Kojin's Sonic Tech Lab *taking another look at Speed's Sonic*

[JayBee]

Im terri-late,

Thanx for everything Kojin.

I have to agree, i know when i have hit my "walls' myself, its no fun.

I consistently place top 5, but we rarley get large tournies that i can hit up do to A a fiancee, and B Work/school johns. But it was never easy.

But i have strived to tell the character weaknesses to better ppl's understanding, to force me past that plateau, which has made me a better sonic and a better player. But i know exactly what you mean.

And frankly, all my alternates suck, with a lulzingly good C Falcon just because i went knee crazy after Steak of the North Star, lol

I wish you the best of luck in whatever it is that you do kind sir

yeah, my alternates aren't that great as my sonic technically, because of obvious reasons, but that needs to change. Im starting to like Zero Suit a lot now. Bolt's telling me to work solely on metaknight, and if i can just not get gimped as much my olimar wouldn't be that bad either. I'm gonna work on them for a while until they are at least close to what level of skill Sonic is for me, before I come back, malcolm. I still want to play you in sonic dittos though.

 

[~TBS~]

OMG Kojin! DONT LEAVE. I am experiencing the same exact thing you are right now(even if i did only go to 1 tourney) Come on man, you did so much! Your vids of Sonic were Steaklicious, and the combo vids? dont even get me started. We all need to have each others back in case if we do get a little down from losing to people we shouldnt...

But, its your decision, even though i dont want it to happen. Just keep the faith, buddy.
Thanks for everything, and Steak. And that little quote on why the high/top tiers win...I'll make them pay for this. I hope to see you one day, and when we do, lets do steak dittos for fun.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Why *****s actin like you cant be friends with a dude anymore if he switches mains.

He wants to win more so hes picking a better character... I dont see the huge issue here...

And the only reason anybody else here isnt better with any of their non sonic characters is simply because they dont play them enough.

*****s need to quit with the drama bombs is all im sayin...

 

[Tenki]

trufax

it's like your friend is moving and everyone's throwing a goodbye party

when he's moving 2 houses down the street.

it's okay, lol.

 

[~TBS~]

GD it KID. Kojin is still beast with me, he is too good. I dont have a problem with it at all, really. Its his decision to win, like everyone else said lol.

Its okay.

 

[Chis]

We love you Kojin!!!!!





But yeah, what will happen to this thread now? Drop of the pages, and stuff? And yeah, Kid has a point. Well, as long as we see you every now and then, it's all good.

 

[DanGR]

I thought I would post this here.

After seeing ZSS' infinite on Rob, I set out to find out if any other characters could do a similar combo/infinite on any other character. Well, I began using Sonic and I eventually was able to get a footstool->lagless dair! I set up the footstool by using a falling upair, but only having the first part hit.

So... upair (first part)-> jump->footstool->lagless dair.

If you can get the footstool and do the dair correctly to not hit Rob (I'm not exactly sure how I got it to work because I couldn't record it), then you've got yourself a guaranteed jab lock lock setup. I tried for about 30 more minutes to recreate it, but I couldn't...

Well, that's about it.

 

[Espy Rose]

I thought I would post this here.

After seeing ZSS' infinite on Rob, I set out to find out if any other characters could do a similar combo/infinite on any other character. Well, I began using Sonic and I eventually was able to get a footstool->lagless dair! I set up the footstool by using a falling upair, but only having the first part hit.

So... upair (first part)-> jump->footstool->lagless dair.

If you can get the footstool and do the dair correctly to not hit Rob (I'm not exactly sure how I got it to work because I couldn't record it), then you've got yourself a guaranteed jab lock lock setup. I tried for about 30 more minutes to recreate it, but I couldn't...

Well, that's about it.

I call shenanigans. You cannot footstool ROB after the initial hit of an uair because of how much lag there is the moment you lag upon using the uair. The ROB would surely be able to AD, use an aerial, or double jump out of the way.

Besides, there's already a jab lock setup. ASC > FSJ > FF nair, or SD > FSJ > FF nair.

 

[DanGR]

I call shenanigans. You cannot footstool ROB after the initial hit of an uair because of how much lag there is the moment you lag upon using the uair. The ROB would surely be able to AD, use an aerial, or double jump out of the way.

Besides, there's already a jab lock setup. ASC > FSJ > FF nair, or SD > FSJ > FF nair.

It's more of a surprise thing I suppose. Lets say you run at an opponent-> short hop over their head-> falling upair. They may not react in time or somethin. I dunno. It's not a true combo, but neither is jab->grab with falcon or jab->upb with luigi. *shrugs*

 

[Tenki]

was the ROB in Stop mode in training mode by any chance?

It's very possible to miss the D-air on him if he was pulling towards the center of the stage and you were facing away, and some combination of that.

Either way, the other setup is alot easier to land since you can actually control Sonic's fall during the N-air lol.

Thanks for the thought though ;]

 

[DanGR]

was the ROB in Stop mode in training mode by any chance?

It's very possible to miss the D-air on him if he was pulling towards the center of the stage and you were facing away, and some combination of that.

Either way, the other setup is alot easier to land since you can actually control Sonic's fall during the N-air lol.

Thanks for the thought though ;]

It was Rob in stop mode. I'm absolutely positive I used a falling upair, then footstooled->lagless dair. I remember seeing the same weird animation that ZSS' footstool dair does when she does her infinite.

When you hit Rob with the first part of the upair, he always gets pulled in towards Sonic. The footstool resets his postion though, making him fall directly below Sonic every time (and thus in range of a dair). I'm fairly certain the hitbox on the dair doesn't come out when it's lagless.

Food for though I guess. Maybe y'all will find a use for it. :/

Is ASC-> FSJ-> FF->ASC->FSJ plausible by any chance? It was too difficult for me to get the second FSJ when I tried earlier.

 

[Browny]

lmao that would be the best combo ever ahahahaha

i doubt it works though

 

[Tenki]

It was Rob in stop mode. I'm absolutely positive I used a falling upair, then footstooled->lagless dair. I remember seeing the same weird animation that ZSS' footstool dair does when she does her infinite.

When you hit Rob with the first part of the upair, he always gets pulled in towards Sonic. The footstool resets his postion though, making him fall directly below Sonic every time (and thus in range of a dair). I'm fairly certain the hitbox on the dair doesn't come out when it's lagless.

Food for though I guess. Maybe y'all will find a use for it. :/

Is ASC-> FSJ-> FF->ASC->FSJ plausible by any chance? It was too difficult for me to get the second FSJ when I tried earlier.

The problem is that we still have to wait for the U-air to finish in order to double jump (unless you've found some sort of U-air cancel, lol) so if you were in midair, it'd be better to do it with the 2nd hit. And even moreso if you were on the ground, because U-air has MASSIVE "IASA-landing" frames that start pretty much as soon as the 2nd hitbox disappears.

Anyway, the ASC>FSJ> FF > ASC>FSJ won't work because of this:

what really happens is

ASC > DJ > FSJ > FF > ASC > ...

and Sonic doesn't regain the double jump until he lands or hits a spring, so there won't be any footstools after the first one, lol.

again, thanks for the thoughts ;p


however, this does sound similar to the SLOW/"Sonic shuttle loop" where we continuously do grounded down-B > jump > FSJ chains on someone, lol

 

[Kinzer]

Just because Kojin is out of commission still doesn't mean we can't do work/I can learn some new tech stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY729nVuf2U&eurl=http://xat.com/bluesteak&feature=player_embedded

Notice anything about that video?

If you know what stands out, then maybe somebody can help me come up with an answer.

Which of Sonic's attacks can do that? The answer is most likely throws, but is there anything else that can do that? How about some of Sonic's standard non-grab attacks, what can cause that to the same degree? How about finding out how strict the timing is?

I'm sure a lot of you have done or seen this at least once and play on Frigate quite often, so this would be pretty sweet to know when you are granted to the chance to use it.

also as of sometime ago in the Xatroom, Yoshi's Island: Brawl is now officially renamed to Angel Island Zone, in the name of Steak. If you have yet to make this one of if not your main starter/neutral/cp stage, do work.

 

[darkNES386]

Unless you're referring to holding someone when the stage rotates... I have no clue what we're supposed to be looking for.

Does this have something to do with iSDR?

 

[Tenki]

dj brought up the D-throw **** on that stage before.
But what bothers me is that Shado's throw worked (well, it sent him under the stage) and Kojin's throw failed.

Neither throw was completed, the stage transition/rotation was exactly the same. Both players' grabs were interrupted, forcing a 'ground'/'pummel release'-like fall for the person being grabbed (alot like the Brinstar one).

The only differences were Shado's placement (left side of the stage) compared with Kojin's (center of the stage) and that Shado used U-throw while Kojin used D-throw.

I haven't tried it yet, but I think it might have been a combination of both factors.

I think when DJ described it, he said he timed the D-throw to go off as the stage turned. This would have Sonic on the ground (which is how you usually end up randomly high in the air, cause the stage pushes you up as it goes to next phase) and Ganondorf in the air, so the stage wouldn't be pulling Ganon as he fell- and he'd stay in place as the level rotated and pushed him under.
Shado did U-throw, and that small bit of time where the opponent is in the air/on Sonic's back might count as being 'in the air', so they don't move with you/the stage.

The second factor I think is placement. It's really subtle and I didn't really pay attention to it before, but during the level change (at least, from that phase), the next stage comes from the upper left side and falls into place. This means that if you are either low in the air on the left side (throw setup), or anywhere near the left blast zone, you'll probably get kicked under the stage.
That's all I could gather from it.

Also, throws are the best to do this with, because you get to control the timing and guarantee the opponent being 'in the air'.

 

[JayBee]

everything possible you could do wrong, i did it in these dittos against shado. but its still steak, so ...

 

[Chis]

So, that thing on ROB (side b > foot stool > ff nair > jab lock), can it work on other characters?

 

[Browny]

nope, only robs has the wird FSJ animation

although I swear ive managed the mini-fsj (like which happens to rob) on DDD a few times >_>

 

[JayBee]

i have a question for everyone:

if Kojin had a paypal account, what would be the possibility of you making donations to KojinSagara productions?

I've been able to do these smash projects due to school computers, and the generosity of people sending me vids/letting me use thier recording equippment, but I'd like to be able to step up not only the quality but the ability to get the footage when i want to. I've wanted to show vids of other things as well (ZSS matches, sonic related stuff) but i can't because i honestly dont have any of the stuff t do it.

But people make donations through paypal all the time, right? so i figured that maybe it would help get me the things i need. so yeah, the purpose would be for video related stuff.

discuss. steak.

 

[Jim Morrison]

You beggar

I has no paypal.
In all honesty, I wouldn't do it either, but maybe other Sonics are more willing.

 

[Kinzer]

I'm not so sure my mom would be fond of the idea to send money electronically to what is for her some stranger from the internet who is also begging for mnoey for "personal" reasons.

Note I'm not saying that, I'm telling you what response I would get if I openly asked her about it. :/

 

[Isatis]

i have a question for everyone:

if Kojin had a paypal account, what would be the possibility of you making donations to KojinSagara productions?

I've been able to do these smash projects due to school computers, and the generosity of people sending me vids/letting me use thier recording equippment, but I'd like to be able to step up not only the quality but the ability to get the footage when i want to. I've wanted to show vids of other things as well (ZSS matches, sonic related stuff) but i can't because i honestly dont have any of the stuff t do it.

But people make donations through paypal all the time, right? so i figured that maybe it would help get me the things i need. so yeah, the purpose would be for video related stuff.

discuss. steak.

I can't donate either, but for me it's only because of money problems going on atm Once it's sorted out I can probably donate some.

If you do need stuff recorded, Sonic mains get top priority for vids, so hit me up.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

On the frigate/throw thing, could port priority have anything to do with why one throw works and the other didn't?

 

[JayBee]

i have no clue at all. see about it and let the lab know.

@bionic sonic: if you can, just visit me for training. if you want to know directions, PM me, im at the buchanan apartments in arlington, and its so eay to get there if you metro to crystal city.


working on some movement stuff btw way. If I could record then i'd have it up but i can't. Once i've mastered some stuff i may come back and reopen the Lab again.

 

[Camalange]

I have an idea.


Instead of just randomly donating money over the internet, why don't we design totally rad T-Shirts? We can see who makes the best designs, and the best ones can be turned into shirts that we can sell on sites like cafepress and junk.

I'd buy a shirt with Haunter and A1 steak sauce on it.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I'm totally up fro what Cam's saying i made the shirts for my schools log and win out of everyone there so i hope you guys will like my design if we decide to do this.

 

[Kinzer]

Nothing can match the awesome of Shugo's balls in OS's face right now.

C-C-C-C-Check it out if you haven't already, and if you have look at it again da****.

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=82457

Don't forgot to read the blog on Chains' account too, it's all a part of the Master Plan.

*Queues the E.G.G.M.A.N. song.*

...JB will have to stick with Paypal for now I'm sorry to say, this shizz is just too epic.

 

[Isatis]

@bionic sonic: if you can, just visit me for training. if you want to know directions, PM me, im at the buchanan apartments in arlington, and its so eay to get there if you metro to crystal city.

Between my high school classes and my evening classes, I don't have that much time to train. =/ That'll change by June though.

EDIT: If you can put your replays on the SD card, upload them (.bin's) and send me a PM, I can record it and PM back raw videos.

 

[Kinzer]

I love how Brawl doesn't require any/little practice to do decent at, and with just simple minutes of going into training mode and working that tech down so that it becomes muscle memory, you'll do excellent.

That's not an insult to the game BTW, I'm just telling you how I do.

 

[Matador]

<---is super late

Don't quit Kojin. Even after seeing Malcolm's Sonic in action and playing Shado's so often YOUR Sonic still amazed me. We only played once at BTYF and that's one of the things I really regret because I know there was alot I could learn from you as a Sonic dabbler and a Mario main.

I'm not sure how often you attend tourneys and play great players, but I know for a fact that way less technical players than you or me do well in tourneys because of how often they play other great players. That, to me, seems like the sure fire way to be great at this game with any character. Experience. I know that I, for one, need it desperately.

Of course, Shado could also be right. This break may actually be the best thing you could ever do for you Sonic. When you come back, your ideas will be fresh, your predictability will be gone, and your thinking will be different. At most, take a break but please don't quit. I hate when players like us who have something to prove become frustrated with the easier high tiers and the players who use them. We're supposed to be the Naruto's and Rocklee's of the story.

 

[BlueTerrorist]

Won't you look at my Sonic please? I won a tourney .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xskGXGCdpg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr2FH5c98pY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpJFxIx7un4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXkY6ytOMRg&feature=related

There .

 

[RenegadeRaven]

Ewww... vs Ike...

 

[da K.I.D.]

I love how Brawl doesn't require any/little practice to do decent at, and with just simple minutes of going into training mode and working that tech down so that it becomes muscle memory, you'll do excellent.

That's not an insult to the game BTW, I'm just telling you how I do.

thats why youre bad

 

[Kinzer]

You just posted in this thread to quote a post long ago?

What is the point, don't you have better things to do than try and ridicule me?

Besides, it's really true, I don't practice and yet I still do better than 1/2 the entrants at my tourneys a majority of the time.

 

[RenegadeRaven]

Natural talent

 

[Hidden MachineS]

So do better than the other half.

 

[aeghrur]

Kinzer's right.
You don't need practice to be good at brawl.
You need experience.

 

[JayBee]

Im back, and i got some very nice things to discuss.

Some more tidbits to share wit you guys. I've been working on sonic when i could and thought of some interesting things. then, some things happend randomly, and i wanted to see if you can replicate them.

1. Remember that DDD ledge "spike" on the right side of BF? You can also do this during the third part of Castle Siege, on the right side of the tilting boulder. its a bit different though, flies down in an wierd angle.

2. tilting th econtrol stick during side B not only affects your hop, but also effects the way you drop off an edge/platform. in particular note is if hold back during the hop until right before you touch ground. when you SDR off a platform, you will drop completely vertical, with no horizontal momentum, at least until to tilt the control stick again. i havent fully thought of possibiliites yet, so discuss.

3. a wierd glitch in Frigate involving the spin dash. For some reason, if the stage transitions during the turnaround animation of spin dash, if sonic is caught in mid air after the flip, the SDR becomes an stationary ASC that hovers in place until the spin eventually wears off.
i pulled it off once today, so test it and discuss. i don't know any additional properties that occur during this glitch.

4. Upsmash/Downsmash cancel: on Green Greens, you can cancel these moves when sonic is on non explosive desructable item. that's right, you guessed it. stand on a yellow block, and dsmash. the block is destroyed, and with no ground, sonic goes into falling stance, and the smash is cancelled completely. what nice about this is that due to the movement of Dsmash on the first hit, you get tossed forward, and you can use that movement to your advantage to do an attack, grab, aerial, or whatever, as you quickly reach the ground.


Discuss. this is a lot of info, and i'd appreciate it if you test these out as well.

 

[Kinzer]

Welcome back to the ranks Kojin!

Also you're on to something with that 4th thing. Technically since you're standing on destructible obects and using an attack to destroy it you'll cancel the attack and immediately be considered in the air once the blocks disappear. You probably will get the same effect if you happen to destroy the statues on the 2nd stage of castle Siege. I've known about this for a while but never really though of using it for anything other than decay.