Kirby Falco Matchup

[ColZDude]

I was wondering if anyone had sure fire edgegaurd techniques vs falco? Like gimps etc.

Ive been trying stuff with aerial sideb and running attack off the edge to interrupt his up b, but i havent seen like a sure fire gimp like those marth has.

also i havent seen a post on this (havent looked hard enough) but in this matchup, with lasers, you can up throw and fire a laser while coming down and land a laser reset. The follow up could be another throw or my personal favorite, sweet spot hammer.

I know about obvious stuff like double lasers and stuff already though (=

 

[bubbaking]

Well, Kirby's not Marth, so don't expect any Marth-level edgeguarding from him. If you want to edgeguard Falco, your best bets are probably bair, dtilt, dsmash, and sometimes dair. Don't forget that you can chase your opponent offstage to make sure they die. Kirby's boss like that.

I've never tried that laser reset stuff. It sounds pretty cool but I highly doubt that it could actually hit-confirm into a sweetspotted hammer, not at %'s where it would matter anyway. Maybe it could be a mix-up at low-mid %'s...

 

[Gold Dart]

If your expecting falco to illusion back on to the stage utilt works well.

 

[bubbaking]

I feel dtilt/dsmash cover more options, though. Bair and dair too.....

 

[Gold Dart]

dtilt is a very good option, but dsmash is too lagy if it misses. bair from ledge is also a good choice.

EDIT:I personally don't use dsmash, but like bubbaking said it's not a bad choice.

 

[Pimpfish]

yeah just bair. its kirbys best move imo.

 

[bubbaking]

I've seen some gimps out deep with soft nair. It works 'cause Fox can't try to DI it high to recover and it's really the only thing Kirby can do, other than fair, if he's stuck in the air already facing forwards (and he can't afford to DJ turnaround). But yeah, bair is probably Kirb's best move.

 

[Gold Dart]

If falco doesn't sweet spot the ledge, isn't it possible to edge guard him with swallow?

 

[bubbaking]

That won't edgeguard him. That will just save him.

 

[Gold Dart]

haha well I never said it was a good option. if falco doesn't mash out of swallow its a free kirbycide though,right?

 

[bubbaking]

No competent player will ever let you walk offstage with him in your mouth. It's incredibly easy to mash out of Kirby's Inhale. The only way you'd be able to pull this off is if you jumped offstage and inhaled Falco straight out of the air.

 

[Gold Dart]

**** edge guarding just upthrow rest him

 

[Bing]

Just use almost any tilt on the illusion, if they go to sweetspot with the Firebird, dair them and eventually bair. Kirby doesn't have very many options, so theres not a ton you can do.

 

[bubbaking]

Apparently, dair's not that good of an option, according to Pink Reaper, 3R, and.....someone else I can't remember. I use it too, though. It 'combos' into itself, so why not? It's usually the only thing I have time to do when the spacees Firebird/fox at a really wierd angle right below the ledge.

 

[Bing]

Well I wasn't refering to comboing. You can dip just below the stage line with Dair to "prevent" the sweetspot.

 

[bubbaking]

No, that's what I was talking about. I was simply referring to how dair can lead into itself if they meteor cancel it to ensure the kill, which is why I put the term "combo" in single quotation marks. I dair below the stage line to prevent the sweetspot and then I DJ dair again to retaliate against the meteor cancel. Rinse and repeat as necessary; then recover.

 

[Bing]

ahh okay yeah.

 

[Triple R]

You should just be dtilting Falco's when they try to sweetspot. When it hits it should be a free edgehog for the kill.

 

[bubbaking]

But the problem I have is that dtilt doesn't always hit them, especially when they actually nail the sweetspot, which a lot of the high-level spacees that I face do. Dair is guaranteed to hit them. Idk, I just like it, but I'm not going to suggest it for anyone else.

 

[Triple R]

If you're missing sweetspots with dtilt, it's the user error and not the move. The move itself hits below the stage much like Marth's dtilt. I personally think Kirby's dtilt is better than Marth's for catching sweetspots.

Dair can work, but it's a risky option. You risk trading with an up B eventually. Once you trade and they meteor cancel, they can recover. Then when they do, you're still in a bad position from where the up B sent you. Then they proceed to punish you for being in the air.

At least with dtilt if you do happen to trade with something, you'll be stuck to the ground since you should be crouch cancelling while doing the dtilt.

The safer option is to always stay on stage and pepper their recoveries with hits until you can edgehog. Going out with a dair gives them a chase to zip by you with side b or angle around you with up b.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Triple R, you're too good at this game. Are you going to EVO?

 

[Triple R]

Triple R, you're too good at this game. Are you going to EVO?

Probably not. Money's way to tight for me right now. With my current job I don't get paid time off. If I did, I could maybe work it out. But I'd probably have to take a couple days off of work. The way it currently is I don't really wanna press finances more than I have to by missing a couple days of work.

 

[TemPesT-]

RRR beat kels falco, what have any of you other kirbys done?

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

Kirby vs spacies is definitely in kirbys favor -> tech chase, lazer cancel (u can go off the edge and cancel firebird/fox until he is out of range of ledge, dont forget BAIR! best approach for kirby, I think kirby has the potential to be viable. U can edgeguard very well especially **** recoveries and up-b's tht hav no priority like falcon. B4 I SAW COMPETITIVE MELEE, I LEGITIMITELY THOUGHT RED KIRBY WAS THE BEST CHAR, but that was wen the only thing i cud do was roll, now i main falco and doc, but i want some kirby inspiration <3 ADVANCE THE KIRBY METAGAME, KIRBY CUD BE BROKE FOR ALL WE KNOW

 

[No U]

Has anybody else actually practiced the crouch perfect shield technique in this matchup? The one where you rise out of crouch as a laser is above you and input shield right before your standing animation so you always perfect shield lasers? I've messed around with it a little bit and it can mess some falcos up. I actually like the Kirby vs Falco matchup more than any of his other top/high tier matchups. Kirby can reasonably avoid Falco's approach game and pull off some reasonable gimps and combos against him.

 

[bubbaking]

RRR beat kels falco, what have any of you other kirbys done?

I actually won money with Kirby.

Edit: It was a $20 MM.

 

[Massive]

KIRBY CUD BE BROKE FOR ALL WE KNOW

I can guarantee you that he is not. Kirby is too light, has too few punishes, and very low KO potential. The only really broke thing he has is dtilt (and maybe swallow), and it's not remotely as broken as what most other characters have.

RRR beat kels falco, what have any of you other kirbys done?

I've beat Darkrain and AustinRC with Kirby before. You can usually take people by surprise and get a few matches, but once they figure out kirby's very limited attack options it becomes very difficult to win.

Has anybody else actually practiced the crouch perfect shield technique in this matchup? The one where you rise out of crouch as a laser is above you and input shield right before your standing animation so you always perfect shield lasers? I've messed around with it a little bit and it can mess some falcos up. I actually like the Kirby vs Falco matchup more than any of his other top/high tier matchups. Kirby can reasonably avoid Falco's approach game and pull off some reasonable gimps and combos against him.

It's probably the best way to powershield since you will still duck the laser if they do it too late. Really just duck > wavedash is easier/safer and leaves you with more options on approach.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

kirby can be a teams specialist and play the opposite of jiggulypuff
hold stocks and stuff
too bad noone will take them seriously

 

[Massive]

Teams of 2 floaties have trouble with hybrid and fast teams.

Both kirby and jiggs are too slow to combo off each other easily and are susceptible to being separated by distance while one gets double teamed, mired in their own floaty-ness. This is why you see people pair a fast character with a slower one (usually a fast character with jiggs). The only reason jiggs is preferred over any other stock-tank is because of grab > rest.

Lets look at this logically: If Kirby/Jiggs was a good team, Jiggs/Jiggs would be categorically better, but most people would gladly agree that double Jiggs is seriously lacking in itself (less than stellar ground game for grabs/separation punish), so Kirby/Jiggs can't be awesome.

Kirby+Spacies/Falcon/Shiek is a pretty good team. Kirby/Jiggs will be midtier at best.

 

[shuall]

Teams of 2 floaties have trouble with hybrid and fast teams.

Both kirby and jiggs are too slow to combo off each other easily and are susceptible to being separated by distance while one gets double teamed, mired in their own floaty-ness. This is why you see people pair a fast character with a slower one (usually a fast character with jiggs). The only reason jiggs is preferred over any other stock-tank is because of grab > rest.

Lets look at this logically: If Kirby/Jiggs was a good team, Jiggs/Jiggs would be categorically better, but most people would gladly agree that double Jiggs is seriously lacking in itself (less than stellar ground game for grabs/separation punish), so Kirby/Jiggs can't be awesome.

Kirby+Spacies/Falcon/Shiek is a pretty good team. Kirby/Jiggs will be midtier at best.

Though t1mmy and t0mmy's team matches (kirby/jiggs) are awesome to watch, they seem pretty old. Also, t0mmy switched to pichu later on, I guess for that reason: to have a faster character to match with t1mmy's kirby (that and I guess jiggs was just too high-tier).
I admire the jiggs roll/pichu side-b into kirby's mouth, then getting spit back at opponents. No one expects it.

 

[t!MmY]

Yeah, any of my Melee vids up right now are old, but they're still awesome because Kirby and Jiggly actually do have some cool team synergy. Some people might think otherwise.

t0mmy's always played Pichu & Jigglypuff. He didn't "switch to" either of them, though he's fully aware that Jigglypuff works way better in teams. Kirby & Pichu are as bottom tier in Doubles together as they are in Singles apart.

Both kirby and jiggs are too slow to combo off each other easily and are susceptible to being separated by distance while one gets double teamed, mired in their own floaty-ness

....most people would gladly agree that double Jiggs is seriously lacking in itself (less than stellar ground game for grabs/separation punish), so Kirby/Jiggs can't be awesome

...Kirby/Jiggs will be midtier at best.

Jiggly if fast in the air, so she can usually stay within range of Kirby and help out when needed. Kirby is slow in general, but he's not too slow while grounded to stay close to Jiggs most of the time - if she needs help off-stage, it's probably out of the question though.

Double Jiggly might indeed lack a strong ground-game, but that's actually where a Jiggly + Kirby team synchs up well. Jiggly moves about freely taking mostly an aerial approach and Kirby stays mostly on the ground (using Crouch and Wave Dash).

In regards to the final quote: Yeah, a Kirby & Jigglypuff seems mid-tier at best. It's mostly due to the fact that Kirby's weaknesses in Singles aren't as condemning as in Doubles - if he was a better character in general the team would be pretty sweet.

I should probably put some new videos up. :\

 

[bubbaking]

Omega bump.

Teams of 2 floaties have trouble with hybrid and fast teams.

Plup + Hbox. That is all.

 

[FrenkM0J0]

Omega bump.


Plup + Hbox. That is all.

'Nuff said

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

Extremely impractical: If Falco lasers while edgeguarding, time up-b so you're hit before Kirby jumps up to conserve jumps. If you're hit after Kirby jumps up, you lose all your jumps, if you miss the laser, you're obviously stuck in final cutter. Grab the bird, eat the bird, be the bird!