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Lean Melee - Please submit your questions about how to improve! Yes, you personally!

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
Hey guys, I started a blog about Lean Melee, I figure since people probably won't be leaving comments on the blog itself, we can use this forum to discuss and refine the ideas that are being put forth.

Pipeline

"Small batch sizes" and the "MVP" (Minimum Viable Product)
The example post showed going through a full feedback loop. The timeline of the entire story was about 10 hours. I thought about what the problem was on the train home, called Tafokints and Darrell and asked them to come over, and started tracking right away. I didn't need to play the best players in the region, I didn't need to make any elaborate plan for how to start focusing, I just needed to start collecting data, and it worked. It's possible that other things would have worked too, but this was real improvement in a few hours. Lean works best when you invest the minimum amount to find out if you're on the right track.

Skill Pyramid and the value of a strong foundation
I believe that skill in competitive gaming is a hierarchy, and results come from building up from a strong foundation. The pyramid as I see it is this:
0: Focus and Tech
1: Strategy and Creativity
2: Adaptation

I'll talk about how I think they work together, and how each level supports the one on top of it. This is going to be subject to a lot of discussion, because it's speculation on my part. I expect that we should discuss the different aspects of "skill" and figure out how they should be set up as a general rule.

Lean as a framework
I think I'd do well to make a post explaining that Lean is a framework built to efficiently diagnose major problems and fix them. Lean is not a way to start winning a few more games quickly, it requires discipline and a good bit of work. This post will be about my idea of how to use lean effectively, and again should be open to discussion as more people start dabbling with the framework.

Q&A
I've received a few questions and comments through PM or through my thread, so I'd like to make posts here and there responding to questions.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
lol well I certainly want it to have as little content as possible while having the maximum impact :p
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
8,746
Location
Chicago
I think the idea's interesting. I wouldn't have put I Killed Mufasa and a lean/effective playstyle together, but what do I know?
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
First post up.

I was talking to johnny about a similar topic last week and he says I have to "practice with a purpose"...I have a hard time knowing how to fix that so maybe this blog is just what I need.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
Updated the first post with this, but if anyone has suggestions for topics they'd like to read about, especially about clarifying anything I've posted about (but perhaps explained poorly), please let me know!
 

zZz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
167
Location
Memphis, TN
Indeed, I had a little conversation with Scar about this concept. It's great! Auto warrior approved. You guys will like it.
Your advice to, "Get out of your comfort zone" has helped me greatly over the last few months. Just thought I'd let you know.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
@dkuo, I highly recommend the book (obviously). I enjoy learning about entrepreneurship, I'm in the tech space, so things are always rapidly changing. Anything about improving efficiency, best business practices, and management is basically in line with my interests :p

Studied econ in college
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
1. When can we expect the first entry?
2. Do you have a Twitter/can you make a Twitter to let people know when it's up?

I'm hyped. I feel like I am pretty good at improving with my current method, but I'm always interested in ways of streamlining it to improve faster, especially because I don't really live near anyone I can practice with often, which means I have to make the most out of each smashfest/tourney I go to. That could actually be one of your discussions if you want: improving on your own when you often only have videos (of yourself or good players), your imagination, and a Cube. Then the sort of complimentary article to that could be how to maximize your improvement when you are at an event.
 

SSBM_or_GTFO

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
92
When I first read the title I thought it said "Learn Melee...".

Regardless, I'm looking forward to the first entry. I was disappointed to find that there were none. :(
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
Yeah totally, here's my twitter, I'm planning on posting to it with each update:
https://twitter.com/#!/bobbyscar

Also, you guys can't see the intro post?

"Lean Melee – Work smarter
Posted on February 23, 2012
1
I’ve been a competitive gamer since early 2007, when I started taking Super Smash Brothers Melee seriously. I committed more or less immediately to becoming one of the best players in the game. The Melee community is full of like-minded players, all invested in the idea of continuous improvement. A similarly large majority is familiar with working hard and practicing several times per week.

But ask yourself what percentage of players actually get better every week? Every month? Even for players who practice consistently, are active on our message boards, watch or study videos, and travel to tournaments, what percentage significantly improve every year?

If your experience matches mine, the percentage figure is very low, and worse, the cause is almost never laziness or lack of talent. I believe the problem is that fundamentally, the way we practice is wrong. This blog aims to solve that problem.

I believe that the lean framework fits perfectly into gaming. Lean is all about “cutting out the fat”, eliminating waste and focusing our resources on delivering value. This blog will take us through core concepts like defining value and waste, diagnosing pain points, and turning assumptions into validated learning through using the build-measure-learn feedback loop."
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
8,746
Location
Chicago
I think they were taking that more as a "this is what this blog is about" than an actual post. Presumably you mean to get into the real meat n' potatoes of your theory later on, which is what they're anticipating.
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
Hmm, alright I'm getting a much better picture of what to do.

a) record record record
b) analyze the matches, jot down all problems
c) implement the 5 whys
d) problem solve for the root of the issue (the answer to the 5th why)
e) create a objective/key result metric for yourself w/ experiments
f) record record record
g) track your progress & repeat

Interesting way of tackling things. I want Scar as a coach lol.
 

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
Location
Falco Bair
Great stuff Scar. This is really insightful and could benefit the community at large.

Keep it up
 

Construct

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
465
Location
NEOH
Ono scar is going to make everyone sux less :c This is actually some pretty cool stuff, looking forward to seeing where this goes.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
The OKR is particularly intriguing to me. I'm definitely going to try it out next time I play. I'll probably start with edgeguarding like in your example for two reasons:
1. It seems easy to focus on just that aspect without degrading overall gameplay. By contrast, if I try focus on lasers, I may do worse at approaching with aerials.
2. It's easy to tell whether I meet my objective or not. When you are edge guarding, it's usually pretty clear whether you messed up or succeeded.

Once I get more comfortable with the process, hopefully I can move onto more complicated objectives.
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
5,089
Location
Mass
Scar, how good of a read was the lean startup? I watched Ries give a few talks on it a while back and it seemed like he covered most of the key points from the book. So im not sure if I should bother going through the book.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
For my money it was an awesome read, and obviously had a strong impact on me. The talks give a great intro into why Lean Startup is important, but I certainly wouldn't have known enough to apply lean thinking to Melee without having read the book.
 

Fregadero

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
389
MFW weird quirks is a featured topic and this isn't. Even with only two updates, this is one of the best threads in melee discussion.

I'm only a month and a half into competitive smash, so I think I'm going to try implementing it if/when I have time and see how it effects my improvement (which has already been pretty quick). I'll see if I can update with results/vidoes.

Really good stuff Scar. This blog could put some real momentum in the advancement of the community. I'll be waiting for updates.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
Just a quick request -- if anyone uses lean (or what they know about it so far) and have good/bad results, please let me know about it, either through PM or email or gchat or facebook chat or whatever.

And if Lean REALLY helps you and you want to give back, all I ask is that you use the LEAN or 2012 tags while playing in tournament, and if anyone asks why let them know about this blog/thread. Let's push the competitive scene together.
 

PokemonMasterIRL

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
3,001
Location
Popping and locking butt naked.
Just a quick request -- if anyone uses lean (or what they know about it so far) and have good/bad results, please let me know about it, either through PM or email or gchat or facebook chat or whatever.

And if Lean REALLY helps you and you want to give back, all I ask is that you use the LEAN or 2012 tags while playing in tournament, and if anyone asks why let them know about this blog/thread. Let's push the competitive scene together.
swag swooooop
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
2,599
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Forget who but some falcon used the lean tag at the 6-4 match up tourney in Toronto today. He lost.

But it got the chat talking

:phone:
 
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