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Ledge walljumping

Doraki

Smash Lord
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I was about to post this in the Fox sections, but since it can be helpful to more characters, I have to put it here..

Ledge wall jumping is walljumping instantly from a ledge you're holding on without using you second jump.
A while ago (when ledge walljumping was last discussed), people were saying that you had to do some kind of trick while letting go of the edge, like tilt the stick to let go then smashing it on the next frame to walljump.

Ledge walljumping is done solely by smashing the stick away from the stage while you're holding to an edge.
The trick is that you have to do something before to "activate" it.
The ways to activate the ledge walljump depends on the character you're using and on the ledge you want to walljump from. For example, it is known that ledge walljumping is "easy" with C.Falcon on the walls of Mushroom Kingdom II (though sometimes he'll just let go of the edge in the normal way when you smash back)

I know almost nothing as to how activating the ledge walljump works in general, though I'm feeling it mostly involves smashing the stick and jumping along the wall you want to wall jump on.
(perhaps, missing a walljump.. )

I think I've found a way to do it that'll work everytime on FD's ledge, with Fox, Mario, Pichu, and Young Link :

Grab the ledge, let go (with or without fastfalling), double jump towards the wall so that at one point you'll be sliding along it (this is important), and so that you catch the ledge again as soon as possible in your double jump (thus you have to double jump at a certain height, and you have to take the risk to double jump too low and miss the edge)
While grabbing the ledge, smash away with the control stick (It isn't always necessary but if you don't do it, it might not work).
Then, you're ready to ledge wall jump : you have to smash the stick away in 1 frame to wall jump (if not, it'll start registering it as a tilt and you'll let go of the edge normally)
Also, I think you can hold on the ledge as long as you want before walljumping.

This is not the only way to get a ledgewalljump, I got it once on FD's ledge after grabbing the ledge with a Firefox. It's also possible to ledge walljump, shine, turn around, fall a bit, double jump, grab the edge, ledge walljump again etc..
This won't work on FoD, Pokemon Stadium, Yoshi Story and doesn't work with Falco, Sheik, and Samus.
I don't know at all what's possible with those characters or on the other stages, but I still want to know how this exactly works.

I tested all of that with the develop mode of the debug menu with AR, you can test it easily with it, you'll see that it works.
Even though there are differences between the develop mode and the normal play, I don't think it would change in this case, and I've been doing it without develop mode, see http://captainlama.free.fr/ssbm/Ledge%20Walljumping.wmv

Knowing that, some players should be able to ledge walljump consistently on FD.

And I hope someone'll eventually explain how this works so that one can know exacty what he can do in all circumstances.
 

Barogrei

Smash Apprentice
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Jun 10, 2003
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I've actually worked a little into the ledge walljumping (I called it ledgekicking), but i never actually could figure out the exact technique of it as you have, congrats. That vid is the most fluid usage of ledgekicking i've ever seen.
 

Bakuryu

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Theres sorta a way falco can do it your have to wall jump off the bottom area of FD and he wall jumps high enough to do his phantom to the ledge or firefox, might not be as useful though.
 

LateNightShopping

Smash Rookie
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yeah man, i did do a little bit of wall jumping but wow, i never could never get the technique. I would get some here and there, but wow man you're awsome!
 

Doraki

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On the vertical walls of Mushroom Kingdom II, Fourside and Hyrule, it's easy to get it since the walls extend very far below the ledge. You just have to jump or double jump into the wall so that you slide along it, grab the ledge with a firefox (or with the jump or double jump just like on FD), and you'll be able to walljump.

You almost never have to smash the stick while you're grabbing the ledge, but still, I think you need to do smething like this at least once before you can ledge walljump.

On stages like FoD, PS and YS the wall under the ledge is very short, which probably makes ledge walljumping near to impossible for Fox. On Kirby64 the wall is not exactly vertical too.

Pichu is so small that he can do it on FD, FoD, YS, Kirby64, PS (though not on BF).
OMG PICHU IS BROKEN.
 

Bazuzu

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The only time I really get use out of ledge walljumping is with Falco. If you knock an opponent off of the edge on FD, you can WD off the ledge and grab it. The I just let go and use my double jump and smash the stick away from the ledge. This makes Falco tech off of the ledge and sends him outward toward the opponent. Ususally The opponent is on their 3rd jump about this time, at which point I will use my Foward B attack, turning the Phantasm onto a spike/edgehog, cause if you're aimed correctly Falco will grab the edge again.
 

uber_n00b

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Um...someone just redirected me here from a thread about this, and it is possible with falco, but I don't know how...does anyone have any new information on this?
 

Dalal

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Thanks for this information Doraki,

This whole time I've been 'ledge walljumping', or at least I thought I was, by dropping down, then double jumping, and then smashing away. Because of this inefficient method, the only thing I could do was wall jump shine, which isn't as useful as the techniques shown in your wall jump video. With the real Ledge Wall Jump, I will now be able to preserve my double jump, making it possible to use any aerial while in the air. And for Falco's, you can use the Down + A to spike. You are the best. Thanks for this amazing technique.

I have one question though: When you ledge wall jump, in the video, you'll notice that you are invincible for a short time while performing the wall-jumped aerial. My question is, is this the invincibility from hanging on the ledge, or is it from wall jumping?
 

Dalal

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Hmm ... how does this thing work? Perhaps if we can understand why this "glitch" occurs, we can find more efficient ways of achieving the same result.

My theory: When you wall jump off a wall normally, the game judges whether or not walljumping is enabled based on your control stick. If it is pointing more or less horizontally towards the wall, and then you hold back, it will register as a wall jump. However, if you are holding nothing and merely sliding along the wall, when you press back, it will not register as a jump. Therefore, I think the way it works here is that when you slide along the wall while holding a direction towards the wall, the game says that walljumping is enabled. The game is just waiting for you to press 'back' so you walljump. However, what happens here is you grab the ledge while walljumping is enabled. Therefore, when you press back on the stick, it walljumps. Understand? It seems like a legitimate theory... Now, based on this theory, I can think of many new experiments to try in the game. Here's some of them that I have yet to try:

1) Wavedashing backwards in the direction of the ledge, but before you hang on the ledge, immediately smash towards the stage, and then away at the correct time. This might result in a wall jump, based on how the game registers an action as a wall jump...

2) If the above does not work, then another alternate would be to wavefall, and while you are wavefalling and sliding across the thin ledge, smash towards and then away. To wavefall on Final Destination, simply wavedash backwards onto the ledge, but hold R or L and Down. As soon as you see your character assume the tumbling animation, smash the two control stick directions. It might work.

3) Now, here is a way to maybe get the ledge walljump activation extremely consistent. Simply drop from the ledge by pressing down, and then at the correct moment, when you are at an appropriate distance underneath the ledge, smash towards the ledge + X, and keep the 'towards' direction on the stick pressed as you grab the ledge. Based on my theory as to how the game judges whether to walljump or not, I think this should work.

I'll try all this tomorrow. I have to go to sleep right now. I'm tired.

Also, Doraki, have you perfected the method with Fox on Final Destination? Are you as consistent with this as you are with wavedashing. I tried it just now and can only manage a ledge-kick (I like this term) once every 4 or 5 tries. Sometimes, I get so inconsistent that I can't perform one for 30 or 40 tries (I could be exaggerating). So what I'm asking here is ... if possible, can you provide some more tips for ledge jumping with Fox in the same way you did on Final Destination in the video? I'm having some problems with this and I really want to be 100% sure everytime if I've activated the ledge walljump or not. Why? Because, if I try to perform an aerial immediately after pressing back, and it turns out the walljump wasn't activated, then ... well, I would be commiting suicide, because the opponent would make it back to the stage, and it would be almost impossible to recover... To put it simply, I need some help with this, if your method is 100% consistent.

Thanks,

- Dalal
 

Alex13

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In Hyrule Temple you can pull this technique off of just about every ledge with Captain Falcon by just smashing the control stick the other way while hanging...
 

S-88

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Its SORTVE easier with Cap. Falcon, but his just goes higher than the others. Fox's is short, sweet, and to the point. A good stage to practice on is Fourside too.
 

goblin

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i managed to get this semi-consistently with fox on FD. however, as doraki said, i don't think its possible for falco.

things i realized u can do after the walljump + 2nd jump:
it is sorta neat with fox, tho, u can do almost any aerial (except fair i think) and still make it back.
or, u can shine, turn around, bair and still recover. pretty neat.

for c.falcon u can jump and do a dair. seems like it would be effective in real play.
 

swordgard

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I Have The Perfect Way To Do 1 Frame Jump Instant!!!!!


Use C-stick To Get Off Ledge While Normal Stixck To Walljump.

Its way easier for those who have slow tumbs. :dizzy:
 

Doraki

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I've seen someone doing it with Falco on FD this week-end but I don't remember what had happened before. It wasn't just drop and grab again.
I'm pretty sure you have to slide along the wall, but then again, it sometimes won't be enough.

For example, I've done it with jump off, try to bair a ganon, miss, double jump aua, *kills the ganon*, during that double jump I slide along the wall, then I use firefox to recover and grab the ledge.. and ledge walljump..

I'm used to it to the point when I always know when I slide along the wall.. :
Sometimes the opponents throw me off the stage, I double jump, grab, and ledge wall jumps away :p
Trust your instincts XD

As for invincibility frames, I'll check that soon.. I ledgewalljumped shinespiked a marth above the ledge who was up-b ing just before I spiked him, I think I was invincible because he should have hit me :/

Dalal, I almost get it all the time, the only time it doesn't work is when I want to walljump dair, and I drop and fastfall and die instantly XD.
I never smash the stick during the 'grabbing ledge' animation because it just works most of the time without, but I think I should if I wanted to do a risky thing like that.
 

goblin

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falco eh? man if u found that guy and figured out a good way to figure it out, u would be a smash god.

yea and on invincibility... between grabbing the ledge and walljumping u probably get invincibility for a good second or so.
 

goblin

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ok ive been tryinig this out with fox. nd honestly, im not sure why this would be a better technique than just a sh off the stage-> whatever u want. seems a lot faster and presents less risk of a suicide.

Basically, what makes this a better/smarter option?

(ok maybe some invincibility... but anything else?)


(double post for a bump. had to do it.)
 

Doraki

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Well, you do have invincibility frames, either from grabbing the ledge (26 or so I don't remember) or from the walljump (14).
If you do the walljump as soon as possible after grabbing, it might be useful for a shine spike.

Also, the ledgewalljump goes a tiny bit farther and higher than a short hop.

Ledgewalljumping may be useful when you're being edgeguarded, it's one more option you can have.
 

Doraki

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If you're going to do that, you should rather do a ledgewavedash with the invincibility frames from grabbing the ledge.
 

W_Star

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When I play Samus it's useful to charge your beam all the way up then wall jump and then slighty hit b over and Samus will turn the other way and blast them. After that just lay bombs and air dodge and hook onto edge.
 

S-88

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It would proably be most useful to Samus because her bomb jump recovery sends her down a little bit. You could wall jump off the stage and get back on. Or, you could use the grapple, but walljumping would be less expected...
 

Blazey

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Uhhhh, dude, I can get ledge walljumping with Falco 50 percent of the time. It's really hard though, and you need to concentrate alot. Well that's for me anyway. I used to think you need to concentrate heaps for wavedashing. I think if I practice it enough, I'll be able to use it whenever I want.
 

S-88

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Oh yeah, when u first discover wavedashing it takes concentration to do it, but after u practice doing it, u can do it 99% of the time. Just reserve one afternoon or weekend for practicing WDing, u'll get good at it in no time. It's harder to train yourself to use it in battles instinctivly though.

-Back on Topic...
Falco can certainly walljump, and its better than most others too. Probably cause he has such a high jump...
 

Doraki

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forblaze71 said:
Uhhhh, dude, I can get ledge walljumping with Falco 50 percent of the time. It's really hard though, and you need to concentrate alot. Well that's for me anyway. I used to think you need to concentrate heaps for wavedashing. I think if I practice it enough, I'll be able to use it whenever I want.
on which stage, and how ?
50% of the time is funny.
 

Blazey

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Oh yeah, when u first discover wavedashing it takes concentration to do it, but after u practice doing it, u can do it 99% of the time. Just reserve one afternoon or weekend for practicing WDing, u'll get good at it in no time. It's harder to train yourself to use it in battles instinctivly though.
Just incase anyone gets the wrong idea, that was me a few months ago. I can now, like most people, wavedash on a dime.

Anyway. I practice it on Fountain of Dreams. The way I practice, I set the stock to 99 and make player 2 human and Falco aswell. When I'm nearly dead as player 1, I just swap controllers and have another 95 turns at it as player 2.

You just drop down, jump up and into the side of the stage, then jerk the analogue stick to the opposite side, doing a walljump. Immediately after you start the walljump, you need to do dair with c-stick. Just go read bornfidelity.com's guide on Falco. He explains it really well.
 

Blazey

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You just need practice, dude. So far, I can't really aim where I want to jump from, just so long as I hit the wall and jump off it, I don't care.
 

Kubuu

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The only thing that I have noticed about the wall jump that might be of any use is that you have to figure out when your character is touching the wall in their hanging animation. For example, when I use the walljump off the ledge with young link, there is a certain part of his animation where he kicks his legs towards the stage like he's trying to get back up a little. Anytime he does that part of the animation, I have been able to 100% get the ledgejump off. So my main goal was to figure out how soon after grabbing the ledge does he go into that animation, if that made any sense at all... If not, I will try to make of vid of it sometime.
 

Doraki

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Forblaze, Bakuryuu and S-88, you're talking about simple plain walljumping, this thread is about grabbing the ledge and doing a walljump directly from that, without using any second jump.

Kubuu, are you implying that younglink can ledgewalljump anytime he's holding on a ledge because you can just wait for that part of the animation ?
 

PacStrife

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I just wanted to say thanks for this discovery! I can do it now with mario and although i havent really found any practical uses for it, besides ownage with a ledgewalljumped spike, it's still really interesting. I'm definatly going to add this little trick to my game. THANKS.
 

uber_n00b

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There has to be some way to do this other then the sliding trick...has anyone done any experimentation, especially with falco?
 

SNKE

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wow this topic was made a long time ago, but I just found it right now, its ok, I just wanted to say thanks to Doraki, I love this technique...you are really amazing
 

Doraki

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I've just seen someone do it with Capt Falcon on FD. Again, I don't remember what he was doing before.
You might have to use moves that shorten your body when the wall is too small for you.
 

Reik

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I found out a way to consistently instant walljump with Captain Falcon on FD. ^^

It doesn't require any ramping of the stage or anything. Once you're hanging on the ledge, smash the control stick back very quickly and immediately press jump. It's at practically the same time.

Too bad I can only get it to work on FD and only with Captain Falcon. :ohwell:
 
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