for a Disable though, I will keep that in mind to see how effective it is.

 

[B-dAWG]

phasing into disable can be useful as well as ff fair at low percents, n air, if done right can also lead into it.

 

[Chiroz]

phasing into disable can be useful as well as ff fair at low percents, n air, if done right can also lead into it.

N-Air always makes your opponent face backwards when you fast fall it. Unless you mean landing the last hit of N-Air but I don't think that would work past 20% damage which isn't really useful.

 

[B-dAWG]

yeah thats exactly what i meant, ur right that it only works at low percents but disable is useful even then
also at what percent does it start being optimal to use disable after a jab lock and then punish instead of just the punish?

 

[Chiroz]

yeah thats exactly what i meant, ur right that it only works at low percents but disable is useful even then
also at what percent does it start being optimal to use disable after a jab lock and then punish instead of just the punish?

Mewtwo always gets more out of D-Tilt than anything else unless you're going for a kill. You can always do Disable to get an extra 2% damage (throw a couple of Disables), but tbh you probably shouldn't be going for a Smash unless the opponent is higher than 70% and at that point Disable Charged U-Smash will probably kill unless you're like at 0 rage.

 

[Top Boss]

footstool>djc disable.
On non floaty characters at low percents, falling forward air>footstool is true and will leave the opponent grounded, so you can punish with footstool>DJC disable.
You can also get this setup with a falling down air. Falling up air works on fast fallers.

 

[Darklink401]

Jab jab disable often has them high enough where they will get hit with the disable almost as soon as they land, making jumping the better option, but its the only "setup" into it that's semi-reliable.

I guess vs fastfallers soft uptilt might also work, since they'd be right in front of you, but you leave yourself open for whatever punish xD

 

[Chiroz]

Jab jab disable often has them high enough where they will get hit with the disable almost as soon as they land, making jumping the better option, but its the only "setup" into it that's semi-reliable.

I guess vs fastfallers soft uptilt might also work, since they'd be right in front of you, but you leave yourself open for whatever punish xD

There are certain %s for most characters where jab->disable is guaranteed unless they jump because they won't have time for an aerial and they will be in their landing lag animation and won't be able to shield.

I used to have a list of the %s for each char where this setup would kill before Jab->U-Tilt->U-Smash. It wasn't a huge list but there were like 15 chars where this was actually useful.

Like for example Rosalina if jabbed around 40-70% without Luma around would literally have 0 options but jumping. No time for an aerial, Air Dodging would just make her land with lag and if she tried to land into shield she wouldn't have enough time.

 

[Zarxrax]

Maybe it would be good to make a list of what attacks we can reliably punish with Disable.

I think this would be an excellent idea. There is a spreadsheet of frame advantage for all moves (1.14) available here. Not sure if a newer one is available anywhere.
So it should basically just be a matter of filtering out which moves are over a certain value. But exactly how much advantage do we need in order to reliably punish? I might be able to go through and make a list myself, but I don't want to do it all and then find out I used the wrong value, lol.