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Ledgedash options?

CtrlC

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 20, 2014
Messages
5
So I was messing around in debug mode and discovered that GDubs actually has a fairly respectable ledgedash. Specifically, jab and grab seem to be completely covered by residual ledge invincibility, and I'd imagine ftilt might also work (although I didn't test it). Dtilt also works but mostly in a theoretical sense - if you're frame-perfect on every single part of the ledgedash (including the initial release from the 8 frames of ledge grab lag) you can wavedash into a crouch and have the dtilt hitbox come out literally the frame after ledge invincibility wears off. Is this practical tech or am I wasting my time?
 

cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
invincible ledgedashes are certainly useful; how does it compared to ledgejump waveland though? If it offers useful invincibility to a greater extent to the ledgehop method, then it's certainly desirable.

The benefit of ledgehop waveland though is that it's far more consistent due to lower amount of inputs.

For those unaware: the ledgehop can be acted out of on its first airborne frame (which varies between characters, so I'm not sure on G&W's). This means that you can airdodge on the first available frame into the stage and waveland, carrying your ledge invincibility with you. This is really useful for Snake given that it's his only way to carry invincibility onto the stage, but he only gets two active frames from it (which is still enough to shield and to dodge attacks—12 frames (10 from the waveland) is a lot of freedom.
It basically goes like this:
1. c-stick up buffers ledgejump.
2. 11~15 frames (a guess at the ranges) later, the character becomes airborne.
3. airdodge down or diagonally into the stage to waveland.
4. Airdodging back is the only conceivable way to SD in this method.

Advantages of course are:
1. 100% success as acting on the FAF after the ledgegrab
2. Less chance of a suicide due to poor timing
3. Potentially, greater invincibility
4. For some characters, this also allows for Aerial Interrupts on side platforms (Snake and Samus confirmed)

I'd test this immediately if I didn't have class in the next hour.
 
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CtrlC

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 20, 2014
Messages
5
I just tested it and my tentative conclusion is that it's about a frame slower than ledgedashing. Unless I'm messing up inputs, the fastest you can act out of a wavedash onto stage out of a ledgejump is frame 25 (8 for ledge grab lag, 12 for the uninterruptible ledge jump animation, and 5 for wavedashing, tested by holding shield the entire time). No idea on ledgedashing, but I know if you do it frame-perfectly into a dtilt the hitbox comes out on the first frame the blue overlay goes away.
 

Metmetm3t

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,124
Location
Sunny Mobile, AL
G&W's ledge jump is pretty terrible for this tech. For starters, he actually starts slightly below the stage, so he can SD if you attempt to AD diagonally on the first possible frame. After that, he moves fast and almost completely vertically. This means that he's only even near the ground for a few frames and only one frame will get you a decent waveland. By the time it's over he's high enough to waveland onto a dreamland platform, which is some neat tech in it's own way, but for just pulling off safe effective ledge dashes with G&W it's much more practical to do a traditional ledge dash.
 

cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Good stuff, thanks met! I really haven't devoted much time to G&W but had an intuition that ledgejump could be useful. Glad to be proven wrong :)
 
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