LuLLo
Smash Ace
It's Dutch for ''Hail''
..And nice how Sonic moved up so much, I was thinking about picking him up the past few weeks and this might just be the push I need to play him
.
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Kojin's Sonic Tech Lab *taking another look at Speed's Sonic*
- Thread starter JayBee
- Start date
..And nice how Sonic moved up so much, I was thinking about picking him up the past few weeks and this might just be the push I need to play him
.
JMan8891
Halfrican-American
Umm... i have won EVERY low tier tourney i have ever been in... sonic ***** low tier... xD
And i always played Falcon as a fun respite for the tedious-ness that gets to be Sonic at times... like... 6hrs of friendlies... Falcon is fun with Knee, PAUUUUUUCH!!!!, and KO power.
And i always played Falcon as a fun respite for the tedious-ness that gets to be Sonic at times... like... 6hrs of friendlies... Falcon is fun with Knee, PAUUUUUUCH!!!!, and KO power.
JayBee
Smash Champion
Dash Dance Pivot videos.
I'll eventually add more (at least one more) vid of me working on this AT and applying it to sonic's game. the point is to let the viewer see the possibilities, then take what they can from it and make it thier own in thier way.
Kojin demonstrates Dash Dance Pivot with Sonic
Dash Dance Pivot into spindash cancel
and done by dnes:
Learn how to Dash Dance Pivot and True Pivot in Brawl
I'll eventually add more (at least one more) vid of me working on this AT and applying it to sonic's game. the point is to let the viewer see the possibilities, then take what they can from it and make it thier own in thier way.
Kojin demonstrates Dash Dance Pivot with Sonic
Dash Dance Pivot into spindash cancel
and done by dnes:
Learn how to Dash Dance Pivot and True Pivot in Brawl
infomon
Smash Scientist
Actually that's done by dNES386 lol
I miss dNES, where he at!?
also amazing vids as usual, Sir Kojin! I'ma go practice DDP'ing right nao 4realz
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
Sonic Master is the Master of DDP lol
infomon
Smash Scientist
^^ whatever that is, I wanna see it!!
JayBee
Smash Champion
Kuraudo
4Aerith
Dude that's some epic editing and stuff.
We gotta play offline sometime for the next vid maybe.
We gotta play offline sometime for the next vid maybe.
Umby
Smash Master
Is that like SK92 vs DSW in a dance off?
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Very nice Kojin, I left my comment on YouTube.
I noticed I was in it for a split second, LOL I saw my :093: tag XD and my name was mentioned.
lmao
I noticed I was in it for a split second, LOL I saw my :093: tag XD and my name was mentioned.
lmao
JayBee
Smash Champion
that's beacuse you are too fast lol
but sorry about that. hopefully once those vids finally come, i can make another vid and put clips of those matches in there.
I wonder if anyone got the references... can anyone tell where the inspiration for the first part of the opening sequence came from?
but sorry about that. hopefully once those vids finally come, i can make another vid and put clips of those matches in there.
I wonder if anyone got the references... can anyone tell where the inspiration for the first part of the opening sequence came from?
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
I know that that vid lacks some Shado. Which breaks my tiny blackhole of a heart.
NO! NO! THIS WON'T MAKE ME EAT MY TROUBLES AWAY!
NO! NO! THIS WON'T MAKE ME EAT MY TROUBLES AWAY!
Kinzer
Mammy
The opening looked very good but... if you're referring to something, I'm not catching on. How about dropping a hint for those who are too slow? :/
JayBee
Smash Champion
no. it will be too easy if i did that.
PhoenixoKaZe
Smash Ace
Me like the new vid xD ^^
JayBee
Smash Champion
I've decided to place a sister thread in the combo video section of smashboards. Welcome to KojinSagara Productions is a thead that will work more for the video projects i complete or have a major part in. Its not only for sonic vids, and i plan to do other characters soon. I'll still inform of vids here, but only for sonic, as not to clutter up the sonic boards with metaknight vids and such (lol) please show your support by visiting the thread, and donating vids to me. thanks.
steak+8
steak+8
platiepoos
Smash Apprentice
Here's something I've noticed, and it seems to be a noticeable contradiction between my playstyle and those of top Sonics.
Most Sonic's save their bair for the kill, or at least attempt to. Most of the time it's usefulness will win out over not using it, but it's still a rule that appears to be followed closely.
I, on the other hand, use my bair to space quite liberally. In fact, it's one of my most commonly used moves. Rather than use it for kills other than gimps, I use my fair for this purpose. Fair is for one, obviously faster than the bair. It can be executed quickly from a short hop making it much easier to punish with, considering you don't have to RAR. The same thing about RAR'ing can also be applied to edgeguarding with the fair, and this is all I see Sonic's use this move for minus comboing out of SDR. (I do however, switch the roles of the two moves when fighting characters with amazing recoveries since bair is more likely to outright kill.)
When fair doesn't kill, it set's up an edgeguard with fairs/bairs/dairs perfectly. for this reason I like to save my fair.
Pros
-Faster, better for punishing
-Does not require a RAR to be used on the opponent
-Sends hit enemies at low trajectories
Cons
-Much more landing lag when FFed (though it would be better to FF a bair anyway)
-Less overall knockback, but I feel that trajectory makes up for this.
Overall, I feel the pros outweigh the cons. Please, share your opinion on this.
EDIT: btw Kojin, this is probably my favorite thread on the Sonic boards.
If you're still analyzing playstyles, might I suggest Wes?
Most Sonic's save their bair for the kill, or at least attempt to. Most of the time it's usefulness will win out over not using it, but it's still a rule that appears to be followed closely.
I, on the other hand, use my bair to space quite liberally. In fact, it's one of my most commonly used moves. Rather than use it for kills other than gimps, I use my fair for this purpose. Fair is for one, obviously faster than the bair. It can be executed quickly from a short hop making it much easier to punish with, considering you don't have to RAR. The same thing about RAR'ing can also be applied to edgeguarding with the fair, and this is all I see Sonic's use this move for minus comboing out of SDR. (I do however, switch the roles of the two moves when fighting characters with amazing recoveries since bair is more likely to outright kill.)
When fair doesn't kill, it set's up an edgeguard with fairs/bairs/dairs perfectly. for this reason I like to save my fair.
Pros
-Faster, better for punishing
-Does not require a RAR to be used on the opponent
-Sends hit enemies at low trajectories
Cons
-Much more landing lag when FFed (though it would be better to FF a bair anyway)
-Less overall knockback, but I feel that trajectory makes up for this.
Overall, I feel the pros outweigh the cons. Please, share your opinion on this.
EDIT: btw Kojin, this is probably my favorite thread on the Sonic boards.
If you're still analyzing playstyles, might I suggest Wes?
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Sonic's spam Bair all the time for spacing from what I can tell O_o
Especially PA Sonics, lol
Fair is also highly spammable because it's such a good aerial punisher. Very quick and does good damage.
Especially PA Sonics, lol
Fair is also highly spammable because it's such a good aerial punisher. Very quick and does good damage.
platiepoos
Smash Apprentice
Thanks. Maybe I just got the impression that they were doing it anyway.
Still, how would you rate the effectiveness of the playstyle mentioned above when it comes to fair and bair?
And I don't think Kojin's analyzing playstyles anymore.
Still, how would you rate the effectiveness of the playstyle mentioned above when it comes to fair and bair?
And I don't think Kojin's analyzing playstyles anymore.
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Are you saying use the Bair to rack up damage, and the Fair to edgeguard/kill? If so...that's not a very good tactic.
Bair has more knockback than the Fair, but it's slower. Spamming Fair is more suggested because of how quickly it can punish in the air and rack up damage. It's also pretty easy to string together Fairs/Uairs. Bair is good as a RAR SHFF for spacing like you said, but saving the Fair? Nah.
Not only that, but even if you went for the Fair to edgeguard, it can be SDI'd out of. Sonic's Fair is multiple hit move and you can SDI out of it if the opponent is smart enough to. Bair however is a one hit, higher knockback move that is more likely to kill offstage then Fair is.
Also, I don't see RARing as a con. It's not that difficult to perform, and RAR'd Bairs are sexy as ****.
I appreciate the brainstorming though ^_^ it's a good thought process, but that tactic just wouldn't work :/
Bair has more knockback than the Fair, but it's slower. Spamming Fair is more suggested because of how quickly it can punish in the air and rack up damage. It's also pretty easy to string together Fairs/Uairs. Bair is good as a RAR SHFF for spacing like you said, but saving the Fair? Nah.
Not only that, but even if you went for the Fair to edgeguard, it can be SDI'd out of. Sonic's Fair is multiple hit move and you can SDI out of it if the opponent is smart enough to. Bair however is a one hit, higher knockback move that is more likely to kill offstage then Fair is.
Also, I don't see RARing as a con. It's not that difficult to perform, and RAR'd Bairs are sexy as ****.
I appreciate the brainstorming though ^_^ it's a good thought process, but that tactic just wouldn't work :/
infomon
Smash Scientist
It's all about spacing them with Bair, so that when they try and come in you wreck them with Fair which comes out so fast and will be unexpected.
JayBee
Smash Champion
^exactly.
fair is also a prime ender in Spin dash combos which also aids in making your kill moves stronger faster, since a fair after a spin dash special is basically garenteed. Bair also has less lag at the end, leaving you not as open. on heavies, if you are good with spacing, oyu can alco string multiple fairs together if the opponent isn't DIing correctly.
Next Discusison: have you been using Dsmash to avoid attacks? I've been tinkering with buffering the control stick to make sonic face away right before the Dsmash, since the first attack sends him forward. he may be able to avoid grabs and tilts with this move. also consider that he gets smaller as well.
Down Smash as a counter move? discuss.
Also, Someone suggested more playstyle analysis. I guess I can do that now school is out for a few weeks. Start naming people, and I'll decide which one to do first. We can even reevaluate previously done styles, if you wish.
PS: It looks like right now, I'm the third best sonic in VA/MD, behind Shado and Speed (Sonic Master), but i seem to know more about sonic than they do, which gives me a chance to change things. beware shado. Technically im the best in VA, i think. not that i care as much. im more concerned with the rivalry I'm gonna initiate between me Shado and Speed, and since they clearly don't know the meta matchup, if i have to in a tourney, i know what I'll have to do... go MetalSonic.
You hear that Shado? learn the **** matchup already!!!
Also, I didn't even know Chibo quit Rob. what's that about? Maybe someone can make him go Sonic... lol
-things i've been practicing lately:
1: banana tricks with sonic. (i need to get a vid up, i'm doing stupid things)
2: DSmash IASA frames practice and buffering beforehand.
3: Bair>fall thru upair on platforms like battlefield.
4: learning a more defensive style against characters like snake. (It seems to work) As well as paying more attention to % against characters like Wario and holding off aggression to force approach
5: dodgeing projectiles without approaching (People seem to think that projecitles auto win against sonic, who is very mobile. i need to prove this wrong. One match against a Falco, I dodged so many lasers he complemented me for it. I need to work on this to discourage sch spamtastic tacitcs...)
I also plan on uploading vids of technical aspects of sonic fo rothers to practice, kinda like smash homework (eww bad choice of words) so sonic's can become more techincal, like what i did with the DDP vids (you guys ARE practicing them, right?!)
fair is also a prime ender in Spin dash combos which also aids in making your kill moves stronger faster, since a fair after a spin dash special is basically garenteed. Bair also has less lag at the end, leaving you not as open. on heavies, if you are good with spacing, oyu can alco string multiple fairs together if the opponent isn't DIing correctly.
Next Discusison: have you been using Dsmash to avoid attacks? I've been tinkering with buffering the control stick to make sonic face away right before the Dsmash, since the first attack sends him forward. he may be able to avoid grabs and tilts with this move. also consider that he gets smaller as well.
Down Smash as a counter move? discuss.
Also, Someone suggested more playstyle analysis. I guess I can do that now school is out for a few weeks. Start naming people, and I'll decide which one to do first. We can even reevaluate previously done styles, if you wish.
PS: It looks like right now, I'm the third best sonic in VA/MD, behind Shado and Speed (Sonic Master), but i seem to know more about sonic than they do, which gives me a chance to change things. beware shado. Technically im the best in VA, i think. not that i care as much. im more concerned with the rivalry I'm gonna initiate between me Shado and Speed, and since they clearly don't know the meta matchup, if i have to in a tourney, i know what I'll have to do... go MetalSonic.
You hear that Shado? learn the **** matchup already!!!
Also, I didn't even know Chibo quit Rob. what's that about? Maybe someone can make him go Sonic... lol
-things i've been practicing lately:
1: banana tricks with sonic. (i need to get a vid up, i'm doing stupid things)
2: DSmash IASA frames practice and buffering beforehand.
3: Bair>fall thru upair on platforms like battlefield.
4: learning a more defensive style against characters like snake. (It seems to work) As well as paying more attention to % against characters like Wario and holding off aggression to force approach
5: dodgeing projectiles without approaching (People seem to think that projecitles auto win against sonic, who is very mobile. i need to prove this wrong. One match against a Falco, I dodged so many lasers he complemented me for it. I need to work on this to discourage sch spamtastic tacitcs...)
I also plan on uploading vids of technical aspects of sonic fo rothers to practice, kinda like smash homework (eww bad choice of words) so sonic's can become more techincal, like what i did with the DDP vids (you guys ARE practicing them, right?!)
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
I've been working on SLOW.
It's great to do spincharge, come quickly and just do a SLOW once or twice. Not too useful, but flashy.
It's great to do spincharge, come quickly and just do a SLOW once or twice. Not too useful, but flashy.
~TBS~
Smash Champion
guys, i dont know if you noticed, but I literally use SLOW in my stlye. I think its very useful, man. Its just annoying to do it vs MK's and that tornado stopping it...<_<
Chis
Finally a legend
Sounds intersting Kojin, howe often does that work? Yeah I've been trying to to DDP, getting better.
Also, fast fall Uair so you just hit with the first kick > up tilt/grab? Well, I did this to SL once of wifi minus the up tilt.
Also, fast fall Uair so you just hit with the first kick > up tilt/grab? Well, I did this to SL once of wifi minus the up tilt.
It isn't guaranteed to do anything though. nice if you catch them by surprise or if they airdodge but otherwise, you just get hit.
cause otherwise
we'd have U-air1 > F-smash as a kill combo.
:[
~TBS~
Smash Champion
wait. i thought that Uair>Utilt was guaranteed? or is DI a factor in this?
And yes Kojin, I am trying to find more options for DDP. At the tourney, peeps where getting owned with it.
And yes Kojin, I am trying to find more options for DDP. At the tourney, peeps where getting owned with it.
Chis
Finally a legend
Whoops, I meant from a platform Tenki. A platform drop Uair.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
They still have a chance to GTFO I think but it's pretty limited. Utilt is ALMOST guaranteed.
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Uair 1>Utilt is a Brawl combo.
Brawl combo: A combo that is escapable but has a very high chance of hitting due to it being hard to DI and requires very high reaction time.
Brawl combo: A combo that is escapable but has a very high chance of hitting due to it being hard to DI and requires very high reaction time.
platiepoos
Smash Apprentice
fix'dJayBee said:
Anyway, I've been using dsmash for a while to punish players slow on grabs if my bair eats a shield, since I'll already be facing the appropriate direction to roll away upon startup. Does anyone know what the visual cue is to buffer a dsmash correctly, since I don't think I've been doing it correctly as of late?
On another note pertaining to Sonic's dsmash, has anyone ever taken advantage of the extreme similarities between the charging state animations of dsmash and SD/SC? The idea occurred to me recently, but I don't currently have access to a wii (or an opponent for that matter >.<) to test the effectiveness of mixing in charged dsmashes with your Spin Dash Cancels.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Welcome to Sonic circa March 2008. XD
platiepoos
Smash Apprentice
Check my join date. I'm barely late. :3
Just never seen it, that's all.
Also, noticing the new title, I suggest Wes again.
Or Anther, but I hear his Sonic is very "basic."
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Sonic excels at the basics. Anther had a very solid Sonic. Remember Holy's Sonic? I'll let Tenki bring up what Ally said about the differences at first with mindgames and such. Anther's Sonic was effective not Flashy.
platiepoos
Smash Apprentice
Er........not about dsmashes but..........
Can someone tell me wtf happened at 4:00 in Magnum's combo vid? o_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZg7WL5UB1s&feature=related
Can someone tell me wtf happened at 4:00 in Magnum's combo vid? o_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZg7WL5UB1s&feature=related
Greenstreet
Smash Champion
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Watching on a normal quality on a sub-par computer, but I'd say it's just a spot-dodged F-air at exactly 4:00.
Feel free to prove me wrong though.
Can't explain the mechanics of 4:03 though, which you are referring to. Would be near impossible to reproduce..
Feel free to prove me wrong though.
Can't explain the mechanics of 4:03 though, which you are referring to. Would be near impossible to reproduce..