Let's look at autocancelling some nair

[Kataefi]

< NAIR 3
(because I love HSS)

• 5 hits
• Hits 1-4 autcancel
  
• A seemingly random trajectory that can offer a lot of good reading situations.
• - 11 on block at worst, it can vary depending on how you autocancel on their shield.
• As a guideline, you can powershield aerials of 5 frames or more if they retaliate to your 'get behind them' Nair immediately... if they wait, then the positions reset.

WHAT CAN BE DONE?

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So basically this video shows 4 things:

1) Trajectories can be forced from an autocancelled Nair - they aren't random.

2) Nair links straight into kill moves that kill REALLY EARLY and other utility moves like Grabs and Dtilts, the latter of which is your typical combo builder... aka dtilt > dtilt > dtilt > dtilt > dtilt > dtilt > dtilt > dtilt > dtilt > DSMASH!

3) Trajectories where they get sent slightly higher can let the opponent begin an airdodge just as they hit the ground, but despite these types of trajectories they still offer a sizeable advantage of 20+ frames.

4) This is surprisingly percent, SDI and DI friendly solely because hits 1-4 have set knockback and the knockback isn't enough to directionally affect it.

_

Villi actually suggested this last year. It's not so much a discovery because we all knew Nair could do some weird and wonderful things.

So yeah... that's autocancelled Nair. No flaming! Let's develop some strategies surrounding autocancel nair. We need something new to talk about anyways!
​

 

[Kataefi]

*Reserved because I said so!*

Also a very big <3 to Half-split Soul, as always.

 

[KayLo!]

We should probably focus on setups.

Landing an autocanceled nair is **** hard since it's ridiculously easy to block (especially since it's one of Zelda's only approaches).

I'll be more helpful later, I just.... think that's what we should start with. ;;

 

[Kataefi]

Well it's safe when you get behind them... that's a start =) It pokes the shield, which is nice I suppose.

Oh you can do this if they are slightly in the air and drag them back down to the ground with you. That's something else =) In which case it leads to the same advantages but they appear standing right in front of you.

I'm interested to see if we can tech chase this from a dtilt trip on taller characters that can't reliably be SH Fair'd. The bigger ones we can just run up and Fair as they roll away and the fat ones we just buffer the LK when they trip.

We could also check what interesting things happen on platforms with Nairing below.

Edit: let's brainstorm ideas kaylo!

 

[KayLo!]

After 11? My brain shut down a few hours ago. =X

I'll be back in the morning, byyyyye~ <333

*runs*

 

[Veggie123]

Worst. Thread. Ever.

But SERIOUSLY, this could potentially be another way to get some guaranteed setups as Zelda. Not saying that dtilt isn't already good for that, but having more would be nice too.

It looks like it would be very useful against the larger characters, further backing my assertion that Zelda can be a capable fatty slayer!

Anyway this adds more mix in her game, since a lot of people are accustomed for Zelda to airdodge or empty hop into a ground move or something. I toyed around with the AC nair against Wario a bit...it makes grabbing him easier. But again you need to think, how often are they going to get hit with AC nair? I haven't gotten it down completely yet, but I think it's something definitely worth looking into.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Best. Subtitle. Ever.

We should probably focus on setups.

Finally my years as Nair spammer are paying off!​

So, here're few tactics I can think off the top of my head:

• Ledgedrop to Double Jump to Nair. This works if someone misplaces himself or isn't expecting an attack when you're hanging from the ledge.​
• Platform drop to Nair. Pretty self-explanatory I think. Works for example if someone's standing near the edge of the platform: attack their shield and push them of, then follow with platform drop Nair.​
• Empty shorthop to Douple Jump to Fastfall Nair + other similar mindgames.​
• Prediction to Nair punishment. There's a huge amount of moves that can be avoided by shorthopping. If you can predict them there's an opening for fastfall Nair afterwards. Few examples would include Kirby's down-angled/normal Fsmash and a huge deal of Dtilts and dash attacks.​
• Dtilt to Nair. Works if they are focused on DI'ing away or if they trip. This is often rather risky or unnecessary difficult option though.​
• Low percent Ftilt or Usmash to Nair. Pretty obvious, although I'm not sure if this is worth the risk.​
• RAR Nair. Technically speaking this shouldn't work but you'd be surprised how often it actually makes people to drop their shield.​
• Sourspot LK to Nair. Again, this is avoidable but can still sometimes work.​

I think that's all I can come up with now.​

 

[GodAtHand]

It's a shame Zelda puts her arms straight out when doing this move... Most character have some sort of quick move to use against you to counter an air-based approach like this...

On topic.
I mostly use nair to try to out space my opponents air combat if they are being fairly predictable. (don't try against character with awesome range...). Nair is awesome because if you space just right nothing that has a hurtbox attached will win.
Ftilt to nair works often and can lead into longer combo strings.
On a platform nair can sometimes push shielders off and cause them to fall to the ground.
Has nothing to do with autocanceling it... but against characters with lackluster recoveries you can use nair to trap them with you off stage and purposefully just fall as low and close to the blastzone as possible. Then you can use your double jump and recovery to get back and they will probably die.

 

[Kataefi]

• Prediction to Nair punishment. There's a huge amount of moves that can be avoided by shorthopping. If you can predict them there's an opening for fastfall Nair afterwards. Few examples would include Kirby's down-angled/normal Fsmash and a huge deal of Dtilts and dash attacks.​

Yeah this is what I'm interested in as well... getting AC Nair in terms of ease is relative to a character's height - the taller they are the easier it is to connect with a followup. I'm finding Zelda's immediate double jump an optimal height against taller characters for evasion... and the SH for tinier characters. The problem of course is losing that second jump...

That... and I'm pretty confident this can be set up somehow from a dtilt ??? maybe?

@Veggie: aw that's very nice of you

@Riot: Veggie told me on the chat, and I don't know if you've noticed, but the last hit of Nair always sends in the opposite direction to the input of the directional stick on the pad --> so if nair and press left... they go right, and vice versa. What kind of followups do you mean?

_

I'm using all these @s because I've been playing so much mafia in the decisive forums recently... game's got me addicted :/

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

That... and I'm pretty confident this can be set up somehow from a dtilt ??? maybe?

Doesn't Dtilt pop them up, with a decent amount of hitstun, over 80%(obv. differs on characters). Airdodges out of that Dtilt are often VERY predictable. Kill set up for when people have gotten smart enough to DI away possibly?

 

[GodAtHand]

@Riot: Veggie told me on the chat, and I don't know if you've noticed, but the last hit of Nair always sends in the opposite direction to the input of the directional stick on the pad --> so if nair and press left... they go right, and vice versa. What kind of followups do you mean?

I don't recall saying anything about followups in my post... So I can't answer you well lol. My most used followups out of this are probably grab, dash attack, and another nair.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Ftilt to nair works often and can lead into longer combo strings. .

I don't recall saying anything about followups in my post... So I can't answer you well lol. My most used followups out of this are probably grab, dash attack, and another nair.

l o l .

 

[GodAtHand]

Not quite the same... and the it's always the same stuff that you can do out of it.

Watching the vids I saved I actually use nair a lot. It just sucks when just about any character knows its coming or is short statured. Kirby's uptilt ***** nair lol.

 

[Oh Snap]

Nice!

but does this work against opponents who DI after being hit by Nair?

 

[KayLo!]

but does this work against opponents who DI after being hit by Nair?

4) This is surprisingly percent, SDI and DI friendly solely because hits 1-4 have set knockback and the knockback isn't enough to directionally affect it.

Just sayin.

 

[-Mars-]

Kaylo corrects people even on Christmas??? Woooooowwwwwwww

 

[KayLo!]

Kaylo corrects people even on Christmas??? Woooooowwwwwwww

Mars trolls even on Christmas??? Woooooowwwwwwww

 

[-Mars-]

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahah merrry christmas

 

[KayLo!]

You too, boo.

[Insert nair stuff.]

 

[nekokatsu]

i saw the video, and i use n air a lot, but in a defensive way.
one question N air autocancels 100% of the time, even if u input after doing an AC LK???
cuz i got trouble jumping after landing.


how this topic end up dying?!?!?!

 

[Kataefi]

It died because we were talking about it in a sticky. But yeah this is SDI/DI friendly I believe. Read their trajectory and followup from there.

 

[Kisamealex3]

Finally the Zelda boards have something new to discuss.

I've always used "autocancelled nair" to set up grabs and a free 12% from dash attack but, I never took the time to find out which hits and the opponent where.

I've found myself poking shields with nair and following up in the wrong direction XD.

 

[Kataefi]

Treat Nair like the hits suck the opponent in toward you. So whichever side you hit them on, they're going to go toward and passed Zelda and not away from her. Except on small characters where they pop up above you!

 

[nekokatsu]

and with the light chars, can u UP air after n air??? that would bo so cool xDDD, when i play again, i will give it a try, cuz i play a lot against MK.

 

[Kataefi]

It's not guaranteed. I think she trades with MK's dair if he attacks. But they can jump or airdodge much earlier iirc so this is a better option for them. I don't know any of the frame data.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

nair is sex moves.