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Kinda a Big Deal – Daitōryō Support Thread

Discussion in 'General Speculation' started by Pacack, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    Welcome to the Support Thread for Daitōryō!

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    FAQ

    Who?

    Daitōryō is a character based off of Napoleon Bonaparte that has appeared on Nintendo's highest quality "President" hanafuda cards since the company's inception in September 23, 1889. While never given an official name, the moniker Daitōryō (大統領) will be used to refer to the character in this thread.

    Wait, you're supporting Napoleon Bonaparte for Smash Bros.?

    Well, no. The character on the front of the cards was modeled after Napoleon, but is ultimately only a caricature meant to demonstrate the superb quality of the cards. He is the face that appears on the boxes which contain the cards.

    Why should I care?

    The previous three (four counting SSB3DS as a separate title) Super Smash Bros. games have included characters that personify a part of Nintendo's long-running history.

    Mr. Game & Watch was inspired by the characters found in Nintendo's Game & Watch games, which became Nintendo's first major financial success (selling 43.4 million units) and first handheld, cementing their place in the video game industry.

    R.O.B. was an accessory for the NES which was used to market the console as a novel toy to retailers and consumers in a market which had reservations about home video game consoles following the North American Video Game Crash of 1983. The inclusion of R.O.B. with the system convinced major retailers to sell the console, ultimately leading to the success of the NES and the revival of the entire Western video game industry. (Source)

    Duck Hunt is a character which is a little less obvious about its historical ties. However, I would argue that the character represents not only the extremely well-selling Duck Hunt video game, but also the lesser known Beam Gun, Laser Clay Shooting System, Wild Gunman, and Duck Hunt products released in the 1970s. The Wild Gunman arcade game in particular is noteworthy for being the first arcade game to feature full motion video (it used 16mm film) and recorded human voice.

    If this pattern continues, it's reasonable to conclude that another character will be added as a nod to Nintendo's history. Who better to represent the history of Nintendo than the first character Nintendo ever made? Representing Nintendo's roots as a maker of hand-painted hanafuda cards, Daitōryō could be the quirkiest character in Smash Bros. yet.

    Arguments

    Daitōryō cannot be included in Smash Bros. because he did not originate from a video game.

    This is a fair argument, definitely. However, R.O.B. did not originate from a video game either, and Mr. Game & Watch didn't even exist until Melee. While there were characters that looked like him in the Game & Watch titles, the character himself was an amalgam of Game & Watch characters created specifically for Melee.

    Further, much like R.O.B. before his inclusion in Brawl, Daitoryo and hanafuda have been referenced a number of times by Nintendo:

    Nintendo has produced Hanafuda cards featuring Mario and Pokemon characters for a few years now. Both parody the Daitoryo box.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    In the Japanese version of Album B, there is a reference to the Bush Warbler from the February suit.
    [​IMG]
    The "Talisman of Life" treasure in the game is actually a box of Daitoryo cards.
    [​IMG]
    The Nintendo-created Clubhouse Games for Nintendo DS included Koi-Koi (the most popular hanafuda game) in its collection.
    [​IMG]
    In the Japanese version of Mona's game "Quite Touched", the cherry blossom ribbon card appears.
    [​IMG]
    You could purchase three separate hanafuda themes for your 3DS right now if you so desired.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The February Bush Warbler card is referenced.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    When hackers broke into the NES Mini's emulation software, they found the following message:
    The lapels on the Happi outfit include the lettering 任天堂, Nintendo's name in Japanese, with the Marufuku logo above it. This same lettering is prominent on Nintendo products, namely Hanafuda, from the 1950s.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    He's from a box. How would he possibly fight?

    This is an important reason to consider the character, as there's a lot to draw from using the art of hanafuda as inspiration.

    [​IMG]

    There are twelve suits for every month of the year, each represented by a flower. Each suit has four cards, including two commons and two special cards. Games are played by collecting sets, such as commons, ribbons, animals, or "bright" cards. If you're interested, you can play Koi-Koi (the most popular hanafuda game) here.

    If you're having trouble seeing how that could fit into a cohesive moveset, here's one that I made as an example in 2013.
    Entrance Animation: General outline of character appears first, followed by the outline of the details, ending with Daitoryo being painted in. (Referencing the fact that all hanafuda cards were originally handcrafted by painting onto mulberry tree bark) OR A hanafuda card box drops from the sky and opens to release Daitoryo.

    Properties: Height is roughly between Charizard’s and Samus’ heights. About as wide as Snake or Link at the widest point. Is somewhat lighter than would be expected, but not extremely so. Play style involves keeping the opponent at a distance with Daitoryo’s long-reaching moves.

    Neutral Physical: Hits with pine branch for small damage. Only an AA combo, rather than an AAA combo. Does approximately 4% damage for the first hit and 6% for the second. Based off of basic pine cards from the December suit, only a double combo because there are only two commons in said suit)

    Side Physical: Kicks the ground and sends a flurry of maple leaves forward. Has good range and may trip opponent. Does only 1% damage per leaf, but there are several leaves. Not the best knockback. (based off of the October Maple leaf commons)

    Up Physical: Daitoryo waves some bush clover branches in a sweeping motion over his head (from front to back). Decent, but not amazing knockback that can be used for combos. Does about 9% damage. (based off of the July bush clover commons)

    Down Physical: Causes a small peony bush to sprout directly in front of Daitoryo (butterflies fly out from it as well, but don’t do damage or interact with the opponent). Sends opponents almost directly upwards. Does approximately 11% damage and good knockback, but is predictable and has some frame lag. (based off of the June peony commons)

    Dash Attack: Pulls out a chrysanthemum bouquet and swings it as he dashes (based off of the September chrysanthemums)

    Up Smash: Thrusts an umbrella into the air and opens it (as it opens, a frog comes out for purely for humor’s sake). Does good damage and knockback, but has some beginning lag. (based off of Rain Man’s umbrella and frog)

    Side Smash: Swings a fairly bulky paulownia branch forward at the opponent. Heavy damage and knockback. (based off of the January paulownias)

    Down Smash: Makes tall susuki grass sprout from the ground on one side of him and a small willow tree on the other. The grass sends opponents diagonally up and away from Daitoryo, while the willow simply hits them upwards. (based off of the susuki grass and willow common cards)

    Neutral Aerial: Daitoryo spins around (somewhat like Zelda's or Ness' nairs) in the air and irises fly out of his sleeves. Poor knockback and decent damage, but good range. (based off of the May irises)

    Forward Aerial: Swings a large plain ribbon in front of him in an arch shape. It can hit easily, but is not very powerful. (based off of the ribbon cards)

    Back Aerial: Snaps a large plain ribbon behind him like a whip. Hits very hard and with good range, but is extremely difficult to sweetspot. (based off of the ribbon cards)

    Up Aerial: Butterflies fly out from out of Daitoryo’s sleeves and go straight upwards. They are hard to sweetspot, but they provide a decent killing move. Does only 3% damage and minimal knockback when not sweetspotted, but will do good damage with great knockback when they do.

    Down Aerial: Hits whatever is in front of him with a plank from an eight plank bridge. Has spiking properties. (based on the May “animal” card)

    Neutral Special: Throws poetry sake cup at the opponent. Does surprisingly high damage, but is very small and difficult to hit opponents with. (based off of the September poetry sake cup “animal” wildcard)

    Side Special: Summons a boar, deer, and butterflies that run quickly as a herd across the stage until they disappears. High damage and knockback, but easily avoided, as they will only run straight. (based off of the July, October, and June animal cards and the Ino-Shika-Cho group.)

    Up Special: Summons multiple types of birds that fly sporadically upwards and grabs onto a crane that lifts Daitoryo about as efficiently as Pit’s up special. Damage done to opponents depends on the birds that hit them. (based off of the various animal cards for January, February, April, August, and November.)

    Down Special: Holds up the jinmaku (camp curtain) to absorb enemy projectiles. Does not deflect or heal the user. (based off of the March “bright” card)

    Grab: Wisteria vines shoot out from Daitoryo's sleeves and ensnare the opponent. (based off of the wisteria cards)

    Hit: The vines crush the opponent

    Forward throw: Daitoryo throws the opponent with the vines and whips them quickly.

    Back throw: Daitoryo throws the opponent over his shoulder.

    Up-Throw: Daitoryo throws his opponent directly over his head and smacks him with the blue ribbon. (Reference to the blue ribbons)

    Down Throw: Daitoryo releases his opponent and slaps them into the ground with the poetry ribbon. (Reference to the red poetry ribbons)

    Final Smash: Summons Chinese Phoenix which attacks the entire stage with fire. The stage’s background becomes red with a completely white circle as the moon as this is happening. (Reference to the August and December Bright cards)

    Resources
    Series Symbol:
    [​IMG]
    Roster Maker Icon:
    [​IMG]

    Historical Archive
    [​IMG]

    This comparison shows the art on the daitoryo deck box beside the painting L’empereur Napoléon Ier dans son cabinet de travail en 1807 (Emperor Napoleon the First Working in his Study in 1807) circa ~1837-1840, attributed to Hippolyte-Paul Delaroche. This is likely the portrait which was used as inspiration for the design.
    This photo was released by the city of Kyoto in an article titled “Memories of Kyoto, 150 Years After The Meiji Period.” Allegedly, this is a photo of the "Marufuku Nintendo Card Company" from the year of the company's founding. (Source) Note the image of Daitoryo to the far left advertising the cards.
    [​IMG]
    This deck is probably in a replacement box, so Daitoryo does not appear on it. However, the cards are old, and very interesting.Source
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    While not a daitoryo deck, this is very well preserved for its age. (Yes, the Tengu could also be used as a Hanafuda representative; no, it is not seen as often.)Source
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Source
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This same display was also featured in Nintendo's Osaka 2007 Museum Event.
    [​IMG]
    This is actually a separate deck from Hanafuda, made in a similar style. Source
    [​IMG]

    The cards for this deck would look like this:
    [​IMG]
    This is also not a hanafuda deck, but another similar style.Source
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

     
    #1 Pacack, Jan 23, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  2. Irene

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    We are the chumpions!

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    5. Character threads must be for characters who originated from a video game

    I appreciate the hard work(as you did a great job), but it still goes against the forum rules. Sorry I have to lock it.
     
  3. Fuzzy Pickles!

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    Say, FUZZY PICKLES!!!

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    After much discussion, we have decided to open up this thread again. To @Pacack and all Daitoryo supporters, enjoy your new thread!

    ~Fuzzy Pickles!
     
    Pacack likes this.
  4. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    I will be working on updating my moveset and upgrading the OP as time goes on. Expect an update later today with more historical trinkets :)

    EDIT: The new Historical Archive section has now been added to the OP. Please feel free to read through it if you're interested in Daitoryo's history.

    EDIT 2: References to hanafuda by Nintendo have been added to the OP.
     
    #4 Pacack, Jan 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  5. GoldenYuiitusin

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    I may be more accepting of the idea of a character that utilizes Hanafuda as the token "surprise character" than I was years ago, but.....

    "Who better to represent the history of Nintendo than the first character Nintendo ever made?"

    Nintendo didn't make Napoleon Bonaparte. No, "Daitoryou" isn't some character they made that uses Napoleon's likeness. That is literally Napoleon.
    Changing his name to the name of the deck variant he represents doesn't turn him into an original character.

    Look at this man.

    [​IMG]

    This is Hitler, obviously. From his appearance in the Dragon Ball Z movie "Fusion Reborn". But he's not referred to as "Hitler" at all here.
    No, he's referred to as simply "The Dictator". But he's obviously Hitler, not an original character Toei Animation made. Get my point?
    And yes, this is one case where Godwin's Law DOES apply and is completely relevant. :laugh:

    Besides, how are you so sure the Daitoryou deck is the first deck with a mascot? Did you forget that the Tengu variant exists?

    [​IMG]
    Daitoryou is merely the deck that was the most popular, which is why it gets several references to this day.
    However, that's not to say the Tengu deck is unpopular. In fact, it's stated to be one of the most popular decks as well, second only to the Daitoryou deck in quality.
    And if we're being technical, the Tengu is more significant to the origin of "Nintendo" and "Hanafuda". Heck, for Hanafuda in general, the Tengu is a significant figure.

    If anything, I'm willing to bet this depiction of the Tengu is the most likely for the title of "Nintendo's first character".

    And a demon-god of Japanese culture would be a lot more befitting to represent a card game of Japanese origin than a long-deceased French Emperor anyway, don't you think? :p
     
    #5 GoldenYuiitusin, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  6. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    Good to see you again, Golden.

    I do completely understand where you’re coming from with that argument. It could easily be considered off-putting to people to see Napoleon running around in a Nintendo game with the likes of Mario. Now, personally, I do think that it’s prudent to make the distinction between the historical Napoleon and the caricature by Nintendo. The former is undeniably what the latter is based on, but they are not precisely the same. I won't argue that they are entirely separate, naturally.

    What I will argue is that Nintendo doesn’t particularly care to distance itself from the fact that the face of its hanafuda cards is Napoleon.

    I would redirect you to the references section of the OP. Nintendo has repeatedly shown that it is perfectly willing to make references to the Daitoryo Hanafuda sets despite them depicting Napoleon Bonaparte on their front. Heck, they even put Mario, Mr. Nintendo himself, into Napoleon's uniform.

    [​IMG]

    Despite any personal qualms you may have with the characters origins and the connections with the French Emperor, and despite how jarring you may find it to see him alongside the rest of Nintendo's elite, Nintendo as a company - bluntly - doesn't care. They not only recognize it as an immutable part of their history - they embrace it, referencing it in even their most recent products.

    I can answer that with a little bit of a foray into the Historical Archive that I collected.

    Photo of Nintendo's Headquarters, 1889:
    [​IMG]

    Note the flyer on the far left featuring Napoleon.

    While I would not be against the Tengu appearing in place of Napoleon as a hanafuda representative, the strong association between Nintendo's hanafuda cards and Napoleon is one that has existed since the company's very inception. This is something that is also consistently seen in references, as you noted. It is the Daitoryo deck, not the Tengu deck, which is referenced consistently when the front of the box is shown. If the Tengu was indeed the company's first character and was indeed more important to Nintendo's history, then why on Earth would Nintendo never reference it like they do with Napoleon and the Daitoryo deck?

    You said it yourself: the most popular hanafuda cards are (and always have been) the Daitoryo deck. The Tengu deck is second to it, as is the character portrayed on its box.

    Tell me, if one character from Nintendo's video game franchises were to represent the company, who would it be, Mario or Pikachu? (I'll give you a hint: it's the one that's the same color as the company's logo.)

    While Pikachu is undoubtedly important to Nintendo, it wouldn't make sense to promote Pikachu, the second most well-recognized Nintendo character, over Mario, the first. The same goes for representing Nintendo's card game roots. Why choose the second most relevant character of hanafuda over the most relevant one?
     
    #6 Pacack, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  7. Nonno Umby

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    He is such an oddball...that I kinda want to see him in. Add me to the supporters list please!

    About the argument "Daitoryo is just a Napoleon caricature", if it wasn't a problem for Henry Fleming from Code Name Steam, I don't see why it should be here.
     
    #7 Nonno Umby, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  8. Oddball

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    If you want to have a character that embodies Nintendo's history as a card game maker, I don't think Napoleon works. If you want something to represent the cards, let's use the actual cards.

    Maybe something more like this.
    [​IMG]

    Except, you know, Napoleon. Or you could shuffle the deck around and change how he appears for different attacks.
     
  9. Pacack

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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    Gladly!

    I don't mean this to sound disrespectful, but please consider reading the section of the OP which elaborates on what hanafuda cards are. They are not western playing cards. In fact, Western playing cards were banned in Japan when Nintendo first started making the cards.
     
    #9 Pacack, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  10. Oddball

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    If you're trying not to be disrespectful, you're doing a poor job. I never said they were western cards. I didn't say they were anything like western cards.

    I used that example to illustrate the idea of fighting an actual living card with an animated design capable of reaching out, rather than just using the character on the card to represent the cards themselves.
     
    #10 Oddball, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  11. Spud125

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    WTF? Weird inclusion, if you create a moveset add me to the supporters list please :v
     
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  12. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    This would be fairly difficult to do considering that the majority of the cards have illustrations of flowers and plants on them, with a few animals. I'm not trying to be insulting; I just don't see how that idea makes any sense for the cards at hand. While the idea makes sense for western cards (as they have people on them), there's only one card in the that includes a person in hanafuda.

    Should I add you to the supporters list?
     
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  13. Spud125

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    Are you gonna make a moveset? If you make one and it loos good, add me, please.
     
  14. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    I'm sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

    The following spoiler contains a moveset that I made some time ago. While it's a little out of date, it does give the general idea. Just open the spoiler to view it. :)
    Entrance Animation: General outline of character appears first, followed by the outline of the details, ending with Daitoryo being painted in. (Referencing the fact that all hanafuda cards were originally handcrafted by painting onto mulberry tree bark) OR A hanafuda card box drops from the sky and opens to release Daitoryo.

    Properties: Height is roughly between Charizard’s and Samus’ heights. About as wide as Snake or Link at the widest point. Is somewhat lighter than would be expected, but not extremely so. Play style involves keeping the opponent at a distance with Daitoryo’s long-reaching moves.

    Neutral Physical: Hits with pine branch for small damage. Only an AA combo, rather than an AAA combo. Does approximately 4% damage for the first hit and 6% for the second. Based off of basic pine cards from the December suit, only a double combo because there are only two commons in said suit)

    Side Physical: Kicks the ground and sends a flurry of maple leaves forward. Has good range and may trip opponent. Does only 1% damage per leaf, but there are several leaves. Not the best knockback. (based off of the October Maple leaf commons)

    Up Physical: Daitoryo waves some bush clover branches in a sweeping motion over his head (from front to back). Decent, but not amazing knockback that can be used for combos. Does about 9% damage. (based off of the July bush clover commons)

    Down Physical: Causes a small peony bush to sprout directly in front of Daitoryo (butterflies fly out from it as well, but don’t do damage or interact with the opponent). Sends opponents almost directly upwards. Does approximately 11% damage and good knockback, but is predictable and has some frame lag. (based off of the June peony commons)

    Dash Attack: Pulls out a chrysanthemum bouquet and swings it as he dashes (based off of the September chrysanthemums)

    Up Smash: Thrusts an umbrella into the air and opens it (as it opens, a frog comes out for purely for humor’s sake). Does good damage and knockback, but has some beginning lag. (based off of Rain Man’s umbrella and frog)

    Side Smash: Swings a fairly bulky paulownia branch forward at the opponent. Heavy damage and knockback. (based off of the January paulownias)

    Down Smash: Makes tall susuki grass sprout from the ground on one side of him and a small willow tree on the other. The grass sends opponents diagonally up and away from Daitoryo, while the willow simply hits them upwards. (based off of the susuki grass and willow common cards)

    Neutral Aerial: Daitoryo spins around (somewhat like Zelda's or Ness' nairs) in the air and irises fly out of his sleeves. Poor knockback and decent damage, but good range. (based off of the May irises)

    Forward Aerial: Swings a large plain ribbon in front of him in an arch shape. It can hit easily, but is not very powerful. (based off of the ribbon cards)

    Back Aerial: Snaps a large plain ribbon behind him like a whip. Hits very hard and with good range, but is extremely difficult to sweetspot. (based off of the ribbon cards)

    Up Aerial: Butterflies fly out from out of Daitoryo’s sleeves and go straight upwards. They are hard to sweetspot, but they provide a decent killing move. Does only 3% damage and minimal knockback when not sweetspotted, but will do good damage with great knockback when they do.

    Down Aerial: Hits whatever is in front of him with a plank from an eight plank bridge. Has spiking properties. (based on the May “animal” card)

    Neutral Special: Throws poetry sake cup at the opponent. Does surprisingly high damage, but is very small and difficult to hit opponents with. (based off of the September poetry sake cup “animal” wildcard)

    Side Special: Summons a boar, deer, and butterflies that run quickly as a herd across the stage until they disappears. High damage and knockback, but easily avoided, as they will only run straight. (based off of the July, October, and June animal cards and the Ino-Shika-Cho group.)

    Up Special: Summons multiple types of birds that fly sporadically upwards and grabs onto a crane that lifts Daitoryo about as efficiently as Pit’s up special. Damage done to opponents depends on the birds that hit them. (based off of the various animal cards for January, February, April, August, and November.)

    Down Special: Holds up the jinmaku (camp curtain) to absorb enemy projectiles. Does not deflect or heal the user. (based off of the March “bright” card)

    Grab: Wisteria vines shoot out from Daitoryo's sleeves and ensnare the opponent. (based off of the wisteria cards)

    Hit: The vines crush the opponent

    Forward throw: Daitoryo throws the opponent with the vines and whips them quickly.

    Back throw: Daitoryo throws the opponent over his shoulder.

    Up-Throw: Daitoryo throws his opponent directly over his head and smacks him with the blue ribbon. (Reference to the blue ribbons)

    Down Throw: Daitoryo releases his opponent and slaps them into the ground with the poetry ribbon. (Reference to the red poetry ribbons)

    Final Smash: Summons Chinese Phoenix which attacks the entire stage with fire. The stage’s background becomes red with a completely white circle as the moon as this is happening. (Reference to the August and December Bright cards)
     
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  15. Spud125

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    dont hesitate on adding me
     
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  16. Pacack

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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    You have been added :)
     
  17. DeKu Skrub

    DeKu Skrub
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    This sounds ****ing awesome. What if he could be like Bayo or Cloud and have the other half of his alts be Tengu? (Because I would love a Tengu in Smash, mainly for the Mr. Karate vibes)
     
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  18. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    I'd be down. Having the Tengu as a reference skin would be awesome.

    Should I add you to the list of supporters? :)

    Don't tell anyone, but I actually like the design of the Tengu a bit more than that of Daitoryo. I just think Daitoryo's more likely.
     
  19. DeKu Skrub

    DeKu Skrub
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    Smash Journeyman

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    You got me convinced. Go on ahead.
     
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  20. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    You have been added!


    ANNOUNCEMENT:
    Expect an update in the near future. I'm keeping it a little under wraps for now, but I think you'll all enjoy it.
     
    #20 Pacack, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  21. KeybladeSmasher

    KeybladeSmasher
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    Unfortunately @Pacack, and I must apologize, but can you remove me from the supporters list? I think the Hanafuda cards would work better as a trophy or item, or maybe appearing in the background of a stage or something, as opposed to a playable character.
     
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  22. DeKu Skrub

    DeKu Skrub
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    Personally, I'd love to see more weird picks in Smash
     
  23. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    You're more than welcome to that. I hope to see you around again, though.

    Your name will be removed in a moment.
     
  24. Fuzzy Pickles!

    Fuzzy Pickles!
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    Say, FUZZY PICKLES!!!

    • Moderator
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    This could be a really neat surprise character. I'll support it... but I'm also game for mostly anything.
     
    #24 Fuzzy Pickles!, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  25. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    Fair enough :laugh:

    I'll add you to the support list. :)
     
  26. Kirby Dragons

    Kirby Dragons
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    He's been in my top 10 most wanted characters ever since I learned about him. His moveset would be fun regardless of what it is, and he'd be the retro of all retros.
     
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  27. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    I will add you to the list of supporters. :)
     
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  28. Luminario

    Luminario
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    Your guess is as good as mine
    Now this is Retro. Game and Watch eat your heart out~

    I have to agree with GoldenYuiitusin as a tengu being a more suitable personification of the cards though. I get the historical significance of the Napoleon imagery and I do think that should appear (maybe even as the series logo) but a tengu not only fits the moveset you put forwards, but also the hanafuda cards imagery and aesthetic as a whole.
     
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  29. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    That's a fair enough stance, but I do think they're more likely to use the character from their more popular variant.

    Should I put you down as a supporter regardless?
     
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  30. Luminario

    Luminario
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    Go for it~ I'd certainly be very interested in how they would create such a character for Smash.
     
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  31. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    Would you guys be interested in me creating an alternate version of this thread for Tengu instead of Napoleon? I could also simply include it as an alternative in the OP.
     
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  32. smashkirby

    smashkirby
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    Could I be put on the support list for Daitōryō?
     
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  33. PsychoJosh

    PsychoJosh
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    Hmm, this one's complicated.

    Based on sheer novelty alone, this character idea is amazing. But on the other hand it's not even within six degrees of being a video game character. ROB I could understand because he was a packed-in peripheral that was meant to be used with the Nintendo Entertainment System, but this? It almost seems like a bridge too far.

    I mean, sure, this could arguably be the oldest Nintendo character, but Smash is first and foremost a celebration of video games. While I could also understand Nintendo wanting to pay tribute to itself, I think this character does undermine that "video game celebration" aspect a little bit.

    I think there's a strong case for and against this character being in the next Smash. But despite that, I have nothing against him, and I think he would definitely make an interesting addition. So put me down as a curious supporter.
     
    #33 PsychoJosh, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  34. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    You will be added momentarily!

    I would personally say that Smash Bros. is more about celebrating Nintendo than anything. Nods to Nintendo's origins as hanafuda card makers (and later a toy company) are hardly out of place in a game which celebrates the accomplishments of the company.

    Of course, with time, more and more video game icons have been added to the roster, many of whom are not owned by Nintendo; however, all of them have at least made an appearance on their consoles. Even the most far-removed character, Cloud, hails from a series and company with strong ties to the big N, particularly in the SNES era.

    Of course, it's hard to tell just how much my (or anyone's) interpretation lines up with the next Smash Bros. director, especially if it ends up being someone other than Sakurai - it's ultimately up to them what's in or out of place in the game. I'm just clarifying on my own position. :)


    In other news, I have a bit of a gift for you guys! I was recently fortunate enough to commission ameshin on deviantart for a full-body render of Daitoryo. I hope you all like it!
    [​IMG]

    If anyone would be interested in doing recolors, I have some references you can use. :)
     
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  35. PsychoJosh

    PsychoJosh
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    He's... pretty stumpy. And effeminate.

    It'd be quite bizarre if this is how he looked in the game.
     
  36. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    This is based off of portraiture of Napoleon. It's just what the character looks like.
     
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  37. Nonno Umby

    Nonno Umby
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    I could actually see him working as a card, instead of being a fully 3d model of Napoleon. This way they could also be very creative with the alt. costumes (Tengu, anyone?)
     
  38. Pacack

    Pacack
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    Why is a raven like a writing desk?

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    While possible, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The image of Napoleon is on the box containing the cards, not the cards themselves. If he were to be on anything, it would make more sense for it to be a box, imo.

    Image Reference:
    [​IMG]
     
    Nonno Umby likes this.

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