Kojin's Sonic Tech Lab *taking another look at Speed's Sonic*

[WedginatorX]

hey Now Don't Be Forgetting About Sharpz Over Here. Once I Establish My Title In Ga I'm Traveling Baby! And I'm Gonna Go To Tx, And To Nj, And To Vegas And To Ohio And Then To Md/va To Take Back The Steakhouse!! Byaaaaaa!!!!!

Nukkuh We Gettin Off With Dat Project Roguesteak?!

 

[da K.I.D.]

Hey now don't be forgetting about Sharpz over here. Once I establish my title in GA i'm traveling baby! AND I'M GONNA GO TO TX, AND TO NJ, AND TO VEGAS AND TO OHIO AND THEN TO MD/VA TO TAKE BACK THE STEAKHOUSE!! BYAAAAAA!!!!!

Come back and talk to me when the best sonic in your state isnt a marth main...

 

[ShadoFiend]

Rofl Kid Dayuuuuuuuuuuuum

 

[~TBS~]

heh, Kinzer is entierly right...I still stay with Sonic even though i still get owned. I said it once and i'll say it again. Sonic is my favorite character of all time. I'll never use anyone else. /fanboyism and dedication

@KID
yeah, thats probably it. i need to think of something.

@Kinzer
MD/VA has learned Sonic...its scary. Maybe they didnt even learn Sonic, maybe their just too good?

@Espy
hey...you're not a tool. You're the best Sonic has to offer.

@Shado
we already talked about this...I just dont know what to do. >.<

@Sharpie
gogogogo for it. Dont let anything hold you back, not even KID's remarks. Prove him wrong lol.

@Wedge
thanks for the the custom texture. Another Scourge? ugh...XP

 

[Sonic-Rave]

@Sharpie
gogogogo for it. Dont let anything hold you back, not even KID's remarks. Prove him wrong lol.

Already working on it. Got a tourney coming up actually (although it got pushed back a week XP). But yeah me and Shado had discussed this last night. Good to know I have MD/VA Sonics supporting me lol.

 

[JayBee]

Dang, I missed alot these last days on this thread. I'll have to read over them later.

Just to let you guys know, im uploading the newest video from KojinSagara Productions now, for the combo video contest. Its got other characters too, but still has the steak. in anycase, when its finally uploaded, i post the link, and ask for your support/vote/steak points.

see yall at the xat chat.

edit: its still being processed, but this is the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R2tqBUwAaw

enjoy. steak

EDIT: technical difficulties with the video. a new one is uploading soon

 

[da K.I.D.]

Xat room blows, dont go there.

Its back to being all about the steak break room.

 

[JayBee]

lolwut? okay....

In any case, the new video is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv1d-OUNAls


it works. i swear. In any case your support is appreciated, whenever the voting starts for this thing...

 

[Espy Rose]

You used Red Fraction. I love you.

 

[Kupo Rose]

I 5/5'd =D

Compared to the other people's videos. I'd say your lightspeeds ahead in terms on quality and video editing. The intro was neat and I liked how you intergrated the Brawl Opening throughout the whole video. It seemed more "Raising awareness of Smash Bros" than "A combo video for Smash Bros" which most people kinda done. (To me anyway)

Could've been a lil longer and shown more characters being used, then again, you were tight on time so I can't criticize much about that. (I was hoping to see some Sonic DashDance mindgames somewhere though lol)

Good move referencing back to smashboards.com in the end of the video. I havn't seen all the other people's full video endings 'cause my PC can't load their videos fast enough and it got pretty boring for me O.o

Man... If only the deadline could've been longer. =/ I would've submitted something too.

 

[JayBee]

You used Red Fraction. I love you.

if i knew you loved that song id have used it earlier. lol.

 

[JayBee]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255763

go to the combo video voting thread and check out the cool entries. And vote for your favorite. Oddly enough, my vid on the thread isn't working.... why is that? In case you havent seen it, click here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv1d-OUNAls or go to youtube.com/kojinsagara.

You only get one week to vote so make it count! vote!


EDIT: 16 votes! good, but not enough!!

 

[Browny]

I voted (for yours obv. lol)

Had I know this was going on I might have tried to make my own, I went through about 200 replays a few dasy ago to make this highlight vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEnvd9IzUmw

 

[~TBS~]

those were some cool combo vids, but Kojin's was the best IMO. Voted for KojinSegara. Also, why is that MKpor guy winning? i mean, the edited Fsmash had me lol'ing hard, but wow, people want that one to win. o=

DJ, that was awesome. XD snake usmash on gliding MK? o_o
And those were replays of you and other players right?

 

[Espy Rose]

I don't think you understand how amazing Tham's video is, SM5.
I would've voted for Tham over Kojin in all honesty, but Kojin asked me to vote for him, so I did.

 

[Umby]

Near952 needs to learn to deinterlace his videos.

I voted for RockCrock. It's clearly the best video there.

 

[Browny]

DJ, that was awesome. XD snake usmash on gliding MK? o_o
And those were replays of you and other players right?

Yeah, lol it would say 'CPU' above the characters if there were any

 

[Kinzer]

You got my vote Kojin.

 

[JMan8891]

Kojin got mine- If it were melee, RockCrock all day

And Tham's was epicly entertaining, xD

 

[-Axis-]

Sorry Kojin, but RockCrock got my vote. I understand you were going for the whole "raise smash awareness" thing, and the editing was quite good, but the gameplay was a bit lacking. I believe that the winning combo video should best showcase the ability of the players, despite the hard work that you put into it. Nevertheless, you made a great video and should be commended for that.

Plus, RockCrock's vid haz da Sawnik muzics.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

I voted for yours, but I have mixed feelings about all of this. 1, I don't like the idea of using an outdated game to highlight our community, as great as Melee is, even if it is "better" than Brawl. 2, yeah, gameplay was lacking. Also, I think you used too much Sonic footage, and while I'm appreciative as a SM, I don't think there was a level of diversity that the contest organizers wanted evident in your video. Finally, I don't like the idea of us getting to vote at all, mostly because I don't trust the opinion of the majority - I'd have a much easier time accepting the opinion of the authority, in this case, the contest designers - even though this is a community project; scrubs can't vote on the tier list, but they can vote on the video that represents us?

 

[CeroPhantom]

I voted for you if only because you asked. I didn't bother looking at the other ones, anyway.

 

[tankzortz]

rockcrock's vid got my vote, twas amazing

 

[JayBee]

Thanks to everyone who voted, but it looks like the voting process is over now. Appreciate those who voted for me, no matter the reason, though if you look at the votes, i got destroyed anyways. I liked several of them, so even if you voted for me you should have at least looked at a few of them. I personally dont think Tham's vid, although entertaining, should have gotten more votes then mine, and since my video is brawl, (which we all know has no combos in any way lol) I had to let people know about it as much as I could to give me any votes at all, since there still is too much melee bias on the boards. that, and I apparently dont have 100 freinds

Personally, the hardest part for me doing the vid was doing it during midterms in college. I also asked many people to send me high quality vids, but few offered or did. I guess i should have just did what the others did and just ripped from Youtube, but for some reason i felt like that was wrong without permission...

the editing was nice, if i could do it over i would but im too mentally exhausted to care about contests like this anymore, especially after that flamed debate on the thread that became melee vs brawl, AGAIN.

It's still a nice video, so I'll leave it up, but I think I'll just stick to Sonic vids from now on, unless i get ******** clips from other characters. personally sonic is more dynamic than most of the cast, which is why even in a brawl video a sonic vid works IMO.

So now I'm gonna focus on getting finals done, then afterwards get to work on the next Kojin/Sonic vid, and get prepared for Pound4, which i've been training for since a month ago. I hope to see you there.

EDIT: lol, if some of you guys were gonna vote for the others, then you should've just did it and not told me on my own thread. that made me sadface. Us sonic's gotta stick together, Axis... :D

In the meantime, I haven't had anything really good to discuss, so if we got suggestions then go for it. I think I haven't done a style analysis in a while, i need to go and see who i havent done, i think i have a waiting list... gawd i'm too slow...

 

[Trent]

Don't beat yourself up. I loved your video and thought you put a lot of work into it! Who cares if it didn't win?

(P.S. I voted on it because Sonic + "YOU MAKE ME VIOLATE YOU NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE!!" was awesome)

 

[-Axis-]

I voted for yours, but I have mixed feelings about all of this. 1, I don't like the idea of using an outdated game to highlight our community, as great as Melee is, even if it is "better" than Brawl. 2, yeah, gameplay was lacking. Also, I think you used too much Sonic footage, and while I'm appreciative as a SM, I don't think there was a level of diversity that the contest organizers wanted evident in your video. Finally, I don't like the idea of us getting to vote at all, mostly because I don't trust the opinion of the majority - I'd have a much easier time accepting the opinion of the authority, in this case, the contest designers - even though this is a community project; scrubs can't vote on the tier list, but they can vote on the video that represents us?

Wow. This. This is the only thing that matters right now. Everything this man has said is true.

I voted for you if only because you asked. I didn't bother looking at the other ones, anyway.

I rest my case.

lol, if some of you guys were gonna vote for the others, then you should've just did it and not told me on my own thread. that made me sadface. Us sonic's gotta stick together, Axis... :D

Hehe, sorry about that. I honestly would have picked yours if I had one more vote, it best represents Brawl as a game by far. The other Brawl vids were.......not what I expected. A joke, a combo video too centered around one character, and the rest were sort of mediocre. Don't feel discouraged by your standings, i'm sure many people would quite honestly say that your video was among the best. Some of the things you need to consider are:
1. Most voters didn't watch all the videos.
2. There were only 2 melee videos for the entire SSBM community to vote on, while the newer, less experienced Brawl community had lots of diversity.
3. Melee obviously beats Brawl in the entertainment factor.
4. The contest, as a whole, was very flawed.

Finally, I read the whole Brawl vs. Melee debate in that thread yesterday, and I gotta tell you, it got really old. Tell Bolt not to worry about all those things people said about his Checkers/Chess comparison. Yes, it was flawed, but he was only trying to make a point.

 

[CeroPhantom]

Can't I vote for whatever reason I personally feel for?

Kojin uses Sonic. Therefore, my vote goes to Kojin. Must I go through a dozen videos when I can click one from a Sonic mainer and say "Done."?

 

[-Axis-]

Can't I vote for whatever reason I personally feel for?

Kojin uses Sonic. Therefore, my vote goes to Kojin. Must I go through a dozen videos when I can click one from a Sonic mainer and say "Done."?

Because you're supposed to vote for the video you liked the best. Otherwise, it's not a fair contest.

 

[infomon]

IMO there were too many vids, and some of them were really not good (no offense to anyone).

I tried to skim around until I found good ones, but it just took too much time, so I just voted for Kojin's since it was the best of the ones I watched lol.

 

[CeroPhantom]

I did vote for the one I saw best. Watching one video out of 12 or so automatically places the video I saw as best in my eyes.

 

[-Axis-]

I did vote for the one I saw best. Watching one video out of 12 or so automatically places the video I saw as best in my eyes.

I honestly cant tell if you're serious or just trying to create some kind of conflict. In any case, you're completely missing the point. Kojin made a great video, and if it was your favorite then more power to you. If you voted for it solely because he advertised it in his thread, (which is just fine btw) you're an uneducated voter.

 

[chaoechidna]

I voted kojin. Don't worry about this man, it wasn't really a legit competition on combo videos i feel (tho i may be wrong and biased), more like a popularity contest it seemed. Your video was awesome. The other vids were also awesome. It's so hard to make these vids man, props to you for taking time out of your busy college sched to enter this contest. Good luck with finals and pound4.

 

[JayBee]

Nair!

appreciate it. now let's move on before this subject takes too many posts.

I think for the next week or so i want to discuss Sonic's Nair again. It is still a move that doesn't get used. I feel like I understand the purpose of it more than before, and feel free to debate. In addition, if you have vids where you have used nair effectively, please show and post here, and if you can ecplain whether it was spontaneous, or if you did have a good reason, what it was.

IMO, nair becomes a decent tool in two situations:
1: against the airdodge
2: additional pressure option up close

1: Sonics at this point, i assume understand the concept of baiting and punishing, especailly when we are hunting fotr Airdodges to pounce on. Nair has a very long hitbox and quick startup. this means you can attack with Nair after, lets say, an early percentage upthrow, and even if the person AD's, the attack is long enought to hit them with the weak end of the nair as you fast fall it, and youll be close to the ground. add the hitstun of that sweet spot with the low lag of the nair, and you can follow up with jabs, or even another throw.

2: Once sonic gets in, nair can be used to pressure the opponents shield while moving behind them. for example, lets say you rush in to punish a laggy attack. you screech stop in thier face, then start a jab/dtilt or something. but what if they block it in time? But instead of continuing the combo and get shield grabbed, sonic mindgames the opponent with an empty jump behind, then delays his nair. by the time he gets on the other side and nair hits the shield, Sonic could start to jab again, sidestep a potential counter, or grab.

There are a few matches on youtube recently where I tested this against opponents i play with. hopefully gimr has made them public. and i have a few against a Ganon I play freindlies with, when I started using it more.

I feel that when I used it correctly like this, If gives Sonic more of a "flow" to his offence, and has suprised the opponent by the sheer speed of its activation. my thoughts are, that even if a move is longer in range, if i am already inside pressuring them , then this move can be used, and now i have a possible setup for something if they spotdodge hoping to get away from sonic's usual option (grab). The sourhit I belive can link into a grab, jab or tilt (dont quote me on this but so far it has happened often; I even did this against gimr. Lastly I find that this is best against characters with poor aerial acceration, like Snake, so IMO his airdodges from moves like upthrow are almost useless.

Espy, please work on what we talked about over the phone and see how effective it is, so you can tell us about it. Now the floor is open to discussion. And please, be nice.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

i like Nair, and use it regularly; it's quick, it's usually fresh, and when I'm coming from over the top of them like if I Spinshot from the side or if my opponent recovers low onto the stage, I feel like I control more below me than any of the other regular moves allow. Further, Nair mindgames are very tasty. I don't really have too much to add, just sorta' agreeing w/ ya.

Wow. This. This is the only thing that matters right now. Everything this man has said is true.

why thank you kind sir

 

[B.A.M.]

I would definitely agree with ur statements Kojin. Nair has always been excellent versus airdodges, ESPECIALLY after a good string of follow-ups, you can usually bait and punish an AD with nair. Also as you said upthrow> nair > uthrow> works for me. I also love to nair after baiting an AD with a spring dair. Another facet of Nair is ASC combos. Now If you are good at spacing these combos, an ASC nair> HA tends to mess ppl up. Also if you wait a bit, due to the hitstun recieved from the 3rd hit ? of the ASC combo it could be an outright early kill off the side. Sourspot is awesome because when u bait an airdodge offstage sourspot nair follow ups are awesome ( jump and spring, aerial, Spindash). I always thought Nair was underrated, especially due to the fact when Sonic properly follows while spacing correctly airdodges become lifesavers from Sonic's vicious strings IMO. Nair takes care of that option. The knockback is fairly decent and the sourspot assures us a hit if opponent dodges and usually keeps the opponent close for a myriad of followups. Whats not to like? O and nairing ppl off platforms > nair> jablock *****.

 

[-Axis-]

Nair deals a surprising amount of damage, second only to fair, correct? This obviously makes it useful in SDR combos, since it racks good damage and doesn't knock the opponent too far away for a follow-up. I've noticed that hitting with Nair will often give me a techchase opportunity, since it's usually completely unexpected. The sourspot of the nair is one of my favorite edgeguarding tools, since it's too weak for the other player to DI up to get back to the stage and will often lead right into a footstool or spring drop. Jeez, I need to use his thing more.

 

[Exceladon City]

I have been using reverse Nair for edgeguarding. It's a bit of a mindgame if they are expecting Bair and get the wrong thing. Of course, you could probably do it with Fair as well.

 

[Kinzer]

Nair deals a surprising amount of damage, second only to fair, correct? This obviously makes it useful in SDR combos, since it racks good damage and doesn't knock the opponent too far away for a follow-up. I've noticed that hitting with Nair will often give me a techchase opportunity, since it's usually completely unexpected. The sourspot of the nair is one of my favorite edgeguarding tools, since it's too weak for the other player to DI up to get back to the stage and will often lead right into a footstool or spring drop. Jeez, I need to use his thing more.

Nair is Sonic's 3rd strongest aerial in terms of damage. Uair does 9% if both hits connect fresh, while Dair will do 6% fresh. You won't be hitting with all of Fair's hits too often, but I believe it is Sonic's strongest aerial. Bair does 13% damage sweetspot, 9% soutspot if fresh.

I love Nair. If I don't feel like knocking off my opponents off a platform with Fair, I'll Nair their shield, which pushes them off. If they're not expecting it, it will set them right up for a jab-lock. I also use this move to overlap airdodges. Not Sonic's best aerial, but far from it's worst/having no use at all.

 

[chaoechidna]

I'm not a nair guru, but i really like using it a lot as the follow up attack from a spin dash ->sd jump -> nair. I use it a lot when i've staled my fair out too much, and it gives a good amount of knockback when they're at high percents. It goes without saying that i never let it stale for it to be able to knockback well from a grounded spin dash attack.

As everyone else is saying, it makes for a great edgeguard tool. The knockback really is pretty good unstaled and at high percents, and it's killed for me plenty of times. I never consciously use the sourspot of it, but i can see where that would make for great followups. I really need to use this more often as well..

 

[JayBee]

Whats not to like? O and nairing ppl off platforms > nair> jablock *****.

I was going to point this out today. on stages like battlefield, a person who sheilds a lot on platforms can be pushed off of platforms by a blocked nair, which allows a jablock setup below. Nairs low end lag helps give you the time to make it happen. The weak hit of nair can also set up jab locks, though unwieldly, and is best to really even bother trying them on platfomed stages.