Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Tetiro]

Tbh most of the internet is full of idiots trying to shame another group. That GameFAQs post makes me laugh as it's clear they have no knowledge of what goes on in the forum or the history behind the characters in question.

I hope any of them get in just to prove the haters wrong

 

[KMDP]

Ken Masters (Street Fighter) vs. Shadow the Hedgehog (Sonic) vs. Richter Belmont (Castlevania) vs. Dark Samus (Metroid) vs. Chrom (Fire Emblem) vs. Impa (Legend of Zelda) vs. Roxas (Kingdom Hearts) vs. Felix (Golden Sun) is a potential playable character match up we could get in a Smash game.

Like... not even those "Melee 2" fake rosters did anything THAT crazy. But we are 3/8th's of the way there and the first 2 are seeming like locks ATM.

This is like some deep deep deep MUGEN level roster stuff but it's all very possible.

Again, this is unprecedented. The "rules" have changed so much and it is insane. I don't think Smash speculation will ever be this crazy (or fun!) again!

Well, the Melee 2 fake rosters were crazy for a different reason. XD

 

[Nossnitro102]

When the hell did Gamefaqs become literally cancer? (Pardon the language I just remember it wasn't THIS bad before but maybe I've always been wrong?)

 

[Johnknight1]

When the hell did Gamefaqs become literally cancer? (Pardon the language I just remember it wasn't THIS bad before but maybe I've always been wrong?)

I remember it having so many bad apples back in 2000.

A segment of the fanbase of video game message boards will always be like that... without proper administration at least.

Such is (sadly) the accepted culture in most video gaming circles.

 

[Nossnitro102]

I remember it having so many bad apples back in 2000.

A segment of the fanbase of video game message boards will always be like that... without proper administration at least.

Such is (sadly) the accepted culture in most video gaming circles.

I don't remember it being that bad before. It had it's rough edges sure but this is getting out of hand. It's getting worse (still no 4chan or reddit though but still).
Edit: Messed up wording.

 

[Huanchi]

When the hell did Gamefaqs become literally cancer? (Pardon the language I just remember it wasn't THIS bad before but maybe I've always been wrong?)

3 years ago .. that was the moment i switched to 4chan couse that was less bad..and that something

Apparently he's changed his mind.

Spoiler

But who even knows if he's worth listening to anymore.

cant find this tweet . did he delete it?

edit. sorry double post..messed it up on mobile..

 

[Nossnitro102]

I thought 4chan was even worse to be honest. I always hear 4chan this 4chan that. Even bits from the spin off sites it spawned. They make 4chan out to be a cesspool that's bordering on...
Well.
The dark web. But I won't get into that.
Just wondering what happened to make these places so bad.
Reddit too though. It's also pretty bad from what I hear and almost as bad as 4chan even.
But I digress. Sorry for going off topic.
Edit: Spelling.

 

[Darkdarkness]

What Is this?

The list of the most wanted in the World?

Is very interesting to see

 

[Sabrewulf238]

What Is this?

The list of the most wanted in the World?

Is very interesting to see

It's the exit poll (amassing just under 45000 votes for the ballot. Although it's hard confirmed/disconfirmed characters removed. Still it's the closest thing we have to an accurate prediction of what the ballot result looked like. Though it includes a Japanese poll that had a very small sample size, so it's likely it's not very accurate to how people in Japan voted.

Though with 1.8 million votes on the ballot, how many people do we expect to have voted from Japan?

 

[ThatShadowLink]

I think that's a chart based on old data extrapolated with new data & inconsistent and small survey sizes. Don't get your hopes up over a chart that refuses to list sources.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I think that's a chart based on old data extrapolated with new data & inconsistent and small survey sizes. Don't get your hopes up over a chart that refuses to list sources.

I mean there are 23 (25 if you count Viridi and Captain Toads stage appearances) characters out of the top 61 on the exit poll that have already made an appearance in Ultimate.

Characters like Sukapon and Galacta Knight ranked on the exit poll too. (and they have an assist and alt costume now)

I don't think that's insignificant. Though I don't think anyone is claiming it's super accurate. It's just the best we have to work with.

 

[Cazzone]

C-could you count me in as a supporter?

I’m a Dixiefag with a passion, but her being very likely an echo made me lose a ton of hype towards her, sadly. I still want her, but I feel like Isaac would make me so much happier with his numerous moves to take from !

Sorry if my English is bad, I’m an italian boy, and today the Sun in Italy shines more than ever! Is this an omen?

 

[Diem]

Don't listen to leaks unless they're from people with proven track records, and even then don't take them as gospel. It's honestly easier to just predict what's going to happen than it is to parse through leaks and determine what's true or not.

I predicted a while ago that we'd get a Direct in August or September, and another in October or November, with each announcing two or three newcomers and one to three Echo Fighters. I was pretty right; we got one in August, with two newcomers, and three Echo Fighters. So that means we're probably getting another Direct in October with two or three newcomers and some more Echo Fighters.

My original predictions for characters after E3 were based on observations of how much support they had/how much of an impact they would leave, as well as the pattern of "blockbuster" characters like Mega Man, Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, Daisy, and Ridley. They were King K. Rool, Simon Belmont, Skull Kid, Geno, Banjo Kazooie, and Sora. I added Ashley to the list later when I realized how crazy people were for her. Remember, these newcomers are mostly coming from the ballot results in 2015. Elma, Spring Man, Octolings, Rex & Pyra? Very unlikely.

I got King K. Rool and Simon right, but Ashley was deconfirmed, which I think was a surprise to a lot of people. So that leaves Geno, Skull Kid, Banjo, and Sora. But I'm replacing my Sora guess with Isaac, because I just didn't know who Isaac was at all, let alone how much support he has overall, and Sora doesn't have as much support as I would've expected.

My money is currently on Skull Kid, Geno, and/or Isaac. Banjo Kazooie is probably going to be a DLC character (maybe with Master Chief too, depending on how crazy negotiations might get between Microsoft and Nintendo/Sakurai). We might get all three in one Direct, or one of them might be a DLC character.

The question is, how much support did Isaac get back in 2015, when the ballot was going on and the project plan for Ultimate was finished? Was it a long-standing request, like Geno, or was it something that cropped up mostly after 2015, like Waluigi? If the answer is the former, then I think you guys have a good shot.

Thought the bigger question is how much of an impact would his reveal have. How big was the Golden Sun franchise, compared to the other contenders? Are a few million people going to cheer or jump out of their seats, or is it just going to be a few thousand? The headliners for the previous two batches were Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, and King K. Rool. If Isaac isn't that caliber, then that presents a problem. But if he is, then it's likely. I wouldn't know; I know nothing about the character or the series.

Dark Samus was honestly shocking. Even after the evidence of Samus's Dark Samus alt color being removed, I didn't fully believe it, because she's not a very big character. Sakurai said that both she and Chrom were highly requested, but there's no way at all that Dark Samus was as requested as Chrom. I'm still trying to figure that out. So anything is possible, but keep expectations reasonable and objective.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Seems like someone who has a good amount of accurate predictions. Though, don't take their word for it.

It's strange that isaac is there in the corner, in a flattened way.


View attachment 158541

He gave K. Rool less than 20%.

 

[Billybae10K]

Maybe I missed this, but did anyone notice that the Loz twitter account is now currently only following 3 accounts?
Specifically: Nintendo Versus, Nintendo Of America... and Billybae10K

Billy, was he following you before?
If he wasn't, could that maybe be some kind of a hint, considering he would have to know how much you want Isaac in Smash and he was talking about Isaac possibly actually being in Smash before the weirdness with his twitter account happened.

Apologies if this was something that was brought up and discussed earlier, it's getting hard to keep track of all the pages when I get home from work, haha.

He's been following me since he made the account. I even brought it up in my latest video off-handedly. He's the real deal, at least - Though I have zero clue why he wants to follow me in the first place given my opinions on his leaks haven't been 100% positive.

 

[KMDP]

Don't listen to leaks unless they're from people with proven track records, and even then don't take them as gospel. It's honestly easier to just predict what's going to happen than it is to parse through leaks and determine what's true or not.

I predicted a while ago that we'd get a Direct in August or September, and another in October or November, with each announcing two or three newcomers and one to three Echo Fighters. I was pretty right; we got one in August, with two newcomers, and three Echo Fighters. So that means we're probably getting another Direct in October with two or three newcomers and some more Echo Fighters.

My original predictions for characters after E3 were based on observations of how much support they had/how much of an impact they would leave, as well as the pattern of "blockbuster" characters like Mega Man, Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, Daisy, and Ridley. They were King K. Rool, Simon Belmont, Skull Kid, Geno, Banjo Kazooie, and Sora. I added Ashley to the list later when I realized how crazy people were for her. Remember, these newcomers are mostly coming from the ballot results in 2015. Elma, Spring Man, Octolings, Rex & Pyra? Very unlikely.

I got King K. Rool and Simon right, but Ashley was deconfirmed, which I think was a surprise to a lot of people. So that leaves Geno, Skull Kid, Banjo, and Sora. But I'm replacing my Sora guess with Isaac, because I just didn't know who Isaac was at all, let alone how much support he has overall, and Sora doesn't have as much support as I would've expected.

My money is currently on Skull Kid, Geno, and/or Isaac. Banjo Kazooie is probably going to be a DLC character (maybe with Master Chief too, depending on how crazy negotiations might get between Microsoft and Nintendo/Sakurai). We might get all three in one Direct, or one of them might be a DLC character.

The question is, how much support did Isaac get back in 2015, when the ballot was going on and the project plan for Ultimate was finished? Was it a long-standing request, like Geno, or was it something that cropped up mostly after 2015, like Waluigi? If the answer is the former, then I think you guys have a good shot.

Thought the bigger question is how much of an impact would his reveal have. How big was the Golden Sun franchise, compared to the other contenders? Are a few million people going to cheer or jump out of their seats, or is it just going to be a few thousand? The headliners for the previous two batches were Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, and King K. Rool. If Isaac isn't that caliber, then that presents a problem. But if he is, then it's likely. I wouldn't know; I know nothing about the character or the series.

Dark Samus was honestly shocking. Even after the evidence of Samus's Dark Samus alt color being removed, I didn't fully believe it, because she's not a very big character. Sakurai said that both she and Chrom were highly requested, but there's no way at all that Dark Samus was as requested as Chrom. I'm still trying to figure that out. So anything is possible, but keep expectations reasonable and objective.

People have been requesting Isaac since before Brawl, but the requests have been more of a "peaks and troughs" kind of thing. When fans think Isaac has a chance, his support tends to peak, dying back down after the fact. This means his support is more quiet than characters like Ridley, K. Rool and Geno, since his fans only really talk about him around speculation periods; however, this also means the most recent peak (outside the current one) was when the ballot was happening.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

The question is, how much support did Isaac get back in 2015, when the ballot was going on and the project plan for Ultimate was finished? Was it a long-standing request, like Geno, or was it something that cropped up mostly after 2015, like Waluigi? If the answer is the former, then I think you guys have a good shot.

It's the former, people have been asking for Isaac since the Brawl days at least. (Melee was probably a bit early)

There was definitely a push for Isaac during the ballot voting. Yeah he wasn't as big as Ridley or King K. Rool but he was still there.

Also I would argue that reveals will probably become more niche as we go along. (with the exception of maybe another third party) The last Smash game had Bowser Jr., Shulk and Duck Hunt as their final reveals. They weren't big explosions at the end. Shulk was popular and requested but I don't think he was that popular. He wasn't Ridley or King K. Rool popular.

 

[TempestSurge]

Honestly I feel like it could be as simple as Sakurai combing through the old Melee and Brawl assests and remembering that Isaac's been a constant request over the years and he bumps him up to playable. No numbers games, no having to be in number one spot in two countries for insurance. Just that his model already exists in Brawl and there's been fan demand for him.

Even Sakurai says that Simon and Cloud have been requested despite it being kind of obvious that many of the more numerous requests would come from first party Nintendo characters anyways.

But if for some reason Sakurai hasn't been aware of Isaac being highly wanted, well after that tweet, he sure knows now.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Sorry for the spam, I just love making these.

 

[Diem]

People have been requesting Isaac since before Brawl, but the requests have been more of a "peaks and troughs" kind of thing. When fans think Isaac has a chance, his support tends to peak, dying back down after the fact. This means his support is more quiet than characters like Ridley, K. Rool and Geno, since his fans only really talk about him around speculation periods; however, this also means the most recent peak (outside the current one) was when the ballot was happening.

It's the former, people have been asking for Isaac since the Brawl days at least. (Melee was probably a bit early)

There was definitely a push for Isaac during the ballot voting. Yeah he wasn't as big as Ridley or King K. Rool but he was still there.

In that case I'm willing to upgrade it to likely alongside Skull Kid based on some of the weird evidence we've seen.

Because my top 3 I wanted were Chibi-Robo, Dark Samus, and Ridley. I got Ridley, which was a surprise because Sakurai finally changed his mind, I got Dark Samus because she was a good candidate for an Echo Fighter, but I'm under no illusion that I'm going to see Chibi-Robo anytime soon, because he's just not big enough (heh) to make sense for Ultimate. Maybe in a future game, depending on the future of his series and/or the whims of Sakurai, but not Ultimate. I'd be surprised for even an Assist Trophy at this point.

Not to throw shade, it's just the only example that comes to mind, but the fact that the thread for Lip is over 30 pages is baffling. That's a character for a puzzle game released in 1995 only in Japan? Even for a normal Smash game that'd be a long shot, but there's no way in hell it's happening for Ultimate when it's the age of Ridley, Simon, and King K. Rool. Ashley just got deconfirmed and she has way more international support and relevancy.

So I'll be rooting for you guys. I may not have any idea at all about this character or this series, but here's hoping two months from now that you'll all get to feel how I did when Dark Samus was announced.

 

[KMDP]

In that case I'm willing to upgrade it to likely alongside Skull Kid based on some of the weird evidence we've seen.

Because my top 3 I wanted were Chibi-Robo, Dark Samus, and Ridley. I got Ridley, which was a surprise because Sakurai finally changed his mind, I got Dark Samus because she was a good candidate for an Echo Fighter, but I'm under no illusion that I'm going to see Chibi-Robo anytime soon, because he's just not big enough (heh) to make sense for Ultimate. Maybe in a future game, depending on the future of his series and/or the whims of Sakurai, but not Ultimate. I'd be surprised for even an Assist Trophy at this point.

Not to throw shade, it's just the only example that comes to mind, but the fact that the thread for Lip is over 30 pages is baffling. That's a character for a puzzle game released in 1995 only in Japan? Even for a normal Smash game that'd be a long shot, but there's no way in hell it's happening for Ultimate when it's the age of Ridley, Simon, and King K. Rool. Ashley just got deconfirmed and she has way more international support and relevancy.

So I'll be rooting for you guys. I may not have any idea at all about this character or this series, but here's hoping two months from now that you'll all get to feel how I did when Dark Samus was announced.

Lip's series, "Panel de Pon", made it's way to the west in disguise: in the form of Pokémon Puzzle Challenge and Pokémon Puzzle League. Lip herself is a complete unknown to the general public, though. The only western references to her are in Smash, and almost all of them are oblique ones ("Lip's Stick", "Lip's Theme" and I think a Lip trophy in Melee). I think the DSi had a Panel de Pon release in the West? But it was a super cut-down one with just the bare minimum (i.e. no characters, just gameplay).

Arle Nadja, of the Puyo Puyo series, is almost in the same boat, and has a very similar history (released in the West in disguise, this time as Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine and Kirby's Avalanche), the big difference is that SEGA eventually wised up and just let Puyo Puyo come to the west mostly unchanged (starting, I believe, with "Puyo Pop Fever" on the GBA and DS).

It's nice to know we have "Non-supporter Supporters" now.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Lip's series, "Panel de Pon", made it's way to the west in disguise: in the form of Pokémon Puzzle Challenge and Pokémon Puzzle League. Lip herself is a complete unknown to the general public, though. The only western references to her are in Smash, and almost all of them are oblique ones ("Lip's Stick", "Lip's Theme" and I think a Lip trophy in Melee). I think the DSi had a Panel de Pon release in the West? But it was a super cut-down one with just the bare minimum (i.e. no characters, just gameplay).

Arle Nadja, of the Puyo Puyo series, is almost in the same boat, and has a very similar history (released in the West in disguise, this time as Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine and Kirby's Avalanche), the big difference is that SEGA eventually wised up and just let Puyo Puyo come to the west mostly unchanged (starting, I believe, with "Puyo Pop Fever" on the GBA and DS).

It's nice to know we have "Non-supporter Supporters" now.

Yeah, most of the support Lip gets I think is from fans of the games, and not necessarily Lip herself. Because Puzzle League has appeared quite a bit outside of Japan and is fairly popular. Tetris Attack was pretty well received as was Pokemon Puzzle League.

I think Lip is the most likely obscure character if we get one, but I don't expect an obscure character this time. The updated flowers makes me think we might get something like a stage or a Lip AT, though.

 

[KMDP]

Yeah, most of the support Lip gets I think is from fans of the games, and not necessarily Lip herself. Because Puzzle League has appeared quite a bit outside of Japan and is fairly popular. Tetris Attack was pretty well received as was Pokemon Puzzle League.

I think Lip is the most likely obscure character if we get one, but I don't expect an obscure character this time. The updated flowers makes me think we might get something like a stage or a Lip AT, though.

A Lip AT would be cool.

Dropping Puzzle Blocks everywhere. XD

Actually, a Tetris AT would be equally cool.

 

[Diem]

Lip's series, "Panel de Pon", made it's way to the west in disguise: in the form of Pokémon Puzzle Challenge and Pokémon Puzzle League. Lip herself is a complete unknown to the general public, though. The only western references to her are in Smash, and almost all of them are oblique ones ("Lip's Stick", "Lip's Theme" and I think a Lip trophy in Melee). I think the DSi had a Panel de Pon release in the West? But it was a super cut-down one with just the bare minimum (i.e. no characters, just gameplay).

Arle Nadja, of the Puyo Puyo series, is almost in the same boat, and has a very similar history (released in the West in disguise, this time as Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine and Kirby's Avalanche), the big difference is that SEGA eventually wised up and just let Puyo Puyo come to the west mostly unchanged (starting, I believe, with "Puyo Pop Fever" on the GBA and DS).

It's nice to know we have "Non-supporter Supporters" now.

Yeah, I'm like that for a lot of characters. Out of my current predictions, the only one that I have any history with is Skull Kid. Not that I don't have a large list of characters I'd really love to see, I just try to keep my expectations reasonable. Like, I know we're never getting Dimentio, so I'm not going to pretend like it might happen just because I want it. My top two (Chibi-Robo and Dark Samus) were more possible, but still unlikely. A miracle happened and I got one of them, which is the first time I've ever been completely pumped for a new character since I started playing Melee back in 2002 or so. I'm really hyped for Ridley, but not nearly as much as I am for Dark Samus.

Most of my excitement in Smash 4 was from other people's excitement. I like Mega Man, but I'm not as huge a fan as other people are. I never played Final Fantasy VII, but I loved how much it made people who played it get excited. Same for Bayonetta, King K. Rool, and even Chrom. Never played these games and don't have any emotional attachment, but I know other people do really care about these games and characters, just like I care about mine, so I'm glad they get to be happy. The only time I'll be against a character is if the majority of their support isn't very genuine, like with Waluigi, where it's mostly just a meme and only a small fraction of supporters have an honest emotional connection to the character.

Because hey, at least Isaac isn't another bloody Fire Emblem character.

 

[TempestSurge]

The more I think about, and as much as the anxiety would kill me, I'm starting to think that Isaac will be saved for a smash centered direct (one that will likely have two reveals again) as new series rep to Smash (with possible echo) just makes more sense for Sakurai to be there to talk about the character/series vs Isaac just being shown off at the end of a general direct. But who knows, either way the next character to be revealed will be interesting to say the least.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

If the pattern continues we'll alternate between long awaited / fan favorite and surprise / other characters. Inkling => Ridley => Simon => K.Rool.

 

[James Tutumbero]

Yeah, I'm like that for a lot of characters. Out of my current predictions, the only one that I have any history with is Skull Kid. Not that I don't have a large list of characters I'd really love to see, I just try to keep my expectations reasonable. Like, I know we're never getting Dimentio, so I'm not going to pretend like it might happen just because I want it. My top two (Chibi-Robo and Dark Samus) were more possible, but still unlikely. A miracle happened and I got one of them, which is the first time I've ever been completely pumped for a new character since I started playing Melee back in 2002 or so. I'm really hyped for Ridley, but not nearly as much as I am for Dark Samus.

Most of my excitement in Smash 4 was from other people's excitement. I like Mega Man, but I'm not as huge a fan as other people are. I never played Final Fantasy VII, but I loved how much it made people who played it get excited. Same for Bayonetta, King K. Rool, and even Chrom. Never played these games and don't have any emotional attachment, but I know other people do really care about these games and characters, just like I care about mine, so I'm glad they get to be happy. The only time I'll be against a character is if the majority of their support isn't very genuine, like with Waluigi, where it's mostly just a meme and only a small fraction of supporters have an honest emotional connection to the character.

Because hey, at least Isaac isn't another bloody Fire Emblem character.

You know, this actually makes me a little sad because I've never been hyped for a confirmed character. The characters I really want to be in Smash are underrated or unpopular like Isaac, Wonder-Red or Dillon, characters whose games I loved and I want them to be more appreciated. The only character who gets close to the sensation of actual hype is Greninja, cause I loved him in X and Y, but it was obvious he was going to be in Smash due to his popularity.
That is why I want Isaac to join the battle, because he would be the first character that made me jump off of my chair of excitement.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

You know, this actually makes me a little sad because I've never been hyped for a confirmed character. The characters I really want to be in Smash are underrated or unpopular like Isaac, Wonder-Red or Dillon, characters whose games I loved and I want them to be more appreciated. The only character who gets close to the sensation of actual hype is Greninja, cause I loved him in X and Y, but it was obvious he was going to be in Smash due to his popularity.
That is why I want Isaac to join the battle, because he would be the first character that made me jump off of my chair of excitement.

I think I can relate somewhat. I did get a character I really wanted in the last game (Shulk) but he had already been spoiled in a video so the impact of seeing his reveal trailer wasn't quite the same. Though I did have a bigger moment when they announced Mewtwo as dlc. That was exciting.

I don't really mind text "leaks" but it would bother me if we got a video leak of Isaac or Banjo & Kazooie.

I think Isaac would be my "walking around in a daze wondering what the heck just happened" reveal.

 

[James Tutumbero]

I think I can relate somewhat. I did get a character I really wanted in the last game (Shulk) but he had already been spoiled in a video so the impact of seeing his reveal trailer wasn't quite the same. Though I did have a bigger moment when they announced Mewtwo as dlc. That was exciting.

I don't really mind text "leaks" but it would bother me if we got a video leak of Isaac or Banjo & Kazooie.

I think Isaac would be my "walking around in a daze wondering what the heck just happened" reveal.

It must be hard to know your favorite character to join Smash has been spoiled by a real leak.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

It must be hard to know your favorite character to join Smash has been spoiled by a real leak.

Well I was still excited because Shulk was in.....but you do end up wondering what it would have been like if it had been totally out of the blue.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

You guys want to see this

https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosU...c_and_skull_kid_are_strongly_suggested_to_be/

Golden sun updated after years

And not to long after the direct and the rathalos picture resembling some golden sun.

 

[TempestSurge]

If the pattern continues we'll alternate between long awaited / fan favorite and surprise / other characters. Inkling => Ridley => Simon => K.Rool.

It also looks like the pattern is going new series rep and then old series (already in Smash).

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

By the way loz18

I don’t think you guys want to follow him anymore

In his opinion Isaac is not gonna be playable

And he claimed he knew about K. Rool that’s wrong he said the heroes vs villains thing makes it possible for K. Rool. It locked

And biggest evidence of not to follow him he claimed a gen 8 Pokemon is playable which doesn’t exist yet

 

[praline]

May I ask why ? It's a really great series, sadly not very well known in the west.

I just think the characters look ugly. I don’t really think they’d mesh well in the game.

 

[Metocles]

Don't listen to leaks unless they're from people with proven track records, and even then don't take them as gospel. It's honestly easier to just predict what's going to happen than it is to parse through leaks and determine what's true or not.

I predicted a while ago that we'd get a Direct in August or September, and another in October or November, with each announcing two or three newcomers and one to three Echo Fighters. I was pretty right; we got one in August, with two newcomers, and three Echo Fighters. So that means we're probably getting another Direct in October with two or three newcomers and some more Echo Fighters.

My original predictions for characters after E3 were based on observations of how much support they had/how much of an impact they would leave, as well as the pattern of "blockbuster" characters like Mega Man, Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, Daisy, and Ridley. They were King K. Rool, Simon Belmont, Skull Kid, Geno, Banjo Kazooie, and Sora. I added Ashley to the list later when I realized how crazy people were for her. Remember, these newcomers are mostly coming from the ballot results in 2015. Elma, Spring Man, Octolings, Rex & Pyra? Very unlikely.

I got King K. Rool and Simon right, but Ashley was deconfirmed, which I think was a surprise to a lot of people. So that leaves Geno, Skull Kid, Banjo, and Sora. But I'm replacing my Sora guess with Isaac, because I just didn't know who Isaac was at all, let alone how much support he has overall, and Sora doesn't have as much support as I would've expected.

My money is currently on Skull Kid, Geno, and/or Isaac. Banjo Kazooie is probably going to be a DLC character (maybe with Master Chief too, depending on how crazy negotiations might get between Microsoft and Nintendo/Sakurai). We might get all three in one Direct, or one of them might be a DLC character.

The question is, how much support did Isaac get back in 2015, when the ballot was going on and the project plan for Ultimate was finished? Was it a long-standing request, like Geno, or was it something that cropped up mostly after 2015, like Waluigi? If the answer is the former, then I think you guys have a good shot.

Thought the bigger question is how much of an impact would his reveal have. How big was the Golden Sun franchise, compared to the other contenders? Are a few million people going to cheer or jump out of their seats, or is it just going to be a few thousand? The headliners for the previous two batches were Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, and King K. Rool. If Isaac isn't that caliber, then that presents a problem. But if he is, then it's likely. I wouldn't know; I know nothing about the character or the series.

Dark Samus was honestly shocking. Even after the evidence of Samus's Dark Samus alt color being removed, I didn't fully believe it, because she's not a very big character. Sakurai said that both she and Chrom were highly requested, but there's no way at all that Dark Samus was as requested as Chrom. I'm still trying to figure that out. So anything is possible, but keep expectations reasonable and objective.

I'd like to weigh in here too. Isaac support was definitely around in 2015. I was there and I remember it. It was also there before Sm4sh and even leading up into Brawl. The chances were slim for Brawl but support drummed up for Sm4sh was really momentous - I thought he had a real shot last time. The ballot is the #1 reason to feel optimistic here. Asking for unique and single vote smash reps from the fans brought all the Isaac support out of the woodwork. I voted, as did many others. We voted because we all felt shafted from Sm4sh but very hopeful that 1. He wasn't actually in Sm4sh 2. He could possibly be worked in as DLC.

It's why I believe the exit polling numbers. Even if Isaac wasn't #2 behind K. Rool, it wouldn't have wavered too much from that position. The worst you can say is #3? #4? GS1 and GS2 both sold over a million copies each, so you know for sure Golden Sun has a serious fanbase. That's not even to mention the people that didn't grow up or weren't even born back when Golden Sun was released. People find out about it, play the game and just get hooked. The main reason he's so popular is that most of us know how Smash revives a franchise. Just like you have no clue who he is right now. If he were a character in Smash, he'd be chosen by someone who also has no clue about him and they'd take the initiative to find out. From there, it's just a ripple effect. It just happens with Smash too often for its own good. I'm actually still quite baffled today why it's even taken this long to put in a single character because GS definitely deserves to have a Smash character.

 

[Billybae10K]

By the way loz18

I don’t think you guys want to follow him anymore

In his opinion Isaac is not gonna be playable

And he claimed he knew about K. Rool that’s wrong he said the heroes vs villains thing makes it possible for K. Rool. It locked

And biggest evidence of not to follow him he claimed a gen 8 Pokemon is playable which doesn’t exist yet

Can you send a source on him stating a Gen 8 Pokemon would be playable? It's well known that loz has recently gone into speculation, as opposed to leaking, so you could be reading one of his speculation posts as a leak. He also deleted a tweet the other day stating he feels Isaac could happen, so you're a little behind in terms of the loz news.

 

[Pwnapplez]

You know, I keep wondering, what if Skull Kid is actually a boss for the new story mode? But then I realized, WHAT IF...Skull Kid is actually part of Young Link's final smash?!?! Doesn't anybody find it strange that we still haven't seen his final smash yet? We assume that he might have the Fierce Deity Mask, but what if it's a combination of Fierce Deity AND Skull Kid?!? Skull Kid launches the moon at the characters and Young Link (as the Fierce Deity) slashes at the moon cutting it in half, but also hurts the players. If you've played Hyrule Warriors, you'll get what I'm talking about.

Just a theory that came to me.

I mean look at Hyrule Warriors
https://youtu.be/X_axY8sa9Pc?t=4m49s

It could happen

guys... I noticed something, if Isaac got deconfirmed... what will happen to Newcomer Speculation? Like... outside us we have Geno and Skull kid going high in voices... if all 3 disapears what will happen with this place?

People would move on to the others Banjo, Bananna Dee, other Nintendo Ips

While I agree, there is always the possibility his seemingly wild opinions are based on stuff he's heard or knows but doesn't have enough evidence to release them as "leaks". Or if he's just injecting his wants or feelings into his posts.

Edit: Who am I kidding? loz seems like he'd blab the second he thinks he has information.

Loz got his info from someone who was setting up the demo and sets at E3

The CEO 4chan leak is also fake, no way in hell any NOA employ would datamine the switch and bring it back. At those events the switchs are under heavy servalance by the team

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Can you send a source on him stating a Gen 8 Pokemon would be playable? It's well known that loz has recently gone into speculation, as opposed to leaking, so you could be reading one of his speculation posts as a leak. He also deleted a tweet the other day stating he feels Isaac could happen, so you're a little behind in terms of the loz news.

There youn are all opinions

 

[NoOtherPersona]

There youn are all opinions

We know about this already he wasn't leaking anything when he said Isaac wouldn't be in it was speculation he changed his mind anyways so that post means nothing

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

You know, this actually makes me a little sad because I've never been hyped for a confirmed character. The characters I really want to be in Smash are underrated or unpopular like Isaac, Wonder-Red or Dillon, characters whose games I loved and I want them to be more appreciated. The only character who gets close to the sensation of actual hype is Greninja, cause I loved him in X and Y, but it was obvious he was going to be in Smash due to his popularity.
That is why I want Isaac to join the battle, because he would be the first character that made me jump off of my chair of excitement.

I feel the pain buddy ! The only character that got me super excited for smash was Shulk. And it's not that I really like Shulk, I wanted Fiora, but I was happy for some Xenoblade representation in smash. I'm happy for the fans of K.Rool, Ridley and all but I've yet to experience a character I really want in Smash.