G13_Flux
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
- Messages
- 1,076
Hello all,
I've made this thread because I've got some great ideas that I feel can expand ddds gameplay, and id like to hear more of the community's opinion on what ddds future is, as well as the development teams opinion and insights on the current iteration of the character (if any of them decide to participate). below is a list of design goals that I feel are very applicable to this discussion:
Risk vs reward
Normalization (to some degree)
Stimulation of creative gameplay
Dynamic MUs and MU spreads
I encourage people to think about DDD in terms of these, or other design goals put forth that are destined to direct the future of the game, as I feel like there hasn't been a ton of creative discussion centered around 3.5 DDD or his future.
Moving on, I have a list of modifications to DDD that I believe would only benefit the game's mu spread as a whole, increase thoughtful and creative gameplay, and appeal to players as being fun. They are as follows:
1. I feel that a slight recovery Nerf is in order. I'm going to put this out there in saying that I feel DDD has arguably the best recovery in the game, maybe tied with Kirby. With 3 jumps, undeniably amazing coverage on return (between waddle tosses and his aerials), and one of the highest reaching up bs in the game (not to mention its mixup potential with landing, sweet spotting, and reverse ledge grabbing), it's clear that his ability to survive is basically unparalleled considering he's. the 3rd heaviest in the game with the 9th(?) fastest falling speed. Honestly, I think it should stay that way, but up b could stand to be shortened by maybe half of his character length. It would just take some of the fat off. Honestly, no other character has the recovery options he does, and at the moment, it might be just a bit over done, and even without jumps, his recovery has more options than almost every other character.
2. slightly decreased traction (traction on waddle toss remains unchanged), and more noticeable moonwalk. The moonwalk will just give him an additional, basic, fundamental movement option for positioning and mix ups. Its nothing game breaking, but its enough to enhance the creativity of a nuanced play style. Decreased traction results in two equally important things. The first is, again, a minor improvement to his movement options. With a frame 6 jump squat already, and high start up normals (effectively 11 for jab and 12 for ftilt), I believe this tweak can help even out some lopsided MUs, without polarizing his already good ones. The second thing the decreased traction does is reduce his effective OOS grab range. Though minor, this small change can be important for nuanced spacing in MUs against chars like marth, Roy, and ike, ones he's considered to have a good advantage in. Overall he's very polarized into the extremese with certain attribute (terrible mobility and huge grab range). This just slightly normalizes these attributes.
3. A slightly decreased grab range OOS creates a thoughtful dynamic with this next change: decreasing the start up on both the armor and attack portion of grounded up b. This has been talked about in other places, but I think its something that should be taken seriously. Make grounded armor come out on frame 5 from 7, giving him an overall frame 6 OOS option for weak attacks. The attack can be decreased to 12 frames from 14. This simply encourages your opponent to mix up their pressure on your shield without being too strong. Plenty of characters have lower commitment moves that have near instantaneous invincibility or attacks (bowser, dk, zard, samus, gw, snake, and more). This also promotes DDD players to make use of platform canceling the up b, a rather challenging feat that rewards player skill, and overall is not an overbearing attribute on the opponent.
4. Increased range and damage for a grounded side b and increased odds of throwing a gordo (maybe 1 in 12). Additionally, less angles and no tilt throw. This can discourage an opponent from camping, but at the same time it doesn't really allow ddd to gain favorable space due to the move's 63 frame end lag. this also means that DDD can't throw waddle dees as close, meaning he is still encouraged to go airborne to throw waddles, as well as exploit the increased mobility options listed in point 2. This would improve some of his lopsided must, like pit, lucas, tink, and ivysaur.
Overall, I believe these changes will contribute to DDD players demonstrating an increased creativity during gameplay. More tools will be considered for their adjusted risk/reward dynamic, and there are fair tradeoffs that contribute to a slightly smoother MU spread. The Lucas, pit, ivysaur, and tink MUs are a few that i believe are currently bad but could get slightly better from the increased mobility and side b changes. MUs where DDD heavily excels, like Roy, marth,ike, and cf would get less polarized as well since they can edge guard a bit easier. At the same time, ddds character is preserved, and his unique, somewhat polarized play style is still left in tact for him to occupy his niche.
I am curious to see what others think in this regard. I believe I've proposed a very fair list of modifications that will only enhance creative gameplay, while meeting design goals of risk-reward management, with a slight direction toward normalization.
I've made this thread because I've got some great ideas that I feel can expand ddds gameplay, and id like to hear more of the community's opinion on what ddds future is, as well as the development teams opinion and insights on the current iteration of the character (if any of them decide to participate). below is a list of design goals that I feel are very applicable to this discussion:
Risk vs reward
Normalization (to some degree)
Stimulation of creative gameplay
Dynamic MUs and MU spreads
I encourage people to think about DDD in terms of these, or other design goals put forth that are destined to direct the future of the game, as I feel like there hasn't been a ton of creative discussion centered around 3.5 DDD or his future.
Moving on, I have a list of modifications to DDD that I believe would only benefit the game's mu spread as a whole, increase thoughtful and creative gameplay, and appeal to players as being fun. They are as follows:
1. I feel that a slight recovery Nerf is in order. I'm going to put this out there in saying that I feel DDD has arguably the best recovery in the game, maybe tied with Kirby. With 3 jumps, undeniably amazing coverage on return (between waddle tosses and his aerials), and one of the highest reaching up bs in the game (not to mention its mixup potential with landing, sweet spotting, and reverse ledge grabbing), it's clear that his ability to survive is basically unparalleled considering he's. the 3rd heaviest in the game with the 9th(?) fastest falling speed. Honestly, I think it should stay that way, but up b could stand to be shortened by maybe half of his character length. It would just take some of the fat off. Honestly, no other character has the recovery options he does, and at the moment, it might be just a bit over done, and even without jumps, his recovery has more options than almost every other character.
2. slightly decreased traction (traction on waddle toss remains unchanged), and more noticeable moonwalk. The moonwalk will just give him an additional, basic, fundamental movement option for positioning and mix ups. Its nothing game breaking, but its enough to enhance the creativity of a nuanced play style. Decreased traction results in two equally important things. The first is, again, a minor improvement to his movement options. With a frame 6 jump squat already, and high start up normals (effectively 11 for jab and 12 for ftilt), I believe this tweak can help even out some lopsided MUs, without polarizing his already good ones. The second thing the decreased traction does is reduce his effective OOS grab range. Though minor, this small change can be important for nuanced spacing in MUs against chars like marth, Roy, and ike, ones he's considered to have a good advantage in. Overall he's very polarized into the extremese with certain attribute (terrible mobility and huge grab range). This just slightly normalizes these attributes.
3. A slightly decreased grab range OOS creates a thoughtful dynamic with this next change: decreasing the start up on both the armor and attack portion of grounded up b. This has been talked about in other places, but I think its something that should be taken seriously. Make grounded armor come out on frame 5 from 7, giving him an overall frame 6 OOS option for weak attacks. The attack can be decreased to 12 frames from 14. This simply encourages your opponent to mix up their pressure on your shield without being too strong. Plenty of characters have lower commitment moves that have near instantaneous invincibility or attacks (bowser, dk, zard, samus, gw, snake, and more). This also promotes DDD players to make use of platform canceling the up b, a rather challenging feat that rewards player skill, and overall is not an overbearing attribute on the opponent.
4. Increased range and damage for a grounded side b and increased odds of throwing a gordo (maybe 1 in 12). Additionally, less angles and no tilt throw. This can discourage an opponent from camping, but at the same time it doesn't really allow ddd to gain favorable space due to the move's 63 frame end lag. this also means that DDD can't throw waddle dees as close, meaning he is still encouraged to go airborne to throw waddles, as well as exploit the increased mobility options listed in point 2. This would improve some of his lopsided must, like pit, lucas, tink, and ivysaur.
Overall, I believe these changes will contribute to DDD players demonstrating an increased creativity during gameplay. More tools will be considered for their adjusted risk/reward dynamic, and there are fair tradeoffs that contribute to a slightly smoother MU spread. The Lucas, pit, ivysaur, and tink MUs are a few that i believe are currently bad but could get slightly better from the increased mobility and side b changes. MUs where DDD heavily excels, like Roy, marth,ike, and cf would get less polarized as well since they can edge guard a bit easier. At the same time, ddds character is preserved, and his unique, somewhat polarized play style is still left in tact for him to occupy his niche.
I am curious to see what others think in this regard. I believe I've proposed a very fair list of modifications that will only enhance creative gameplay, while meeting design goals of risk-reward management, with a slight direction toward normalization.
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