Layton takes the case! The Professor Layton for Smash Ultimate support thread!

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Someone on another thread brought up an interesting point in regards to the DLC characters, last time, due to Sakurai working with a smaller team, he used existing characters as a template in order to speed up the process of developing a new fighter for DLC. He used Zero Suit Samus to develop Bayonetta and Ike to develop Cloud. The only exception to this was Mewtwo who was the only DLC character to have been built from the ground up. Chances are likely that he'll be doing this again with Smash Ultimate due to him working with a smaller team again to develop the incoming DLC.

If Layton where to be DLC, it might be interesting to see which existing character they may use as a template to develop him.

Layton_in_Mystery-Solving_Files.png
Layton_Pointing.png

Now here's an interesting thing in regards to Layton. Generally he tends to have pretty stylized proportions with a larger upper body and shorter legs. However, during animated cutscenes (As well as the Ace Attorney crossover) Layton tends to have a more realistic body proportions.

The characters I could find that might potentially fit Layton's framework is Luigi, Mii swordfighter and maybe Toon Link if he's scaled up a bit. However, since Bayonetta got a more proportionate framework in Smash compared to her home series (there she has significantly longer legs) they might tinker a bit with Layton's design a bit to make him fit in better with a base character if they need to.

If they where to opt for a more realistic proportionate design for Layton, well I'd say there would probably be more than enough characters to use as a base for that...


For reference sake, I also decided to take a look at what character Jibanyan could use as a base and from what I've noticed. Pichu seems to fit his overall framework pretty well. Maybe Pikachu as well, though I think they would most likely use Pichu for him.


What does this all mean? Well not sure, depending on how Sakurai and his team will go about handling their update data and assuming they don't pull another Ryu and Roy and decide to scrub their files properly. If datamine's where to find character data like Ike and ZSS again, it might be worth looking into what type of potential character they might fit in to. Unless all 5 DLC characters will be realistic proportionate human characters....

Just some food for thought...
 
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fogbadge

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Someone on another thread brought up an interesting point in regards to the DLC characters, last time, due to Sakurai working with a smaller team, he used existing characters as a template in order to speed up the process of developing a new fighter for DLC. He used Zero Suit Samus to develop Bayonetta and Ike to develop Cloud. The only exception to this was Mewtwo who was the only DLC character to have been built from the ground up. Chances are likely that he'll be doing this again with Smash Ultimate due to him working with a smaller team again to develop the incoming DLC.

If Layton where to be DLC, it might be interesting to see which existing character they may use as a template to develop him.


Now here's an interesting thing in regards to Layton. Generally he tends to have pretty stylized proportions with a larger upper body and shorter legs. However, during animated cutscenes (As well as the Ace Attorney crossover) Layton tends to have a more realistic body proportions.

The characters I could find that might potentially fit Layton's framework is Luigi, Mii swordfighter and maybe Toon Link if he's scaled up a bit. However, since Bayonetta got a more proportionate framework in Smash compared to her home series (there she has significantly longer legs) they might tinker a bit with Layton's design a bit to make him fit in better with a base character if they need to.

If they where to opt for a more realistic proportionate design for Layton, well I'd say there would probably be more than enough characters to use as a base for that...


For reference sake, I also decided to take a look at what character Jibanyan could use as a base and from what I've noticed. Pichu seems to fit his overall framework pretty well. Maybe Pikachu as well, though I think they would most likely use Pichu for him.


What does this all mean? Well not sure, depending on how Sakurai and his team will go about handling their update data and assuming they don't pull another Ryu and Roy and decide to scrub their files properly. If datamine's where to find character data like Ike and ZSS again, it might be worth looking into what type of potential character they might fit in to. Unless all 5 DLC characters will be realistic proportionate human characters....

Just some food for thought...
i dunno man i think luigi, mii and toon link's heads are too big, not sure anyone has the right sort of body hed need a lot of work

though the idea of jibanyan being made from pikachu is gonna amuse me for a while
 
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i dunno man i think luigi, mii and toon link's heads are too big, not sure anyone has the right sort of body hed need a lot of work

though the idea of jibanyan being made from pikachu is gonna amuse me for a while
The head usually consists of a single bone particularly for cartoony characters like Layton that rely more on multiple facial expressions that swap out whenever they need to. So I don't think the head size should pose that much of an issue for Layton. Unless their planning to rig his mouth and hat as well, in which case, I'd imagine they'd be fine doing that manually since it shouldn't really affect gameplay in any significant way. At least, if their handling characters similar to what they did with Smash 4, which if some of the models released to the general public are anything to go by, should be the case.
 
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fogbadge

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The head usually consists of a single bone particularly for cartoony characters like Layton that rely more on multiple facial expressions that swap out whenever they need to. So I don't think the head size should pose that much of an issue for Layton. Unless their planning to rig his mouth and hat as well, in which case, I'd imagine they'd be fine doing that manually since it shouldn't really affect gameplay in any significant way. At least, if their handling characters similar to what they did with Smash 4, which if some of the models released to the general public are anything to go by, should be the case.
well you know more about these things than i do, itd be interesting to know how they would do it
 
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well you know more about these things than i do, itd be interesting to know how they would do it
Basically Its not so much the character model itself than the skeleton used to animate these characters that is needed.

So, if say Level-5 gave Sakurai the 3D model of Layton from Azran Legacy to use as a placeholder until his team develops the proper model for Layton. If Sakurai can use an existing armature (or skeleton) of an existing character. He can save a lot more time developing and animating the character rather than doing that all from scratch.

Its more or less how clones (or echo fighters) are made, except taken a step further.
 

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Basically Its not so much the character model itself than the skeleton used to animate these characters that is needed.

So, if say Level-5 gave Sakurai the 3D model of Layton from Azran Legacy to use as a placeholder until his team develops the proper model for Layton. If Sakurai can use an existing armature (or skeleton) of an existing character. He can save a lot more time developing and animating the character rather than doing that all from scratch.

Its more or less how clones (or echo fighters) are made, except taken a step further.
im starting to remember why i gave up on learning 3d modelling
 

fogbadge

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I've done 3D modelling before, I finished Flora and am currently working on Layton and Luke too. Hopefully I'll be able to import them all into Smash Ultimate once model importing becomes a thing. (assuming Layton doesn't become DLC)
id love to see your finnished work if you dont mind
 
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id love to see your finnished work if you dont mind
Flora I've already completed and posted over at the models resource. You can download it over there if you like, though I might update her and her render to fit in better with Smash Ultimate's new art style. Particularly with Peach since that's the character I want to put her over.

Layton and Luke need a bit more work but they should hopefully be done soon-ish too, plus I believe I posted a progress screenshot of Layton at some point earlier in the thread. But I guess I'll post one again once I've applied the bump and specular maps.
 
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One point I should add to this; Zamus in 4 had high-heels added, most likely to have her be able to be used as a template for Bayo.

Compared to last time, there doesn't seem to be any peculiar design changes like that on base roster characters.
 
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One point I should add to this; Zamus in 4 had high-heels added, most likely to have her be able to be used as a template for Bayo.

Compared to last time, there doesn't seem to be any peculiar design changes like that on base roster characters.
The only characters with significant design changes that I can think of are the Zelda characters.
So I'm assuming whoever they chose to develop, they probably already have the characters they need to use as a template.

Considering the huge diverse roster we have this time, I'd imagine they should have about everything for any particular situation that might arise.
It would be interesting to see how they'd develop someone like Banjo Kazooie and Steve by using existing character assets if they are planning on doing them as I can't immediately tell who they'd use as a template for them...
 
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fogbadge

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Flora I've already completed and posted over at the models resource. You can download it over there if you like, though I might update her and her render to fit in better with Smash Ultimate's new art style. Particularly with Peach since that's the character I want to put her over.

Layton and Luke need a bit more work but they should hopefully be done soon-ish too, plus I believe I posted a progress screenshot of Layton at some point earlier in the thread. But I guess I'll post one again once I've applied the bump and specular maps.
i think you shared that flora model before, none the less i look forward to the others
 
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Flora I've already completed and posted over at the models resource. You can download it over there if you like, though I might update her and her render to fit in better with Smash Ultimate's new art style. Particularly with Peach since that's the character I want to put her over.
This one's extremely minor but wouldn't Daisy make more sense with the flower effects?
 
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This one's extremely minor but wouldn't Daisy make more sense with the flower effects?
I guess it could go eitherway now that you mention it, if I'm able to and the modding scene progressed far enough to where this is possible, I might be able to change some assets to something more fitting for their characters. Like replacing the Turnips with Hint Coins, Toad with maybe a chibi Layton model based off one of Curious Village's concept art. The recovery Peaches (or Daisies) with Apples etc. And maybe even their voices too if I can find someone who can do a good Flora impression.

I guess all it may go down to then is wether Peach or Daisy's overall animations and behaviours suits her the best. Flora has had a more playful and chipper personality in Pandora's Box and Lost Future so Daisy might indeed suit her better now that I think about it.
 

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Hello all - hope you're all looking forward to the new year.

Just throwing some quick thoughts around
-that leak is fake (having to simultaneously hold A and press B to access his gimmick? Nah son. Not happening) but someone clearly likes the idea of Layton in Smash. I like that moveset a lot. The side special being a tool for stage control is absolutely what Layton would do (I'd like it most if it stayed in place and exploded after X amount of time, dependent on how long you charged it up), and I reckon they'd give him a counter if they put him in. That's OK though, it's kind of his thing: stopping people dead in their tracks. I think his counter would cause "stun" like Pac-Man's Bell. That way you could use it to kill.

ALTERNATIVELY, if you really don't want a counter, you could rig his down special to work like Ridley's down B but with this stun effect instead of crumple. I'm sure you can imagine Layton winding back and sharply pointing to stun an opponent right at the sweetspot of the move. Beautiful. How satisfying would that be to pull off?

Only thing I'd urgently change about that moveset is his up B. Put the Glider from CV in there and make it a clone of Snake's Cypher imo. Makes way more sense.

One of his special moves needs to be good against shields. Coin gun could achieve that nicely (multi-hits could do a lot of shield damage) and has the advantage of basically being able to use Bullet Seed as a reference (you should not be able to hold it forever though!)

If they're going to pick a character to model Layton off of, I'd say Robin. He has the body shape, proportions and the flowing coat with the pointing-up collar, and his face kind of fits as well. I could see a Smash Layton with that kind of face shape, nose, mouth and ears. The shoes fit perfectly. Et cetera.
robinsu.png Layton_Pointing.png
I think it would work alright! Remove bits like the fancy detail textures from his clothes, his belt and the folds around his midriff, and you basically have Layton. At which point you just stick a cylinder on his head. Easy peasy.

Do I feel any better about his chances?
Not really. But if they're looking to Japanese companies, and they're obviously going to be the favourites, there can't be many big ones left that aren't Level-5, and put it this way, I don't see them picking Jibanyan at this point in time.

Some more moveset ideas:
-Plant a puzzle "!" that functions like Isabelle's rocket, with less vertical range but packing more horizontal kill power
-his neutral B could see him lock on to an opponent and pop a hint coin or something out of them. Think Palutena's autoreticle. This could be a cool way to slow down an approach and get people shielding, giving Layton time to set up another special like the "!" or something. Indicate the lock-on with the magnifying glass that turns orange.
-I've managed to put four original specials in this post total (those two, plus the "Ridley down B" and "Snake Up B") and I reckon they could all mesh together coherently as one character! Get that "no moveset potential" out of here for good.
-This still has to be his final Smash. none of that golem crap.

Let me wish you all a happy new year, and keep those fingers crossed!
 

fogbadge

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how many of level-5's games has the good professor cameoed in? im sure i heard that him and some of the gang where in that football thing they make and i know he and katrielle are in that to-kai watch wibble wobble

have there been any others?
 
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how many of level-5's games has the good professor cameoed in? im sure i heard that him and some of the gang where in that football thing they make and i know he and katrielle are in that to-kai watch wibble wobble

have there been any others?
Layton's made a few cameos in various Level-5 games since his debut. He was an optional opponent in the first Inazuma Eleven game as well as making additional cameo's in later entries. The Layton and Inazuma Eleven series have had quite a lot of cross promotion with each other in the past, as well as Yokai Watch I believe, at least I know Katrielle can wear an outfit based on Katie.
There was that recent golf game where Layton was an optional costume too I believe (I guess if you count it, I think that was his first "appearance" outside of a Nintendo or mobile device, being on a Sony console)

There's most likely more as Level-5 seems to love to cross promote their series and giving their characters cameos in their other titles.


Apparently they are going with codenames for their DLC characters now (at least from what's been datamined so far.) With Joker apparently being codenamed Jack I believe and another datamined character being codenamed "Brave" which many are assuming to be that Dragon Quest character due to recent rumours.

What would you imagine Layton's codename to be if he was going to be DLC?
 
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how many of level-5's games has the good professor cameoed in? im sure i heard that him and some of the gang where in that football thing they make and i know he and katrielle are in that to-kai watch wibble wobble

have there been any others?
Professor Layton makes a cameo on a billboard in Little Battlers eXperience, as GameXplain highlights in this video.

While not a full-fledged cameo, but still worth mentioning because it's close enough to one, Professor Lenkon from Yokai Watch is heavily inspired from Professor Layton just from the visual of the character. Even his theme is a remixed version of Layton's theme.

Apparently they are going with codenames for their DLC characters now (at least from what's been datamined so far.) With Joker apparently being codenamed Jack I believe and another datamined character being codenamed "Brave" which many are assuming to be that Dragon Quest character due to recent rumours.

What would you imagine Layton's codename to be if he was going to be DLC?
I think either "Puzzle" or "Gentleman" would be fitting codenames for Professor Layton.
 
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I was thinking "Puzzle" too, it sounds broad enough to where it can be interpreted for many different characters, like "Brave" apparently does.

If "Gentleman" was his codename then I would really freak out since I can't really immediately think of any characters besides Layton where that name would fit....
 
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GoodGrief741

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Layton's made a few cameos in various Level-5 games since his debut. He was an optional opponent in the first Inazuma Eleven game as well as making additional cameo's in later entries. The Layton and Inazuma Eleven series have had quite a lot of cross promotion with each other in the past, as well as Yokai Watch I believe, at least I know Katrielle can wear an outfit based on Katie.
There was that recent golf game where Layton was an optional costume too I believe (I guess if you count it, I think that was his first "appearance" outside of a Nintendo or mobile device, being on a Sony console)

There's most likely more as Level-5 seems to love to cross promote their series and giving their characters cameos in their other titles.


Apparently they are going with codenames for their DLC characters now (at least from what's been datamined so far.) With Joker apparently being codenamed Jack I believe and another datamined character being codenamed "Brave" which many are assuming to be that Dragon Quest character due to recent rumours.

What would you imagine Layton's codename to be if he was going to be DLC?
I would go with something not as obvious.

Just thought of Latin, but that does seem too obvious. Maybe Late.

Other than that, maybe Answer (“every puzzle has one”), Pika or Rats (really red herringish, especially Pika), or maybe Fencer if that’s what he does.

Hat could also work, it’s really ambiguous but at the same time I can’t think of possible candidates that wear hats.
 

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Layton's made a few cameos in various Level-5 games since his debut. He was an optional opponent in the first Inazuma Eleven game as well as making additional cameo's in later entries. The Layton and Inazuma Eleven series have had quite a lot of cross promotion with each other in the past, as well as Yokai Watch I believe, at least I know Katrielle can wear an outfit based on Katie.
There was that recent golf game where Layton was an optional costume too I believe (I guess if you count it, I think that was his first "appearance" outside of a Nintendo or mobile device, being on a Sony console)

There's most likely more as Level-5 seems to love to cross promote their series and giving their characters cameos in their other titles.


Apparently they are going with codenames for their DLC characters now (at least from what's been datamined so far.) With Joker apparently being codenamed Jack I believe and another datamined character being codenamed "Brave" which many are assuming to be that Dragon Quest character due to recent rumours.

What would you imagine Layton's codename to be if he was going to be DLC?
ok i need to go back to millionaire's conspiracy cause ive clearly forgot this outfit

code names? maybe hersel i mean pp is just his japanese name could be that simple

Professor Layton makes a cameo on a billboard in Little Battlers eXperience, as GameXplain highlights in this video.

While not a full-fledged cameo, but still worth mentioning because it's close enough to one, Professor Lenkon from Yokai Watch is heavily inspired from Professor Layton just from the visual of the character. Even his theme is a remixed version of Layton's theme.



I think either "Puzzle" or "Gentleman" would be fitting codenames for Professor Layton.
oh yeah i forgot about that little reference in the anime, there is actually a yo-kai that appears to be based on layton, professor plumage
 
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wait people think its a kids game?
Probably because some people still live under the impression of "cute/simple visual presentation = must be a kids only game" with no possible deeper meanings or themes that may fly over a child's head but older players may pick up.

Imagine having that same mindset for a series like Earthbound or most Disney movies...
 
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Probably because some people still live under the impression of "cute/simple visual presentation = must be a kids only game" with no possible deeper meanings or themes that may fly over a child's head but older players may pick up.

Imagine having that same mindset for a series like Earthbound or most Disney movies...
well its their loss
 
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Probably because some people still live under the impression of "cute/simple visual presentation = must be a kids only game" with no possible deeper meanings or themes that may fly over a child's head but older players may pick up.

Imagine having that same mindset for a series like Earthbound or most Disney movies...
I don’t need to imagine, I live in that world. Let’s just say some parts of the globe have more outdated preconceptions.
 
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Well on a lighter note, apparently model imports are already slowly starting to become a thing for Smash Ultimate so I finally decided to get off my lazy rear and work a bit further on Layton's model.
Finally managed to do some rigging so he's no longer stuck at a T-pose, so all that's left now is applying some normal and specular maps for the details as well as doing the facial expressions and any further polishing up of the model.
Let me know what you think and what materials I should use for his clothing (you know, clothing materials like denim, leather, cotton etc)
 
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Well on a lighter note, apparently model imports are already slowly starting to become a thing for Smash Ultimate so I finally decided to get off my lazy rear and work a bit further on Layton's model.


Finally managed to do some rigging so he's no longer stuck at a T-pose, so all that's left now is applying some normal and specular maps for the details as well as doing the facial expressions and any further polishing up of the model.
Let me know what you think and what materials I should use for his clothing (you know, clothing materials like denim, leather, cotton etc)
looking marvellous
 
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Hello, I'm here to support

Never played the games, but I want to try them at some point...
Thank you for your support Smashing Ramen, I've added you to the supporters list.

If you'd like to give the games a go one day, Curious Village might be a good starting point for newcomers, It even had an HD remake fairly recently on IOS devices and the rest of the original trilogy will surely follow suit. Though there might also be a potential HD collection of the original trilogy for the Switch at some point, so it might also be worth waiting it out just a bit in case that happens...
It's up to you.

Welcome on board!
 

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I've been playing Curious Village HD at work and in my free time and it is absolutely lovely. I played the rest of the DS games and Layton vs. Wright first so it was hard to go back, but now that this new version is out I'm really just having a fantastic time. The controls are more comparable to Diabolical Box, which I like (the weird clunkiness of the original was irritating going back before) and of course the puzzles are incredibly well-done (and frustrating).

Very much worth the $10. My only complaints are the voices seem very quiet and I'm used to the far superior English Luke voice actor so it's not great going back to the US one. All in all though a great introduction to the series. Plus, the new art and animations are just stunning!
 
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I've been playing Curious Village HD at work and in my free time and it is absolutely lovely. I played the rest of the DS games and Layton vs. Wright first so it was hard to go back, but now that this new version is out I'm really just having a fantastic time. The controls are more comparable to Diabolical Box, which I like (the weird clunkiness of the original was irritating going back before) and of course the puzzles are incredibly well-done (and frustrating).

Very much worth the $10. My only complaints are the voices seem very quiet and I'm used to the far superior English Luke voice actor so it's not great going back to the US one. All in all though a great introduction to the series. Plus, the new art and animations are just stunning!
Wait, Luke only has his US voice in the HD remake? I thought he also had his UK voice.


Perhaps you may have accidentally purchased the US version?
 
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Flyboy

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Wait, Luke only has his US voice in the HD remake? I thought he also had his UK voice.


Perhaps you may have accidentally purchased the US version?
I did, because I'm from the US. I haven't really dug around in options so if I can change that I probably will. I play with volume off since I'm using it at work mostly so it's not a huge deal, just thought it worth mentioning.
 
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I did, because I'm from the US. I haven't really dug around in options so if I can change that I probably will. I play with volume off since I'm using it at work mostly so it's not a huge deal, just thought it worth mentioning.
Oh I see, that makes more sense. I recalled they went a bit back and forth with Luke's US and UK voices in the US and Australian version of the games for some reason.
 
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