Ledge Teching for Beginners

[oats_]

Hello everyone. As a new player, one thing that has always eluded me was ledge teching. Every guide I saw said you just smash DI into the wall and tech it, but none of them were really good at explaining it in detail (in my opinion). Because of this, I made a video tutorial on the basic of ledge teching. I know there are alot more aspects of it, such as side-b as fox/falco out of a tech, but this video is to just go over generally how to do it.

Hopefully this is helpful to someone out there.

 

[Bones0]

1. You don't need to hold L/R. As soon as you press one, the 20-frame tech window begins whether you release them or not.

2. When you say hitstun has begun, that is actually hitlag. Hitlag is when the game freezes momentarily and allows you to input SDI. If you ledgetech properly, you will tech on the first frame of hitstun.

3. You do not want to tech 20 frames before getting hit. Your tech window has to overlap with the beginning of hitstun, not hitlag, and thus moves with a lot of hitlag will prevent you from teching really early. You also cannot input a tech during hitlag.To get the tech as often as possible, you should tech AS LATE as possible BEFORE entering hitlag (i.e. before you get hit).

4. Hugging the wall is a great way to make getting the tech easier. You also mention that you can go for the sweetspot, but that actually makes it nearly impossible to ledgetech because you will be further from the stage.


I'm not trying to nitpick your video, but those are pretty crucial differences from what you were saying. If possible, I'd recommend just editing your video with corrected text and reupload it...

 

[Berble]

Can you hold the stick towards the stage before touching it to ASDI and then tech?

 

[oats_]

1. You don't need to hold L/R. As soon as you press one, the 20-frame tech window begins whether you release them or not.

Good point, I'll add it. I did not know this, but it could make it a bit easier for some people.

2. When you say hitstun has begun, that is actually hitlag. Hitlag is when the game freezes momentarily and allows you to input SDI. If you ledgetech properly, you will tech on the first frame of hitstun.

3. You do not want to tech 20 frames before getting hit. Your tech window has to overlap with the beginning of hitstun, not hitlag, and thus moves with a lot of hitlag will prevent you from teching really early. You also cannot input a tech during hitlag.To get the tech as often as possible, you should tech AS LATE as possible BEFORE entering hitlag (i.e. before you get hit).

I used somewhat poor wording, I did not mean to tech 20 frames before getting hit, I meant to emphasize the fact that there is a window where you can buffer it rather than having to hit the tech on the same frame you have to SDI or something (which honestly, most new players don't realise you can do, and I made this primarily for them).

You are definitely right though, it makes sense the later the better. I'll add it to the description or something.

4. Hugging the wall is a great way to make getting the tech easier. You also mention that you can go for the sweetspot, but that actually makes it nearly impossible to ledgetech because you will be further from the stage.

Again, poor wording. I more so meant that you should be recovering as though you were going for the sweetspot when it isn't possible, because obviously sweetspotting would make ledge teching kind of trivial

Thanks alot for the input though, it will definitely help me make better guides in the future.

 

[SAUS]

Can you hold the stick towards the stage before touching it to ASDI and then tech?

Yes. This is how I do it almost every time. SDI allows you to do it even when you've been hit while you were far away from the stage, but if you are hugging the wall, you can do it with just ASDI most of the time.

 

[Kadano]

If you ledgetech properly, you will tech on the first frame of hitstun.

3. You do not want to tech 20 frames before getting hit. Your tech window has to overlap with the beginning of hitstun, not hitlag, and thus moves with a lot of hitlag will prevent you from teching really early. You also cannot input a tech during hitlag.To get the tech as often as possible, you should tech AS LATE as possible BEFORE entering hitlag (i.e. before you get hit).

It’s possible to wall-tech during hitlag by using SDI. It looks kinda funny cause you stay in hitlag and wiggle around, but within your wall-tech animation (instead of the respective hitstun animation).

 

[SAUS]

It’s possible to wall-tech during hitlag by using SDI. It looks kinda funny cause you stay in hitlag and wiggle around, but within your wall-tech animation (instead of the respective hitstun animation).

LOL!

On a serious note, does that mean you can wall tech indefinitely as long as you hit the SDI and tech timing every time? Similarly, can you do this on stage to upward killing moves? (SDI down and tech during hit lag)

 

[Kadano]

On a serious note, does that mean you can wall tech indefinitely as long as you hit the SDI and tech timing every time?

Sure, as long as the tech lock window is over when you get hit and collide with the wall for the second time.

Similarly, can you do this on stage to upward killing moves? (SDI down and tech during hit lag)

No. SDI to tech is only possible for wall-techs, not for ground-techs.

 

[tauKhan]

Can you SDI in the teching animation while in hitlag?

 

[Bones0]

It’s possible to wall-tech during hitlag by using SDI. It looks kinda funny cause you stay in hitlag and wiggle around, but within your wall-tech animation (instead of the respective hitstun animation).

I knew you could wall-tech during hitlag, but I didn't know you could SDI after teching, before hitlag ends.

What I meant though was that you can't input the tech during hitlag. Are you saying I can press L during hitlag and still have the input result in a tech?

 

[tauKhan]

I tested this and couldn't sdi after teching.

 

[oats_]

To my knowledge, SDIing down and trying to tech it is known as forbidden SDI and can't be done If only..

Thanks for the tips everyone, we can make this thread into a general discussion about SDI/ledge teching or something. Lots of good advice posted so far.

 

[Kadano]

Can you SDI in the teching animation while in hitlag?

No. While you are still in hitlag, you are not in a “getting hit” animation any longer. Just like an attacker who is in hitlag when his hit connects, you cannot SDI when you are in a non-hitstun animation.

I knew you could wall-tech during hitlag, but I didn't know you could SDI after teching, before hitlag ends.

What I meant though was that you can't input the tech during hitlag. Are you saying I can press L during hitlag and still have the input result in a tech?

I didn’t mean to say that you didn’t know that, reading your post to me just seemed to say that wall-teching during hitlag was impossible and I wanted to make this clear so that nobody gets misinformed (in this case, not by misinformation, but by misunderstanding).

Anyway, wall-teching with SDI is pretty weird. There are all sorts of input combinations that work, and some that don’t work.
To answer your question, yes, that is possible. It only works when your tech input (L/R) is entered on a frame where you also collide with a wall. If you recover in a wall-hug fashion, this is always true for the first two frames of your hitlag. Thus, you can press L or R after frame 1 (and before frame 2) of your hitlag and you will transition to walltech (PassiveWall ) or walljumptech (PassiveWallJump ) (to me, the internal terminology makes much more sense than those we use informally, so I often include these terms, hoping that their usage might become a thing sometime). You don’t even need to SDI in in this case. SDI up/down/away can remove the tech option, though.

While we are at it, I also found out just now that ensuring to get PassiveWallJump and not PassiveWall is much easier than I thought until now. You have an input window of 20 frames before the tech to input your Jump trigger, but this can only be done with X or Y, not with control stick up. It’s pretty much a copy of the tech timer. So if you already know that you want PassiveWallJump, just press X/Y and L/R at the same time before you get hit. This way, you can focus on SDI into the wall and immediately doing the bair (or side-B with the spacies) without needing to react to your animation to confirm you don’t fall down in PassiveWall and bair to your death.

 

[Bones0]

No. While you are still in hitlag, you are not in a “getting hit” animation any longer. Just like an attacker who is in hitlag when his hit connects, you cannot SDI when you are in a non-hitstun animation.

I didn’t mean to say that you didn’t know that, reading your post to me just seemed to say that teching during hitlag was impossible and I wanted to make this clear so that nobody gets misinformed (in this case, not by misinformation, but by misunderstanding).

Anyway, wall-teching with SDI is pretty weird. There are all sorts of input combinations that work, and some that don’t work.
To answer your question, yes, that is possible. It only works when your tech input (L/R) is entered on a frame where you also collide with a wall. If you recover in a wall-hug fashion, this is always true for the first two frames of your hitlag. Thus, you can press L or R after frame 1 (and before frame 2) of your hitlag and you will transition to walltech (PassiveWall ) or walljumptech (PassiveWallJump ) (to me, the internal terminology makes much more sense than those we use informally, so I often include these terms, hoping that their usage might become a thing sometime). You don’t even need to SDI in in this case. SDI up/down/away can remove the tech option, though.

While we are at it, I also found out just now that ensuring to get PassiveWallJump and not PassiveWall is much easier than I thought until now. You have an input window of 20 frames before the tech to input your Jump trigger, but this can only be done with X or Y, not with control stick up. It’s pretty much a copy of the tech timer. So if you already know that you want PassiveWallJump, just press X/Y and L/R at the same time before you get hit. This way, you can focus on SDI into the wall and immediately doing the bair (or side-B with the spacies) without needing to react to your animation to confirm you don’t fall down in PassiveWall and bair to your death.

That's weird you can only input the tech on the first frame of hitlag. The whole thing about transitioning into PW/PWJ sounds like it probably is related to Mario's up-B walljump trick. If you start the up-B already against the wall, it's super easy, but if you don't, you can have to time the press so that it's right when the end of your up-B reaches the wall. Just throwing that theory out there.

Being able to techjump with L+Y sounds WAY easier than trying to hold up. I have always thought about SDIing for ledgetechs, but I usually want the techjump and I would hold up so it never felt like an option (I figured timing Y would be way harder than holding up, but if it's the same as the tech then obviously not).

Random followup question: Do characters exit the techjump animation at the same time as a regular walltech? I'm wondering if ledgetech side-B with spacies becomes significantly easier to hit if I techjump instead of just wallteching and side-Bing. Sometimes the techjump is needed in order to reach the ledge, so if I could always techjump and simply delay my side-B a little longer when necessary, it'd help the decision making process during recoveries.

 

[Kadano]

That's weird you can only input the tech on the first frame of hitlag.

It’s possible on every hitlag frame, but apart from 1/2, you always need to input L/R and SDI in at the same frame.

Random followup question: Do characters exit the techjump animation at the same time as a regular walltech?

Yes, those timings are the same.
The scenario I used was probably very similar to what you are thinking of: A Falco did a 45° (well, 135° to be precise) sweetspot up-B to the ledge. At the very top, he was hit by Marth’s tipper fsmash.
Because of his low position (hence “sweetspot”), he was too low to get to the ledge with a side-B from PassiveWall. Even if he did it on the first actionable frame, he missed the ledge, and as he falls down after that, waiting a few frames only makes it worse.
With PassiveWallJump, only the first actionable frame is too low to side-B to the ledge. So if you ensure the PWJ by inputting both L/R and X/Y at the same time, you only need to delay your side-B by one frame (or a bit more and shorten) and missing the ledge should be a thing of the past.

 

[Bones0]

It’s possible on every hitlag frame, but apart from 1/2, you always need to input L/R and SDI in at the same frame.


Yes, those timings are the same.
The scenario I used was probably very similar to what you are thinking of: A Falco did a 45° (well, 135° to be precise) sweetspot up-B to the ledge. At the very top, he was hit by Marth’s tipper fsmash.
Because of his low position (hence “sweetspot”), he was too low to get to the ledge with a side-B from PassiveWall. Even if he did it on the first actionable frame, he missed the ledge, and as he falls down after that, waiting a few frames only makes it worse.
With PassiveWallJump, only the first actionable frame is too low to side-B to the ledge. So if you ensure the PWJ by inputting both L/R and X/Y at the same time, you only need to delay your side-B by one frame (or a bit more and shorten) and missing the ledge should be a thing of the past.

So if we're just talking about teching on stage, no SDI at all, I can tech during the hitlag of, say, Ganon's stomp and it will still work? I could have sworn I read somewhere that you couldn't tech during hitlag.

Sweet.

 

[Kadano]

So if we're just talking about teching on stage, no SDI at all, I can tech during the hitlag of, say, Ganon's stomp and it will still work? I could have sworn I read somewhere that you couldn't tech during hitlag.

Sweet.

Uhm … no. All I wrote was on wall-tech. Ground-techs during hitlag are still impossible.

 

[Bones0]

Uhm … no. All I wrote was on wall-tech. Ground-techs during hitlag are still impossible.

Sakurai is such a god damn troll.

 

[Kadano]

I think he made excellent choices for teching. If ground-teching with SDI was possible, almost nothing – throws being a notable exception – could kill a grounded character. At high %, the entire game would likely revolve about landing a grab.
Also, being able to consistently do a walljumptech-bair feels extremely powerful, I don’t want to miss this option.