Kirby-Bayonetta Matchup

NotMegaMan

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Anyone else having problems with Bayonetta vs Kirby? i cant seem to beat her with Kirby, shes got the best recovery beside villager, so you cant push her off the edge and guard the ledge, and on stage all of her attacks are so fast combined with range to the point were you cant get close to her. Am i the only one with this problem? is it only with Kirby? Mega Man, my secondary, does fair vs her.
 

KirbyFan20

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This matchup is actually fairly easy for me as Kirby. The only think I really have trouble with is her combos.
 

God Robert's Cousin

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The biggest thing is getting her copy ability. Neutral Special can get a lot of chip damage on Bayonetta for her large size, and it works as a good punishing tool if you charge a shot from a distance while she's undergoing any particular end-lag. In fact, you can walk under most of her Neutral Special's range. Two-thirds of its total distance before it finally hits, I believe, so it's not like she can use it in return. Just be aware of her ability to duck and shoot as well, however.
 

Asdioh

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This matchup is actually fairly easy for me as Kirby. The only think I really have trouble with is her combos.
It depends on who you're playing though. She's one of the most complicated characters in the game, and has only been out for a few days. Your random Bayonetta, especially on For Glory, is most likely extremely awful at playing her.

It's going to take a while to really learn the matchup, for both sides. How much damage do her combos do? How likely is she to get death combos on you? How effective is DI/SDI at escaping her combos? What are her most threatening options in neutral? How do we avoid those options? How do we pressure her in neutral? How many of our combos don't work because of her airdodge (Bat Within) escaping them? How realistic is it to edgeguard her? Which of our attacks beat/trade with her attacks? There are a ton of questions to answer for this matchup.

I haven't spent much time labbing this matchup, but it looks like she's shaping up to be a very strong character, so it'll be important to learn the ins and outs. I can say that one of her most annoying tools is the "bullet arts," because she can force approaches with it. It's easy enough for us to avoid the bullets from her neutral B, because we're so short, but she can shoot at us from halfway across the stage with moves like her Dtilt, so we have to find a way around it, to avoid taking damage for free.
 

|RK|

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She's not super great against shield, but she has very potent edgeguarding skills. Really, you want to stay on stage more than anything. The other thing is that juggling her is worse than any other counter-based char. You try to extend advantage and you could very well end up KOd.

She's light, though, so that's great. Also, being short means Bullet Arts are more effective at range for us than her. Still not certain about the matchup, though.
 

Quarium

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Bullet Arts are more effective at range for us than her. Still not certain about the matchup, though.
I think you meant neutral B, wich is called "Bullet Climax".

Bullet Arts are holding the A/B button to shoot extra bullets out of her attacks, wich we don't have access to.
 
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|RK|

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I think you meant neutral B, wich is called "Bullet Climax".

Bullet Arts are holding the A/B button to shoot extra bullets out of her attacks, wich we don't have access to.
Ah, you're right!
 

Crystaljiggs

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I dont think the match up is as bad as you think cause doesn't alot of her moves have lots of starting frames and should be easy to block
 

Smashkid13

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Anyone else having problems with Bayonetta vs Kirby? i cant seem to beat her with Kirby, shes got the best recovery beside villager, so you cant push her off the edge and guard the ledge, and on stage all of her attacks are so fast combined with range to the point were you cant get close to her. Am i the only one with this problem? is it only with Kirby? Mega Man, my secondary, does fair vs her.
Make sure you don't recover high because once you up b and you're above ledge you're gonna eat a :4bayonetta2:down smash. Use your floatyness to try to escape :4bayonetta:combos.
 
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Mega-Spider

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NotMegaMan NotMegaMan You main Megs and Kirbs too? You. Are. AWESOME!!! :D
Anyway, I fought a few Bayonettas as Kirby, and this is a VERY difficult match up for the poor guy. He's prone to getting Witch Timed, and since Bae's fast, he has a hard time getting away from her. However, Kirby does have some good KO moves to help against the match up, and (at least from my experience) Bayonetta's smash attacks don't connect all the time. Still, I recommend having a secondary for Kirby in this match up. From my experience, Mega Man does alright against Bayonetta, but he needs to dominate neutral (which Megs is great at) and needs to be careful, as one mistake can lead to a Witch Time stock.
 

|RK|

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NotMegaMan NotMegaMan You main Megs and Kirbs too? You. Are. AWESOME!!! :D
Anyway, I fought a few Bayonettas as Kirby, and this is a VERY difficult match up for the poor guy. He's prone to getting Witch Timed, and since Bae's fast, he has a hard time getting away from her. However, Kirby does have some good KO moves to help against the match up, and (at least from my experience) Bayonetta's smash attacks don't connect all the time. Still, I recommend having a secondary for Kirby in this match up. From my experience, Mega Man does alright against Bayonetta, but he needs to dominate neutral (which Megs is great at) and needs to be careful, as one mistake can lead to a Witch Time stock.
Almost everyone is prone to getting Witch Timed. And Bayo really isn't fast. She has good burst movement, but that's about it as far as that's concerned.

I personally don't think it's a "secondary-required" match up, but I haven't faced a great Bayo yet.
 

TimG57867

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Haven't faced any Bayonetta's because I'm in college and 3DS For Glory is unusable here but my brother is one of top ranked Bayonetta's on Anther's Ladder right now and I'll be going home for spring break so maybe I'll have some good feedback by then.
 

Simperheve

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I've been finding the Bayonetta Matchup somewhat difficult. It seems it doesn't take very long for Bayonetta to put Kirby into KO percents, and given the size, power and speed of her Smash Attacks it can be quite tough to close the gap without eating one giant demon limb or another. Also a lot of helpful combos can be turned against you by Witch Time. I think the key to doing well in this matchup is to punish Bayonetta's approach using pummels, throws and short combos to prevent giving away a free Witch Time.
 

TimG57867

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Alright, I now think I am in good position to give some matchup knowledge on :4bayonetta:.

Now in my eyes, when it comes to fighting Bayonetta, you pretty much need to approach her similar to :4zss: except even MORE carefully. Like ZSS, she's a fast faller so Kirby can do some nice low percent combos on her. However, you need to be VERY cautious about do strings on her as an overextension can result in getting Witch Time's and eating a nice hard smash of her choosing. And if you are around 60-80% you'll pretty much die to any Smash of her choosing. (Fortunately there seems to be a blind spot in the F-Smash that Kirby is just small enough to squeeze in if he's close enough). Now the way I see it, the most dangerous move in her arsenal is the Afterburner Kick. It's stupidly safe on shield and any attempt to punish is almost bound to end in getting up kicked or beaned by an aerial Afterburner or aerial. If you want to punish this move, you'll have to either dodge it or shield and retreat and wait for her next move and try to punish that. I am serious. It has like ZERO cooldown. It's like :4cloud2:'s limit attacks. You just can't punish it safely. Speaking of no lag, as far as I can tell, all but her Down Air have almost no cooldown so just like ZSS, do not try to contest her air game head. Most characters can't Kirby is definitely not an exception.

Now other things to watch out for:

  • If the aerial After Burner kick hits your shield, she can immediately do another so resist the temptation to drop shield and try and get an immediate punish.
  • As many of you know, Bayonetta's prime option for killing appears to using After Burner and Witch Twist in combination to take you up to heaven. When this is happening, the best means of escaping is DI'ing out and mashing Air Dodge. Fortunately since, Kirby is small and floaty, it's relatively easy for to escape the early death strings this way although you're bound to eat some percent in the process. When it comes to Kirby, they'll often want to get an Up Air out near the ceiling.
  • At kill percent, (80-100% I think for Kirby) she can D-Tilt into an Up Air to kill Kirby. Be wary of this when approaching.
  • Keep an eye out for her jab. It's probably the best multi-hit jab in the game as if it touches you there's practically zero chance of getting out of it.
  • When recovering, she'll often charge her Bullet Climax (neutral B) on the ledge. But more often than not this is a fake out as it can be canceled as she pleases. To edge guard, they'll often do a Down Air as you're floating on in. DO NOT get hit by this. For some reason, her Down Air is stupid powerful and getting hit off stage at anything about 70% and above means almost certain doom. She can also Down Smash to dunk us on the ledge so watch that Final Cutter spacing.
  • If she holds out her inputs, extra shots will come will come out that work like Fox lasers. Thus, don't even bother crouching from a distance as she'll just hold D-Tilt and get free percent.
  • When it comes to edge guarding her, I personally wouldn't recommend it. She appears to have a "triple jump" glitch which allows her to jump twice in the air. This combined with all the After Burner and Witch Time's makes gimping her with aerials a big gamble. Heck, if they might even try to revenge gimp you with a D-Air and depending on where and when they do it, it may be risk free for them as unlike most characters with crashing D-Airs they can actually recovery safely after do there's off stage.
  • Forward Throw near the ledge can kill at about 100% or so try not to shield to close to the ledge at death percent.
Now here are the things I've found success with:

  • When it comes to Inhale, GO FOR IT. Bullet Climax in this matchup is better in Kirby's hands than Bayonetta because her taller frame means her shots will often go over us at mid range and further without even needing to duck and on the flipside, out bullets can even hit her at a distance if she doesn't crouch. This makes it very effective a racking up percent from a safe distance, messing with her recovery, and disuading her from spamming aerials in our face. And since she's a fast faller, you can Up Tilt juggle her and easily land it Inhale. I suggest you do this instead of extending a string that might get Witch Time'd.
  • If a Bayonetta is getting aerial happy, Final Cutter can be nice anti-air. And in general, it's not super risky to throw out as Bayonetta due to her average speed if properly spaced and timed. It can make for a nice mixup.
  • Grab is your best friend. You can get some nice early and mid percent combos with aerials and Final Cutter respectively and our Up Throw will kill her at about 143% without rage on FD. There you should not feel force to overcommit with a killing B-Air or Smash and risk getting Witch Time'd though since she's as heavy as Sheik (84) she'll die early to them if they do connect.
  • While her smashes are powerful, their hitboxes will be removed if they clank with anything so if you're hesitant about going in, N-Air and its many hitboxes can keep her from getting a free smash if you get caught in Witch Time.
  • While crouch camping isn't that effective because of After Burner and D-Tilt, crouching as you approach can be effective as it goes under F-Smash, jab, and grab.
For stages, I think we should avoid Smashville and Town & City. The latter amplifies her already broken recovery and gives us no space to avoid her After Burners while the latter will probably lead to stupid early deaths off the top. Final Destination and Duck Hunt are probably the best stages as they give space to run away, make her aerial game less scary with the lack of platforms, and have low enough ceilings so that Up Throw isn't hindered with the Tree being able to enhance it on Duck Hunt. Battlefield and Dreamland could also work though I fear the platforms could help gets nasty cheezes although Battlefield has good survival blast zones and Dreamland works great with the Up Throw and the bottom can pineapple her recovery if she's careless. Got to them if FD or Duck Hunt are banned. Not sure how Lylat would work.

As for as the competively level, @MikeKirby actually played against Aerolink at a Shockwave during a stay at Texas. He lost game one on Final Destination (although I could tell he was still getting a feel for the matchup), won game 2 on Duck Hunt, and lost game 3 on Dreamland. Although the last game was very close and I think he would have done better had he went for the Up Throw at 9:38 as Whispy was blowing him towards the platform and even without it I think with the rage it would have killed anyway and he wouldn't have lost his stock first.


And as a bonus, falln, a well known :rosalina:main, surprisingly whipped out Kirby, his apparent Brawl main, against aphro who's also an accomplished Rosalina and coincidentally the number one Bayonetta (and player) on the Smash Ladder at the time of writing. He went Kirby game one on Town and City. After first he let himself get cheezed. But then he took the power and began going for grab combos and Down throws and was able to win it with an Up Throw. He then switched to Rosalina after that and lost a game and won the next.


In my opinion, I think this matchup will feel hard at first due to needing to adjust to Bayonetta's kit and powerful options. But I think the long run the matchup will be pretty close. That's just me though.
 

EMPEROR Eevee

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People in my State((Ohio) keep telling me that this MU is heavily in Kirby's favor. I'll be sure to post videos of me playing against the Bayo's of my state for information for you guys.
 

breadstick24

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I put it in Kirby's favor because D-air N-air and F-air are all multihit and "safer" against WT. Kirby can SDI out of Bayonetta's standard kill combo's. Kirby armed with bullet climax is great (if only witch time were her neutral B, imagine.). And ducking, Kirby can duck under almost everything. Afterburner being the great equalizer but thanks to 1.1.5 it's now much easier to punish out of shield with B-Air.
 
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