King K. Rool early moveset discussion

[Dε√ilj∦o]

I'm extremely optimistic about K. Rool as well. People are already saying he might be the best heavyweight in the series. His moveset is potent and crazy. His deals insane damage, all of his normals are very, very good, his throws are amazing and he has good mobility, armor and recovery... Like damn, I wasnt expecting K. Rool to be that good from the start. Of course the game isnt out yet so we have yet to see pro gameplay and matchups in action but let's be real, K. Rool just seems like a very, very viable character. I'm hyped!

Sorry again for not keeping with this thread ; school is killing me and I just have no time to go deep into K. Rool for now and update the OP. It's alright because we can still discuss new stuff we find but I just feel bad for not having time to make this thread better for people who want to join.

If anyone, like a moderator or something can take care of it I'd be grateful. I love you all K. Roolers.

 

[Tinfoil]

So... K. Rool has super armor on all belly attacks but his armor can break?
Interesting.

 

[G-Guy]

so my guys, in this video, around the 0:23 seconds mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHkbMKW6p-Y

does the player charge the crown throw? was it something that we already knew to be possible and I am just late to the party?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

so my guys, in this video, around the 0:23 seconds mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHkbMKW6p-Y

does the player charge the crown throw? was it something that we already knew to be possible and I am just late to the party?

That is definitely a charging animation. This is probably the first time we've seen it too.

I guess the longer it's charged the farther the crown travels? That could make the move better at zoning than we thought.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

I don't know what you guys are talking about? All I could see at the 0:23 mark is the King throwing his crown once, then twice and getting it back. The move always has the same duration and doesn't seem to charge.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

so my guys, in this video, around the 0:23 seconds mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHkbMKW6p-Y

does the player charge the crown throw? was it something that we already knew to be possible and I am just late to the party?

I think that flash is indicating someone hitting super armor. because the start of crown throw does have super armor as we can see.

 

[GAINAX]

Looks like F-tilt has super armour and can crack armour too, even though that move doesn't use the belly.

I think K Rool's position on the tier list will be determined by how many of his moves are susceptible to armour breakage.

 

[S_B]

https://youtu.be/9wMzBcstwTg

You can see a super armor break around 1:30 in.

Looks like it's a full blown shield break when it happens.

Really hoping we need to be attacking in order for the armor to trigger because it'll be somewhat easier to break otherwise...

 

[Izanagi97]

Saw the Bair Spike hitbox land (it landed once earlier in the match, but I wanted to use this killshot here) and all I can say is "Jesus christ, I can feel that."

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Saw the Bair Spike hitbox land (it landed once earlier in the match, but I wanted to use this killshot here) and all I can say is "Jesus christ, I can feel that."

Holy **** man. This is the highest level of play we've seen yet for K. Rool. What a great character. This footage has made me as hype as the first Snake battle we got back in August.

 

[S_B]

Saw the Bair Spike hitbox land (it landed once earlier in the match, but I wanted to use this killshot here) and all I can say is "Jesus christ, I can feel that."

Holy ****.

I want to play this character so badly it hurts....

 

[G-Guy]

if watching good K Rool gameplay feels that satisfying already, whooo boy, playing him is gonna be ecstatic!

 

[mediyogurt]

Saw the Bair Spike hitbox land (it landed once earlier in the match, but I wanted to use this killshot here) and all I can say is "Jesus christ, I can feel that."

King K Rool looks so fun. They did our King right boys.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Nair to Jab looks like a true combo at low percents and does 25%.

K. Rool's forward smash kills stupidly early. I don't remember which character it was but I remember someone dying from it at ~60-70% from the middle of the stage.

 

[G-Guy]

Nair to Jab looks like a true combo at low percents and does 25%.

K. Rool's forward smash kills stupidly early. I don't remember which character it was but I remember someone dying from it at ~60-70% from the middle of the stage.

That was Ken and yeah, the Angle F smash sends opponents is ridiculously flat. i love it!

 

[S_B]

In the last 5 seconds of this match, dash attack KOs Charizard at 64%:
https://youtu.be/q0zD_qYFBeE

He's still reasonably far from the blast zone en it happens, too. Seems on par with D3's at least.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

The dash attack Kill was probably bad DI but, in general, K. Rool's dash attack is pretty decent and its both faster and has less end lag than Dedede's.

Anyways I've been able to watch some of those new gameplay and here's some stuff I gathered:

- Forward tilt is amazing. It's a little slow on the startup, but it looks really safe on shield, AND it looks like it can kill at reasonably high percents. As you can see in the video S_B posted above, it killed Zelda from the middle of the stage at 115%... That's crazy. Could be bad DI too, I can't tell. I'm still very optimistic about that move.

- Back throw looks like it could be a potential kill throw ; although we have our broken down throw to, sort of, confirm kills too.

- Up air is very interesting... and weird. When K. Rool uses it, he makes a little hop while doing the headbutt ; so I thought this could help recovery tremendously (we already have good recovery but you know), however, when used high in the air, this move has a ton of endlag where K. Rool doesnt seem to be able to act out of, it has a sort of animation where K. Rool smiles and falls after using it. So I think we can still use it to help recovery, but yeah, just a weird property that they probably added so that people won't abuse the leap it gives to gain height lol.

- Pretty sure I said this already but I can see Nair to jab being a true combo at low percents. Our jab is amazing too. It's a three hit combo à la gentlemen that connects very reliably. The first hit seem to come out really fast too ; might wanna look at the frame data on that.

- I had this "theory" or whatever you wanna call it, based on the trailer, that K. Rool has the exact same run speed as Donkey Kong. From what I've seen so far it looks like I was right. This is very good movement speed and, unlike Donkey Kong, K. Rool's dash dance is absolutely amazing and doesn't have a weird transitioning between dashing left and right.

 

[Tinfoil]

^ First hit of jab seems to come out at about frame 6.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

THERE IT IS LUIGI!

https://youtu.be/v_1ufCAcX_k

 

[G-Guy]

So, according to the analysis video of PushBlock, you can use the vacuum of neutral B without shooting the projectile out, first, giving K. Rool practically a Dedede suck as a command grab, with the difference that he can turn around before shooting out the enemy.

Now, the question I have is plain: Is K.-Roolicide/ Blundercide an option to consider, even just for fun?

Can one jump off stage, suck in the enemy while falling and angle the shot backwards to launch them under the stage for a potential stage spike? uh I wanna try this out so badly

 

[Kincaid1]

So, according to the analysis video of PushBlock, you can use the vacuum of neutral B without shooting the projectile out, first, giving K. Rool practically a Dedede suck as a command grab, with the difference that he can turn around before shooting out the enemy.

Now, the question I have is plain: Is K.-Roolicide/ Blundercide an option to consider, even just for fun?

Can one jump off stage, suck in the enemy while falling and angle the shot backwards to launch them under the stage for a potential stage spike? uh I wanna try this out so badly

I didn't even think of that; I hope so. I'm not entirely certain that you'll be able to reverse a blunderbuss refire in the air (in my head I just don't see the movement for that happening midair), but given that you can reverse a falcon punch midair which also makes no sense, yeah, I'd say you can probably reverse a refire midair. Holy ****.

Also if this tech works out it is officially being named "Blundercide" lol.

 

[Luigifan18]

So, according to the analysis video of PushBlock, you can use the vacuum of neutral B without shooting the projectile out, first, giving K. Rool practically a Dedede suck as a command grab, with the difference that he can turn around before shooting out the enemy.

Now, the question I have is plain: Is K.-Roolicide/ Blundercide an option to consider, even just for fun?

Can one jump off stage, suck in the enemy while falling and angle the shot backwards to launch them under the stage for a potential stage spike? uh I wanna try this out so badly

What I want to know is the startup lag of the Blunderbuss vacuum without the cannonball. PushBlock completely forgot to mention that. Is the vacuum faster to come out than the cannonball?

 

[Z1GMA]

DA looks like a nice zonebreaker move against bairs and such.

Im liking the crown. Looks like it should be able to apply passive pressure in some situations.

Do we know if he has a decent killthrow?
Any low% combos from a throw?

 

[G-Guy]

DA looks like a nice zonebreaker move against bairs and such.

Im liking the crown. Looks like it should be able to apply passive pressure in some situations.

Do we know if he has a decent killthrow?
Any low% combos from a throw?

D-throw pretty much into everything, up throw can possibly kill, so does back throw

 

[Mysteltainn]

D-Throw is dependent on how easily a person can wiggle out of the burial. The Treehouse reps seemed to convey that it was pretty damn easy to get out of, but pointed out that it'll be important to do a follow-up (as K. Rool) depending on where your enemy will likely wiggle out to (which side of K. Rool, or attempt to jump up) and read them kind of like you would someone trying to recover (roll onto the stage, jump up, attack, etc).

By the sounds of it, utilising D-Throw may be one of the things that signify a good K. Rool from a great one, since more experience with people wiggling out of it and determining which skill to follow-up with might be pretty important.

 

[Putuk]

Are we CERTAIN that suction-only Blunderbuss is a thing?

In the PushBlock analysis, if you look closely at the footage they used when talking about this subject, you can see a Kannonball drop behind K. Rool while he is starting up the move. PushBlock may have had a slight oversight here.

 

[S_B]

Are we CERTAIN that suction-only Blunderbuss is a thing?

In the PushBlock analysis, if you look closely at the footage they used when talking about this subject, you can see a Kannonball drop behind K. Rool while he is starting up the move. PushBlock may have had a slight oversight here.

Wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

I'm worried his kit is overloaded as it is, and having both a projectile AND a command grab at the push of the same button feels like a bit much.

 

[G-Guy]

Are we CERTAIN that suction-only Blunderbuss is a thing?

In the PushBlock analysis, if you look closely at the footage they used when talking about this subject, you can see a Kannonball drop behind K. Rool while he is starting up the move. PushBlock may have had a slight oversight here.

actually thought about that, too, but I remember there being footage that shows off a firing animation while the kannonball was out, already, with the Blunderbuss simply emitting a puff of smoke.

EDIT: Yes, found it!

if you observe closely (I watched it at 0.5 speed, just to be certain) around the 28 second mark, you see K. Rool shooting out a Ball, which hits ROB.
He then sucks it back in and shoots it out immediately after.
Then the player follows up with another neutral B, however, you see that the Blunderbuss is ejecting smoke only, due to the kannonball still being in play

The video by Pushblock is completely missing that puff of smoke, even though a kannonball is still present on the map. This therefore leads me to believe that vacuum only is an actual thing

that misfire animation is completely missing in the video shown by Pushblock, which makes me believe in the instant sucking of K.Rool's neutral B and therefore into the dawn of the Blundercide

 

[S_B]

Thirty seconds in:
https://youtu.be/oroapSPtDas

Counter reflects projectiles.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Thirty seconds in:
https://youtu.be/oroapSPtDas

Counter reflects projectiles.

God I was just gonna post that lol, but I dont even get notifications for my own thread.

I'm speechless. K. Rool is so ****ing good....

 

[Rakurai]

I saw that you're able to actually aim both players and cannonballs straight up with the blunderbuss as opposed to only forward and backward.

Makes me wonder if you can get dirty KOs by jumping into an ascending cannonball with up throw if people decide to run underneath it.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rd1I8-tR2Q

Krown is too good

 

[Mysteltainn]

Something interesting to note is that the king will need to be careful of multi-hit attacks. I think many of us kind of knew already, but this is a demonstration of how wrong things can go if a K. Rool gets too reckless (at the 22s mark). This is great footage in general though. It's nice to see the characters being played in capable hands and being able to actually draw from footage unlike E3 footage, lol.

 

[Empty Number]

Something interesting to note is that the king will need to be careful of multi-hit attacks. I think many of us kind of knew already, but this is a demonstration of how wrong things can go if a K. Rool gets too reckless (at the 22s mark). This is great footage in general though. It's nice to see the characters being played in capable hands and being able to actually draw from footage unlike E3 footage, lol.

I read somewhere that K. Rool's armor breaks based off of damage absorbed. He tanked a charged up smash there from Captain Falcon. The stun may not be due to the multi-hit but due taking a pretty powerful attack right in the gut.

 

[S_B]

Something interesting to note is that the king will need to be careful of multi-hit attacks. I think many of us kind of knew already, but this is a demonstration of how wrong things can go if a K. Rool gets too reckless (at the 22s mark). This is great footage in general though. It's nice to see the characters being played in capable hands and being able to actually draw from footage unlike E3 footage, lol.

I was literally just coming here to post this.

Caution required, though the Falcon matchup doesn't look too bad.

 

[Mysteltainn]

Lots of good footage here if anyone is interested. There is some solid K. Rool play at the 52:00 mark through right to the end.

If there is a takeaway from this that I can see it's that K. Rool may struggle against swordies. Chrom really gave him no breathing room whatsoever and it really showed in the end. K. Rool had no real opportunity to set much of anything up, and I can see most of the FE cast posing similar challenges since they all tend to be pretty fast on their feet. It will be interesting to see once people become more comfortable with K. Rool if his tilts will help him deal with these characters or not.

Too early to tell, but pocketing one of the Belmonts may not be such a bad idea when facing these swordies. I personally intend to do this anyway since they look like a tonne of fun, and they appear to really do well against most of the FE cast's limited range.

 

[JohnKnight416]

Something interesting to note is that the king will need to be careful of multi-hit attacks. I think many of us kind of knew already, but this is a demonstration of how wrong things can go if a K. Rool gets too reckless (at the 22s mark). This is great footage in general though. It's nice to see the characters being played in capable hands and being able to actually draw from footage unlike E3 footage, lol.

How exactly did K.Rool's armor break that fast? Did he even throw out any move from K.Rool that had his armor property on it?

 

[Mysteltainn]

EDIT: It appears that there was discussion about this very match in the other thread as well, and someone said it was more or less kongfirmed that his belly withstands about 28% damage as opposed to # of hits; this is great news.

How exactly did K.Rool's armor break that fast? Did he even throw out any move from K.Rool that had his armor property on it?

One explanation is that from the footage, K. Rool used N-Air into Falcon's semi-charged U-Smash. Falcon's U-Smash hits multiple times, so what it suggests is that K. Rool's armour may be dependent on number of hits in succession over a relatively short period of time. This would probably be a neutral scenario overall.

Empty Number brought up a good point for thought though, and this could lead to a second explanation that K. Rool's belly has a HP pool of its own. This is logical, since if we imagine that if K. Rool uses N-Air into Ganondorf's Warlock Punch for example, it is reasonable to believe that it may straight-up shatter the belly right away due to the immense strength of that skill. On the flip side, this may mean that he can take more weaker hits such as someone using petty projectiles or rapid jab for example; it'd be pretty silly to think that the belly would break after 3 Little Mac punches or Mega Man Pellets that are only dealing around 0.50% each, lol. This would probably be the best scenario we can hope for.

A third option could be there as well, where both of the above apply, and perhaps K. Rool's belly has both of the above weaknesses and breaks simply depending on which threshold comes first; either overwhelming damage (Warlock Punch) OR a number of hit threshold is reached. This would probably be the worst scenario of the three due to the jab example I gave above, and I'd like to believe that this is not the case.

Whatever the case, we'll be able to find out in just a few days when we get our klaws on this delicious crystal coconut game.

 

[S_B]

Lots of good footage here if anyone is interested. There is some solid K. Rool play at the 52:00 mark through right to the end.

If there is a takeaway from this that I can see it's that K. Rool may struggle against swordies. Chrom really gave him no breathing room whatsoever and it really showed in the end. K. Rool had no real opportunity to set much of anything up, and I can see most of the FE cast posing similar challenges since they all tend to be pretty fast on their feet. It will be interesting to see once people become more comfortable with K. Rool if his tilts will help him deal with these characters or not.

Too early to tell, but pocketing one of the Belmonts may not be such a bad idea when facing these swordies. I personally intend to do this anyway since they look like a tonne of fun, and they appear to really do well against most of the FE cast's limited range.

I don't think it's that bad.

For starters, the KKR player jumped right into Chrom as he was charging an fsmash several times and never had the sense to counter.

Beyond that, Chrom's neutral NEEDS to be excellent because his disadvantaged state is horrendous.

Also, the real truth of Keith's potential is that I'm seeing players only BARELY tap into his ledge trap game. Between the crown his numerous spikes, it should be a simple matter to force them to airdodge and then chase offstage for a spike.

Seen it a few times, but old SSB4 habits die hard...

 

[Kincaid1]

The blunderbuss is looking a lot better than I thought it would be. It has little endlag, the kannonball is good, and the vacuum is a mega-mixup and kills at the ledge at 120%.

Regarding the vacuum, I've seen two main mixups using it:

1. K. Rool gets in close with the blunderbuss, opponent shields kannonball, K. Rool's vacuums them through the shieldstun.

Or

2. K. Rool fires kannonball at ledge, opponent thinks he is going to fire and run, gets up from ledge, gets surprised and succ'd when K. Rool actually stays holding the vacuum.

Can't wait to see what other wacky **** people pull off with it, especially given that you can drop and drift through platforms. It's like the ultimate mega-mind gimmick mixup tool.

https://twitter.com/schraderyo/status/1069737160515969025