Kirby's Best and Worst Move

[BitBitio]

Hey guys! Just an interesting concept I've been thinking about, what are Kirby's best and worst moves? I personally think Dtilt is his best because it lowers his hurtbox, has amazing speed and safety, and incredible reward on hit. It was close between this and his other tilts, but this one is just the best combination of speed, reward, safety, and utility, and IMHO one of the best Dtilts in the game! As for his worst, Dair actually takes the cake. As Kirby's meta has progressed, we've become fully aware that the reward of this move is very low, while the risk is way high. You may think "but wait BitBitio, it's a combo starter, shield poke, and edgeguard tool. True, and I'm not saying the move isn't useful, it's just that it's niche uses are generally outclassed by his other aerials-All of his other aerials, if used while falling, have a greater frame advantage for Kirby than Dair's landing hit, meaning that he can combo better with any other aerial than Dair for low to mid-high percents. Additionally, it's way easier to live offstage after being hit by it than you think, further reducing its utility. Nair beats it out both as a combo tool and even an edgeguard tool in some circumstances, with lower startup and landing lag, comparable endlag, big hitboxes, and good power. Is Dair outright bad? No, it's just mediocre. Kirby has a great moveset, but this Dair just has the least utility and reward, while not gaining in safety. Other contenders like Jab and Hammer have lower risk and higher reward, respectively, while possessing similar amounts of the other to Dair.

Anyway, feel free to post your own opinion on this, but keep it Smash-related and be nice.

P.S, on the poll, I couldn't figure out how to make two questions, so just resubmit your vote if you misunderstood the instructions for voting.

 

[Deleted member]

..........

 

[BitBitio]

Sorry, I just can’t see dair being Kirby’s worst move. It does have a 16 frame start up (I think) which is pretty bad fair an aerial, but the reward you get by landing it make up for it. At low percents it connects into all of his tilts, which can be extended to start combos. He can also forward throw > dair to get people off stage at lowish percents. You could argue that the start up just isn’t worth it when you have fair and nair to start combos, but dair is just much easier to land when you’ve already been camping in the air. For example, if you’re floating above an up tilt spamming lucina, a dair would be a more consistent option than a fast fall nair (mostly because when you fast fall the nair pretty much depends on the lucina). There’s also offstage dair. I don’t think much needs to be said here... if an opponent burns their double jump and they get tapped, it’s a stock at any percent. At around 50 you can also double dair people. So while our dair > footstool and dair > down smash days are over, Kirby can still use dair as a definitely not worse part of his move-set.

P.S. dair + copy abilities can get you some early and stylish kills

I think you’re overrating dair.

https://twitter.com/Phan777om/status/1212186449828646914?s=20

https://t.co/SJ0917ljU1?amp=1

Also, Dair has 18 frames of startup.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Is there actually a reason why Hammer Flip has an better overall effect on Kirby's moveset over D-Air...

Cause unless there's a super secret good use for it that Kirby mains know about but never tell anyone, then I can't see this at all.

 

[K=RB2]

Is there actually a reason why Hammer Flip has an better overall effect on Kirby's moveset over D-Air...

Cause unless there's a super secret good use for it that Kirby mains know about but never tell anyone, then I can't see this at all.

I think it’s because the Stone at least functions somewhat at edgeguarding and being a “sometimes” landing tool, and hammer can intercept linear recoveries and cover getup options. They at least do what they’re supposed to do.
Down air is one of the slowest aerials in the game (frame 18) and the spike cannot kill characters like Puff at 150 near the ledge. While dair, again, exploits predictable recoveries, it can’t kill when pretty much all of his other ones do the job sooner. His nair is probably the best one to finish off people offstage. It’s also the least safe one on shield, again because of the lengthy startup and audio cue. At high percents onstage, if you hit it sets up a tech situation, to which guessing games do not favor Kirby.

 

[Ethan Weegee]

I think it’s because the Stone at least functions somewhat at edgeguarding and being a “sometimes” landing tool, and hammer can intercept linear recoveries and cover getup options. They at least do what they’re supposed to do.
Down air is one of the slowest aerials in the game (frame 18) and the spike cannot kill characters like Puff at 150 near the ledge. While dair, again, exploits predictable recoveries, it can’t kill when pretty much all of his other ones do the job sooner. His nair is probably the best one to finish off people offstage. It’s also the least safe one on shield, again because of the lengthy startup and audio cue. At high percents onstage, if you hit it sets up a tech situation, to which guessing games do not favor Kirby.

Stone is pretty reactable and punishable if you miss. In my opinion, that's his worst move. Down air is useful in some combos we have, which is more mileage than stone gets us on average.

 

[BitBitio]

Stone has some utility in escaping juggles, it has merit as an edgeguarding tool, and also has some mixup utility on the ground to counteract projectiles and surprise opponents. Nobody expects it, everyone expects dair. I will concede that dair may not be Kirby’s worst move, but certainly close to it.

 

[Kewkky]

SideB is by far his worst move. At least downB can be useful sometimes, while sideB is never useful (unless you're styling in friendlies or against a weaker opponent, or the opponent's shield broke and you reacted fast).

 

[Ethan Weegee]

Hammer can be used to two frame, reading ledge options, and shield break.

 

[Kewkky]

Hammer can be used to two frame, reading ledge options, and shield break.

What is two-framing?

As for ledge options, there's better ones for sure that are safer. Shield grabbing, for example, due to ledge getups being quute safe in this game.

Shield break... I dunno, it feels risky to aim at an opponent's shield when your attack is so linear, and your movement so limited when charging. It doesn't even have the range to compensate for how unsafe it is either.

 

[BitBitio]

What is two-framing?

As for ledge options, there's better ones for sure that are safer. Shield grabbing, for example, due to ledge getups being quute safe in this game.

Shield break... I dunno, it feels risky to aim at an opponent's shield when your attack is so linear, and your movement so limited when charging. It doesn't even have the range to compensate for how unsafe it is either.

Two framing is a sort of punish. Basically, when your opponent grabs the ledge, there are two frames of vulnerability where you can attack the opponent before they get ledge intangibility. If you have an attack like Wolf’s down smash or King Dedede’s dash attack whose hitboxes hit below the ledge, you can punish the opponent and knock them back offstage. The official term is “two-frame punish” but two framing is the nickname.

 

[Shadow Keebey]

I feel like Kirby doesn't have a "this move is utter garbage" move. All have some degree of use. However, I do think his least useful (in my experiences) is side-B. It can potentially bust shields if timed just right in the air, and has amazing punishing utility if you get a shieldbreak, but I find myself rarely seeing a good time for this move. I'll admit, I once got a pretty gnarly punish on a Final Cutter landing with a fully charged hammer, but again, that isn't completely consistent. Dair can be pretty decent against recoveries like DK or Bowser if they start recovering from too far out (it's very good vs DK as he completely lacks vertical protection during his aerial up-b) and it does have uses for comboing out of an f-throw. as for best move... that's trickier. Kirby has a few really good moves. Down-tilt is a great poke, potential combo tool and kill confirm, and the fact that it low profiles Kirby and is quite spammable is very handy. F-tilt is just an all around solid tilt, f-air is a good combo and kill confirm tool, b-air, n-air and up air are all solid aerials in their own right, up tilt is also a good combo tool... it's hard to narrow down Kirby's best move since so many of them are just an all purpose good move.