Let’s Get Better: A Mewtwo Theory Thread

[WoW Tarv]

Hi all,

I’m noticing an unfortunate lack of Mewtwo in top 8 at most tournaments. I believe this character has a lot to offer and has a lot of untapped and under utilized resources that could make him a very viable threat. So I say let’s put our heads together and really mine this character for all he’s worth.

In the earliest days of a game I understand that we’re all just exploring the character, finding new techniques etc but I feel like theorycrafting and more importantly the implementation of those theories proven to be true is ultimately the most beneficial thing to a character.

Obviously I’m not an expert on Mewtwo and so this isn’t going to be a “Tarv gives advice on Mewtwo”. I merely want to get to discussing him and developing the character. It’s been proven that sharing knowledge and growing collectively is ultimately better for competition and personal growth.

If you’re still reading at this point I’m going to pretend you’re at least intrigued by the idea in some capacity.

From what I gather so far Mewtwo has a very brutal punish game but doesn’t deal with pressure very well himself. Likewise he’s not aggressive per se but can apply a steady pressure with the right spacing without actually attacking the opponent. More intelligent and more skilled smashers than I have theorycrafted on this kind of “pressuring without attacking” (PPMD, Cactuar, KirbyKazs, Mow etc). Granted this isn’t unique to Mewtwo but it could be a way to optimize his gameplay.

A quick disclaimer: I’m going to use a lot of melee analogies because that’s what I know.

Anyways, I can see Mewtwo thriving in a style of play similar to how PPMD played Marth in melee or how Armada plays peach. They control the space, pressure, and punish relentlessly. Kind of like a... mobile zoning deal? Is that a thing?

These are just my opinion and I’m throwing ideas out there. Please call me out if I’m wrong but I think this should be more about discussion than a debate.

Anyways, hopefully some people will get some use of this and at the very least we’ll have some good Mewtwo conversation along the way.

 

[Pgirts]

Hot take: Mewtwo is currently the most overrated character in the game.

That's not to say that he's bad. He's not. He just lacks options for getting out of pressure. His large hurt box, light weight, and ESPECIALLY the new dodge mechanics make him straight-up combo food. I think he'll end up being upper-mid tier.

Fair and neutral air dodge are probably his only real options to escape pressure, and even then they're highly situational.

Mewtwo should fish his opponents with Shadow Ball and his tilts. Keep them from initiating pressure. Forward tilt is also an effective kill move.

Also run away alot. Mewtwo has a great dash. Dart in and out, and punish accordingly.

When you're Mewtwo, you're a glass cannon. Kill quickly or die quickly.

 

[Browny]

For some reason, Mewtwo players have been going rambo in this game, constantly dashing in all the time. That is the exact opposite of what made him top tier in smash 4, which was all about the usual 'whiff punishing'.

If you watched a video of a luigi player who did nothing but short hop fairs in an attempt to wall out the opponent, you would rightfully criticise them for using a poor playstale, and they should main a sword user instead.

When I see videos of Mewtwo players running in like its a 2 minute match or something, I feel the exact same. Go and play Fox if thats what you want to do. If you want to win with Mewtwo, keep your distance, use shadowballs often and for the love of god, go out there are edgeguard and dont waste your time trying to 2-frame a ledgesnap.

 

[WoW Tarv]

Hot take: Mewtwo is currently the most overrated character in the game.

That's not to say that he's bad. He's not. He just lacks options for getting out of pressure. His large hurt box, light weight, and ESPECIALLY the new dodge mechanics make him straight-up combo food. I think he'll end up being upper-mid tier.

Fair and neutral air dodge are probably his only real options to escape pressure, and even then they're highly situational.

Mewtwo should fish his opponents with Shadow Ball and his tilts. Keep them from initiating pressure. Forward tilt is also an effective kill move.

Also run away alot. Mewtwo has a great dash. Dart in and out, and punish accordingly.

When you're Mewtwo, you're a glass cannon. Kill quickly or die quickly.

I agree with what you said about keeping your opponents at bay with SB and tilts. It seems like most of Mewtwo is waiting for your opponent to over extend themselves and then punishing them.

His light weight definitely works against him but I’m thinking he could use a combination of air dodge and teleport to escape juggles. Also I’ve had a lot of success with Nair out of shield for dealing with pressure. Either way he definitely seems like a character who thrives on the ground.

I definitely agree that he’s a glass cannon though.

For some reason, Mewtwo players have been going rambo in this game, constantly dashing in all the time. That is the exact opposite of what made him top tier in smash 4, which was all about the usual 'whiff punishing'.

If you watched a video of a luigi player who did nothing but short hop fairs in an attempt to wall out the opponent, you would rightfully criticise them for using a poor playstale, and they should main a sword user instead.

When I see videos of Mewtwo players running in like its a 2 minute match or something, I feel the exact same. Go and play Fox if thats what you want to do. If you want to win with Mewtwo, keep your distance, use shadowballs often and for the love of god, go out there are edgeguard and dont waste your time trying to 2-frame a ledgesnap.

I cannot agree with this more. This might be kind of out there, but I think he has the tools to be one of the best edgeguarders(?) in the game.

Also, his reach is decently long which we should be able to use to our advantage in most matches.

 

[Rozznow]

Some ideas or important things with mewtwo I've come up with, noticed or seen:

Quickly grab the stage ledge by teleporting to the ledge as soon as you run off stage.
Walljump on the stage and bair when trying to get back on stage instead of grabbing the ledge. Don't know if this works, havn't tried. Just found it while messing around.
When playing maps with platforms, shorthop -> down-b might confuse opponents which could lead to hard punishes.
The effect of side-b is in effect quite a while.
As far as I am aware, never use down-grab, I havn't found any use for it yet.
Bait out air-dodges with shadowballs in order to punish with.

Note: I don't have any experience with very good players, therefore some of the "ideas" might be completely useless. We'll see I guess.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hot take: Mewtwo is currently the most overrated character in the game.

That's not to say that he's bad. He's not. He just lacks options for getting out of pressure. His large hurt box, light weight, and ESPECIALLY the new dodge mechanics make him straight-up combo food. I think he'll end up being upper-mid tier.

Fair and neutral air dodge are probably his only real options to escape pressure, and even then they're highly situational.

Mewtwo should fish his opponents with Shadow Ball and his tilts. Keep them from initiating pressure. Forward tilt is also an effective kill move.

Also run away alot. Mewtwo has a great dash. Dart in and out, and punish accordingly.

When you're Mewtwo, you're a glass cannon. Kill quickly or die quickly.

Jab helps getting out of pressure. Teleport could also allow for escapes.

In general, Mewtwo has to adapt being way more offensive. The old playstyle of 4 just doesn't work. Habitually, Mewtwo players need to adapt to this a lot. I know this all too well, cause with Diddy it's more or less the same thing.

Besides, Mewtwo has another kill throw now, Shadow Ball does a whopping 32% damage when not stale, he lives longer, recovery is still reliable, edgeguarding is amazing, JAB is hugely improved... You are underselling Mewtwo quite a bit I feel.

 

[Browny]

I cannot agree with this more. This might be kind of out there, but I think he has the tools to be one of the best edgeguarders(?) in the game.

Also, his reach is decently long which we should be able to use to our advantage in most matches.

He does

I've said it for a while now, but the 'meta' will develop most significantly in the edgeguarding department. A lot of people are still busy trying to 2-frame recoveries when a number of characters are forced to airdodge or die if someone goes after them offstage. Shadowball as someone is recovering - dash offstage and punish their airdodge is more effective than it was in smash 4 because characters can't recover from as low as they used to, so they don't have as much leeway to delay their airdodges.

Between that and simply bair spamming, a lot of characters are forced to go very low to avoid mewtwo and characters who used to be able to reach the ledge from the magnifying glass below like luigi and fox, can't do that anymore.

 

[Pgirts]

Jab helps getting out of pressure. Teleport could also allow for escapes.

In general, Mewtwo has to adapt being way more offensive. The old playstyle of 4 just doesn't work. Habitually, Mewtwo players need to adapt to this a lot. I know this all too well, cause with Diddy it's more or less the same thing.

Besides, Mewtwo has another kill throw now, Shadow Ball does a whopping 32% damage when not stale, he lives longer, recovery is still reliable, edgeguarding is amazing, JAB is hugely improved... You are underselling Mewtwo quite a bit I feel.

I don't think I am. His jab is quite slow (6 frames, unless I'm mistaken) and has poor range. Teleport also has start up and a lot of end lag, making it a risky option.

He also doesn't live longer, either. The majority of kill moves received power boosts, which overtakes his weight increase. And again, the new dodge mechanics hit him hard.

Again, not saying he's bad. He's very good offensively, and has a great edge guard game. Defensively, however, he's awful. Which seems to be by design.

 

[Deleted member]

My wish is to see him getting an alt of his armour from the first movie in a Smash game.