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Kirby 1.11 Patch Changelog Thread

NeoRed

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Any buffs? Any nerfs? Help the community by pointing any if you notice them!
 

Chewie

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Kirby Ice Breath has the hitboxes moved forward slightly. The 6% hitbox angle was changed 40 -> 30, bkb 50 -> 40, size 7 -> 7.5.
Kirby aerial side-b 2 wkb 20 -> 50, 2nd hit hitboxes changed in priority to make the 17% hitbox a targeted sweetspot (similar to the previous sheik fair change)
Ditto on the grounded version of Kirby side-b 2. (sweespot)
Kirby had some frame speed multiplier added to make somethign unknown 5 frames faster. No clue.
im interested in the 5 frames faster to something unknown !
 

OctoWich

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Could neutral air always combo into up tilt and down tilt at low percentages?
 

Bribery

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Darn, still no Up Throw buff :(

Though Luigi getting nerfed is a huge indirect buff to Kirby :p
 
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kirbyfan66

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His Nair seems faster to me, but since I don't have a 1.1.0 to test on, assume it's placebo. Otherwise I've got nothing.
 

Asdioh

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His Nair seems faster to me, but since I don't have a 1.1.0 to test on, assume it's placebo. Otherwise I've got nothing.
It's the same. Everything is likely the same.

BUT, shieldstun ~apparently~ got increased, so all moves in the game might be safer upon hitting a shield (not a perfect shield though)
This might make Kirby's aerials safer on shield? Especially Dair :D? But ... everyone else is safer on shield too. I never wanted this change tbh. Just look at Sheik's F-air to see how dumb things can get when they're safe.
 

SapphSabre777

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It's the same. Everything is likely the same.

BUT, shieldstun ~apparently~ got increased, so all moves in the game might be safer upon hitting a shield (not a perfect shield though)
This might make Kirby's aerials safer on shield? Especially Dair :D? But ... everyone else is safer on shield too. I never wanted this change tbh. Just look at Sheik's F-air to see how dumb things can get when they're safe.
One person also mentioned that this also functions as a nerf for Sheik, considering she (along with everyone else) cannot punish as easily as she could, which was one of the many things that made her so ridiculous. Sheik is a character who thrives on the game's mechanics, so she got a buff and a nerf at the same time (might be more of a buff since she has more incentive to camp with Needles and F-Air, ). Sheik v. Kirby has always been a weird match-up for the two, so at the moment I don't see a lot changing, personally. That, or I'm just too lax to care about Sheiks being everywhere and me maining Kirby.

I can definitely see this as a buff for Kirby this patch. Luigi may still have his ability to combo with D-Throw at lower %s, but his ability to KO us off of a grab on the level of pre-patch is virtually gone (the Tornado Warning has finally passed!), which was the one big thing that we hated about Luigi in that MU. Unfortunately we will have to re-analyze the match-up again because of this, much to the chagrin of the past experiences.

Assuming the shieldstun is true, then there is a possibility that we have a very damaging shield combo. If there is enough shieldstun between the landing D-Air hitbox, then it could connect itself into jab, punishing shields. This is hypothetical, and someone will need to test it, but if that is case, then D-Air became all that much more abusable to use: shield and your shield gets shredded quite a bit; get hit, and you get sent to Combo City or KOed. Oh, and we can abuse Aura Sphere just like Lucario can, so another buff inadvertently for us.

Heck, since a lot of Kirby's aerials auto-cancel and Kirby has really good ground frame data (to the point of harassing people constantly), it gives Kirby more options, mix-up potential, safety and frame traps now than ever, so I think the best way for us to start off this new patch is to find ways to abuse the increased shieldstun.

That's all I have on my head, can't wait to contribute to findings when I'm done with my GUI project and my online assignments. Viva Fall Break!
 
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Aunt Jemima

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It's the same. Everything is likely the same.

BUT, shieldstun ~apparently~ got increased, so all moves in the game might be safer upon hitting a shield (not a perfect shield though)
This might make Kirby's aerials safer on shield? Especially Dair :D? But ... everyone else is safer on shield too. I never wanted this change tbh. Just look at Sheik's F-air to see how dumb things can get when they're safe.
what? link?

also...

along with Thinkaman's data, HBJ + Upper Cutter goes higher than Balloon Trip

HB has startup decreased, potentially endlag. F-Throw > HB is a true combo

Ice Breath now has buffed Inhale frame data, you can use this to find out when Inhale true combos.
 

SapphSabre777

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what? link?

also...

along with Thinkaman's data, HBJ + Upper Cutter goes higher than Balloon Trip

HB has startup decreased, potentially endlag. F-Throw > HB is a true combo

Ice Breath now has buffed Inhale frame data, you can use this to find out when Inhale true combos.
Really now? Well good thing I got Ice Breath now. Time to find true combos with Inhale!

EDIT: AFTER class. :(
 
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Bribery

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As a result of the shieldstun change, wouldn't this make Dash -> Shield unsafe? It was a decent approach option for Kirby but it's a lot riskier now.

For a character that lacks range and approach options, this change appears more negative than positive to me (at least for Kirby). Seems like Kirby would struggle even more against characters with good range and disjoints.
 

SapphSabre777

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As a result of the shieldstun change, wouldn't this make Dash -> Shield unsafe? It was a decent approach option for Kirby but it's a lot riskier now.

For a character that lacks range and approach options, this change appears more negative than positive to me (at least for Kirby). Seems like Kirby would struggle even more against characters with good range and disjoints.
Indeed, with these new things added to the mix, it would force Kirby to not dash-and-shield, lest his shield eventually runs dry, and play offensive or a dodgy, mobile defense where he unfortunately cannot due thanks to his awful mobility and his lack of innate projectiles.

However, if you consider that, if as many are saying, more characters will attack more and shield less, then it means that a re-write on how to play Kirby may be in order, though it is a bit early right now to fully judge the impact, and we certainly don't have complete knowledge on what has changed. Once those things become clear, then people will likely start to branch out and think of ways to use Kirby in this advantageous way.

Ultimately, though, any character that outranges OR outspeeds Kirby already could be considered better off if the meta is based upon the above criteria...and that's almost, if not all, the entirety of the cast. But it is still early, so let's see what happens.
 
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Jinjo64

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what? link?

also...

along with Thinkaman's data, HBJ + Upper Cutter goes higher than Balloon Trip

HB has startup decreased, potentially endlag. F-Throw > HB is a true combo

Ice Breath now has buffed Inhale frame data, you can use this to find out when Inhale true combos.
I'm sorry, but what is HBJ and HB?
 

Aunt Jemima

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Hammer Bash and Hammer Bash Jump. Hammer Bash boosts Kirby's upwards momentum for whatever reason, and was buffed further in this patch.

Also, while it's a bit early, from what we know, Kirby's going to suck in this patch. Contemplating dropping him because right now he's probably worse than release Kirby.
 

Wintermelon43

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Hammer Bash and Hammer Bash Jump. Hammer Bash boosts Kirby's upwards momentum for whatever reason, and was buffed further in this patch.

Also, while it's a bit early, from what we know, Kirby's going to suck in this patch. Contemplating dropping him because right now he's probably worse than release Kirby.
What are you talking about? Kirby was buffed in this patch.
 

Bribery

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What are you talking about? Kirby was buffed in this patch.
The shield stun changes are terrible for Kirby. None of his moves seem to benefit much from it compared to other characters. Dair is slightly safer but it doesn't seem to get the same benefit from this change as Yoshi's did.

It's harder for him to approach because shielding is less safe than before.

Kirby's buffs are only on his customs which don't really matter competitively at this point.
 

Aunt Jemima

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Kirby's pretty trash now. His weaknesses are accentuated because he can't approach at all. Camping him out is easier, poking him is easier, disjoints are harder to deal with, etc.

A ton of MUs are going to get worse. Things we previously won such as Villager are going to be near impossible now.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but if not I'll just move on to Lucas who seems like a ton of fun now.
 

MrMFC

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This is a terrible day for us Kirby mains...
Anyways, something's frame data got changed by 5 frames; did anyone find out what got changed? The guy who data-mined couldn't find out what exactly changed
 
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Aunt Jemima

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lol imagine if Kirby had blockstrings, he'd be so scary with blockstrings and Hammer Flip

pls buff Sakurai thx
 

SapphSabre777

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This is a terrible day for us Kirby mains...
It is heartbreaking...all that work and study and research on Kirby, down the drain. Like it really is making me consider dropping Smash 4 for good.
 

Bribery

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It's kind of depressing. Kirby got a lot of buffs that made him a viable character. Then this patch comes along and negates all that.

The one thing that gives me hope is that the character changes were pretty minimal this patch aside from Luigi. That tells me that they're testing the waters with the shield stun changes, and will probably buff characters accordingly next patch.
 

Wintermelon43

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Wait, wasn't he buffed with the shield stun? Didn't he do bad with being unsafe on shield? So the disadvantages counter the advantages and he's the same in viability?
 

SapphSabre777

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Wait, wasn't he buffed with the shield stun? Didn't he do bad with being unsafe on shield? So the disadvantages counter the advantages and he's the same in viability?
Far from it, his disadvantages increased substantially to where Kirby virtually has no niche. Heavy-hitting characters have more shieldstun to lead on, rewarding them for offense. Characters with range got safer and quick characters get to weave in-and-out more. Kirby cannot get hit heavy-hitters unless he gets KOed. Kirby cannot approach at all if any of the three are present, which is ALL of the cast. He is one of the worst characters in the game, easily.
 

MrMFC

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For whatever reason it didn't make him better; now he can't use RAR up air to approach anymore and is lacking even more approaches including his shield since nearly everyone is way safer on shield

Edit: ninja'd
Edit 2: So basically Kirby has no approaches at all, is slow, his mobility is bad too, he gets killed quite early and has problems killing. The only good things I see are his floatiness which makes him getting less combo'd and good combos on fast fallers, but ye we probably don't have many even/good match ups anymore
 
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SapphSabre777

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For whatever reason it didn't make him better; now he can't use RAR up air to approach anymore and is lacking even more approaches including his shield since nearly everyone is way safer on shield
Yeah, that's the icing on the cake there. At least Jigglypuff can weave in-and-out, but this...this pretty much makes it clear that Kirby is arguably the worst character in the game.
 

Wintermelon43

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Well then, I hope this end's up like how most nerfs work.

The Fox mains were saying he would be like 10-15 spots lower sue to his nerfs last patch, now he's considered the same thing. I really hope this happens to Kirby, or else the apolcalypse is happening

Edit:Although I guess he had buffs last patch to counter it so......
 
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kirbyfan66

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I think we're overreacting a little bit, he's far from the worst character, but the shield stun change definitely hurt him bad. Hopefully he gets some helpful buffs next time around, I guess...
 

Triple R

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I'm glad I have all these Kirby players that for sure have gone to like 20 tournies since the patch launched and have explored him completely to tell me he's bad now.
 

Bribery

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Yeah it could turn out that these changes aren't as significant in practice and we're just overreacting :p

But on paper it does look dire for Kirby.
 

kirbyfan66

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I just wish he had could take advantage of this shield stuff! I can only hope we'll find stuff somewhere down the line.

Also, why is RAR Up Air a bad option now? Somebody mentioned it earlier but I'm not following. It's unchanged, if it was good before then it's good now, right?
 

TimG57867

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Yah, I think it's a little soon to be crying doom. While we probably aren't the biggest benefiters, I doubt this has made Kirby straight up unviable. We have to see and wait how this works out in practice which will be a while since BH5 is running 1.10.

On a more optimistic note, how's Final Cutter? With the greater shield stun, a well placed Final Cutter could be far less punishable now, even for speedy characters. I need to test this
 
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Poupoko

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Where's all this coming from? It's not like Kirby had any approaches to begin with and dash into shield will only get you so far anyway. On the other hand, this makes Kirby even stronger up close since we can poke and convert really well. I've been trying out well-spaced F-airs on shield, that seems to be doing okay (though I can't really compare it to 1.1.0).

On a more optimistic note, how's Final Cutter? With the greater shield stun, a well placed Final Cutter could be far less punishable now, even for speedy characters. I need to test this
You can still be badly punished. The projectile is small and the endlag is atrocious.
 

UncleDaddy

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No need to dwell on the negative. I think its more important to ask: Is there ANYTHING we can do on shield now that's safe, that wasn't safe before?
 

TimG57867

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Where's all this coming from? It's not like Kirby had any approaches to begin with and dash into shield will only get you so far anyway. On the other hand, this makes Kirby even stronger up close since we can poke and convert really well. I've been trying out well-spaced F-airs on shield, that seems to be doing okay (though I can't really compare it to 1.1.0).



You can still be badly punished. The projectile is small and the endlag is atrocious.
Hmm. Thought so. But I bet it's definitely not AS easy to punish now if they shield anyway.

Also I agree. I mean sure, shielding and running up was a nice tool, but it's not like it was my only get in. Sure Kirby's air speed is poor, but I am sure the six jumps will still go a long way in dealing with certain characters' projectiles and our crouch is as good as ever. Another thing to consider is that while his neutral has gotten weaker (who thought that was possible? :laugh:) against characters packing potent projectile games, we still have inhale. There's only a few characters that are a nightmare for us to face even when we take their neutral B (and now it seems :4luigi: may no longer be one of them!) and if we get their projectile, we can abuse the same advantages. This might just give us more incentive to get enemy powers at the start of the match. Plus, while D-Air may not still not be super safe, it's not the only move we should look at. We need time to see how shielding will do against Kirby's other moves, especially the high damaging ones like F-Smash and Down B. And their could be use for D-Air yet.

Plus with the exception of Luigi, no character had their kit massively tweeked this patch. Chances are, if this update really does hurt Kirby notably (which I can't see being as detrimental as some people here make it out to be) we'll probably (hopefully) benefit from frame data buffs in the next rebalancing patch. With the right buffs, Kirby could benefit a lot in the long run. I should also add that as nice as shielding and dashing was for Kirby, shields were kind of problem for him in turn because our Up Throw was (and still IS. Buff next time please) weak. If this discourages shielding, landing kill moves may or may not be a little easier.

In any case, it's too early to tell how this will alter the metagame. I definitely think it's abusrd to think we're now unviable because we can't act of a shield for 3 less frames. I mean who's to say other characters won't suffer more once the effects of this change once it really starts to set?
 
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SapphSabre777

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No need to dwell on the negative. I think its more important to ask: Is there ANYTHING we can do on shield now that's safe, that wasn't safe before?
I'll probably check that in a day or two. My head hurts, what with all these changes going around. At least it gives me something to hope for in Kirby.
 

Altair357

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I... don't really understand what the patch changed. More shieldstun? But like, what are some practical examples of that affecting the outcome of a match? I only know that multihits can lock you in shield now? Pls explain.
 
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Poupoko

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Hmm. Thought so. But I bet it's definitely not AS easy to punish now if they shield anyway.
Technically speaking, I guess you're right, but it still is incredibly punishable even with the new frame advantage (which speaks volumes about how it was before). Not that it doesn't have its uses of course.

I... don't really understand what the patch changed. More shieldstun? But like, what are some practical examples of that affecting the outcome of a match? I only know that multihits can lock you in shield now? Pls explain.
Basically with universal shield stun, you can't act out of shield as quickly. This makes more moves unpunishable / creates more opportunities for the attacker. Essentially playing defensively got nerfed and people think this will encourage offense (easy to see why). But Kirby "supposedly" can't take advantage of this since he has neither speed nor range. That leaves playing defensively, which just got nerfed, so Kirby ends up being "worse overall."

I think this whole shieldstun thing is a bit overblown, though we do have to watch out for quite a few new things. Our rewards are still really good, and our damage output is spot on. Like TimG57867 TimG57867 said, we still have an actual CQC game to go along with our multiple jumps, something not many other characters have. Being stuck in shield for 3 extra frames hopefully won't do much to our game, but we should have the tools to get around it.
 

Purin a.k.a. José

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Holy thing, I kind of noticed the matches were harder today! So the Shieldstun change was NEGATIVE for Kirby?! Damn it, I was hoping for D-Air to be much better now... Also, no Up-Throw buff :( Why do that for your child, Sakurai
But, seriously, emotions aside, is Kirby really that terminated? I'm not a comparing dude, but Jigglypuff, who has WAY lesser range than Kirby (I'm a Jiggs secondary, I know her kind of well) is being considered better after this. Also, he has a D-Tilt that can Shield-Poke pretty well. Shields are more fragile, so he can do that faster, or I'm wrong?
 
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