[Lab] The Castle Flip: DA Sourspot to Up Air - Combo % Chart (WIP)

[Abbey Street]

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Ganondorf's Dash Attack is a pretty potent move in this game. Being able to setup juggles and combos from outside the ranges of many standard attacks, grabs and tilts, as well as the burst of speed it gives, it's a key move in the arsenal of a more offensive Ganondorf player, not only as a combo starter, but as something of a zone-breaker as well.

An interesting part about said Dash Attack is its "sourspot". With a hitbox lasting seven frames, and just the right amount of KB to conveniently leave the opponent helplessly hanging over top of him, it can, at mid to high percentages, true combo into an Up Air. This is known as of today as the Castle Flip, a combo that can easily send the target offstage and even net a kill.

Here's a lab table where we can look at true combo percentages for the Castle Flip:

| | | | | | | | | |
% range | 56-113 | 62 - 96 | 60 - 95 | 67 - 130 | 52 - 86* | ? | ? | ? | 66 - 155 | ?

| | | | | | | | | |
% range | ? | ? | ? | 57 - 119* | 65 - 139* | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?

| | | | | | | | | |
% range | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | 65 - 173 | ? | ? | ? | ?

| | | | | | | | | |
% range | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?

| | | | | | | | | |
% range | ? | 56 - 115 | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?

| | | | | | | |
% range | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | varies | varies | varies

* = currently reviewing
note: These are calculated without taking Rage into account

I aim to have this amended regularly as we discover max percentages. I say "we" as I'm gonna need your help! (Post 'em below if you look for them) Videos applying the Castle Flip are also appreciated.

 

[Vermanubis]

Before anyone says to put this in the AT thread, I'm aware of it, and I'm intentionally leaving it out. I'll merge it with the AT thread at some point, but having community input from more than the small handful that visit the AT thread would be nice.

Thanks for this, Abbey.

 

[Sykkamorre]

While I'm not at the wii U to test right now,but jr may have varying percentages based on which hurtbox you hit with the DA.

 

[_Magus_]

I love this. Nice to see it getting some community lab attention. I'll be sure to do some labbing on this and get back to you guys.

 

[Abbey Street]

While I'm not at the wii U to test right now,but jr may have varying percentages based on which hurtbox you hit with the DA.

As far as Junior is concerned I wanna focus on the klown kar hurtbox as that's the one that Ganon's going to deal with most. We can come back later and test the other hurtbox if anyone's bothered labbing that.

 

[Sykkamorre]

As far as Junior is concerned I wanna focus on the klown kar hurtbox as that's the one that Ganon's going to deal with most. We can come back later and test the other hurtbox if anyone's bothered labbing that.

From what I can tell... it's the opposite way round. His weaker hurtbox seems to overlap the strong one most of the time.

 

[Abbey Street]

From what I can tell... it's the opposite way round. His weaker hurtbox seems to overlap the strong one most of the time.

That's weird af. Oh well, whatever's easier for people, I'm all for testing

 

[ーBKー]

I tested a bit of characters (i tried to be as precise as possible, but i guess i might have missed some %s)
Mario: 56-113
Luigi:62-96
Peach:60-95
I tested Sheik too to doublecheck and for me she is 57-119

 

[Sykkamorre]

That's weird af. Oh well, whatever's easier for people, I'm all for testing

Yeah, it is.

They want that patched as much as we want a quick jab and a grab range buff.

On a topical note, doc should by all logic have similar if not identical percentages to Mario.

 

[Abbey Street]

On a topical note, doc should by all logic have similar if not identical percentages to Mario.

Yeah I've been going by that logic. Obv Pit and Pittoo will also theoretically have identical %s.

There is a slight size difference between Marth and Lucina, so Lucina's max % will be lower, if only by like 2 or 3.

I will amend the chart to include the new posts in a bit

 

[Showyoucan]

I'm loving this tech, thanks for sharing this! Just a quick question, according to Ganondorf's frame data in the Kurogane Hammer website, his late dash attack is active for 6 frames (frames 13-19) Do you wanna include the most minimal %? (trying to get the frame 19 dash attack) or is it fine if the % isn't exact? Like for example, on Bowser I get "The Castle Flip" consistently at 90% but the most minimal % is around 65% but it has to be done at the 17-19 frame of the dash attack.

 

[Abbey Street]

I'm loving this tech, thanks for sharing this! Just a quick question, according to Ganondorf's frame data in the Kurogane Hammer website, his late dash attack is active for 6 frames (frames 13-19) Do you wanna include the most minimal %? (trying to get the frame 19 dash attack) or is it fine if the % isn't exact? Like for example, on Bowser I get "The Castle Flip" consistently at 90% but the most minimal % is around 65% but it has to be done at the 17-19 frame of the dash attack.

Yeah, aiming for the late frames would be great.

 

[Showyoucan]

This is what I have so far:
Bowser: 70%-130%
Donkey Kong: 66%-155%
King DDD: 65%-173%
Ganondorf: 65%-139%
This was tested in training mode so no rage effect.

 

[Abbey Street]

This is what I have so far:
Bowser: 70%-130%
Donkey Kong: 66%-155%
King DDD: 65%-173%
Ganondorf: 65%-139%
This was tested in training mode so no rage effect.

Thanks for these! Just tested Bowser myself, the minimum is a tad bit lower but it's all good. Sometimes it can be hard to nail down the minimum and maximum %s because timing has to be nearly frame-perfect, so worry not. : )

Interesting how much higher the max % for Dedede is than it is for the others though. I guess that's just because of the hurtboxes shifting after the attack, as well as how fat Dedede is.

 

[Showyoucan]

Thanks for these! Just tested Bowser myself, the minimum is a tad bit lower but it's all good. Sometimes it can be hard to nail down the minimum and maximum %s because timing has to be nearly frame-perfect, so worry not. : )

Interesting how much higher the max % for Dedede is than it is for the others though.

I couldn't get the 65% I mentioned before. I knew it had to exist somewhere

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Just beware of Kurogane since that's pretty outdated as far as Ganon is concerned.

By "pretty outdated", you mean nair/dsmash changes and the fair and uthrow damage increases, then sure.

 

[Theosmeo]

At lower %s would it be possible to confirm sour DA> Nair? both hits connect now so it seems like a good way to get people to the %s necessary for sour DA>uair

 

[Abbey Street]

At lower %s would it be possible to confirm sour DA> Nair? both hits connect now so it seems like a good way to get people to the %s necessary for sour DA>uair

Indeed you can. Not sure if it works on the whole cast, so maybe someone can fill me in there.

EDIT: I have a lot of next week off so I will do some testing for as many fighters as I can during next week! Thread is now bookmarked so I don't forget.
Changelist:

• fixed Dr. Mario's percentages

 

[Sykkamorre]

Might want to check doc to see if his max percentage is any higher due to lower airspeed.

 

[Abbey Street]

Alright, just got finished testing , but I have the feeling that the numbers aren't final here. This character was an utter pain in the ass to test on, and I'll explain why.

Not only does Rosalina have a relatively small window in which the Castle Flip works, but Luma's presence can throw a wrench into the plan thanks to hitlag. With Luma in between you and Rosalina on the ground, not only does this give Rosalina more time to react and shield/dodge, but it can throw off your timing pretty hard, which can be crucial in the combo's early and late percentages where things have to be near frame-perfect on her in order for the combo to work. In addition, if you hit Luma with the sweetspot of the attack, and then Rosalina with the sourspot, there is a solid chance that Luma will pop up and be right there with Rosalina when you attempt to confirm into up air; this can, again, cause hitlag via Luma, allowing Rosalina a couple more frames to respond to the up air. I actually had to kill Luma every single time I test-ran the combo to ensure that it didn't get in the way.

So yeah, be really careful trying this combo against Rosa.

 

[Theosmeo]

Alright, just got finished testing , but I have the feeling that the numbers aren't final here. This character was an utter pain in the *** to test on, and I'll explain why.

Not only does Rosalina have a relatively small window in which the Castle Flip works, but Luma's presence can throw a wrench into the plan thanks to hitlag. With Luma in between you and Rosalina on the ground, not only does this give Rosalina more time to react and shield/dodge, but it can throw off your timing pretty hard, which can be crucial in the combo's early and late percentages where things have to be near frame-perfect on her in order for the combo to work. In addition, if you hit Luma with the sweetspot of the attack, and then Rosalina with the sourspot, there is a solid chance that Luma will pop up and be right there with Rosalina when you attempt to confirm into up air; this can, again, cause hitlag via Luma, allowing Rosalina a couple more frames to respond to the up air. I actually had to kill Luma every single time I test-ran the combo to ensure that it didn't get in the way.

So yeah, be really careful trying this combo against Rosa.

Well it´s amazing that you did, Rosa´s a pain to deal with so anything helps