Kirby MU Tier List v. 1.2

Andromedous

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I recently made this MU tier list through the Tier List Maker app and posted it to Twitter. With some help from SmashG0d and Poyo, I was able to refine it, so now I'm posting it here for discussion! I've been seeing these go around and I actually think they can be useful for us to discuss Kirby's worst Match Ups and how to work around them/what secondaries to cover his faults. Feel free to contribute any thoughts, I will be editing this tier list until we can get it as accurate as possible for discussion.

EDIT: v 1.3 now, made some adjustments. Metaknight is now -2, as is Luigi, from 0 and -1 respectively. ZSS moved to 0 from +1.
EDIT: v 1.3.1, Toon Link -1 from 0, Rosalina -2 from -1, Mewtwo 0 from -1, Marth/Lucina 0 from -1

 
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Andromedous

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Is the Sonic mu that bad for Kirby? Whaa─?
Yeah, it's hot garbage, seconded by Poyo. Kirby has absolutely no tools to either stop his approaches, his baits don't work because spindash, and kirby just gets combo'd too hard with no way to get out. :( it's Hot Garbage.
 

Shadow Keebey

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I'm surprised MK isn't -2 or -3. His signature combo is crazy deadly to us, is it not? Kirby has major trouble escaping from it.
 

elmike

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Fox main here who also likes to play kirby, and i dont think kirby has a +1 advantage over fox (i actually think the opposite). But in any case, 0 seems much more reasonable to me
 

Mazdamaxsti

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Fox main here who also likes to play kirby, and i dont think kirby has a +1 advantage over fox (i actually think the opposite). But in any case, 0 seems much more reasonable to me
Well considering on Larry's Fox MU chart today put Kirby winning the MU +1, that's good evidence.

ZSS is in no doubt even, I haven't seen a top Kirby call that MU more than even in months.

Luigi is -2, seconded still by most kirbies. Mike agreed, but even without that Luigi is still widely considered -2. Everything else is all opinion, really.
 

Andromedous

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I put a lot of characters into even due to my lack of MU knowledge so thanks for filling in the holes for me :) will definitely update this again when I get home. Totally agree with MK being +2, but kirby/fox is +1 at best, even at worst at equal levels of skill. ZSS is definitely even, that was a flub on my part.
 

Andromedous

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Also totally agree with Luigi, but I didn't know if that was just me or if that was universal. Will update later.
 

Andromedous

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What do you guys think about the Link/Tink matchup for kirby? Don't have enough MU experience to make a ranking.
 

Shadow Keebey

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I put a lot of characters into even due to my lack of MU knowledge so thanks for filling in the holes for me :) will definitely update this again when I get home. Totally agree with MK being +2, but kirby/fox is +1 at best, even at worst at equal levels of skill. ZSS is definitely even, that was a flub on my part.
MK -2 you mean. If only we had such a good matchup vs the swordspuff.
 

RetroKiirby

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I'd say on the Tink/Link MU, it is in Tink/Link's favor VERY slightly. Toon Link and Link can set up those insane projectile walls but Kirby can crouch right under. Of course, if Kirby DOES get hit, then Kirby will almost always get combed. Still, it's winnable.
 

Quarium

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I see :4fox: as 0

:4marth: as either 0 or -1 (Disjoints and range, a good and patient Marth is incredibly hard to approach as Kirby)

:4lucina: 0

:rosalina: is fine but maybe borderline -2


:4tlink: -1

Newest patches :4mewtwo: feels like a close 0 to me. but I'm fine with +1
 
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Andromedous

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I'll fix Marth/Lucina and Tink, definitely agree with Rosa, but I gotta disagree with Yoshi. On Twitter, Poyo and smashg0d both felt the matchup was more even than anything else, and I gotta agree. It's a matchup that requires a lot of patience for sure, but at completely equal levels of skill, a good Kirby and a good Yoshi can box very closely together. Solidly even imo at equal levels of skill
 

Andromedous

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LarryLurr and Xzax both put Kirby as "Slight Disadvantage" on their fox MU tier lists, so I'm not sure if Fox is +1 or 0? Seems like it could be even to me, but every fox player/main I've spoken to hate the MU which is why I put it at +1
 

SdN

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Xzax commented that he thinks it's even, he was just too lazy to edit it.

And I have to disagree that Kirby vs Diddy is even. Kirby has no way of safely approaching Diddy and he can just outcamp Kirby. Zinoto put Kirby as a +1 for Diddy, but personally I would say it's maybe even worse.

Also can someone explain to me why Pikachu wins +2? It didn't feel that bad whenever I play pikachu players but maybe they don't play the MU right.
 

elmike

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LarryLurr and Xzax both put Kirby as "Slight Disadvantage" on their fox MU tier lists, so I'm not sure if Fox is +1 or 0? Seems like it could be even to me, but every fox player/main I've spoken to hate the MU which is why I put it at +1
Can you provide the links to those lists?
 

Mazdamaxsti

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I agree with Diddy not being even. Many top kirbys have commented on the MU also, with mike saying its a -2 and smashg0d saying it could even be -3 (but -2 for now). I'd say pika and diddy should switch.
 
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Mazdamaxsti

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Also, Dr. Mario isn't +2, +1, and it might barely be even. I would say its even or -1. I doubt Kirby has 6 or more +2s, almost all of those +2s should be put in +1. Sheik should be -2 also (which is backed up by the fact that anti switches from mario to sheik to CP kirby). Olimar is also at best even, we def lose to greninja (-1 probs), megaman is def even or worse also.
 
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Quarium

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I'll fix Marth/Lucina and Tink, definitely agree with Rosa, but I gotta disagree with Yoshi. On Twitter, Poyo and smashg0d both felt the matchup was more even than anything else, and I gotta agree. It's a matchup that requires a lot of patience for sure, but at completely equal levels of skill, a good Kirby and a good Yoshi can box very closely together. Solidly even imo at equal levels of skill
I guess I have fought some more skilled than me Yoshi players then.
 
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Quarium

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Online yoshi is a pain, but offline its easier to fight him as kirby. I think all the top Kirby players agree the MU is pretty even.
You have a point, the more skillfull yoshi players I have been agaisnt have been online. So yeah you might be right, our only good yoshi player in my region also dropped him sometime ago so maybe I'm just sticking to the wrong references for knowledge.

My B, edited first post.
 
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C0rvus

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Not a Kirby player but I'm interested in how Ryu is even with Kirby? He has a better neutral, better disadvantaged state and much, much better advantaged state. He literally craps out damage and can kill you off of a non-committal tilt into srk at what? 60%? I just don't see Kirby being a threat to him.
 

EMPEROR Eevee

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Not a Kirby player but I'm interested in how Ryu is even with Kirby? He has a better neutral, better disadvantaged state and much, much better advantaged state. He literally craps out damage and can kill you off of a non-committal tilt into srk at what? 60%? I just don't see Kirby being a threat to him.
Just gonna copy and paste the discussion I had with my scene when I posted my Tier list in our state Smash 4 group.

" Ryu is actually one of a few MUs that I'm on the fence about. I think it's 5-5 but can see for why it is/can be in Ryu's favor(55-45 or 6-4). True Shoryu can kill early(w/Bad DI and Ryu Rage) and Ryu wins trades if Kirby doesn't space Up-tilts and B-Airs properly.

But, Kirby crouching over alot of his moves, his ability to gimp Ryu(especially if he needs to use Tatsu) and bully him at the ledge, and F-air/D-air can stop FADC aerial approaches assists Kirby in this MU. As long as Kirby plays safe and doesn't try to challenge everything, the MU could go either way. Orion Shy(DarkShad) what do you think?" ~ Eevee

" I think it's even. Kirbys crouch does invalidate a lot of our neutral tools but once we get the lead we really have no reason to approach. Kirby cant run up shield or grab if we dtilt in place and dash attack is mega unsafe." ~DarkShad

In a way, this MU is played out the same way the :4littlemac:and :4falcon:MUs are played. Whoever has the lead wins.
 

|RK|

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Hm. Am I the only one that thinks Marth/Ike should be -1 (not sure about Lucina)?
 

Dee-SmashinBoss

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Esam thinks that Pika vs Kirby is basically +1 in pika's favor, close to even.
I swear I thought Umeki(peach player) had Kirby at even, the GaW MU feels pretty much even, but -1 is .
 

Wintermelon43

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Why do people keep saying Pika is even for Kirby? Like I'm not understanding this at all
 

SdN

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Esam thinks that Pika vs Kirby is basically +1 in pika's favor, close to even.
I swear I thought Umeki(peach player) had Kirby at even, the GaW MU feels pretty much even, but -1 is .
Umeki has it as a +1 for Peach.
https://twitter.com/Umeki_Rainbow/status/707102784722575363

Why do people keep saying Pika is even for Kirby? Like I'm not understanding this at all
Pikachu has the better mobility, edgeguarding and maybe the better combo game, too. But Kirby probably wins in kill power as he doesn't have to land a smash but can just kill off a grab (very early with platforms).
On the ground, I would say, it's pretty much even as they have similar tools. Both have fast, safe D-Tilts, U-Tilts as combo starters and F-Tilts to get their opponents away from them.
In the air, it's hard to say, but I would say, Pikachu has the advantage there.
All in all, it's safe to say that Pikachu wins the match up, but I wouldn't call it a -2, so -1 is fitting in my opinion.
 

Altair357

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>Loses to Puff
>Marth/Lucina even
>Bayonetta even
>Beats DK/Bowser

Disgust
 

Mega-Spider

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As both a Mega Man and Kirby player, Mega Man is not an advantaged MU with Kirby. At least, it's an even MU, and at worst, Mega Man has it. Mega Man has a far better neutral than Kirby, can keep him out, and can edge guard Kirby pretty easily. While Kirby can do some good damage because of his F-Throw into D-Air set ups and Mega Man's fast falling speed and weight, the only way that it's going to be even is if Kirby inhales Metal Blade, which is a great approaching tool and can lead to more combo set ups.
 

superkirby555

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Umeki has it as a +1 for Peach.
https://twitter.com/Umeki_Rainbow/status/707102784722575363


Pikachu has the better mobility, edgeguarding and maybe the better combo game, too. But Kirby probably wins in kill power as he doesn't have to land a smash but can just kill off a grab (very early with platforms).
On the ground, I would say, it's pretty much even as they have similar tools. Both have fast, safe D-Tilts, U-Tilts as combo starters and F-Tilts to get their opponents away from them.
In the air, it's hard to say, but I would say, Pikachu has the advantage there.
All in all, it's safe to say that Pikachu wins the match up, but I wouldn't call it a -2, so -1 is fitting in my opinion.

Yeah also dair to d smash is 100% guaranteed on pika at all percents.
 

Shadow Keebey

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Hmmm... I anticipate some characters getting moved around. Sheik may or may not move, as may ZSS, I feel MK and Cloud could maybe be -1 since the patch, Bayo and Corrin are likely easier. Some matchups may be harder now, such as Charizard, but I'm just guessing these based on noted changes.
 

Djmarcus44

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I am not sure why you have Kirby as a +2 against Gunner. From my personal experience the matchup is even at worst for Gunner. This opinion is also shared by most Gunner players if not all Gunner players. Gunner is able to win the neutral pretty easily against Kirby by zoning him out with shorthop fair and mixing in other projectiles such as flame pillar and charge blast. In addition, Gunner can also kill Kirby pretty early with the follow ups in the Mii Gunner true combo and follow up thread along with decently fast killing options such as up tilt, dtilt, and dsmash. Gunner also has the tools to juggle Kirby since Gundashing gives Gunner great burst mobility and Gunner's charge blast is a good move for punishing Kirby for using down b as a landing mixup. Gunner's up tilt and up air outrange and beat out Kirby's other landing options. Furthermore, Gunner's flame pillar is great for stopping low recoveries by covering the ledge for at least 40 frames, and Gunner's fair and up air are good for punishing a high recovery since they have great range. While Kirby can combo Gunner pretty hard, it is not an easy task for Kirby to get in against Gunner. If you want the input of other Gunner players, you can post in the Mii Gunner matchup thread.
 

Mazdamaxsti

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I am not sure why you have Kirby as a +2 against Gunner. From my personal experience the matchup is even at worst for Gunner. This opinion is also shared by most Gunner players if not all Gunner players. Gunner is able to win the neutral pretty easily against Kirby by zoning him out with shorthop fair and mixing in other projectiles such as flame pillar and charge blast. In addition, Gunner can also kill Kirby pretty early with the follow ups in the Mii Gunner true combo and follow up thread along with decently fast killing options such as up tilt, dtilt, and dsmash. Gunner also has the tools to juggle Kirby since Gundashing gives Gunner great burst mobility and Gunner's charge blast is a good move for punishing Kirby for using down b as a landing mixup. Gunner's up tilt and up air outrange and beat out Kirby's other landing options. Furthermore, Gunner's flame pillar is great for stopping low recoveries by covering the ledge for at least 40 frames, and Gunner's fair and up air are good for punishing a high recovery since they have great range. While Kirby can combo Gunner pretty hard, it is not an easy task for Kirby to get in against Gunner. If you want the input of other Gunner players, you can post in the Mii Gunner matchup thread.
We never use stone as a landing mixup tho, being able to zone us is dandy and all and I agree it's not +2, but Kirby doesn't lose. +1/0 imo.
 
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