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im interested in the 5 frames faster to something unknown !Kirby Ice Breath has the hitboxes moved forward slightly. The 6% hitbox angle was changed 40 -> 30, bkb 50 -> 40, size 7 -> 7.5.
Kirby aerial side-b 2 wkb 20 -> 50, 2nd hit hitboxes changed in priority to make the 17% hitbox a targeted sweetspot (similar to the previous sheik fair change)
Ditto on the grounded version of Kirby side-b 2. (sweespot)
Kirby had some frame speed multiplier added to make somethign unknown 5 frames faster. No clue.
Yep. Espicially with fast fall since then DI won't always make it miss too since then you can walk up and hit them. .Could neutral air always combo into up tilt and down tilt at low percentages?
It's the same. Everything is likely the same.His Nair seems faster to me, but since I don't have a 1.1.0 to test on, assume it's placebo. Otherwise I've got nothing.
One person also mentioned that this also functions as a nerf for Sheik, considering she (along with everyone else) cannot punish as easily as she could, which was one of the many things that made her so ridiculous. Sheik is a character who thrives on the game's mechanics, so she got a buff and a nerf at the same time (might be more of a buff since she has more incentive to camp with Needles and F-Air, ). Sheik v. Kirby has always been a weird match-up for the two, so at the moment I don't see a lot changing, personally. That, or I'm just too lax to care about Sheiks being everywhere and me maining Kirby.It's the same. Everything is likely the same.
BUT, shieldstun ~apparently~ got increased, so all moves in the game might be safer upon hitting a shield (not a perfect shield though)
This might make Kirby's aerials safer on shield? Especially Dair :D? But ... everyone else is safer on shield too. I never wanted this change tbh. Just look at Sheik's F-air to see how dumb things can get when they're safe.
what? link?It's the same. Everything is likely the same.
BUT, shieldstun ~apparently~ got increased, so all moves in the game might be safer upon hitting a shield (not a perfect shield though)
This might make Kirby's aerials safer on shield? Especially Dair :D? But ... everyone else is safer on shield too. I never wanted this change tbh. Just look at Sheik's F-air to see how dumb things can get when they're safe.
Really now? Well good thing I got Ice Breath now. Time to find true combos with Inhale!what? link?
also...
along with Thinkaman's data, HBJ + Upper Cutter goes higher than Balloon Trip
HB has startup decreased, potentially endlag. F-Throw > HB is a true combo
Ice Breath now has buffed Inhale frame data, you can use this to find out when Inhale true combos.
Indeed, with these new things added to the mix, it would force Kirby to not dash-and-shield, lest his shield eventually runs dry, and play offensive or a dodgy, mobile defense where he unfortunately cannot due thanks to his awful mobility and his lack of innate projectiles.As a result of the shieldstun change, wouldn't this make Dash -> Shield unsafe? It was a decent approach option for Kirby but it's a lot riskier now.
For a character that lacks range and approach options, this change appears more negative than positive to me (at least for Kirby). Seems like Kirby would struggle even more against characters with good range and disjoints.
I'm sorry, but what is HBJ and HB?what? link?
also...
along with Thinkaman's data, HBJ + Upper Cutter goes higher than Balloon Trip
HB has startup decreased, potentially endlag. F-Throw > HB is a true combo
Ice Breath now has buffed Inhale frame data, you can use this to find out when Inhale true combos.
What are you talking about? Kirby was buffed in this patch.Hammer Bash and Hammer Bash Jump. Hammer Bash boosts Kirby's upwards momentum for whatever reason, and was buffed further in this patch.
Also, while it's a bit early, from what we know, Kirby's going to suck in this patch. Contemplating dropping him because right now he's probably worse than release Kirby.
The shield stun changes are terrible for Kirby. None of his moves seem to benefit much from it compared to other characters. Dair is slightly safer but it doesn't seem to get the same benefit from this change as Yoshi's did.What are you talking about? Kirby was buffed in this patch.
It is heartbreaking...all that work and study and research on Kirby, down the drain. Like it really is making me consider dropping Smash 4 for good.This is a terrible day for us Kirby mains...
Far from it, his disadvantages increased substantially to where Kirby virtually has no niche. Heavy-hitting characters have more shieldstun to lead on, rewarding them for offense. Characters with range got safer and quick characters get to weave in-and-out more. Kirby cannot get hit heavy-hitters unless he gets KOed. Kirby cannot approach at all if any of the three are present, which is ALL of the cast. He is one of the worst characters in the game, easily.Wait, wasn't he buffed with the shield stun? Didn't he do bad with being unsafe on shield? So the disadvantages counter the advantages and he's the same in viability?
Yeah, that's the icing on the cake there. At least Jigglypuff can weave in-and-out, but this...this pretty much makes it clear that Kirby is arguably the worst character in the game.For whatever reason it didn't make him better; now he can't use RAR up air to approach anymore and is lacking even more approaches including his shield since nearly everyone is way safer on shield
You can still be badly punished. The projectile is small and the endlag is atrocious.On a more optimistic note, how's Final Cutter? With the greater shield stun, a well placed Final Cutter could be far less punishable now, even for speedy characters. I need to test this
Hmm. Thought so. But I bet it's definitely not AS easy to punish now if they shield anyway.Where's all this coming from? It's not like Kirby had any approaches to begin with and dash into shield will only get you so far anyway. On the other hand, this makes Kirby even stronger up close since we can poke and convert really well. I've been trying out well-spaced F-airs on shield, that seems to be doing okay (though I can't really compare it to 1.1.0).
You can still be badly punished. The projectile is small and the endlag is atrocious.
I'll probably check that in a day or two. My head hurts, what with all these changes going around. At least it gives me something to hope for in Kirby.No need to dwell on the negative. I think its more important to ask: Is there ANYTHING we can do on shield now that's safe, that wasn't safe before?
Technically speaking, I guess you're right, but it still is incredibly punishable even with the new frame advantage (which speaks volumes about how it was before). Not that it doesn't have its uses of course.Hmm. Thought so. But I bet it's definitely not AS easy to punish now if they shield anyway.
Basically with universal shield stun, you can't act out of shield as quickly. This makes more moves unpunishable / creates more opportunities for the attacker. Essentially playing defensively got nerfed and people think this will encourage offense (easy to see why). But Kirby "supposedly" can't take advantage of this since he has neither speed nor range. That leaves playing defensively, which just got nerfed, so Kirby ends up being "worse overall."I... don't really understand what the patch changed. More shieldstun? But like, what are some practical examples of that affecting the outcome of a match? I only know that multihits can lock you in shield now? Pls explain.