JayBee
Smash Champion
dont even worry about online losses. they show anything other than your ability to adapt to lag.
-
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Kojin's Sonic Tech Lab *taking another look at Speed's Sonic*
- Thread starter JayBee
- Start date
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
Im not saying wifi doesnt effect someones skill. But when you're seeing the person do the same thing they do offline. Lag minimum. same region. You gotta say to yourself that the outcome would have probably been the same. Even in real life he lost to a Falco. I dont understand what happens. He has a solid lead then bam. Miraculous ultra loll
JayBee
Smash Champion
I havent been updating this thread in a while. I'm thinking of putting more videos here as i talk about stuff. Will try to do so this week.
I've been looking at my style lately, and i realized two things:
1: It takes me a long time to get my sonic ready at full strength and
2: I know a crap ton of stuff about sonic
when i thought about this, it made me not only realize why i dont do well in tourneys (not a john, but i dont give myself enough time to practice and adjust to the place) but why I dont do well against people I probably should. regarless, I thought that I should give you guys a chance to critique me and give me my style analysis. I've given many of you guys the treatment, now is your turn to help me out. I'll try to put more vids up soon, probably here tho. If you can follow the format that i have been doing them that would be great. ( go to the first page for links to see them. even video links to give your points validity. that would be awesome, and it would do good for you to see what you like and dont like, and maybe it will even improve your style when you see what I'm doing right/wrong. I do have tons of stuff already. Or you can wait for more ones. either way, lets see what you come up with. I may ask questions, and i hope you can answer. comparing other analysis would also be intriquing.
Get to work.
I've been looking at my style lately, and i realized two things:
1: It takes me a long time to get my sonic ready at full strength and
2: I know a crap ton of stuff about sonic
when i thought about this, it made me not only realize why i dont do well in tourneys (not a john, but i dont give myself enough time to practice and adjust to the place) but why I dont do well against people I probably should. regarless, I thought that I should give you guys a chance to critique me and give me my style analysis. I've given many of you guys the treatment, now is your turn to help me out. I'll try to put more vids up soon, probably here tho. If you can follow the format that i have been doing them that would be great. ( go to the first page for links to see them. even video links to give your points validity. that would be awesome, and it would do good for you to see what you like and dont like, and maybe it will even improve your style when you see what I'm doing right/wrong. I do have tons of stuff already. Or you can wait for more ones. either way, lets see what you come up with. I may ask questions, and i hope you can answer. comparing other analysis would also be intriquing.
Get to work.
Kinzer
Mammy
Don't you try to play a couple of friendlies before you enter a tourney?
I feel so choppy before I do anything, and after a couple of sparring sessions with anybody somewhat decent (or even just a moving sandbag, just as long as it gets your Sonic's blood flowing), I feel a lot more ready to go.
I feel so choppy before I do anything, and after a couple of sparring sessions with anybody somewhat decent (or even just a moving sandbag, just as long as it gets your Sonic's blood flowing), I feel a lot more ready to go.
JayBee
Smash Champion
it seems that for the last couple of tourneys I dont get fully comfortable until after the tourney is over. i dunno, have an all night seession before maybe?
Kinzer
Mammy
Whatever floats your boat.
Meet-up with a couple of the people who are either going to the tourney, or are at least playing with a competitive mindset. Definitely better than going in not at 100%, if that's at all possible.
I would think some crews might do that.
Meet-up with a couple of the people who are either going to the tourney, or are at least playing with a competitive mindset. Definitely better than going in not at 100%, if that's at all possible.
I would think some crews might do that.
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
I usually hit the training room a full hour or two before every tourney. Just to work on spacing bairs. DDP into Cancels etc. I've noticed it has helped me recently so im going to keep that up. And when you get to the tournament we could always play. And it doesnt have to be Sonic dittos since I've learned Wario, Falco, Diddy recently. I'd be glad to help with a warm up.
Umby
Smash Master
When you play said friendlies, make sure you sandbag or hold back a bit.
JayBee
Smash Champion
THE FIRST EVER COMBO VIDEO COMPETITION HAS ARRIVED!!!
CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS
I am very interested in this. I'm gonna try to get footage these next two weeks for it, but as my style, its probably gonna be sonic mostly, so prepare for another Kojin/Sonic vid. in anycase I'd love your guys support as I do this on a busy scheduale. I'm going to contact some people, and I'll need them to come over my apartment this week and/or next week so i can get the footage I need. I really could use your help here. I dont have much time, but I'll try to:
Show as many other characters as I can
Redo the intro (unless you think its fine as is)
Suggestions for main music would be appreaciated.
Thanks guys for the help. hopefully I can do this on time, if not, then you will still get another video within the next few weeks. cya around!!!
CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS
I am very interested in this. I'm gonna try to get footage these next two weeks for it, but as my style, its probably gonna be sonic mostly, so prepare for another Kojin/Sonic vid. in anycase I'd love your guys support as I do this on a busy scheduale. I'm going to contact some people, and I'll need them to come over my apartment this week and/or next week so i can get the footage I need. I really could use your help here. I dont have much time, but I'll try to:
Show as many other characters as I can
Redo the intro (unless you think its fine as is)
Suggestions for main music would be appreaciated.
Thanks guys for the help. hopefully I can do this on time, if not, then you will still get another video within the next few weeks. cya around!!!
-Axis-
Smash Journeyman
About you asking for a style analysis:
All I can find of you is matches against Ganondorf, Combo Videos, and that one against Bolt (who had tired johns).
This would be good for me since I'm new to Sonic and divulging into what makes a Sonic player tick could be beneficial. Get some vids up, and I'd be happy to try my hand at it.
Also, looking forward to your combo video entry. Sonic has much better video appeal than Metaknight my friend.
All I can find of you is matches against Ganondorf, Combo Videos, and that one against Bolt (who had tired johns).
This would be good for me since I'm new to Sonic and divulging into what makes a Sonic player tick could be beneficial. Get some vids up, and I'd be happy to try my hand at it.
Also, looking forward to your combo video entry. Sonic has much better video appeal than Metaknight my friend.
4nace
Smash Ace
Hey Kojin,
Just finished watching alot of your videos haha. I didn't really like the first few until I realized they weren't meant to be combo vids, but even still, some of the "techs" seemed like random gameplay / well timed air dodges. They do get better as you learn more and definitely improve as watchable clips. I would recommend that you be a little less predictable in the air, as you don't always have to be in a ball haha, unless of course that's your style, I mean I guess it isn't bad... =P
The one thing that I can recommend for you is to get better at the game of Smash, then go back to improving your Sonic. Yes, I agree that you know alot about Sonic and are able to execute the majority of his techs consistently, but I think that your problem with tournaments lie in the fact that you started out to learn all the ins and outs of Sonic and you don't play Smash as competitively as your opponents. Your play style is fun to watch and shows your knowledge of Sonic, but it doesn't look like your spacing to win every game that you play.
I recommend that you start playing Captain Falcon, specifically against one of your slightly less skilled friend's Metaknight. Then try to go as long as you can without getting hit at all while hitting him. I found that this really helps your ability to read when situations are safe and learn the punish and run play style that Sonic excels at.
I think that with your finger skills and your knowledge of Sonic that you could easily become a top Sonic player if you want to. First, you have to become a top Smash player though =P.
- 4nace
Just finished watching alot of your videos haha. I didn't really like the first few until I realized they weren't meant to be combo vids, but even still, some of the "techs" seemed like random gameplay / well timed air dodges. They do get better as you learn more and definitely improve as watchable clips. I would recommend that you be a little less predictable in the air, as you don't always have to be in a ball haha, unless of course that's your style, I mean I guess it isn't bad... =P
The one thing that I can recommend for you is to get better at the game of Smash, then go back to improving your Sonic. Yes, I agree that you know alot about Sonic and are able to execute the majority of his techs consistently, but I think that your problem with tournaments lie in the fact that you started out to learn all the ins and outs of Sonic and you don't play Smash as competitively as your opponents. Your play style is fun to watch and shows your knowledge of Sonic, but it doesn't look like your spacing to win every game that you play.
I recommend that you start playing Captain Falcon, specifically against one of your slightly less skilled friend's Metaknight. Then try to go as long as you can without getting hit at all while hitting him. I found that this really helps your ability to read when situations are safe and learn the punish and run play style that Sonic excels at.
I think that with your finger skills and your knowledge of Sonic that you could easily become a top Sonic player if you want to. First, you have to become a top Smash player though =P.
- 4nace
JayBee
Smash Champion
recorded several friendlies last night. its for the combo video, but i'll upload a few so you can have somthing steak to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP6Wq1NItOc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FiJnxp4V1Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jfqVAPKHBk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXHLAI8vk6s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP6Wq1NItOc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FiJnxp4V1Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jfqVAPKHBk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXHLAI8vk6s
~TBS~
Smash Champion
how's the combo video competition going? Did you find everyone's vids that you wanted? i know school is being a major pain right now. btw kojin, are we still doing styles? I cant seem to find anything wrong with yours, but 4nace has a point...you gotta know what to do when Sonic's techs doesnt seem to work, and thats where player skill comes in. When it gets to that point in a match, you cant afford to mess up or it could cause you the match...and you are Sonic.
I seem to go on overdrive, according to others, and end up getting beat because im doing something wrong...i dont know what it is. >.<
I seem to go on overdrive, according to others, and end up getting beat because im doing something wrong...i dont know what it is. >.<
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
you probablly from time to time forget that sonic as a base is a pretty bad characters with a below average moveset, priority wise. and you try to get aggressive and run into easy stuff that beats you. you get walled too much by stuff like kirbys bair.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Wario has less priority than Sonic.
i think people really do underestimate having such a large amount of movement speed and often forget how useful it can be.
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
Doesn't change the fact that Sonic doesn't have as most options like other characters in this game.
Trent
Smash Champion
His Uair is sex?
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
his up air sucks, the horizontal hit has two different hitboxes, which makes it way too easy to DI out of it (usually accidentally), its not fast enough to bait or punish airdodges, and the second hit is too slow to use its priority effectively.
not to mention that wolf has the same move on the ground, and his literally does twice as much knockback and damage, even tho sonic is the fastest thing alive, which SHOULD translate to his legs being mad strong.
not to mention that wolf has the same move on the ground, and his literally does twice as much knockback and damage, even tho sonic is the fastest thing alive, which SHOULD translate to his legs being mad strong.
Kinzer
Mammy
ohumad'causeyoudon'twanttowork.
...
What were we doing, submitting videos to this thread...?
I ***** myself out to Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to8WOqqAlBU
Homing Attack just got a lot better.
...
What were we doing, submitting videos to this thread...?
I ***** myself out to Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to8WOqqAlBU
Homing Attack just got a lot better.
It asplodes people
- Joined
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da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
this ones a bit harder, but ill do it anyway.
bair sucks, as a kill move its terrible, and doesnt kill until very late as a kill move. as his strongest aerial, 13% is crap damage. Its slow as balls. and compared to the other characters in the game, its range and priority is only mediocre. and just liek all of sonics aerials it doesnt end fast enough to be able to properly bait or punish airdodges.
I can do this all day/week/month folks...
^^^
--
Bair is sex.
bair sucks, as a kill move its terrible, and doesnt kill until very late as a kill move. as his strongest aerial, 13% is crap damage. Its slow as balls. and compared to the other characters in the game, its range and priority is only mediocre. and just liek all of sonics aerials it doesnt end fast enough to be able to properly bait or punish airdodges.
I can do this all day/week/month folks...
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
Bair is the only aerial I can rely on lol... I over use that **** all day. But we get it Kid. Sonic is a bad character in this game. Many options that all suck yada yada
When will Sonic mains learn that outplaying people gets annoying. Take a page from Malcolm already lol. I'm def pickin up Falco. And when he gets good, Sonic is goin straight to that secondary slot.
When will Sonic mains learn that outplaying people gets annoying. Take a page from Malcolm already lol. I'm def pickin up Falco. And when he gets good, Sonic is goin straight to that secondary slot.
ElDominio
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2009
- Messages
- 452
I'm also seconding Falco, but I don't think I will ever trade Sonic for someone else just because I want to win. I'd rather beat some "pros" using MK with my Sonic than destroy them using another S tier.
If you main Sonic, you accept the premise of having to work for that win, the character won't win the game for you. Just know that when you beat that person, you can tell him that he's too slow...
If you main Sonic, you accept the premise of having to work for that win, the character won't win the game for you. Just know that when you beat that person, you can tell him that he's too slow...
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
lol. "pros"
From my knowledge only a few people actually know how to use MK correctly. Since they are winning tournies with him. There is no reason an MK should not get top 4 unless the top 4 is already covered with MKs or Ally joined the tourney. rofl.
I'm just tired of outplaying people for wins. My last tourney I went against a Wario with Sonic and got two stocked. Chose Falco and won. Its dumb. lol. I like the Sonic character in general though so i defiantly will keep playing as him. Scourge too good.
Mostly all the good Sonic mains are dropping the character though. Shugo, Malcolm. Who is next? There will only be a few who will stay as Sonic just because they are obsessed with something about him..Espy, Speed, KC, Kinzer etc.. Listen to Sanford Kelly. Just pick a top tier. Just pick a ****ing top tier. Look at NJ. MK..Forever. Till death Rofl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk
From my knowledge only a few people actually know how to use MK correctly. Since they are winning tournies with him. There is no reason an MK should not get top 4 unless the top 4 is already covered with MKs or Ally joined the tourney. rofl.
I'm just tired of outplaying people for wins. My last tourney I went against a Wario with Sonic and got two stocked. Chose Falco and won. Its dumb. lol. I like the Sonic character in general though so i defiantly will keep playing as him. Scourge too good.
Mostly all the good Sonic mains are dropping the character though. Shugo, Malcolm. Who is next? There will only be a few who will stay as Sonic just because they are obsessed with something about him..Espy, Speed, KC, Kinzer etc.. Listen to Sanford Kelly. Just pick a top tier. Just pick a ****ing top tier. Look at NJ. MK..Forever. Till death Rofl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk
Trent
Smash Champion
Sawnik 'till death?
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
lol if u wanna waste ur time then sure.
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
Get off my Scourge. Don't try to join me now troll.
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
I ain't joinin' nuttin, I'm taking Scourge in the right direction before he is stuck wasting in the backpocket of a random*** falco :l
UMAD CUZ IM TEH REAL SCOURGE?
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
lol. Now you know ur lying to urself by saying that. Continue to live in ur fantasy world, troll. lollll. We all know who's the real Scourge who can actually place here
ElDominio
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2009
- Messages
- 452
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
It is when you want to get recognized and no longer be some random player getting seeded horribly in pools. (was that person before) lol. But I take most of the stuff back. I do find playing as Scourge more fun. I just need somethin to back me up when I feel like my game with him is off. And for that Wario and Lucario match up I hate so much.
I've lost to the same people my last two tournies. BMX's Wario and Zucco's Lucario :/
Its funny how I can trash Azen's Lucario then Zucco comes in and just shuts me down for life. D; I think if I can just beat Wario and Lucario I would get much further. I struggle in my region just to place top 8. But there are alot of good people in MD/VA so when I leave state I feel like a god lol. But since we have so many Sonics out here they know the match up well. So these little gimmicks aren't working out here. We have to make new **** up daily. You can even ask Speed about that crap.
Sonics gimmicks can only take u so far. This region makes that very clear to Speed and me. But we got this. My Falco is no where near tourney ready anyway
I've lost to the same people my last two tournies. BMX's Wario and Zucco's Lucario :/
Its funny how I can trash Azen's Lucario then Zucco comes in and just shuts me down for life. D; I think if I can just beat Wario and Lucario I would get much further. I struggle in my region just to place top 8. But there are alot of good people in MD/VA so when I leave state I feel like a god lol. But since we have so many Sonics out here they know the match up well. So these little gimmicks aren't working out here. We have to make new **** up daily. You can even ask Speed about that crap.
Sonics gimmicks can only take u so far. This region makes that very clear to Speed and me. But we got this. My Falco is no where near tourney ready anyway
WedginatorX
Smash Champion
lol. Now you know ur lying to urself by saying that. Continue to live in ur fantasy world, troll. lollll. We all know who's the real Scourge who can actually place here
^ self explanatory
On another note, glad my green-d***ed brother is taking back his earlier comments :D (cept prolly what he said about me =_=)
Kinzer
Mammy
I don't know what's got you especially doubtful Shado. Whatever it is, it got you going far enough to get you to post on the forum and mention me. I'll take this bit of time to reply, though.
Some people also never change. Even if they get better, they still want to push their limits. For me, I get very angry if I get a ride through the bracket, only to be set-up for a false sense of security later on when I get to go head-on with the pros. I don't want to get my 5th placings by just beating some random nobodies. What bragging rights do I get from that?
I'm a masochist. I've been doing this kind of @#$% for as long as I can remember, it doesn't bother me anymore that I am always set back by something. I will not deny that the thing that may be holding me back from being a respected figure of Vegassmash is me, but that's alright. I'm not obsessed with something about Sonic, I am obsessed with Sonic.
You know, it feels like I'm at the top of the world every once when a while when I do beat people recognized in Vegassmash, to say that I could defeat them on uneven terms. That may rarely happen, but it still does and still could. Heck, just getting better in general by defeating people who use to give me trouble, I suddenly have no problems after sometime passes.
I respect the choice that people make to abandon Sonic or put him on the backburner. It sort of gives me more bragging rights when I can say that I do better in a certain field that nobody else is even going to begin to consider trenching in. I still have much work left to be done though; where I am now is probably nowhere near that level of Malcolm's Sonic in his prime, or Shugo's when he feels like @#$%ting on peoples' faces with Sonic. I'll get there though, somehow. Slowly but surely, I believe that if other people have gone through such lengths to go that far with Sonic, there's no excuse for me to quit when I haven't done anything.
I'll go further than them too, if that's at all possible. I'm a very curious person. I want to see what it's like at that level, and if there's another level of skill that no one has yet to breach. I want to be able to be that example people look up too when they think of Sonic at fullest potential.
...Don't know whta exactly I've said in this post I already haven't... It's strange.
I just wish I lived closed to you guys to see what it's like. I'd like to see how it is when a local community has been conditioned to bring out the best of me. There may be another side to this story I'm not seeing. I bet even though Speed has wanted to give up so many times, but for whatever reason that may not have a clear/rational answer, he keeps on going, no matter what happens around him.
Shado, let me at least tell you this, from one internet browser to another (that's what this technically is anyway). Unless Zucco has surpassed Azen's Lucario in skill-level, do you have a clue as to what may be stopping you from defeating another Lucario? The way I see it, it's rather strange that you don't fully resort to Falco for that, even though it would be strongly recommended that you did. Just by trying though, makes me respect you more than I can say for a few certain people. I wouldn't be mad at you for going another way now that I have seen you at least looking for a resolution.
Kinzer out.
I'll take this bit of time to reply, though.Everybody starts off at their worst. When you first get into the tourney scene, you're not thinking about who you fight or how you're seeded. I'd even go as far as to say that when you first get in on the action, you look rather forward to fighting the pros. Everybody wants to get better in something that makes them happy, such as a hobby or a competition (depends on your take, whether casual or competitive, or something in-between).
Some people also never change. Even if they get better, they still want to push their limits. For me, I get very angry if I get a ride through the bracket, only to be set-up for a false sense of security later on when I get to go head-on with the pros. I don't want to get my 5th placings by just beating some random nobodies. What bragging rights do I get from that?
I'm a masochist. I've been doing this kind of @#$% for as long as I can remember, it doesn't bother me anymore that I am always set back by something. I will not deny that the thing that may be holding me back from being a respected figure of Vegassmash is me, but that's alright. I'm not obsessed with something about Sonic, I am obsessed with Sonic.
You know, it feels like I'm at the top of the world every once when a while when I do beat people recognized in Vegassmash, to say that I could defeat them on uneven terms. That may rarely happen, but it still does and still could. Heck, just getting better in general by defeating people who use to give me trouble, I suddenly have no problems after sometime passes.
I respect the choice that people make to abandon Sonic or put him on the backburner. It sort of gives me more bragging rights when I can say that I do better in a certain field that nobody else is even going to begin to consider trenching in. I still have much work left to be done though; where I am now is probably nowhere near that level of Malcolm's Sonic in his prime, or Shugo's when he feels like @#$%ting on peoples' faces with Sonic. I'll get there though, somehow. Slowly but surely, I believe that if other people have gone through such lengths to go that far with Sonic, there's no excuse for me to quit when I haven't done anything.
I'll go further than them too, if that's at all possible. I'm a very curious person. I want to see what it's like at that level, and if there's another level of skill that no one has yet to breach. I want to be able to be that example people look up too when they think of Sonic at fullest potential.
...Don't know whta exactly I've said in this post I already haven't... It's strange.
I just wish I lived closed to you guys to see what it's like. I'd like to see how it is when a local community has been conditioned to bring out the best of me. There may be another side to this story I'm not seeing. I bet even though Speed has wanted to give up so many times, but for whatever reason that may not have a clear/rational answer, he keeps on going, no matter what happens around him.
Shado, let me at least tell you this, from one internet browser to another (that's what this technically is anyway). Unless Zucco has surpassed Azen's Lucario in skill-level, do you have a clue as to what may be stopping you from defeating another Lucario? The way I see it, it's rather strange that you don't fully resort to Falco for that, even though it would be strongly recommended that you did. Just by trying though, makes me respect you more than I can say for a few certain people. I wouldn't be mad at you for going another way now that I have seen you at least looking for a resolution.
Kinzer out.
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
Well said Kinzer. Well said. You actually make me want to push myself further in this game. I'll make sure to let you all know how it feels once i surpass Malcolm's Sonic when it was at it's prime. Malcolm says once a Sonic gets to a certain level he should go for a better character. Playing Sonic must get you smarter at this game or something. I don't know.
But I will probably always main the Anti-Steak. Falco would only come in as a last resort if anything. But I'll try a bit more before i go all Falco vs anyone.
But I will probably always main the Anti-Steak. Falco would only come in as a last resort if anything. But I'll try a bit more before i go all Falco vs anyone.
What Malcolm says makes a ton of sense. PX, Hylian, and others who got to play/watch Malcolm in action pegged my Sonic on the same level as Malcolm's Sonic, and I feel like I'm trapped in stasis because of Sonic's limitations.
Meh, I'm a tool.
Meh, I'm a tool.
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
Such a tool indeed. Wasting your time with such a bad character.
If anything stop being on the same level of Malcolm (if you really are. I have no idea. All Sonics are inconsistent including yourself) and get better than him. Also travel OoS. Like really. Only texas people know you and the sonics on these boards with some rare others who do research.
If anything stop being on the same level of Malcolm (if you really are. I have no idea. All Sonics are inconsistent including yourself) and get better than him. Also travel OoS. Like really. Only texas people know you and the sonics on these boards with some rare others who do research.
Trent
Smash Champion
Lucky enough to have tournies IN your state, all my tournies are OoS, lol..
Sonic-Rave
Smash Journeyman
Hey now don't be forgetting about Sharpz over here. Once I establish my title in GA i'm traveling baby! AND I'M GONNA GO TO TX, AND TO NJ, AND TO VEGAS AND TO OHIO AND THEN TO MD/VA TO TAKE BACK THE STEAKHOUSE!! BYAAAAAA!!!!!